The Bitcoin Group, the American original. For over the last 10 seconds, the sharpest Satoshi's, the best Bitcoin's, the hardest cryptocurrency talk. We'd like to welcome our panelists, Dan Eve, the crypto raptor. What are the genes from the United Kingdom? Josh Shigala from Valtoro. Still muted. Oh, good day. I don't know. It's like I forgot a from Deutschland. That doesn't make any sense. Ben Arck from BTC, IOT. From the ununited kingdom. And I'm Thomas Hunt from the world crypto network, reminding you to give us a thumbs up right now, the sooner the better. Moving on to issue one, issue one, El Salvador. It hands. El Salvador achieved independence from Spain in 1821 and from the Central American Federation in 1839. A 12 year civil war which cost about 75,000 lives was brought to a close in 1992 when the government and leftist rebels signed a treaty that provided for military and political reforms. El Salvador, according to the CIA World Factbook, is beset by one of the world's highest homicide rates and pervasive criminal gangs. Naib Bukheli. Naib Bukheli. Oh, president of El Salvador, a populist has been criticized for governing in an authoritarian manner. In particular, he was denounced for sending soldiers into the legislative assembly to encourage the passage of a bill and allegedly to overthrow the legislative assembly of El Salvador. This action, his handling of endemic violence in El Salvador and his strict response to the COVID-19 pandemic, have led some academics to describe him as an autocrat or as an authoritarian. Transparency international cited El Salvador and Columbia as examples of an explosion of irregularities and corruption cases related to the handling of the pandemic in Latin America. Twenty government institutions of the Bukheli administration were under investigation by the attorney general's office until in May 2021, Bukheli led a parliamentary move to fire the attorney general and multiple Supreme Court judges of El Salvador, which has been characterized as a self coup and has sparked fears of democratic backsliding and a power grab. Naib Bukheli. Naib Bukheli. Meanwhile, back to Bitcoin, El Salvador becomes the first country to adopt Bitcoin as legal tender after passing a law, which sounds like it would be very difficult to pass in El Salvador. Lawmakers in the Central American countries, Congress voted by a super majority in favor of the new Bitcoin law. Bitcoin will officially be legal tender accepted in all shops. The government has even described a service where perhaps you could cash out your Bitcoin's or Satoshi's for dollars. The current currency of El Salvador is the US dollar. They are now adding Bitcoin as an additional option of legal tender. They also want to use electricity generated from volcanoes to mine Bitcoin. But that's neither here nor there. Dan Eave, the crypto raptor. El Salvador becomes the first country to accept Bitcoin as legal tender. Is this good for Bitcoin? Is this good for El Salvador? Well, I was really pumped until you read out the Wiki notes. And now, like, all say so. He's obviously, he's pushed it through, you know, nudged it through a bit. But at the end of the day, there may be all of the who are around about the guy himself and about the coupon stuff. But the fact is that, you know, it's a perfect kind of almost test bed with 70% not the inhabitants not being integrated into financial services. It's kind of a really good example or an example, a test run of how a country could integrate Bitcoin. The fact is that there's, you know, no cap gains is they've said in the articles of law. People think they also said that you, you must accept Bitcoin unless you don't have the technology to do so. So I suppose it could be games because people could say, I don't have a computer to accept it, even if they did or something like that. I don't know if they were kind of really that much gains Bitcoin. But ultimately, I think the fact that it's now foreign exchange, it's now considered foreign exchange. The fact that there's no capital gains, that hopefully that, you know, that happens in the rest of the world as well and it's not considered as like, you know, goods. It's considered for its and therefore, you know, there's no cap gains on it. I think that's a kind of a good way of going around it because the idea of Bitcoin was a currency initially. And this is following that that kind of, you know, the path of Bitcoin as a currency. I think it's also called about doing the volcano. So they've obviously caught on to the fact that the, you know, the Volcano, there's a lot of talk about Bitcoin not being environmentally friendly. So having volcanoes produce mining, mining electricity, or electricity for mining, I think it's good. But yeah, I think it sounds cool. Like the fact that Jack Moul is obviously out there with Strike, you know, trying to set up the infrastructure. And that was kind of really, really cool to read, right? You know, it's not like, it's not like El Salvador wants to set up. It doesn't have its own currencies using the US dollar. And it's going to set up a new currency and it's not like, you know, JP Morgan's setting up. It's, it's Jack Moul is in strike. I think that's the kind of cool takeaway is that the technology now supersedes the existing infrastructure that everyone's, you know, grown to love because everyone loves banking in banking in the traditional financial institutions. So yeah, maybe hopefully it goes well because this could really pave the way for a roll out for the rest of the world. But we'll see. If I forgot to mention in the intro that Jack Moulers of Strike, friend of the show, was largely behind the initiative giving an incredible announcement of it at the Bitcoin 2021 conference. Congratulations, Jack. A positive thing, regardless of anything critical we might say of El Salvador. Josh Chagalla, your thoughts and your chance to say something critical about El Salvador. But you're muted today. Somehow I'm just forgetting the mute button today. Now it's my turn to forget the mute button. Now look, no taxes on BTC. That's pretty good. Tax hell shit for any sort of shit coins and foreign income. So that's kind of shitty because, you know, what's with the taxes. It's one of the most dangerous places in the world. So that's kind of a no go. Residency for three Bitcoin. Yeah, the resident, I mean, it's a bit steep. It's a bit steep. Bunch of guys with power drills ready to extract your seeds upon arrival. You know, that's that's always a bit dangerous. Let's have a look at Paraguay. A lovely beach. But for that, you get no tax on Bitcoin, shit coins or foreign income. Pretty cool. Your residency for 0.1737 BTC. I don't know where they got that number from. That's a pretty fun number though. It's easy to get drivers license are included and low crime and high quality of life. So yeah, you know, you make the choice. What do you want? Paraguay. But yeah, look, it's funny because a lot of people got into Bitcoin early. The early Bitcoin was very ethical, he minded all about the moral reason for holding it. A lot of it was technical as well. A lot of people were very technical and obsessed with technology. But since you can really see the moon boys and girls coming in and they just want moon, whatever. So like full on fierce dictator takes it. Yeah, moon. Oh, Elon's pumping up moon. Elon's hating it. Kill him. Like, you know, it's a total like just all morals get thrown out the window. And this is unfortunate. It's unfortunate. But the fact of the matter is Bitcoin is the honey badger. It doesn't give a shit what you are. I don't think countries need to take Bitcoin like anyone in that country could take Bitcoin. The fact is that they make it tax free and they sort of put a gun to your head saying, you have to take this if you can. But that's also doesn't sit right with me. Why don't you have to take anything? It's a trade should be a voluntary action between two people and you have a medium of exchange that sits in the middle. Look, I'm as happy as the next guy that there's news of more adoption. But I don't think we need to go screaming through the street saying this is the best thing ever. Quite frankly, it sounds like a douche. I think Josh makes a good point that Bitcoin itself doesn't care. Bitcoin didn't change when this got notified. Bitcoin didn't change anything about the things it did. It just kept being Bitcoin and that yes, much like the Wizard of Oz, they already had the power to do this. They were already doing this. It's good to have some tax breaks and some encouragement. I agree with Josh. It's important to see that gun pointed at people and to see that even if we're on the other side of that gun, whereas like except Bitcoin, which is something we like, it's still not good to be using that gun. To follow up on what Dan said, volcano power is awesome, but it's also exactly what a James Bond villain who had taken over a country would say. Ben Arck, your thoughts on El Salvador. A few days later, Trump tweeted out that Bitcoin is an attack on the US dollar, which is true. The US dollar is hedging me and power, which it wields in South America has been disastrous. It caused a lot of pain and suffering and people have been trying to get past sanctions and US control for quite a while. I was surprised that an anti-democratic, mostly anti-democratic darling of the US near liberal types was the one to adopt it because you always had a good relationship with Trump and that clan. But he's been the one to push it in El Salvador. Maybe Jack Malas is incredibly good salesperson. I'm quite excited about it. A lot of the stuff I build has been off the back of real-world use of Bitcoin in a bar or Bitcoin in a cafe and it helps inform your design decisions and what you're going to make and how you're going to make it, rather than just all of us building tools for this science fictional, maybe it might be used one day in the real-world scenario. It's really nice to have the software and hardware used out in the wild so you get that real-world use case. There's going to be plenty of that and El Salvador itself is going to attract a lot of fintech companies because they'll now have favorable infrastructure laws for Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies. I know that Striker is going to put one of their headquarters there. Coole himself, he's a populist leader but he does have a popular vote. I think it's 90% and since 2018 he's managed to have the murder in El Salvador. There's always a problem with dictators. If you get a good dictator, then yes, they can make a lot of impactful decisions and they might be for what looks like the better of the country. But as they do that democratic backsliding, you can find yourself in a very sticky position a little bit later on down the road when they go nuts. They're going to be too much cocaine and start running around the landscape with the machine gun which has happened in some countries around the world. Hopefully that won't happen. Hopefully it will just attract a lot of investment and people using Bitcoin in the real world. It will also erode the US dollars power over South America and other other South American countries will follow suit. Josh said power of guay seems to be very receptive to Bitcoin. I think they've all got the one common enemy in South America and that is the US dollar so to throw in it and attack it. Then you're supposed to say spoiler alert before you ruin the ending of the movie Scarface. And I agree with Ben. The enemy of my enemy is my friend at least for now. This is a positive development for Bitcoin regardless of the country that it may be. I do hope that it's a larger and more developed country next time. Just like to ask everyone to give it a thumbs up. We've got about 42 people watching now and 11 people have hit the thumbs up button so if we can get that button up we can get more viewers and we can get more chat and everything will just start happening. Moving on to the exit question and of course this has to do with the International Monetary Fund. Previously El Salvador had been taking loans from the IMF now that everyone has suddenly declared them a Bitcoin nation assuming they're now going to hold part of their treasury in Bitcoin. Maybe even see some gains like Tesla saw. Therefore Max Kaiser according to the Twitter internet someone told me has come up with the idea to buy El Salvador out of their $1 billion loan from the IMF. Obviously they're not looking for me for the funding but somewhere out there I guess there's a Bitcoin or an Ethereum or a person out there that wants to buy them out of their loan. Dan Eve what do you think about this idea of Bitcoin or some kind of collection of coins buying off El Salvador's $1 billion IMF loan. Well definitely turn heads that's for sure. I think that I raised the point about sanctions but then the impact of sanctions on the country just for accepting Bitcoin would probably be a bit heavy handed. It's kind of a good thing that it would happen under the radar. It's like how Bitcoin started out which is that not many people believed in versus the existing financial system. If it wasn't for coming from the ground up from individuals slowly turning and understanding Bitcoin learning about it and then implementing and using it in their own day to day lives it wouldn't be this multi-headed ninja snake that you can't cut the head off because it's you whack a mole, you can't do it. With El Salvador leading the way any sanctions would be too heavy handed and therefore it will be allowed to continue and it will become a global experiment. The IMF will be looking closely at El Salvador and how it's been Bitcoin's being rolled out there and the impact. To not just the obviously they'll be looking more to the impact of the government which will probably be very much enriched and that's what will make the dollar symbols roll in their eyes rather than seeing the impacts on the people and the positive impacts on the people and that bringing more of those 70% out of the financial system online. What a terrible surprise when the country learns how many Bitcoin can be carried out within a single suitcase. Josh Shagala, should we buy El Salvador out of their IMF loan? Hell no. Why would you, they aren't printed money out of nowhere, gave it to El Salvador. If they're stupid enough to accept that crap then like why are you really going to trade in this rare asset? That's similar things happen in Greece where the European Central Bank said oh yeah we'll help you out Greece will help you out. All you have to do is give us that a cropless in that Ireland and they say you know like and then literally go back, print out fake crap you know or just type it in and expect you to hand over real assets. This is the same sort of thing. Why would you hand over real rare assets like Bitcoin so you can bail out some idiot country? I mean not country, the people are obviously wonderful but the I always get myself in trouble. They're going to take that snippet and go look at him. What a racist. No, wonderful people of El Salvador. WCN clips on Google at WCN Clips for more exciting clips. Josh Josh insulting every single country on the planet one by one. No, look I mean I'm fantastic that you're accepting BBC and all but you know what you just say we're not going to pay back your nonsense fake money. That's what they do. That's what they do. Yeah they'll come under sanction and they'll get all sorts of defaults and troubles but if they're accepting Bitcoin then that doesn't matter anymore. This is the paradigm shift that will happen. Similar things happening around the world. We recently talked someone in I don't know if I should say but another country is looking at the similar thing to get away from a lot of debt brought in by China. We're seeing the next step, the first step in 2017 was the whole normie influx, the normal people getting in. How cool is that? The first currency where the bottom up first came in. Then this pump has been all the institutions coming in and the next pump will be the countries. El Salvador is just a bit early. I want to follow Josh on this one because I also don't think that we should pay off the loan. Not really for the Salvadoran people which I'm sure are great but just for this guy again. It's not working. Naib Bukheli. For Naib Bukheli it seemed like it would be a billion dollar gift to a powerful dictator. This is another one of these just like the people wanting to visit El Salvador, the people wanting to move there. These over excited. It's called the mooner bit coiners. They just love new things. They love new flashy things like the cat with a laser and they're just excited. I like that and I like the excitement. I don't want to be down on it. We just have to watch out when the laser goes to the theater and give it a billion dollars. You calling Adam Bukheli, you know, Blockstreamer, Mooner. He likes dick with two. I thought that was very interesting that they're planning on setting up a headquarters in El Salvador because obviously you have Bitcoin, you have Lightning Network and all the infrastructure which that built, you know, and other bits of course and things like it and all the infrastructure that comes with. But then inevitably you're going to run to the issue of the fact that Bitcoin is unstable. So what do you do? Well, you need a stable for your currency. So how are you going to get your stable for your currency? You get Blockstream to make your stable for your currency and that's why they are moving there. So I'm really looking forward to that happening because I've mentioned that a few times and I think it would be absolutely fantastic and to have a much more honest, soft currency and less corruptible soft currency, maybe federated geographically between regions and democratic, democratically controlled. I'm interested to see that. Oh, some sort of stable coin solution because they will need that. Like yes, you know, they can use Bitcoin instead of the dollar. But they will run into lots of issues when Bitcoin halves in price, doubles in price, halves in price. They already started referring it to the article. They're like, items will have to be priced in Bitcoin. And I was like, oh my God, you're going to have to erase that 12 times. Yeah, exactly. Well, this is what this is where you're going to have, you know, the Al Salvador dollar, but it was going to be a side chain stable coin, a token built on Bitcoin using all of the Bitcoin's security functions. You're going to have all those soft currency functions as well. And it's going to be now having two ideas in my brain at the same time. If it's a small coin, but it's built on Bitcoin, how can I like it, Ben? It's hurting my maximumism. Uh, I mean, you know, it's just basically, you know, liquid, isn't it? You know, a liquid token, which you can control the through path, print more, remove some the problem, the problem with that scenario that I see is it's a slippery slope because blockchain tokens are different than, let's say, I don't know, we chat tokens in that there are, um, they, when you start programming them, that's when it starts to get sketchy. So you just, the government just starts turning them off when it's centralized and on too much control over this. This, this, this is the point is you don't, you don't let it centralize. That's why you have it fed us why liquid tokens are, you know, exchanges use them all the time is because it's federated in a way which makes it decentralized enough for what you're using it for. Like, yes, put all of your savings in Bitcoin, but you can use this stable thing and it's safe to use for data data transactions and your daily finances. It's probably, you know, it's a much better version of a state currency that I think if it's a structure of El Salvador is that these stable coins, they fit into suitcase technology as well. They fit into pockets. They fit into notebooks. They fit into cat gifts. Like everyone said that cheap marketplace was a great place and they had fantastic customer service right up until the weekend when they exit scanned. Well, potentially with a stable coin fear, you could, you could, uh, citizens could demand that the public, you know, authorities which are, which are public sector services have to give up their read keys. So you can read exactly where funds are going and you can chart where funds are going. That's something which they could hold their government's accounting because the technology exists. It's just a much better version of, you know, think about the dollar. I mean, that's just what that's backed by the violence of the US, um, imperialism or, or, you know, any other currency, any other fairy currency is just a much better version of that, which doesn't rely on violence, it relies on clever, you know, decentralized federated network. Of course, if we were using a centralized stable coin where the government controlled it, maybe they could turn off the coins if they were stolen or they could turn them off if they were used by rebels. And pretty soon you can't even buy a big Mac. Listen through. All right. So we didn't get an answer from Ben. Are you going to buy back their loan? I don't think you can. Oh, no, no, I'm not. I'm not going to. It's an absolute awful idea to give it towards like, you know, World A, I don't know some charity. Giving. I also think that we should put a middleman in there. Maybe we can collect the billion dollars before we give it to them. And then we could accidentally lose the billion dollars. I want to put that in as an option. Like that's a great plan. You know, we could make more money by making a musical that fails than making a musical that succeeds. No, you could do it the same as the CIA did it with the petroleum pipeline. You just sort of pay it back to the IMF, but take it just before they get it and say, yeah, we, we, we paid you, you dropped the debt already. That's the things with bookies is even after they break your legs, you still have to pay. All right, moving on to issue two Bitcoin mining council debuts as backlash increases. I'm sorry, that was energy backlash. I thought this article was going to be about a backlash against a centralized institution attempting to control and monitor Bitcoin mining pretty much everyone's worst nightmare. But instead, it's a lot of Tory article celebrating Michael sailor from micro strategies who's created the Bitcoin mining council, which is sure to solve all problems with Bitcoin and energy use. As we know, Senator Elizabeth Warren from Massachusetts called Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies and environmental disaster, seeing it only in the short term and only using the multiplication, not referencing the galaxy digital report where it said that gold market uses twice as much, the banking market uses twice as much and always on devices such as play stations and other devices use seven times as much energy as Bitcoin. That's seven times whatever country they recently referred it to. So seven Argentina's or seven Ireland's, meanwhile, the Bitcoin mining council is here to solve all of the problems. Josh Tagala, the new people are here. They've created a centralized institution. Will they solve all of the problems of Bitcoin mining? Of course they won't. No, they will. They won't. I don't know. They'll do their best. Great. I love how these people come out of the woodworks, probably Michael sailor, trying to protect his investment. The thing is a lot of this is about price. A lot of this fear is about, you've got to keep the price up and really technologically we've got to get more people using things like the lightning network. That's what you do. That's what you do. Because no one really cares at the end of the day about the other stuff, apart from news headlines, they care. But people don't. They want to get money. A to B. They want to protect their wealth. They want to protect their family. And yeah, lightning network, that needs adoption. So we should have more focus on, hey, let's get lightning network adoption. Maybe we can get Michael sailor to try out the lightning network, give it a try. And as the article says, most of this is about Elon Musk. Elon Musk is not involved in the Bitcoin mining council, despite saying it was a good idea. And Elon Musk, of course, warned everyone after Tesla accepted Bitcoin, and then stopped accepting Bitcoin a few weeks later as if something had changed. If only Elon had warned us about little green men from Mars mining Bitcoin, perhaps we would have built an intergalactic firewall to protect ourselves. Instead, we've built a mining council to protect Bitcoin mining from Elon Musk. We'll see if it has any effect. Josh, did you have more on that? Yeah, I mean, I find it really fascinating. The more I thought about the whole Elon thing, you know, his cars take all this electricity. I went and plugged my super charger into my car. There's like, it's like the whole thing behind because they've got like these generators. I don't know if they're generators or if they're whatever. You can't speak out about the environmental issues of Tesla. They'll cut off your internet connection. Ben, Ark, your thoughts on Bitcoin mining council. Yeah, these electric cars, I agree with Josh. They're not the answer. Liquid hydrogen or something like liquid hydrogen is probably the answer. Liquid hydrogen cars are more efficient. And what's like regular normal petrol, you can fill the car up as quick. And as long as you can just, you know, capture the energy in a clean way using renewables. It's much greener than mining this lithium out the ground and building all these batteries. And then a while Elon Musk gets this past card because he's, you know, sending people into space, sending tourists into space, rich people who've literally run out of things to do with their extreme wealth. The only thing they can now do is, you know, have be a tourist in space, which by the way has an absolutely gigantic carbon footprint. And I mean, you know, okay, your, you know, your, your, your. What's the worst of words? You're expanding on on space exploration. You're developing space exploration. But at that same time, the reason you get so many government subsidies is because that same technology can be used for rockets and the military. So yeah, he's for whatever Elon Musk's a decade. I don't mind this mining council thing. I don't really see what the fuss is about that they're not, you know, they can have a council. They can, they can be held to account. We can lobby miners that their real world and points. They're not cypher punks. You know, the business no one knows any none of us know any miners. We have a very little to do with the mining community. They're just contractors. They're just stokes. We hire to secure the network. And if they can be lobby to move towards more renewables by a gazillionaire like Michael Sayler, then whatever it's fine. There's not much damage they can actually do to the network because the users told them to account on the software, which they want to, you know, use to validate the transactions. So it's not it's not nothing to be worried about as much as Bitcoin as our worrying about it. I think with the, you know, previously when we had closed or meetings with all the business leaders and the miners with the two ex agreement thing. That was kind of a different time and it very much felt like they could have an impact on Bitcoin. But I don't think a bunch of miners can being lobbied to be more green. We still probably try and wiggle out of because it's not, you know, doesn't make any financial sense to them. Currently, but I said before on the show, you know, Bitcoin does have a high carbon footprint. And as Josh said, absolutely perfectly. Use lightning network thousands potentially millions of times more efficient the Bitcoin. Don't use this amazing technology for doing your silly little transactions. Use it for your big important transactions and then use. You know, lightning network for the other stuff. And until we get renewables, I'd like to see more offsetting platforms available for people who are interested in, you know. So say Tesla, for example, if they've got an issue with the carbon footprint of a Bitcoin transaction and on showing Bitcoin transaction because obviously these Tesla is quite expensive. And for a little bit extra, they could offset that carbon footprint for like a decade. And it's not that much more, you know, talking maybe 100 bucks, couple of hundred bucks. So and it's nothing that's nothing on top of the price of a Tesla. That so, yeah, hopefully more offsetting options more people using lightning network and carry on Michael sailor lobby those dirty or a bull thuggish miners. We can trust the businessmen and the gang of thugs. They won't form a cartel. Everything will be fine. Dan Eve, your thoughts on the Bitcoin mining council. I can't I do. I think overall I'm actually quite positive about it because I think you know, Ben pointed out that these are businesses real businesses that can be lobbied themselves and have. And so the idea that the collusion is going to be there. And it's going to bring it kind of does bring a bit of centralization in terms of thoughts, maybe because you've got the centralized, you know, these. The primary miners. So I think the first way discussing ideas and they may kind of be back at you know, under the table stuff happening. But I don't think it's kind of I don't think it's that destructive. And if anything, although, you know, this they know that their businesses will be in jeopardy if they want if the environmental attack happens as it's continues to happen. And then I just produce more studies and analysis and and kind of, you know, virtue signal slash actually show how much of the energy is coming from. From more green, you know, green areas and renewables. And I think also that like the, I don't know, the power of like the power production of say, for example, if you have, if you're comparing it to cars as often they do, I think in that article they did. And then for example, we'll. Cars produce, you know, X amount of CO2, but they're each individual car is it, you know, it's not one. One engine that does thousands of cars like you have a factory that does, you know, thousands of kilowatts of intellectual weather, megawatts of electricity, hundreds of billions trillions. And the efficiencies of the scale of producing power are different, you know, in the output of the, the actual, the output of emissions are different when you're considering say just a bunch of cars to a factory that produces it and how it processes the output. But you could jump on the bandwagon and say well, why not allow Bitcoin mining, but to if it's from non-renewable, say if you're a country to, to charge an additional tax. So you're still kind of you're open to it, but it's the carbon credits thing right. If you're, if you're allowing Bill Gates to fly on a private jet everywhere, but just pay money to pump plants and trees like he's still pumping how shitload of like you know, just environmentally bad materials into the atmosphere and fume its all streams and like Tesla is as well by taking people to space for fun. But the funny thing about say like, you know, you know, Liz, Elizabeth Warren sort of bringing up she's a multimillionaire or anything that a multimillionaire does is usually it way in excess of a normal human being in terms of, you know, you don't just have a stake that's a cow that's like with loads of other cows. And it's like cow in its own field like it's been you know, I was going to say massaged in a, I'm not going to go down that route, but you know, they take a lot of care over this additional cow, this one cow, you go to a restaurant, you're sent miles apart from people instead of you have bigger amounts of land. So if you're going to, if you're going to, you know, attack things about economies like don't have kids don't have more than one car watering a lawn spare room in the house more than what I wrote a list I've been prepared. And only because someone said like you wanted your lawn and I was like yeah, but I only have one car in the house and they were like, I was like, you look like what, you know, there's all these other reasons what about having more than one type of item of clothes have one pair of shoes because anything more wasteful. And don't give me that crap about being wasteful because you're being wasteful we're having more than one pair of shoes more than one type of accessory throwing away food only flushing the toilet after a dump. Why not it was a load of if you're just if you're not going to have a massive stanch around why not just save it save only to a flush after a dump, otherwise you're just wasting electricity might as well be mining Bitcoin. What about just not using everything until it's been thrown out we live in a throw away culture and there's plenty of that sort of stuff going around. But yeah, you can there's to the answer, you can talk about waste and efficiency and the usages of whatever. But you know, go back to the console the console argument that it uses you know Bitcoin mining uses the same amount of consoles in a year, for example. Go and tell the load of like all the people that play consoles that they're entertainment that their thing that they like and believe it is going to be taken away because it's excessive you don't need it like it's because you know finances and need like game consoles aren't need let's be honest is entertainment is and it's a luxury to life. You could go to the end degree cutting people's liberties down and saying what they should and shouldn't do. But ultimately yeah, don't don't flush unless you've had a dump. First they'll come for your game consoles then they'll come for your guns and also what Dan said there's that we've we've moved it we moved it out of the environment into another environment yes yes we've moved it out of the environment into another environment. All right moving on did you know the world crypto network has its own clips channel at WCN clips on YouTube and Google and all the places that you search for videos subscribe to WCN clips today and get the shows in shorter format your chance to be one of the first 50 subscribers Google WCN clips today. Issue 3 US inflation rate hits biggest since 2008 outlining the case for Bitcoin there is an infinite amount of cash at the Federal Reserve. The consumer price index a measure of the price of consumer goods and services has increased by an annual rate of 5% last month hitting its highest marks since August of 2008 according to the US Bureau of Labor statistics as money printing. There is an infinite amount of cash at the Federal Reserve and Federal economic stimulus measures continue in the wake of the COVID-19 pandemic many fear that inflation could lead to out of control prices and additional problems for the US government and the economy. Ben Ark is inflation on the way should we be afraid or is this again good for Bitcoin. No you should be worried. No the US can inflate a lot more. I mean they really want to increase their deficit and then just not pay it back as the best way to handle the inflation but if they don't want to do that then they can just increase interest rates and then banks will stop lending. They will be less money printed and then inflation will decrease. These governments are trying to control their fear of currencies. It is a balancing act between inflation and interest rate and they are fairly efficient at it. They could be out of the soft currencies, have a lot of useful functions. They can just make more of it for example but more often than not that gets corrupted and it can be applied poorly. Ultimately if you have some crazy dictator then a sovereign currency producer can have run away in hyperinflation. I wouldn't worry for the US star I would worry for maybe the euro because you got a whole bunch of countries who on sovereign currency producers so they can't just create or as much money as they need to get themselves out of an economic crisis. They are relying upon doing it through the euro which is what we saw inside personal problems they had for example. You don't need to be worried. A bunch of bitcoin is sat waiting for hyperinflation to take hold so hyperbiconization will happen. I think it is mostly a waste of effort. We should just build better money infrastructure and make a money which works better and more natively on the internet and then people will just use it. I wouldn't expect the dollar to have hyperinflation anytime soon unless they get a complete unicycle power and they re-electrum maybe and I don't know they dissolve the senate and whatever you'd need to do in order to make an unstable country. Doing it your way sounds like too much work. I'd rather just wait for the other system to fail and then assume that it would because then I don't have to do anything. Dan Eva is gone. Let's go to Josh Shegala your thoughts on inflation. The thing is yes in a vacuum then is correct. You can just sort of stop you know you can lift interest rates and that means the dollar gains value as people start to pay off their loans and want to buy it off the buy out of the free market and remove and that causes more demand. The thing that the American dollar had for a long time is that other places would start to use the US dollars especially South America as we can see as we talked about earlier. And this use case is kind of interesting where you start to spread a fear currency that is your sovereign currency but you start to spread it to countries that have just that just have terrible. It looks like Dan Eva is back Josh Shegala is frozen or perhaps I'm frozen. Dan your thoughts on inflation and Bitcoin. Oh inflation inflation if I was to give you an example see the problem is what everyone's raven about the volatility of Bitcoin. Yeah they kind of just swings well in very enough it does but you know lots of things swing. But I'm not going to go down that route swinging is fine if you're you know for a couple that just want to open up avenues anyway there are also other things to worry about inflation in general like a gallon of milk here you know give you two examples to drinking examples so 36 cents in 1913. In in in 2013 $3.53 and a cup of coffee 1970 25 cents 2021 to 99. So that is that's the cost of having an infinite infinite amount of money in your reserves around cash with the Federal Reserve. And infinite amount can we just hear that again because I love it. There is an infinite amount of cash that the Federal Reserve. Exactly and having an infinite amount of infinite amount of anything right now off the top of your head goats just think about any problems are like anything love in the amount of love there's too much like they probably could be too much love but just anything you can think of an infinite amount of it is going to be bad. But ultimately fractional reserve lending all the sorts of stuff the inflation of printing money that's what's going to be the problem and is the problem and people should be focusing on not the idea that that you know that the Bitcoin fluctuates a bit because other stuff fluctuates a bit like this there's currencies that can drop 15 20% overnight because of a random a random you know random events so obviously the very you know there's blacks one events but I thought when you were talking about bailouts I was thinking what happened like if if the US keeps on printing money and then eventually they need a bailout like who are they going to go to and I was thinking right it's going to be every iPhone user who Google stuff and buys things from Amazon they'll be like we need your donations we need your money now otherwise we're not going to be tridling dollar companies anymore. But inflation is is bad like just going and watch any any documentary or like mini documentary on inflation you're not going to find positive things it's not like one where there's two sides of the fence where you can argue you know on both sides it you know can argue to the cars come home about that. Yeah but that don't make sense. No they don't. What I was just saying before I just took before broke up was that there's there's a whole lot of technical is happening so you have what's called the repo market which basically the fed buying stocks or borrowing instantly giving cash and liquidity to the stock market when it's needed and and there's a whole bunch of really intricate interwine intertwining mechanisms currently working in the in the modern economic system that you can't just lower interest rates or lift them you can't just lift them in fact they have to go lower because they've pumped the the stock market so high that if they if they stop bringing this sort of liquidity into the markets the stock market could see a massive crash and absolutely distressed crash and so what will happen actually is there we will go into negative interest rates and when you see negative interest rates happening you'll get more and more inflation and it becomes a downward spiral because they have to chase their tail and especially if you're on a first term president they want to keep going and president they want to keep their next term so they're going to keep promises going keep new schools keep pumping new money more money it becomes this really like dog chasing a tail sort of thing and and I don't see with with all these South American countries maybe heading in the same way as I'll servo where they start to see there's other options than just the US dollar that also dries up the use case of all this excess cash having places to go for all these countries that actually use the US dollar as a proxy so there's I I really feel that inflation is on its way and it's heading quicker and quicker and the hyperinflation that happen around the world every single one of them happens after a stimulus and that stimulus every single time comes after bad policy a natural disaster or or corruption so right now we've had a global natural disaster or maybe it's a non-natural disaster and it was created most likely but whatever it is it's a it's a disaster and they're stimulating their way out of it so and post stimulation what happens post simulation you have a cigarette you remind a lost josh's connection there as as Jay Z was saying Dan we had so many problems and as Jay Z once said we have 99 problems but bitcoin 8.1 so and you're asking how the government will be funded in the future it says here that the government will be funded like Wikipedia every time there'll be a government action they'll have a little banner across the top do you like what's going on here please donate to fund the US government and again this is a total mind shift for everyone involved they would much prefer to say we need bombers print the money for bombers say we need disaster relief print the money for disaster relief having to go out there and earn the money or actually have it before you spend it the total concept that there's real world examples such as you know the the Japanese government bonds for the wood or we don't make a trade so that for decades traders have been trading against the Japanese government bonds and that they would default on the debts and they'll have hyper inflationally several things will happen to their economy and it just hasn't happened because they just take interest rates lower they go below zero sometimes and then they just create bigger deficits this is the argument of all those MM tears so and in fact it's where a lot of these MM tears made their money was was on the other side of those trades the problem like Josh said with these currencies is when they do things like fiddle the box so they pump the stock prices to make everything look economically fine that's an issue if you're printing money to create the economic fiscal stimulation which is anger boost economy that's you know that's a good thing and you can say they came to near some hasn't worked but you know we could have had multiple great depressions since the last great depression and we haven't because governments have been in the position where if they have a stock market a market crash rather than sit back and say sorry peeps we can't do anything you have to let your children starve they're able to create fiscal stimulus or able to do quantities and all these other tools usually badly of course because they're centralized decisions but without the without that ability that those functions of soft currency we could have spiraled into into into horrible great questions and then probably more wars you know canes canes primary motivator was to stop the prevent the outbreak of another war because you've been through two wars and it's the treasure of the UK during the the first world war and wrote a book against the economic reparations against the Germans in fact and how it would cause a second world war which it then went undid so you know he would be happy to know that there's been lots of proxy wars and those wars have been caused by largely us a janami and people trying to keep their currencies as well reserve currencies but generally there hasn't been another world war since the great wars the great wars the beginning of the 20th century so there is a good argument the canesism has what in fact worked but it needs to be done more effectively the post what the post canesians would maybe argue but I think it's just unreasonable to expect that a government when their country spirals out of control into a great depression and a horrific stock market crash to turn around to everybody and say look bear with this because we'll have better more efficient markets and tougher companies at the end of it so it's not going to happen like there'd be too much pressure on them to dig them out of that whole and that's why we stuck with these things let's just make them better let's make these soft currencies better these fear currencies and less corruptible corrupt corrupt resistant the thing is then like the great depression yeah we haven't had other great depressions but we will have the greatest depression by far like the they all they've done is kick the can down the road and the snowballs got bigger the cans got bigger and when it does hit it's going to really mess up things especially that Europe is printing Australia is printing Asia is printing we're all trying to keep up with America so the next great depression isn't just going to be America it's going to be a global massive destruction of well maybe not and I hope you're wrong I mean I heard from the wrong clue I see troughs I see troughs and peaks boom and bust which is part of the capitalist mode of production and you buffer those peaks and troughs by taking surplus value which would generate during boom years and then recycling it through recycling mechanisms like once to be using so so there's also been no great depression since Morris he started writing songs just a fact let's just want to predict the price yeah yeah yeah that's the best part everyone's like they're inflation when will you die do you remember that what about Margaret Sasha it's brilliant it's just him going when will you die when will you die it's not a fan of that here this is also a good time for everyone to give us a thumbs up button we have about 61 people watching now and 28 people have liked us so thank you so much for your support you can also like later on it's still important to push that thumbs up button but you're competing against the predictor of predictor the prognosticator of prognosticators the magic bitcoin eight ball Dan Eve will the price of bitcoin be higher this time next week inflation or not okay so I just go about how last week's prediction because I didn't check on it I think for the fun I was wrong by about a hundred dollars come on that's pretty spot on if I did like the seven day I'm about a hundred dollars off now I said it would go up and it went down a hundred dollars and so I'm gonna say I'm gonna say up I think we're now we've had the little mini the mini the mini the mini the mini the mini the mini extended dip and we're it's gonna go like gonna gonna hit all the prophecies as as foretold in the plan B uh are gonna go to the to the hundreds the hundreds of keys and so next week is gonna be up but don't bet your house on it and this is not financial advice I always end up buying the dip when I was supposed to be hardling or hardling when I was supposed to be buying the dip then arc the price of bitcoin this time next week higher or lower higher higher higher higher we're at low um we're going higher we're where we're are we two engine or we aiming for two engine 40 grand that's what we're aiming for dollars um or maybe they'll just inflate it and and we'll get there anyway and then inflate the dollar and we'll get 240 grand if you say it three times it must be true and there's always been two ways to read that classic bitcoin meme with Morpheus by the time you're ready uh you won't need to spend it because one of those is you could use bitcoin the other was what Ben saying where it's like yeah dollars really won't be worth anything everyone will be a millionaire even garbage men uh Josh Shigala higher or lower um I you know the funny thing is here crypto player in the chat says too many negative news I choose lower well you know the thing is I don't know where you're reading your news from man I'm seeing a lot of positive news I really am I come to the reading a lot of positive news everywhere and this is the thing with echo chambers if you're in certain regions of the internet you might get one opinion that's like an only negative stuff if you're somewhere else you see positive stuff you're living in the same reality but getting total different uh signals um I choose higher for next week but as Josh said there's only one opinion that matters the bitcoin predictor ball here we are will the price of bitcoin be higher this time next week most likely most likely from the ball so there it is not financial advice it's just a predictor ball can we get someone in the chat to uh basically put it back through the episodes and chart the big coin procrastinators procrastinators oh you know it's going to be heartbreaking it's going to be like if you had invested with the ball you would have made 20,000 percent or something insane so go do the work moving on to issue four the Netherlands must ban bitcoin says Dutch bureaucrat yes people are getting more excited about bitcoin some people want to adopt it some people want to form their own mining council other people want to ban it completely and why why does the head of the Netherlands bureau for economic policy analysis Peter Hossi comp why does he want to ban crypto currencies immediately like right now you would expect it to be the environmental argument but instead he's going with the Ponzi scheme saying that he believes a cryptocurrency crash is inevitable so the Netherlands should prompt act promptly to avoid any potential damage for investors and governments alike the last person to act is the loser the Netherlands was bat now ban bitcoin Josh Shagalla is he correct should the Netherlands ban bitcoin immediately not because of environmentalism or competition with central bank currencies not because it takes away governments of power to fiat and print money but because a crash is inevitable i.e. it's a Ponzi scheme well first of all you're reading the same news as crypto player obviously because this is pretty nag it's pretty down on me but what what a kind of a ridiculous thing is that because there will be a crash into inevitable of course it's inevitable there's always booms and busts in this thing it's in a price discovery phase and it's got to find a right price no one knows what this thing is worth yet it'll go up or down but the fact of the matter is anybody that's held bitcoin longer than i think it's like probably i don't know six weeks when was the last when was the longer than if you bought it after coin basis when i went public then you've you're probably still in the red but anyone else in the entire history unless you sold it at the you know weird times if you just held you're in the green by a lot inevitable i don't think you know what that word means dan eave is it inevitable is it crashing soon i'm gonna i'm gonna just switch things around and i'm gonna say it's never to bubble because everyone always likes to say that bitcoin is a bubble um now i i okay i don't think it's i don't think it's crashing wait wait we on the Dutch article so i got carried away right message uh the Dutch say that it's gonna crash and we should ban it immediately it's the only same thing we can do oh yeah well if if if if turkey and china say they're banning it because they he was he the Dutch guy gave the examples it was like well turkey and china banned it well but definitely that's just just ban it and what was called was that ban failed in 2018 so someone actually did propose it and it was it was rallied against i'd like to think that it bitcoin has a stronger position now than it didn't 2018 you know 2018 was on the on the come down of the the near 20kp in 2017 there was probably a lot of fun about it then and let's face it the infrastructure wasn't anywhere near as uh integrated and widespread as it is now you didn't have a lightning um so you know countering that part of the environmentalist argument so i'd say the case is much better for bitcoin now that it wasn't 2018 and it is always it always gets better because when there's a bear market people keep building that's the the good thing is the people have faith like George Michael and they're gonna have faith so they keep a building good dink good dink good dink keep it building good dink dink lightning is one of the things that came up so if as long as people continue building i think that bitcoin's got a much stronger case to stay around especially with or else alvin or although not especially with alcian or now that you've read the wikipedia too because i thought it was all positive and i read that and i was like i was just face pumping you're like oh no he did what a coup a coup but no i think it you know the end of the day um fraud criminal uses and financial instability um is is rife in every other country in terms of you know inflation is financial instability but a longer scale um and that's why you know i think maybe bitcoin's a lot more popular with with youngins is that they they don't they you know they don't really appreciate how bad the financial crisis in 20 uh took 27 was in 20 27 28 uh 20 0 7 20 0 8 so other people that have been through you know things longer they kind of think oh the banks are resilient but no they're not they need bailouts they need they need money funding and that's from your that's from your pockets like it doesn't come from out of thin air what it kind of does it gets printed there's an infinite amount of money as we've seen um but i think also it's that traditionally additionally due to the decentralized nature they're traded internationally with authorities having little control over that whenever whenever they're saying it from the government's perspective it's like there's no control and everyone else is like there's no control over bitcoin it's two different completely slightly different sizes at the spectrum um you don't want to have want to have one party or a collection of parties uh to have control over bitcoin that's that's the point of it you need it to be decided by the masses um and that's the joy of bitcoin so whilst you know bank of England governor bayley says that it's it's dangerous and it's got no intrinsic value uh everyone just needs to do why oh are which is do your own research and i think that if you kind of if you look at sources and a varied variety of sources you'll see that uh often it's very politicized it's kind of like you know people are against bitcoin from the environmental perspective will often you know what often this this uh synergies as it were between who's against bitcoin and who isn't and but imagine if the u.s banned banned the internet for example like they were like oh we're going to ban the internet like silicon valley would be just in another country it wouldn't have stopped there wouldn't be a no silicon valley it would be a quarter different silicon valley and all the trillion dollar companies that came out of it um would be in another country so you're just losing out um silicon Bengali exactly is that what you said my headphones are on low um so i think go along swittsland's route which is you know rock bitcoin put the infrastructure in uh actually their take is that if you you know get licensed and help us fight crime boom you're in that's it fit in the door will even help you get visas and stuff um uh slightly more legitimately than how salvage or not saying it's not legitimate but just read the Wikipedia anyway uh anyway i'm going to shut up um but ultimately i think that uh don't ban bitcoin because it's a stupid idea well it's always more fun when they ban bitcoin than when they accept it and it often happens just a few weeks apart Ben arc your thoughts on Netherlands wanting to ban bitcoin entirely yeah thanks so much on the the meeting where they're like what does your speed coin can we buy it okay yeah we buy it but let's buy the bitcoin um it's good because it means it's a threat you know they're having these meetings about this this goofy software um uh which we've been playing around with for years because they're worried about it because they understand it could dent some of their power and grip over their populations because it gives them uh an off-ramp um safely you're not happy with your fear of currency you can off-ramp um uh and that they're worried about they're concerned about it i mean you know if they think it's going to crash and that's what they're worried about then it's fairly obvious i mean if that were a plausible thing to happen then it's it's going to take a while for it to happen maybe a bunch of you know South American countries or Central American countries adopt bitcoin the experiment ends horribly some major critical flaw in software we didn't predict because we weren't using it on scale and then you know bitcoin plummetes to zero um you know that that's that's a way so Netherlands are kind of it's a very preemptive step now i think it's just it's good because it's it it it means to them it's a threat in um it's it's not because it's uh if they actually really think that it's gonna it's gonna crush us gonna have any serious problems um but yeah it's you know you know it's a silly stance uh maybe they just did it for some like politicking reason you know you wanted to impress some old 40 doties in the you know corridors of power so they said something stupid often happens one thing i love is when instead of just going out for a blatant ban uh some countries just put massive taxes on it and the the headlines like this could hurt our citizens if you bought this so instead we're gonna put you in prison we're gonna hurt you taxes on it and uh just kidnap you like the logic makes no sense it's very strange that's actually you know they're quite a freedom loving people people in the Netherlands i'm just surprised that came out the Netherlands really meanwhile as josh is saying in the united states the fbi is running an underground communication device for criminals allowing them to communicate and then later in trapping them just as the fbi ran the silk road for a little bit allowing people to use it then in trapping them yet it's so bad to run these things yet the effort doesn't so good when you think about like this eight oh man visas more efficient um it may be by your calculations for example probably isn't not going to like this stage anyway um but like you know you don't turn around and go well no one should try a raindrop though we're banning raindropers and everyone should drive an electric mo pet because you know that's all you need and you shouldn't have anything else it's crazy yeah they say they say they always miss this social scale a bit like they look at just a bit coin on chain transactions sending one value from one person to another and they just completely exclude because it destroys the argument all the social scalability stuff um which we've all known about and just been trying to build out for years um which is what you get with you know lightning nowhere but then you know the additional data we can pack into a transaction as well so um and then you know i mean i know it we're not a story of a week or whatever but um we've been experimenting with payments splitting you know like bits recently and you just realise that you know using lightning network and using micro payments you can do away with like a lot of the legacy you know money management bollocks usually have to deal with and make production more efficient you know just just producing stuff um and that's a huge efficiency saver um and and reduces carbon footprints and things so uh yeah yeah is it is it is a doff stunts exit question yes or no forced prediction will the Netherlands join turkey china and i ran in banning bitcoin then arc yes or no yes no yes no all the answers no uh josh sigala will the Netherlands ban bitcoin yes or no there's no way there's no way there but you know how many like startups or over there uh in bitcoin they you they'll just have this massive brain drain and they go oh whoops uh we undo that that was spitzly dan eave yes or no i'm gonna say no and that's because martin uh we'll put in a good word for us he'd be like why would you do that what about bandits that's like he's in the room now we just need to bring up the gift on screen we'd be all set all right i think that's about it we've finished all the issues oh we're gonna move on to predictions or a story of the week dan eave are you ready with a prediction or a story of the week go ahead uh my okay now my story of the week this is gonna be one from the har after i said that uh you you know infinite love would be bad you know i've uh i'm gonna you know retract on that uh and uh my son he's been really almost nearly two years old just did this for anyone else who's worried had a like temperature of like 39.8 which is hotter than the sun it was insane it's like had it for a week but he's finding a lot better so my story of the week is that uh yeah my son who was very ill is now really doing really good and uh have faith you know because because it may seem that you know doctors and stuff fob you off but eventually you know people recover but make sure that you know you've nudged him and be like hey man don't fob you off all you need is love and love is all you need not infinite amounts infinite amounts of anything kind of questions the reality of physics but that's a different issue uh Ben Arck oh not talking about black holes here but do you have a prediction or a story of the week perhaps it escaped horizon um uh it can't refollot that kind of i'm i'm glad to hear that done i didn't know another poll or fellow was feeling under the weather that um it's quite terrifying particularly with the little ones when they get these high temperatures for long extended periods because they go floppy and you just freaking out the whole time so glad he's coming out the other side of that um not really i mean i mentioned the payments putting things to be going to extension on the bits where you can write split payments pretty cool kind of gets me excited uh just about you know people um you know to have to say you know a salesperson receiving their commission at the point and sale of an item so they just instantly that wallet gets funded or have you know if you've got value inputs going into a company have it go to all the outputs um instantly so to different departments and then different people working those departments could also be a obviously you know i like the idea of cops and uh um joint ventures so they can be used in that context to uh you you know capture value as opposed to letting that surplus value be managed by people who then inevitably gear the thing to be in their interests get rid of the middle managers um so there's that uh and yeah no i that that that's pretty much it i'm working on some of the stuff there's a i've got our new extension which we're going to put out file and bits but i've got to do some debugging so i'll probably put it out this weekend it's pretty cool uh you can connect your Spotify account to um Alan bits uh on a device and then through its API and then uh you can plug it into your bar have a little gooey which people go to and they can just pay for songs uh and it works well so i've been playing with that today so i still got to sort you know that's amazing so it's amazing it is and also tell them what you did at uh bitcoin 2021 uh you did the arcade machines oh that was such a stressful experience i've had that hack it this time you were able to use ln bits how did that go yeah no it it's really um there's a lot of serendipity there so i wasn't able to go because we can't travel to the us um but christian rootser was there so i sent a bunch of these like hardware and he was going to fit them to the arcade machines um so uh bitcoin magazine they paid for a bunch of these arcade machines and they're going to be retrofitted with the hardware quite annoyingly the hardware got lost by the organizers i think they're really busy so it that was it that was a bit of it took a while to kind of get these things retrofitted and christian rootser was really busy um running the hack dome um uh so you know we early on we asked uh the conference if they could have a hack space for developers for 300 open source projects where they could meet and then shield their staff and they they erected a huge massive incredible dome tent um and uh because i wasn't there then it kind of fell on christians shoulders uh to to to run it and uh he did he's amazing man like just such a great job um and i'm super grateful and i feel really guilty actually for because i mean he couldn't really do anything else in the conference but it's a very important space so i'm glad he did that anyway the person who ended up fitting these arcade machines with these hardware devices interesting he was george uh façero who um at the lightning hack day in new york in like 2018 um it we hooked up together because i i was i was really trying to put my figure out how to like it have a static QR code which you send sets to on lightning net book as opposed to having generate invoices and he figured out a way to put another quarter in you could send it to the same address yeah you just pay the same address like centipede and he had like this arcade machine which you brought with him and um he was able to hack the claire wallet so we do it get requests so the the QR code is basically just a url and the wallet scans it and then it just when it scans it it just receives an invoice and then the wallet just pays the invoice you know say yes pay the invoice that's the first version of lnurl um i'm you know later on after many months that eventually ended up by by fiat jaff and anton over at blw wallet that ended up not that specifically i don't know i don't know how much influence is there but much later on a different a different group team worked on the same idea and developed um lnurl pay lnurl with sure what's cool is these new arcade machines which are retrofitted they were using the lnurl pay so they had this static QR code and people paid it and then it was like putting a credit into the into the arcade machine so george was sorry did the first ever you know static QR code transaction on an arcade machine in the lightning hack day and then just randomly because he's the only person i could find at the conference you like new has to the hardware stuff uh and he offered he was the one who was then retrofitting this evolved this technology which should evolved over a few years to become an actual functional technology um into these into these new arcade machines so it was just so serendipitous uh i was talking about over it and again super grateful for that dude for hooking it up and then demoing it to a whole bunch of people uh it was great um uh so yeah thanks george that sounds great thanks again to the bitcoin 2021 conference to christian rootsl and the george uh for hooking it up and getting those machines to accept lightning i'm sure it was really neat uh for everyone to pay in satoshi's and then to play a video game just sounds great that's great all right josh igala a prediction or a story of the week go ahead well first i've got to say that i'm really also really happy to hear that your little fellas coming out the other side man it is yeah like Ben said it's scary and they're so uh fragile and small i think come on you can do it um yeah well the big news for us as we launched the standard uh the standard is um hoping to be uh we don't need to wait for government to create a gold standard type of thing we just create our own and uh i was i've been for years trying to figure out how to tokenize gold everyone's i tokenize gold and i'm like no it doesn't work you can't tokenize this gold because there's costs are holding the gold any gold coin out there that just says one to one elc20 is one gram of gold it's a scam because they're not paying for the demorage the the men the the women with guns at the front the big doors the insurance the auditing all that needs to be paid and if you lose your private keys that company is paying for that gold forever so they need new people to come in to pay for the people that are lost their private keys becomes a ponzi becomes a downward spiral it's silly how many grams of gold does it cost for that for a bottle of vodka no one knows everyone deals in their local currency so we built the standard which is um uh similar to the maker dial where people lock up physical assets as well as digital assets like um rap bitcoin or ethereum and uh and then generate standard euro so this will be a euro stable coin backed by gold and uh so inflation works for you as inflation comes in um it doesn't matter because you took out a loan from yourself and you pay that back and um uh in ten years time and you've still got your gold and you still got your bitcoin and uh you've been able to pay back a loan with fiat which has been inflated away so yeah for inflation uh if you're doing that so that's that's the big thing it's called uh the standard it's on the standard dot io so it's a bit of a passion project of mine we've got some really top people working on it uh some OGs in the crypto space who enjoy the idea um and i'm really excited to sort of tie in the physical side uh the you know the physical metals and uh and not just have the um uh you know this whole hatred towards the the gold hating on the crypto and the crypto hating the gold i think they work really really well together and uh and there's you know twelve point five trillion dollars sitting in gold involving facilities just gathering dust so it'd be really nice to see people being able to actually generate euros from them and later on we're going to allow other stable coins to be generated as well which will be um like uh garner um garner's currency and and um you know the the dollar maybe but there's so many stable coins that are already the dollar but the biggest issue i see with stable coins right now is that negative interest rate will come and that will destroy all these these these stable coins that are just purely one-to-one backing um because if if you hold a this is why there's no real euro stable coins around it's because if someone has a billion dollars worth of euros sitting at a bank he has to pay well they have to pay a negative interest rate on that that's going to basically bankrupt them so um so i think algorithmic stable coins are the future i think they're really really exciting um i i also love the idea of the the de-central banking mechanisms of the the community the Dow deciding on interest rates and one thing we're doing is trying to get around voter apathy because mega-dars a lot of voter apathy by um by using um using prediction markets instead of voting and prediction markets allowed so instead of you know you try to say in a week's time will this interest rate pay us closer to uh to the to the euro peg or not and these sort of mechanisms are really interesting i know this isn't a bitcoin thing but i wish bitcoin you know bitcoin how everyone said it's of store-of-value it's not something your program that well apart from on lightning but even on lightning it's not that programmable uh RGB is working on it um but you know bitcoin is that store-of-value thing so try to do something like this on bitcoin just isn't possible unfortunately but um you know i i i'm really interested in where this will go i'm i'm super excited by the team um the first partner is vultaro and all the customers will be able to basically lock up their gold as well as uh crypto assets into smart vault and exit that and if you go to the standard.io you can check out the videos there and and see what's happening and sign up to vultaro that's where the uh pre-market distribution if you want if you're one of these people that really love to get in super early and and these things um that's where that'll be yeah well done so oh yeah i'm uh i'm super excited about i think it's great and it's really interesting i'll have the idea of baskets of assets um back in these stable coins and then like we were talking before about hard currencies and soft currencies and uh one of the the flaws of a hard currency is you just you do that you vault it and then there's no economic you know lubrication it does know there's no where most of us the word these throughput no not throughput but the our velocity uh to to to to you know create economic movement uh so this kind of solves that if it can be done i know using your glass books protocol um and uh i hope it gets uh like traction and i hope um i'm looking forward to seeing some experimentation done with it i know you're like you're you're massively into doing like economic tricks to be able to increase your your stacks um with your your bitcoin and and i'm always scared to do things like that so i'm always very impressed um when i hear that you've you know bought this or that using your bitcoin is a very clever way so i don't expect that this this is going to be as clever um yeah soups excited about it thanks very much Ben yeah yeah i'm really excited about it because one of the things that has really troubled me for a long time is you just can't tokenize gold that easy and anything like all these projects i'm going to tokenize real estate or i'm going to tokenize all these things these have real world costs and if people lose their private keys those real world costs don't get paid because usually the mechanism is they say oh as soon as you send it part of the transaction fee goes splits off and pays for the external thing or whatever but then if you lose your private keys or if there's low velocity uh that doesn't happen so it it just breaks that whole model but this whole locking up uh we we do tokenize the gold but it never leaves the smart contract it just gets burnt out of the smart contract so it's more of a unit of account um uh to type to to peg it to the uh the voting facilities database uh of how much you've got so you're not allowed to sell the physical if you're a client of someone that's plugged into that this protocol so there's some really interesting stuff you can check out the white paper i really love anyone's feedback on it who's into this sort of thing um um and i we spend a long time writing the technicals on and the specs how this would work and so and uh there's a lot of a lot of really nice academic work as well it's gone into this so how do you how do you how do you how do you so how do you secure the basket of assets then like a dumb question like how does the gold sobsy gold's physical but then if you speak coin as well how is that also cured in your in your vault yeah so right now with vortoro it's basically secured in in brinks in Switzerland at the airport there and it's um old school audited insured and um big massive doors so the stand the stand is the same the stand is the same model so this what the standard allows is voting facilities like vortoro um to plug itself into this protocol and so anyone that's a customer of vortoro can then say okay plug it in and those assets that are held there and the community has to uh when i'm oiling a hard asset custodian like vortoro the the community the doug like the decentralized autonomous organization will vote on a new facility that's coming in they have to pass certain things that they have to be transparent with the with the glass books protocol they have to have a solid API but they also have to be fully insured and audited by top tier insurers and auditors so so and and the dark and also kick out hard assets as custodians if they're not up to part with their due diligence so um so it's it's all about the old school world you know we've had 3000 years of scams in gold um so Bitcoin has had 12 years of scams in Bitcoin so that 3000 years or more has has the gold uh industry is really learned on how to how to deal with that so it's very if there's one thing that humans do well is lock up physical things in vaults they're they're pretty good at it by now it's guns we can't say the same about Bitcoin yet we still don't know how to properly secure people are still getting hacked and stuff there are um you know certain companies that do to it well um but it's very very tricky so it's something that humans are still learning how to do is is secure digital assets but um um but yeah the the physical assets are pretty easy to secure and it's all about accounting and locking up the the server side stuff and the good thing is the more we decentralize the system by allowing new different hard asset custodians to plug into it the more decentralized it becomes so what we're trying to build is a protocol that will plug into independent vaulting facilities around the world and which will toros the first one yeah nice that's cool what if it goes the other way what if the inflation goes the other way just and I just let's give a city question but no i mean that would be the immediate concern yeah inflation goes the other way then yeah it's going to cost more to pay back your loan i mean if you're you're essentially borrowing money from yourself so um uh or going long on the assets that you have um so you want to um you know you want to check what is happening in your neck of the woods politically and and uh make sure you do things appropriately yeah cool well it sounds great Josh and people can check it out at the standard.io and we hope to hear more about it in the future as you guys get going thanks man i just like to ask everyone to check out world crypto network either at worldcryptone network.com or on youtube you could subscribe give us thumbs up you could hit that notifications bell we've got some new interviews this week mainly about NFTs a lot of them tell the history of a 27 NFT that i worked on called curio cards that was recently rediscovered but i'm afraid not widely discovered yet so it's been fun we've been chatting about NFTs and of course we got the Bitcoin and other shows for you right here on the world crypto network so be sure to subscribe down below uh give us a thumbs up and that kind of thing uh thanks so much for watching until next week bye bye bye