The Bitcoin Group, the American original. For over the last 10 seconds, the sharpest Satoshi's, the best bitcoins, the hardest cryptocurrency talk. We'd like to welcome our panelists, Andy Hoffman from Crypto Gold Central. Still muted. Haha. Sorry about that. Yes, it's a pleasure to be back. I look forward to talking about this ridiculous four-group stuff. Max Hillabran from towardliberty.com. Well, right, Andy, after such a long time of the Bitcoin Group that hasn't been there, then it's reasonable that the mic is still muted. Yeah, I'm glad to be back. Bitcoin Group, hell yeah. You have a very bright yellow screen, by the way. Haha. And I'm Thomas Hunt from the World Crypto Network. I went to Malta and now I have the Maltees Falcon. That's right, the actual Falcon. And moving on to issue one, the Bitcoin forks. The price of Bitcoin was down just a little bit this week, falling about 10% from a recent moderate number of $6,400 all the way to $5,199. Currently at around $5,599, $5,600. That's $1 for 18,000 Satoshis. Why did it fall? Well, according to you in the poll, you voted 5% Bitcoin ABC, 12% Satoshis vision, and 83% who gives a shit. And what was the shit this week? Bitcoin Cash forked. That's right, they're fighting again. The people who broke off from Bitcoin last year are breaking off from themselves with Roger Veer and Jehan Wu on one side and Craig Wright on the other, pushing forward with Satoshis vision. Satoshis vision expands the blocks, which were already empty from 32 megabytes to 128 megabytes. Yeah. It also avoids the complicated and controversial CTOR transactions structuring organizing program. Craig Wright didn't like that one bit. He's also rewinding to several of the old Bitcoin op codes and seems to be returning Bitcoin to its classic state so that it will never change again. Andy Hoffman, what are your thoughts on the exciting Bitcoin Cash? Well, I certainly couldn't get them all out in one answer. I'm just thinking about Jehan Wu and what he has on the line here. And the fact that all the guy had to do was just keep mining Bitcoin and he'd be the richest most respected man in the entire crypto community. Instead the power or whatever it has got to him and he joined forces with Roger Veer to create this monstrosity, which we all knew would miserably fail, but no one could have imagined it would turn into this just a year later. And now he's fighting for his life. He's already just been displaced as basically the managing director of Bitmain. Bitmain is desperate for money. They're desperate to get out from under their position in B Cash, which is being attacked by SV, which of course they now own too, except there's no replay protection. I mean, it's a giant mess for those guys, but the fact is they still have the hash rate and the guy who's attacking them is not really attacking them with much of a game plan. I mean, I was just sitting there thinking it's got to be like just a pump and dump scheme. He's not going to convince all these people that his plan to quadruple the block size and team up with this like online gaming mogul as opposed to Roger Veer and Gianmu and Bitmain and whoever knows about Wall Street Monies behind them. And again, in the first 24 hours, we haven't seen much of anything because the SV is only worth about a quarter of the B Cash. So I don't get this whole thing. It almost seems like it was done simply to attack the markets and capitalize on it because I just don't understand why they would do this. And as far as white Bitcoin would go down, far more than B Cash. I mean, is it true? Are they actually selling their Bitcoin to fund this war? I'm not sure what other reason it be because I haven't lost confidence in Bitcoin. I was writing about that this morning because of this insilience. It's a bunch of nobody's fighting over nothing. And I agree there's no reason for the Bitcoin price to go down unless they used it to fund their war. I know Craig Wright had a very negative tweet about Bitcoin, something about how he had found a bug in Segwit and only he could find it and only he could fix it. And I was very much about him. So I guess if you took that the wrong way and sold, you need to stop reading Craig Wright's Twitter as it count. There's a lot of that. And that's what I mean. I mean, I remember back when McCain was up against Obama and I remember he gave this a town hall and he was like, I know where Ben Laden is. And unless you make me the president, I'll tell you then. And this is equally ridiculous because of course there's no bug in Segwit. And certainly if there was, he wouldn't know of it and no one else would. And that's why I mean, every day I sit there and say to myself, what exactly is this? And I just go, we've got an online gaming billionaire in there. He's very angry obviously at the B Cash people for, I don't know, what he considers mismanagement or the money's lost in the venture. And he may have just simply teamed up in an effort to attack the network in short sell beforehand because there's just no way that anyone could conceivably believe this would work. And even if it did quote work, so what, you take over B Cash, I'm not sure what kind of prize that is, it's certainly nothing that the Bitcoin network would be worried about. And when they were originally working off, a lot of people were excited there saying, hey, we're getting rid of the untrustworthy people. We're getting them out of Bitcoin. And what do they do? They go immediately and start backstabbing each other and start stealing each other's projects. And this one is the real Bitcoin cash and that one is the real Bitcoin cash. And you can see why they look so bad from the beginning, this whole stealing the name argument. They've just lost their brand. None of the BCH links anywhere work anymore. It's BCH, dash SV or BCH, dash ABC. I'm sure it's going to make a lot of sense for the consumer. It's a lot easier to use now. Well, it's very sexy though, the power grab, I'm sorry, Max, you get there a second, because obviously, unlike Bitcoin, where no one can have any real power at all, in B Cash, Roger and G-Hon showed that they could exert enormous amounts of power and manipulation over prices. Maybe they thought at one point they could change Bitcoin, but at least they realized that they can manipulate the price for a time. And obviously, that power is something that Craig Wright wanted himself. The problem is that power is kind of useless right now. It's very much like Lord of the Rings, they're all fighting over the ring. They can all yield the ring, shows why we shouldn't have a ring. Bitcoin's such a powerful system because this can't happen to us. We see what happens when you have these large personalities. This one disagrees with that one, and Roger's crying in the video and talking about how you can't trust people and how bad it turned out for him. But that's been the theme this whole time along. They shouldn't have done what they did in the first place and they shouldn't do what they're doing now. And more importantly, we shouldn't care. Max, Hilla Brand, your thoughts. Well Roger is absolutely right. He cannot trust these people and he shouldn't trust these people. That's why we have Bitcoin, a trustless money without any counterparty risk. That was the entire point. And once you go for it, you never go back. Once you set the precedence of a change to the consensus rules, you pretty much let all hell break loose. Because inherently, we were not necessarily against a two megabyte block, although there are many difficulties or problems with that. But much more important, we were against changing the consensus rules and forcing this change upon the users. Because that is not what Bitcoin is about. Bitcoin is not about one centralized party getting their changes into the consensus and forcing it off. And inherently, this is what a hard fork does. It is a break off the consensus in such a way that those that do not follow are kicked off the network. So this is inherently a centralizing attribute that we saw that we've becash itself being much more centralized as Bitcoin on day one. And of course now they have set the precedence of forking and they will continue to fork. So it will go down even further and further and further until eventually everyone will have their own becash fork. And it's no longer a community of peers, a network of peers, but rather just one centralized hub. So hard forks are both a centralizing issue, which is quite dangerous for any blockchain-based system and for any consensus-based system. And especially, it is just immoral to change rules that we have previously been agreed to and forced everyone else to upgrade to these new set of rules. Well, no, thank you very much. You can keep your Bitcoin and I will stay true to the consensus that we all agreed upon. And of course now we're not talking about a fork of Bitcoin. We're talking about a fork of a fork that has no use case as it is. That was reading today, or the day how Bitcoin has hashed rate is up eight times since the becash fork. The becash is down and now it's down a little more. And literally it's not used for anything. It's almost like an afterthought. We haven't even heard from Roger Ver and what we certainly haven't heard from John Woo is probably in a, you know, he's not allowed to talk because of the trying to do their IPO. But even Roger Ver, I think he's just done talking about it. I think he knows that becash failed. And it sounds like from that video, he doesn't even want to fight this thing. He knows he has to and he's probably going to win. But I mean, you know, the only big question really, the only thing that matters in this is why is it affecting Bitcoin so much? There is just I, I, I, my brain, I look at every angle and I go, what could it possibly be? Like Trace Mayer is saying is calling what's his name? Thanks to Toshie's bluff. Like, how much Bitcoin could you actually have? And if, if B cash and Bitmain, Bitmain, the most powerful player in the entire Bitcoin network blew all their Bitcoin trying to save B cash and lost. I mean, it's a public, it's public knowledge that they destroyed themselves by selling that Bitcoin for B cash. Why would this guy who supposedly knows as much about Bitcoin as anyone say, I'm going to sell all my Bitcoin for this fake Satoshi SV thing, which has already pretty much failed in 24 hours. And we knew it would. I mean, it's almost like a joke for 128 megabyte blocks. We know that blocks don't scale and certainly blocks like that don't scale. So to me, it almost feels like a pump and dump. And at some point, we're going to have to have, you know, a raging rebound because, I mean, to me, it just makes Bitcoin stronger. Bitcoin cash was theoretically the only competition. Bitcoin cash is completely destroyed itself. And again, for me, it's way too much about reservoir dogs. Again, it's an old movie, but here's a spoiler for the ending. At the end, you've got your Harvey Kytel, who's your Roger Veer character, the old man. He was always trust no one, trust no one, but he trusted this young kid. He trusted Craig Wright Satoshi and he's sitting there and Craig Wright Satoshi says, no, you know, I'm going undercover. I'm working with the other side. I'm making my own Bitcoin cash and Roger's like, no, and he shoots them and then they all get shot and it all happens off screen. No one really knows what happens. But still, that's what we have here. You can't trust criminals. Roger and them, we feel bad like we want to send them a message through the wire like, come back, you know, you trusted criminals that went horribly for you. Come back to real Bitcoin. Give up on even Bitcoin cash, ABC or SV or whatever, but they can't. They're too far gone. Well, let me ask the two of you, because, you know, again, you know, my best, you know, pragmatic view, my Occam's razor is that this was concocted by Craig Wright. You know, he got on board a billionaire. And again, a billionaire can do a lot of damage in either direction if he's motivated to create a scheme in which they get the prices to fall and they're short of before him. Because logically, I just don't understand how they think that they could win Bitcoin cash over, let alone Bitcoin. I mean, it was like, you know, like Trace Mayor is again, I was listening to him on Adam. He's talking about, you know, your troops will get mowed down if you go up against the Bitcoin network. And frankly, they look like they're getting mowed down against the B cash network. So if it was an unwindable war, why would you do it? And that's my best guess. So I'm asking the two of you, your Occam's razor, what exactly do you guys think his motivation was? I think you have bad generals and it's all about themselves. So for Craig Wright, it's all a big ego play. He wants to be the leader of Bitcoin. He wants people to listen to him. Same kind of thing. Roger there. He wants people to listen to him. He's the reason the Bitcoin became popular. It wasn't the code or the technology. It was him out there at the barbecue. Him out there starting these companies. He is the reason for Bitcoin. And the same thing for Craig Wright, whatever he is involvement is if it's a climbing, writing Bitcoin and Craig is advising him or there's a Satoshi group. And there is actually a discussion about what they should do with Bitcoin. We don't know if he's really involved, but either way, he's not being listened to enough. He's a billionaire with a yacht. He's more important than you and you should be listening to him about Bitcoin. So. But the big difference between Roger and Craig Wright is, Roger Vera was a very wealthy man and he put his money. I mean, I'm assuming he wasn't lying. I'm assuming he didn't say I sold all this Bitcoin for B cash and completely lied about it. I'm pretty sure he sold a big chunk of Bitcoin for B cash. So yeah, he put his money where his mouth is. And frankly, his reputation was amazing in the Bitcoin community. Whereas Craig Wright, you know, again, traces making fun that he probably doesn't have much Bitcoin. He certainly is not well known to be someone who had a lot of Bitcoin. And because of his fake Satoshi thing, he has an absolutely disgraced reputation. So we had neither the reputation or the money that Roger bear had. So again, why would you think that you could win? With 128 megabytes of blocks. It doesn't always have to be logical. OK. Max, what do you think? Well, yeah, that's that's a really good question. I think in, in hand, we Roger had, I mean, yes, for a long time, we've been finding port for these bigger blocks, right? And I think in handly, that was one of his core strides to scale big corner chain. And it might be that he actually had clear intentions in that. But then as you said, Andy, when you trust these will crooks quite literally, then this is not going to end well. And the curious aspect is of when is he going to realize that? And probably he already has. Right? He maybe thought that he was he was representing the main consensus that he was actually speaking and presenting or representing all as others sovereign individuals. But well, clearly, that was a misjudgment on his part. He neither spoke, what was in our consent or either even in our interest. And well, you never know something like that until you proved it on the free and voluntary market. So it's quite clear that he just backed the wrong horse and maybe had some stake in a sick boost and then some other stuff to get not get psyched within. I think that was a big motivation as well. But now with this continuous forking, I think he's just going to have to live with the consequences of breaking consensus. Yeah, you know, with the whole big block thing. And again, it's been proven that you can't scale on chain. I've done podcast with Rocky Blumbo. We did some big show to all the charts that you, it's impossible. So but B cash started out with eight megabyte blocks when they forked in August of 2017. And then they did an upgrade, they forked off and made it 32 megabyte blocks, which is where it is now. And now SV has 128 megabyte blocks. So my question is, okay, Roger wanted big blocks, right? The big blocks with quotes around it. I guess compared to big coins, one, anything is bigger, eight is much bigger. 32 is gargantuan. Do you think that Roger thinks that 128 megabyte blocks is doable? I mean, is this is this too big? I mean, how big is big blocks? Well, right. If it already is way too big. And and we have Jeremy in the chat saying that Ryan X Charles, the payment processor for, I forgot the exact company. Who is complaining on a public call that they cannot process at these large blocks. It's simply impossible for them as a payment processor. As someone who is a professional in the field of verifying the block chain and then parsing through it, they cannot handle it. And now please tell me how could I with my Raspberry Pi handle such large blocks? It's just it's impossible. So are 126 megabytes is that large enough? Well, clearly not. We need even bigger blocks, terabyte blocks. Yeah, I want to know for Roger Vera will say 128 megabyte blocks is too big. Like because if he said that he won a big block, it's something he must have had an idea. I'm sure it didn't mean infinite blocks. Like 128, why not 256? I think they'll go for it. Remember, they have a totally different view of mining. They think mining should be done at a data center in a controlled environment by professionals. Mining shouldn't be done by individuals at home or by crazy mining rigs and Iceland or Venezuela or wherever they can get the cheap power. They want mining to be done by professionals in server rooms, even though it reduces the censorship resistance of Bitcoin. So no, I think they would go as far as they can go. Gigabyte blocks, five gigabytes, 10 gigabytes, until they run out of disk space, right? Yeah, I won't even go into the technicals. I know Rocky Palombo says that like, you know, it'll take like 10 hours to verify blocks and they need to put them out every 10 minutes. They're saying in the chat we could do it with just one data center, all of Bitcoin and one data center. That'll be totally fine. Well, you know what? Come and take it. It's got Bitcoin right there. All right, let's move on to the exit question. Who will win Bitcoin cash, ABC, Bitcoin cash, SV or who cares? Andy Hoffman. Well, ultimately who cares, but it's pretty obvious that that ABC is already one. I mean, if I mean, we were talking about how, oh, he's going to have, uh, SV is going to have 70% of the hash rate. And again, I can't even know where to find hash rate, but I do know from market cap right now that, uh, he cash is, is, uh, $400 and SV is $100 24 hours later. Obviously he had a plan to increase the hash rate and it hasn't happened. So, and this is the most critical period. So he's lost. As far as I'm concerned, it's over. Over. Well, uh, consensus will prevail and the status quo will be uphold. That is how blockchain based systems work. If you cannot convince pretty much 99 to 100% of the nodes to upgrade, upgrade, uh, and change their software, well, they're not. There's no way that you can force individual nodes to, uh, to change the consensus rules. And therefore I would say that the status quo, which is Bitcoin, ABC, uh, I'm not even going to call it a current, like a B ABC doesn't. Like the status quo of the shake on will prevail. Or Bitcoin is one goal calls it. The answer is who cares? No one cares about Bitcoin cash. Moving on to issue two is Bitcoin a credible credible payment system for terrorists. More exciting articles from Forbes magazine were according to a 20 in Europe, old report. Bitcoin was used in more than 40% of high profile criminal investigations, involving criminals in the European Union. I'll bet the other 60% was probably cash. Uh, remember Bitcoin is just like cash. You can use it anywhere to buy anything. Should we stop that max? Hill bread. Uh, the article is 100% right. Bitcoin is the most credible payment system for terrorists. And absolutely we, we should get all the terrorists using Bitcoin. But, uh, well, it doesn't really matter much because guess what? Uh, criminals, they live on the edge of the long, right? They have thin margins that, uh, in their profit. And they need to make sure that they have the most efficient and most secure, and most reliable tools and techniques that they can use in order to still be profitable. Well, same is true for any technology. And money is just another network technology. As the world terrorist use Bitcoin, absolutely. Should they? Well, yeah, it's pretty damn good. Andy Hoffman. Yeah. And I think they should just have a weather vein. They probably do have a weather vein in Forbes's office. I mean, Forbes puts out more crypto articles than all the other mainstream, um, publications combined. And it's like, well, if the price is going down, they write the most vicious anti Bitcoin articles you'll ever see. And then when it's going up, they got their other guy, Billy Bambro, whatever's name is putting out the most fluffy, uh, you know, like 100,000 Bitcoin, uh, type articles ever. And you know, and I look at it, I know that that that type set fine as soon as I saw it up, prices down, they're going to be attacking. And I see that they also did that article about the next article with the guy in the ECB. I mean, I don't even really want to dress this whole stuff. I think Max was obviously mocking it too. I mean, criminals are just people too. They do transactions in their best interest. And, uh, and so do we all. And, um, at Bitcoin's best for that, that's great. But Bitcoin didn't come around because of criminals. Uh, it came around because the criminals in the banking system, uh, destroy the monetary system. And now that we have it, everyone should use it. So the same old story with the internet when the internet first came out, they said it was all for criminals. And now we all use the internet. We must all be criminals, uh, like Andy was saying, it's all about competition. Uh, the banks went too far. They drove fees up too much. They had the, uh, whole invisible loans in the boxes, all the kind of fun games and systems they invented. And people have had enough, just like Uber versus the taxi companies. Uber provides such a better service than the taxi companies. You know where your car is. You know where he went. You know where you went. The same thing for Bitcoin. It's a much better money experience, uh, whether you're a terrorist or a business man or just a normal guy using Bitcoin, it's a much better experience. And that's what's going to win out. In the end. Yeah, absolutely. And but, but, but then again, right? Who are the actual, where is the actual money laundering happening? And well, you know, you need a license for money laundering and that's called the banking license. And if you are HSBC or, or, or other huge conglomerate banks, then you are involved in money laundering, uh, quite literally and for many individuals, including, but not limited to terrorists. Uh, so will Bitcoin be used by these terrorists? Well, hopefully they will, they will as realize that a Bitcoin is just in general, a much better money. Um, and you know, maybe they will also just move all their money and laundering activity away from banks and into Bitcoin, which I think would be quite nice for us. Everyone knows that terrorists only use Bitcoin cash, only Bitcoin cash. Uh, let's go to the exit question. Andy Hoffman, will the media continue writing articles like this forever? Or will there be a certain point where we reach adoption and they have to stop writing the fear uncertainty and doubt articles about Bitcoin? Uh, they will write negative articles when things are going down and they'll write positive articles when things are going up because they want clicks and they want to make money. There are no different than anyone else in just, just like everyone loves in the investment community. They loved Bitcoin. They love my company. They loved World Crypto Network when the price is going up. Now they don't care about any of it. It's just simple, simple economics. Max Hillerbrand, same question. Well, yes, clearly they will continue writing these shit posts until they're gone. And well, if we have sound money, then hopefully we will sooner or later achieve a state of sound journalism. And once we have reached that state where they actually do their research and look into the topics that they are propagating, uh, well, then people will realize that stuff like the forebs or your financial times is just a, a fluff piece. Excellent. We just like to ask everyone to give us a thumbs up and a share. Uh, that'll help more people find the show. Also, we're still accepting donations to send mad bitcoins to the Frankfurt conference, the multi conference and home. That's right. You can donate right here on tallycoin at tallyco.in the free Bitcoin fundraiser that anyone can use. Donate now to send mad bitcoins home. We need your help. He's stuck out there on the air, on the airway. He's on the side of the runway. Change your help. Issue three Bitcoin charts suggest price mount bounce may be coming. The price of bitcoins gone down and that can only mean one thing. The price of Bitcoin is going back up. It's created a long tailed doji on the charts. The RSI is reporting oversold conditions and it's going to be added to coin base. That's right. And it's being added to coin base. Very exciting news. Andy Hoffman is the price of Bitcoin going back up immediately. Oh my god. Do I have to answer about charts? You're going to have to answer it now. Yeah. Oh, like the, I mean, the fundamentals have never been better. I mean, the network cash rate is as strong as it's been. Currencies around the world are crashing. The Chinese you want Indian Ruby. You name it. Brazilian real everything. The use cases for Bitcoin only multiply the price of gold and silver are sitting near all time inflation adjusted lows. And the news if you want to put quotes around it is that B cash which was soundly defeated by Bitcoin is destroying itself. And the price of Bitcoin is down a lot with the only real explanation out there, which whether it's true or not even know is that the two B cash factions are selling Bitcoin to fight each other. It would seem logically that the fundamentals would point to the price going back up especially because you have back is going to be launching in the next few weeks. You're probably, I mean, I think that the SEC is going to prove that that solid X fund by December 29th. I mean, you have some major catalyst at a time where again, you know, is this, this is what the big news is that B cash is destroying itself. So again, if the technicals agree with the fundamentals, I'm all for them, but I don't, you know, charts, you know, how I feel about them. Max Hillerbrand. Well, I just checked on my note and we're still at Blockhide 555356. We still have a currency supply of 17,379,412 Bitcoin. I do not know precisely where this plum, the plumage is currently happening. As far as I am concerned, Bitcoin is still on track. Still on track and chatting with the chat. Yes, I think Bitcoin will be fine. It's more nonsense. I do like these charts though. You get to say when it goes down, it's going to go down more. When it goes up, it's going to go up more. I'm a genius. I read that on the chart. So. Well, look, when it comes down to it though, the biggest picture is this bear market is very persistent. And I was writing about this morning, the biggest sin that the thing that makes Craig Wright such a horrible, horrible villain is to launch it at a time when the sector, and again, this plays into my, I don't know, sort of theory about what he's doing, to attack the sector like this at a time where it's so weak and vulnerable with such weak sentiment, exacerbates things. And that's our real sin, especially for someone who not only has a personal interest in the system, but claims to be Satoshi. This is real destructive stuff that was done for absolutely no reason. Other than, in my view, personal gain, which ultimately, if he didn't hedge himself, he's going to end up in the same position that that bit name is in. Well, it's funny because we have the best, best people. You've got Satoshi or the Satoshi group donating this project, giving away the code, giving away the idea. But we also have the worst, worst people. We have fake Satoshi creating this scam. We have all these other altcoin people creating their scams. They'll take anything and everything from anybody. They'll do it all. They'll actually do have the best and the worst here in Bitcoin. It's a great dichotomy, right Max? Well, yes, absolutely. But inherently, all the honeybatchers just don't care. We will continue producing blocks and we will continue not breaking the inflation rule. We will just continue to move forward. Let these price talkers talk, price, that's boring. Let these foregars go fork and let these shit corners go shit. We're going to sit down and get shit done and we're going to work on, you know, beat exciting stuff, lightning network, side-chain, hopefully. And just overall adding functionalities, Xiaomi and CoinTroins, more signatures, aggregated signatures, Merkleized, AppStrike, Syntax3, all these fancy technical passwords that don't need to jack anything to the average user are actually what is going to move this place forward. And if we do not focus on these fundamental building blocks of Bitcoin, but rather get caught up in nonsense like the price, well, we're not going to achieve our goal. And if our goal is financial self-somity, it's only better, sure, dependent. Right. I agree with all that except for the fact that the price is not nonsense. The rate of adoption is highly dependent on the price. The higher the price is, the more institutions get in, the more investment into the Bitcoin network and the stronger the chain gets. And that's why anyone who's doing things that slow down the price and cause bear market conditions is slowing down the capital that's flowing into it. And like you said, yes, honey, better don't care. Bitcoin's not going away. But if we want the system to expand at its fastest possible rate, we want the system to be strong financially. And by that, I mean higher prices. So again, you know, the system's Bitcoin's not going away. But you know, low price is definitely doesn't help its rate of growth. Seems like the Yin Yang simple. They created a Manhattan project for good. And on the other side, they had to create a Manhattan project for bad to equal it out. And since Andy does think the price is important, we're going right back to Andy with a forced prediction, the price of Bitcoin this time next week, higher or lower. Well, look, I have to predict that it's going to be higher. Like I said, I mean, we just had this big drop based on nothing fundamental. And it's not because the chart said it. It's because we've been in bear market conditions for a while. Certainly, even when Bitcoin was consolidating in the 6,000 range, it was doing it in a very unique fashion at the same time, the old coins. Many of them had not yet bought them. So these are weak conditions. But in the case of Bitcoin, fundamentally nothing has changed. And we've had a big drop down based on news that's not really news to me. So yes, I'll predict that it's higher for what it's worth. Max Hillabrand, higher or lower? Well, again, it will be higher. And it will be exactly at 17,392,000 and 12 Bitcoin in circulation. And I'll go higher as well. That means the entire panel is going higher, probably a bad sign for Bitcoin. Moving on to issue four, European Central Bank Executive calls Bitcoin the evil spawn of the financial crisis. Today was the 10th anniversary of the white paper. And let's not forget that in the white paper, as the man reminds us here, few remember that Satoshi Nakamoto, the inventor of Bitcoin, embedded the Genesis block with a Times headline from January 2009 about the UK bank's bailout. In more ways than one, Bitcoin is the evil spawn of the financial crisis. Let's go to Max Hillabrand. Is he right? Is Bitcoin the evil spawn of the financial crisis looking to kill the banks and to undo the evils of 2008? Oh, absolutely. Bitcoin is pure poison for inflation based, debt based, fiat based systems. Bitcoin is for them quite evil and quite dangerous. And they are afraid and rightfully so. Well, and for us, freedom loving self-sovereign individuals, Bitcoin is just what we have been waiting for because it gives us a way to walk away. And that is something that is feared by governments around the world. And their citizens just giving up and walking away and withdrawing their consent. And that is exactly what Bitcoin provides you, a path of leading. And this is inherently for Bitcoin, this is all about. And was it a monster that was created? Well, maybe it definitely is a sewer rat. Andy Hoffman. Yeah, you have noticed the guy's name. And I have a long history of reading garbage from this guy from my gold days. His name is Kor, which means heart. And he's, I mean, this is a guy who is as heartless as a guest. He's been on the ECB board for a long, long time doing everything possible to destroy Europe. And you could see what's going on now with Italy on the verge of leaving the Eurogroup, the Brexit whole negotiations is falling apart. Europe is a basket case right now. And the European Central Bank that he's been on a part of the board on has had negative interest rates for four years right now. And they just said they're going to keep them negative for another year. And they've had QE for four years now. And they've, I don't even know how many trillion they've bought back. They've absolutely destroyed the capital markets, purchasing power of the citizens. And so, you know, when you have a guy like that, talk about Bitcoin being evil, it's quite ironic. But then again, what exactly is he talking about? It's evil about it. I mean, it's, it's just peer to peer money with no inflation. I'm not sure. Yes, it's a competition to them, but I'm not sure where the word evil comes in other than just, I'm going to be purely propagandistic to 80% there's. Well, remember, they're running out of tools left in the bin. They tried to kill Bitcoin so many other ways, so many other times. Now they're just desperate. They're calling it evil. Like Microsoft used to say about open source, open source is evil. It's communist, it's a, you know, red, red army, right wing propaganda, you know, there was nothing left. And now we look, Microsoft owns GitHub. Microsoft is including the Linux command line inside of windows. All of these things keep happening as the side of good wins, the side of bad loses. And if you need to know which side is which, check the internet. We've got all the information you need. Leave yourself in truth and stand strongly. And that is what Bitcoin is doing. We are with the truth. Stealing is bad. Period. Empty inflation is theft. Period. Well, and we're going to stop inflation. That's it. Moving on to the exit question, which company, country or bank will be the first to join up with Bitcoin? Max Hillebrand, which will it be a company, a country or a bank? It will be free and sovereign individuals. Oh, Andy, he's got a dodge there. What have you got? Well, it's not going to be a country per se. Again, look, if the price is soaring, then a lot of people want to join on. A lot of companies, countries and individuals, it's, it's the smart cool thing to do. When it's down, no one would admit to that. Well, what's going to happen is you're going to see stuff like backed where they're just gigantic smart money, money pools. They see the future is strong and they are going to create big institutional products. Fidelity is another one. And they will promote them. And eventually, it takes time when Bitcoin becomes more mainstream than companies, countries, and big individuals will embrace it. The country is Malta. After the blockchain, Mania wears off. They'll find that they've got Binance living in their backyard and it's 10% of their GDP. The question then is you try to get more than 10% or less. They'll go for more. They'll adopt Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies and they'll go for broke. They're right there in the EU and I've even been there. It's called Malta. The Maltees Falcon right here. The real one. All right. I think we're, uh, good, Max. Well, but Thomas, did you really think that that Malta will not put itself on a blockchain first? Before they put their money on the blockchain. Malta chain is a very popular chain. It has a lot of islands like Gozo and Malta and their chain together on the Malta chain. And it's proof of island. Prove island. Well, let's move on to predictions or a story of the week. Andy Hoffman, are you ready with a prediction or a story of the week? Yeah, so funny. I usually forget about the story of the week because I just came out as to the last second. I had family coming into town. Now, I mean, it's just a time to ponder. I mean, this is definitely a major event. I mean, when you're talking about consolidation, you know, in this low 6,000 level all year and then suddenly you're below that, it's, you know, and we were in a pretty lethargic state before that. So again, there's a lot of people that are going to be looking at the space now and trying to figure out what is going on. It's something change in the space and certainly did something change because of SV, which is ridiculous because SV change is nothing. The fact is there's a lot of people this year. We're still in the aftermath of what happened a year ago that are mist that are not trusting cryptocurrency in general. And they are in this case throwing the baby out with the bath water because big coins use case and strength is better than it's ever been. So I think right now it's a time to realize what Hodling means. It's not the first time in big coins 10 years that you've been forced to hoddle as opposed to what happened in 2016 and 2017 where things always went right. Big coin is not going away and nothing about this. And this ultimately as I wrote the other day, you know, the SV is just another hurdle for it to cross, which it will. Max, Hilla Brand. Well, blocks will be produced, but that's not really a prediction, right? That's a known. What will be though quite interesting to see is how the lightning network further develops. And I would go so far as to say that within one year, all the big coiners are going to use lightning network. And we think we will have increased the entire user base of the true others of the Bitcoin people by plenty for. And I do believe that with lightning network coming and the additional liquidity that these smart contracts will provide, not only will it increase the market depth of Bitcoin, it will also help in the price as well. If you have a more liquid market, then this will generally just lead to a more usable currency. And the more usable currency means a more valuable currency. Thus, the more usable we make Bitcoin and that includes the lightning network, that might even include side chains, as they are still pecked to Bitcoin. Then the value of Bitcoin will go up. And as we saw with the lightning hack date, then the chain code labs residency or the spec meeting in et al. date, these protocols are continuously being developed and they will go literally to the moon and beyond. And remember, any day that Bitcoin keeps going is a good day. The fact that such a project can exist from so many disparate actors, miners, nodes, programmers, users, all fighting against each other, all looking to rip each other off, and that the project is still there day after day is the success of Bitcoin. Every time someone looks at it and they say, well, don't you need a Charlie Lee, don't you need a Vitalik Booter in, don't you need somebody like that to run and manage your Bitcoin. And we keep getting way without it. Bitcoin keeps surviving, it keeps running. So that's what I think we need to focus on is that Bitcoin is still running. And you can use, go ahead Max. I just found that one more prediction, I think is necessary. And that one prediction is that very, very soon this thing here will be obsolete. No more nodes. And remember, you can even test out your Bitcoin. You can send it right here to our fundraiser. It's right here on tallycoin at tallyco.in that anyone can use. You just bring a Bitcoin address and you can fundraise for whatever you want right here on tallycoin. So check it out. You could donate some Bitcoin. Someone donated just $1,700. We would stop fundraising for a while. It would be amazing. So donate now to tallycoin. Be sure to give us a thumbs up and a share down below. If you haven't already, please subscribe to the Bitcoin Group and the World Crypto Network. We do shows like this all the time. And we've got a lot more interviews coming your way from Europe. I just got back from a Europe trip and working on new stuff here at the World Crypto Network. So be sure to stay tuned. Until next time. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye, all. See you.