The Bitcoin Group, the American original. For over the last 10 seconds, the sharpest Satoshi's, the best bitcoins, the hardest cryptocurrency talk. We'd like to welcome our panelists, Gabriel D. Vine from Future Rant. Hello internet, hello Bitcoin and hello posterity. Ian D. Martino from Coin Journal. What up? Jack Mollers from Zap wallet. Yo, what's up fellas? Thanks for having me back. Jeffrey Jones from the Bitcoin News Show. How's it going everybody? And I'm Thomas Hunt from the World Crypto Network, moving on to issue one, price drop. The price of Bitcoin has fallen more than 40% over the last week, from all time highs of 19,000 to recent lows of $10,000 of coin. Gabriel D. Vine, I ask you, what is causing this sudden and precipitous drop in Bitcoin prices? In my opinion, although one could argue that a recent B cash pump may have been part where some whales were selling off some Bitcoin in order to pump the shithawk, I do believe that this was just normal market action after a parabolic move. We bounced off of the bull line. I don't have any charts to show you guys, but the bull line that started in November, the beginning of the last week in November, there was a steepening of the bull line that we've already been experiencing. And it went up an angle. And then it went up a much steeper angle a couple of weeks later. And that was the move from like 14 to 19,000. And we just bounced off of that earlier line from only a month ago. So we're actually still above the trend line that started a month ago. These are all December prices basically. This whole bull correction, I'm excuse me, bearish correction that we've experienced over the last three days is still only three and four week old prices at the most. So just normal market move, parabolic correction. I agree with the crazy Canadian that's been making a lot of waves with his very specialized parabolic chart analysis, technical analysis, parabolic trap. And with his analysis that this is actually a correction within the parabolic general parabolic bull trend. All right, just ask everyone to give us a thumbs up and a share as we have 434 live viewers. Ian, the question Gabriel asks is the right one. Is this just a normal correction or is it a B-cash related nightmare? Well, if you look at the last big jump up, there was the Mt. Gox thing hitting that exact time. It's funny how things kind of parallel. Not that coin base is about to go insolvent. I guess we're gonna talk about something like that a later. But as far as B-cash thing goes, it's a nothing that may have caused some worrying stuff. And like you say, people pulling out in order to participate in this pump and dump. When it comes down to it, there's just gonna be another giant spike like this in two years anyways. It's gonna dwarf this one. If you look at the Bitcoin charts, they always look the same. You look at one from three years ago, it looks identical to the one right now because there's only one, it looks like there's only one giant spike. But it's just because it dwarfs the last spike, which dwarfed the last spike, which dwarfed the last spike. So everyone just calm down. It'll probably be 50 grand in three years or something. So even if you buy at the peak at 19,000 or 20,000, you'll be fine. So just, and that's just, this one might not even be over. This could just be a little temporary dip. Don't worry about the price. The price is the least important thing. If you bought it then, and of this rally, you really should need me looking to make money out of this rally. Should we be looking to make money out of the next rally in two years? I do agree with you on the price. It is starting to look like a fractal. If you zoom in, you could see the 1200 run. If you zoom in, you could see the 300 run. But looking at them right now, they're just little bumps compared to this crazy 19,000 run. Jack Muller. You're just like, oh, it's happening over and over. Same thing over and over. Jack, do you agree? Oh, I agree. This is nothing to know, jeez, man. I saw a parabolic trap tweeted, my favorite thing to tell my friends is to just zoom out a little bit. We've been through Silk Road, Lawsky, Herndrage Quid, China's Bandus on limited amount of times. We are on a phenomenal amount this year. So I am not concerned in the slightest. I got a bunch of texts like, how do I know when I've missed out? How do I know when it's cheap? And my favorite answer is, you don't, you don't. And that's part of being a hot-learn and early adopter. I'll tell you what, if you want the time when you can use zap on your iPhone to buy Christmas gifts, when we've got an ETF and liquid futures to reduce volatility, give me like two or three years, but the price might be a hundred to 500 grand. But if you can stomach some early price volatility, if you can self-educate and be part of this community, this is just what happens. But I'm not concerned in the slightest. It's a good point. This is what it's like to be an early adopter. They didn't used to let normal people buy early shares of Facebook or Twitter because they would experience these swings. Well, at the same time, everyone knows Twitter technology was solid, Facebook technology was solid. And if you extend the analogy, Bitcoin technology is solid. If you invested in the thing that you really bought and you invested for a good reason other than just the price going up, you're fine. You're not worried. Jeffrey Jones, does the honey badger care? Nah, not really. We've been expecting a correction now for a while, probably since around 5K. This will be about the sixth correction we've had this year that's about 30%. So just nothing new. We corrected them and go up higher. B Cash was of course a little bit contributing to this correction as well. Just like they were the last one, they tied these things completely perfectly in order to best sabotage Bitcoin, best they can. We're still well above the 200 day moving average. I mean, as everybody said here, I already know, but he's worried. As everybody's already mentioned, I really recommend following parabolic draft. He's got a lot of insight into this type of stuff as this is the trend that he actually studies for a living. And according to him, we're still in the parabolic trend. So there's really no breakdown there at all, especially if we stay over 14K. If we close this daily candle over 14K, no problem. I'm still fully expecting a 40K Bitcoin next year with ETFs, lightning and more. It's going to be really, really, really amazing with more and more people coming in. And again, Wall Street has been 1,000Xing this kind of stuff for years, right? I mean, me and you, we weren't privy to Facebook shares early, right? We didn't get these types of privileges. So the fact that we've gone up over 1,000% this year is amazing because this is finally the first time that the average regular person can go in and actually get something 1,000Xed. You know, like I said, Wall Street's been doing this shit for freaking decades. And so now it's finally our turn and they're going to get some expensive coins next year. Some people say you'd have to be crazy to hold, but they'd also say you'd have to be crazy to sell. Let's go on to the exit question, the price of Bitcoin this time next week, Gabriel D. Vine, higher or lower? Well, first of all, I'd like to make a shout out that this prediction goes out to Sobu. Okay. Thank you so much for your donation. I just hope there's going to be a lot of 8 in this community. Donation, let's see some 8s. Yeah, exactly. Prediction for next week's price. The 29th, 2017 go out on a limb and say we'll be retracing up towards new all-time highs, but we won't be there yet. So I'm going to say 1,250. That's clearly up, Jack Mollers. I'm going to go higher. I know the two things that concern me is holiday season, we have thin books traditionally, and January has not been kind of Bitcoin, at least since I've been involved, but honey badger doesn't care and neither do I. So I'm going to go higher. Jeffrey Jones, the trend continues higher. Yes, so we're going to be going sideways a little bit here, but I'm fully expecting new all-time highs in January. And Ian D. Martino. Yeah, thinking we're going to be on like a holding pattern for a little bit while everyone kind of sorts out the news. So either slightly higher, slightly lower, but nothing significant. And I'll stick with the group and I'll go higher. Bitcoin's on sale. It's a good deal. It's always a good deal. It's always on sale. Moving on to issue 2, UTXO Nightmare. Twitter rumors expose that Coinbase could have a problem on his hands. Because of the way Coinbase stored their bitcoins, they might have to pay more to access their coins than their coins are worth. A systemic mistake like this might explain Coinbase's new focus on altcoins, the avaricious profits that come from altcoin trading fees. Ian D. Martino, is this the most creative exchange hack yet? A self hack? I'm not sure. I want to hear exactly what's going to happen from them. But I saw that chart or the you know, those rumors on Twitter and they seem pretty convincing. But we just got to wait and see what happens. It doesn't look good for Coinbase. They've been kind of disappointing these last two weeks. Man, it's been pretty bad. But you know, they do have a lot of shitton of VC money behind them. So I think they would have a way to make up some losses without you know, putting it on their customers. Well, and eventually if the price keeps rising, they could access these coins someday. It's possible they could borrow against these coins, take in new VC money, wait for the price to rise. It's not impossible. Jack Mollers, is Coinbase done at this time? Oh boy, they haven't been disappointing these last few weeks. They've been disappointing these last few years. I'm fired up at Coinbase. I'm going to leave my Coinbase ran for the next topic. But this just is a little window at the full-on incompetence of a company that is supposed to represent our industry. I think it's embarrassing. I hope that they don't gox us and I don't think that they will. But the fact that they do have so much VC money, it doesn't seem like they've been building products and services for the customers and the users of Bitcoin for years now. It's been very venture capital focused on to value themselves at whatever billion dollar valuation they are. And it's a circus over there. I really hope they do figure it out because they are a valuable piece of this community. But frankly, embarrassing. So not happy with Coinbase. Jeffrey Jones, how could this happen? Is this just like a tangled mess of software code? Everyone said they were going to fix it later and they kept parking the cars in the garage. And now nobody can get out. What's going on at Coinbase? Yeah. So I mean, Jack nailed it pretty well. I mean, they've got a considerable amount of VC money. And they have made poor technology choices time and time and time again every step of the way. In addition to technology choices, they've made basically, in general, the wrong choices every single step of the way for the past couple of years. We've been bashing on Coinbase for a couple of years now and it's not going to stop. It's only getting worse and worse. It's almost like Roger. They just keep doubling down on their stupidity. Adding more and more coins. Adding freaking Bitcoin cash. I mean, did that whole fiasco? I mean, pushing the 2x down our throats when they can't even scale their own off-chain infrastructure, they really do continue to make the wrong decisions at every single curve. And there's going to be a point where the community is going to fight back and we're going to start our own exchange. I mean, there's going to be competition. I'm pretty, pretty sure that we're going to have a huge amount of decentralized exchange volume next year. I think that's going to start to rapidly increase. And by the end of the year, it will be a completely viable option for the average user to be able to use. And so that stuff is coming. But also, I mean, again, there's just so much profits to be made here on Coinbase's incompetence. And there will be competitors that come up and really serve them and hand them the lunch. Because this is a huge demand and this demand will only get bigger and bigger and bigger. It's not going to stop or slow down. It's only going to increase. And so there will be some competition in here. And I'm excited to see it. Until then, we're just going to keep on pointing out these horrible decisions made by Coinbase. Gabriel, divine if you work for a technology company. Does that mean you have to produce a technological product? Yes, it does. Product or service, of course. I think Coinbase is a good model or use or a good sort of representation, you might say, of the conflict of interest that can arise between a centralized service or entity, larger entity, which depends on centralized power, which is aligned with centralized power, as VC money is, as Silicon Valley is, as can be seen in the actions of tech giants like Apple, Dell, Microsoft. These companies, Facebook, Twitter, these companies are all in direct service of empire. And whether they know it or not, that is their current function. And Coinbase is funded by those entities. So naturally, their ethics and viewpoint and entire approach to doing everything, let's say their culture is going to be 180 degrees diametrically opposed to a decentralized freedom-oriented technology like Bitcoin. So I think we're going to see this a lot more with larger companies that are VC funded where they don't make decisions for customers. They don't make decisions that are good for the ecosystem. And I think we all on this panel agree who's going to win that battle in the long run. But this dust stuff, hey, maybe they'll come up with a great tech to actually deal with that at some point down the line. It's conceivable that some- What I think is so interesting, Gabriel, is that we had a comment this morning that there's already a solution not from Coinbase, but from the open source world of Bitcoin. Someone's presented a BIP 131, which would allow you to spend these dust transactions and would help solve this problem. Once again, from the so-called distributed, no one knows who it is, core development team, which isn't really a team and not really a core. So once again, the network provides. Sorry, Gabriel, go ahead. We're moving on to the exit question. Ian DiMartino should Coinbase issue a token to replace the damaged coins? Is that the obvious solution that we're all missing here? No, whenever exchange is released, they're all on token. It's shady as fuck. I mean, I'll shady Bitcoin cash, the way they added it anyways. Other exchanges have tried to do it in various successes, but it always feels dirty, it always feels grimy. Coinbase is supposed to represent some sort of stability in our community. They're totally feeling at that horribly. But you look back at the beginning of the internet and there's companies, 95, you probably would have thought like Altavista or whatever is going to be the biggest search engine on the web. I think Coinbase can recover from this, but they continue to display the incompetence they have shown recently. Then I wouldn't be surprised if someone with confidence would just buy them up and hopefully do it better, allow Google to Altavista. Jack Mollers, is that the end of Coinbase? Will Coinbase just become a brand or should they issue their own coin? Oh boy, what two terrible options? I hope that they don't have to issue their own coin. Although a success story like BitFinex is a little bit inspiring, I do not think that Coinbase is as well run as BitFinex personally, but no, I don't think that we've gotten there yet just my personal opinion. I also don't know all that goes on inside that circus show. So maybe they do. Whatever they need to, I hope they do. I don't want them to bring this industry down with them, but I really, I don't think they need to and I really hope they don't have to. I do like the analogy of the circus because the money goes missing, then you have a token sale which replaces the money. It's like a magic trick. Sometimes you can play magic all by yourself. You don't even need other players. Jeffrey Jones, will the next Coinbase Magic trick be Coinbase Coin? Yeah, I don't think they're going to really need to do that either. I also agree with Jack that these exchanges really are for the most part amateur are still in Bitcoin. It's early days, but yeah, Coinbase is worse than BitFinex is definitely saying something because obviously BitFinex got hacked more times than Coinbase. By the same time, you can just see how things are being run over there. The decisions being made at Coinbase fill over there at BitFinex is from the traditional financial, the traditional financial system on Wall Street. So he really knows a lot more what he's doing. I think that Mr. Brian Armstrong that he's a really, really, really new CEO. And they're just PayPal 2.0 at this point. They have 100% receded into the traditional banking system. And we can try to boycott them if they want, but look, they're adding 100,000 users a day. There's only one of a few solutions in the US. And so we're just going to have to wait for the market to present a better solution. But at this point, they're just PayPal 2.0. Well, no one get behind the idea of Coinbase Coin. Come on, we can put a pre-mine into the middle of it. We'll have a fund for other exchanges that get hacked. When they're in trouble, the Coinbase Coin Foundation can give money to these exchanges. So they don't even have to issue their own coin. And the best part is Coinbase Coin is a fork of Bitcoin. Everybody gets a Coinbase Coin. Gabriel Devon, are you buying Coinbase Coin? No, I'm selling. I'm shorting. But, you know, no, I wouldn't touch that. Here's the thing, you know, people want to get, if they get hacked, they want to get something back. But it's like a short-term fix that's bad long-term, right? So it's just like bank bailouts, right? Where, I mean, it's more voluntary, right? Because a bank bailout was against the will of all the people whose money was being used for that purpose. So in that sense, it's not quite as bad. But it's also, it's got a similar long-term effect, which is poorly run businesses with inadequate security and bad, you know, practices, pro-endemic problems get saved and bailed out. And that's bad for the economy. It's inefficient and it causes wealth to be lost, not created, or destroyed. So this is a bad long-term issue. We should actually wish for these companies to be, to go out of business, to go bankrupt and to be flushed out. But I think what we're going to see is these exchanges, as Vortex pointed out, over the next few years, decentralized exchanges will become better, better, better, better. And then it'll be at the point where you can do quick trades over, you know, with one in two second delays in a completely decentralized manner with products like Jax, you know, Zap wallet or different integrations, APIs using BISCs protocol together with Lightning. So there's a, it's like an on-ramp type of business model that's probably going to kind of go away. And anyways, I think Bitcoin is going to destroy Fiat, so there won't be any need for movement back and forth to it, an old financial system that no longer exists. I'm still not giving up on Coinbase Coin. And if you don't like that, you're going to love this. Issue 3. Insider trading Coinbase and GDACs launched B-Cache trading this week. They did so without warning or noticed and against the public claims of their roadmap, which only promised B-Cache withdrawals. The announcement caused a spike in B-Cache prices. Two and a half hours before it was released. Post on Reddit claiming insider knowledge said B-Cache was coming, while Coinbase promises a full investigation. Meanwhile, the price of B-Cache on GDACs spiked to $9,500 while the exchange was halted before rejoining the rest of the market around $3,000 at Coin. Jack Mollers, your thoughts on this unorthodox Coin launch from Coinbase. I am fired up, so give me a second here. I want to be clear, the insider trading in this industry is going to be tough. Ari Paul talked about this on Twitter and I agree, I do not think it's okay. I don't align with Roger and make a market more efficient and that we should push for it. The thing to deal with, especially in commodities, traditional commodities, even outside of crypto. But crypto in particular, you can have these anonymous exchanges that are registered in Panama where no one, they're not regulated, no one knows what's going on and they can frontrun any altcoin they want. The bigger issue that I have with Coinbase is approach here. Laptop the traditional finance industry in the face as we're starting to bridge worlds. This community has come a long way in coming from the drug lord, terrorist, dirty money, scum money type of reputation. We're starting to get futures products, options products, we're getting ETFs. And the fact, the real big issue here is that GDACs provides 25% of pricing data to the CME. And they went against product roadmap, did not let any customers know any time period beforehand and launched a direct competitor claims it's the real Bitcoin. And the CME's future closed lower than the CBO because of GDACs price manipulation and the fact that they front ran and totally f'd up both the BCH price and the Bitcoin price. So why I'm so upset is as we start to bridge, there's wonderful things that can come from the traditional financial world. I know a lot of the hardcore libertarian Bitcoiners may not, you know, be so welcome to it. But products like an ETF like a futures contract are wildly important. And as long as we're in the early days, can we please get these clients like Coinbase out of the pricing data? I don't want them involved in ETF. I don't want them involved in any futures contracts if they're going to out of the blue launch and coordinate with Roger on coordinated attacks against Coin. I want, and the fact that Brian Armstrong goes, okay, you know what, I understand guys, let me go look into it and fire an intern to make you guys happy. I want the CFTC in there and I want them to really take a look and make sure they're solvent, make sure that they know the rules I'm called for. And one of the more childish slaps in the face gives Bitcoin a terrible name. I'm tired of them. Jeffrey Jones is busting a Bitcoin exchange for insider trading like handing out speeding tickets at the Daytona 500. Yeah, as Jack said, this is going to be really difficult to be able to police this type of space, this type of idea because I mean, traditionally, I guess there isn't really any insider trading laws for 4x, but I guess they're going to have to come up with something because this type of behavior is horrible. And I hope that the market responds first. Like Jack said, I hope that we just completely remove Coinbase from any type of pricing algorithm at all and just act within ourselves. We don't have to bring in the CFTC, but it's just their behavior is so bad at this point that my God, I mean, it's so shady, just huge coordination with the men pool spam, their media barrage, the Bitcoin price correction, I mean, and then the mining difficulty change and then a brand new issuance of miners being sold for B cash from from Bitmain all just all at the same time. I mean, this is just this is just horrible, horrible. There's a line, right? There's a threshold that you got that you cross before you start bringing in all sorts of authorities and things like that. But man, Coinbase is definitely crossed with this one. This one is bad. And I don't see their behavior changing too much anytime soon. Again, Brian Armstrong, I mean, this guy cannot lead this company. I mean, I clearly did some kind of deal with Roger. I mean, this is not good. Again, we've been bashing on Coinbase for years, but again, they've been giving us reason to for years. Again, I just want to just throw a shout out to Bitstamp. I mean, because look, if you guys like it's one in exchange, I mean, I recommend Bitstamp because they activated segment. And they've been doing a lot of good things, implement a lot of implementing a lot of things for that's good for the network as opposed to Coinbase. That's just been one thing after another after another after another not having Bitcoins best interest in mind. And this is just yet another example. And I'm just really, really disappointed again with Coinbase, especially since this is the only kind of really solution for US customers to be able to just quickly add your bank account and buy Bitcoin. But again, there's going to be competition that sees this. The community is tweeting out to competitors and things like that. Like cash, you know, and cash app and other things like that to try to hopefully capitalize on Coinbase's ignorance. It's also worth noting what this does for Coinbase's product. Coinbase used to be the simple way to buy Bitcoin. You could send your friends there and they would come home with some Bitcoin. Now the problem is Coinbase is not simple. Coinbase is a place where you log in and get confused. You're offered now four different coins with more on the way obviously four coins that you don't know about. So you look at Bitcoin, you think it's too expensive, you think maybe Ethereum, maybe Litecoin, maybe this Bitcoin cash sounds a lot like Bitcoin. Who's educating these people? Who's taking responsibility for this Coinbase's lost track of their function? Being a seller of digital gold, being a vault for digital gold, these are great and noble ideas. Being the cryptocurrency, being the everything exchange, not a good idea. Look what happened to cryptocurrency. Gabriel D. Vine is Coinbase the next cryptocurrency. Yes. And I don't share the indignation of my fellow panelists. My reaction is far more on the lulls end of the spectrum. I think this is very entertaining, hilarious. And to be honest, if Bitcoin, the decentralized Bitcoin experiment ecosystem can't fend off some, you know, poorly done mirror attacks, identity attacks, corporate centralized, this is private attacks, you know, name attacks, fact attacks, UX attacks. If we can't survive inside a little bit of insider trading, if we can't survive that type of stuff, we'll never make it past 2019. So in my opinion, I don't give a shit whether the CFTC pays us any attention at all. They will soon be out of budget. So this is kind of like a limited window of where the Fiat still works, but we also have Bitcoin, this sound money, which is in the middle of a, you know, S curve of adoption. So we have this funny window this time where there's still the old, you know, systems working, but yet this new one is also starting. At some point, that window is going to close. I don't think it's going to be that long. Maybe six, seven, eight years. They're not going to have money to pay agents to go after anybody. So we better figure out ways to get around these problems. And I have a feeling that what we call today insider trading will be left off the markets in eight years because what we will have is transparency for everything that you know about. And then, absolutely, and then transparency. So known unknowns is what I'm trying to get out here. You'll know, we don't know who's behind this XYZ asset. So get ready for some insider trading because it's going to happen. So if you're going to trade that thing, you better be ready for insider trading. And that's what we already have now, but it's just paved over with this veneer of respectability and supposed enforcement of these imaginary regulations, which only apply to those who haven't bribed the right people who haven't made the right connections and, you know, gotten these regulators off their backs in a skillful way. So it's going to be fun to watch this time of confusion now, but eventually we're all going to have to deal with the reality of no regulation, nobody here to save you. And it'll be the wonderful developers creating incredible innovations with cryptography that will make it very clear rather than gray area what we have now. What is trusted and what is trustless? What we must trust and place our trust in and we don't know and we might lose everything and what we can trust the mathematics on. All right, we'll go to E&D Martino is up down. Is there no money laundering or is Coinbase a criminal that should be punished by the FCC or the F out of FTC? I think there you go. Yeah. Oh, we can't hear E&D having a microphone issue. I go to Jack and then maybe back to E&D and then we'll plug in the microphone. I get the target. Yeah. Oh, there we go. All right. E&D. So, I'm not that good. FTC based. What do you got? Yeah, super shady. All the evidence I've seen. Mike Johnson, the guy who originally broke the one of the pay coin stories, he was on the fact that the SEC was after them before anyone else. He broke that story. He tweeted out today that he has documents saying that SEC is looking into Coinbase. He hasn't shown me the evidence of that. He hasn't published an article about it yet. So, it's his name on it, but he hasn't been wrong before. So, I want to be surprised when we hear something about that in a month or something. SEC moves slower than anything. So, these documents do exist. I doubt they're about Bitcoin cash, but there may have been some insider training when they added Ethereum or Litecoin. So, I think we're going to see something coming up. But we'll see. All right. Let's move on to the exit question. Which coin will be added to Coinbase next? And will we see a spike in its prices before it happens? Jack Mollers. Unfortunately, I already think we have. I guess it will be ripple. This just feels gross coming out on my health. I can't believe I'm talking about ripple on Coinbase. I think it will be ripple. And I think buying has already started. I think ripple was the only coin yesterday that didn't get pounded into the dirt. So, we'll see the, just a guess. Jeffrey Jones, does the market know will it be ripple? These guys are going to continue to add every single crap coin you can ever think of. And thus, will be their downfall. One of these coins they're going to add is going to screw them over. It's going to be bad. These people are not competent and they will not be able to handle these things. So, you know, I just want to point out again the purposefully confusing user interface that they had on both their desktop and mobile. The only difference was that Bitcoin, the logo, was tilted a little bit. I mean, it was really, really bad. And in the mobile view on some screens, actually, it was all collapsed together and it didn't even actually scale correctly. So, you couldn't even hardly read it. But it's just pretty crazy stuff. I do agree with Gabriel on a bunch of stuff, but I still think that his timeline is a bit aggressive on the destruction of Fiat. That's going to be around, I think, for a little bit longer than he thinks. But again, it's Bitcoin will like a vortex, just freaking suck it all in. And again, I do hope for some market responses to this more than we have more than some kind of regulatory response. It's going to be interesting to see. And yes, just like Jack said, I mean, you're going to always see a spike in a coin before it gets listed on a new exchange because somebody knows there's most of this information in the crypto space is asymmetric. And you're just not going to know and play in simple. Gabriel D. Vine will Eclipse Eification continue. Yeah, I think that Coinbase will be lashing out in every direction, kind of scrambling to try to make their business model work. And what happens when corporations do that is that they are not able to do one thing well. They just do everything poorly. So I completely agree with vortex that that will be their downfall. Ian D Martino, the next coin on Coinbase will be. I think the last time I was here, or maybe it's two times ago, was when they added Ethereum. And yes, the same question. And I was like, no, they're not going to be dumb enough to add more coins. And here we are. There's four freaking coins on it. If they had ripple, I'll seriously puke. But I hope not, man. I just, I don't know. I just hope not. That's all. I'm going to go with Jack on this one. The market has spoken. Ripple will be added. The other coins that didn't go down the other day would be Stellar, the ripple clone, and auger, the prediction market, all of which are rumored and potential could be added to Coinbase. Pumping already. Moving on to issue four, Pineapple Charity. An early Bitcoin miner named Pine has decided to give away most of his Bitcoin wealth. Starting the new Pineapple fund with more than $5,057 Bitcoin, around $86 million to give away to charity. He's even given away more than $8 million so far, inspiring copycat donors who have also donated millions following his donations. Pine's generosity and use of Bitcoin reminds us how useful Bitcoin can be for charitable giving. How with a single address you can receive donations from all over the world. In the season of giving, Jeffrey Jones, which charity or type of charity would you support? What can people do to make the world a better place? Yes, so I mean, especially with the price rise, it's like these where we're over $10,000. I continue to on Twitter tell people to please invest your time and your dollars into privacy-focused projects. Like Tor, that's a really big one, things like that. Open PGP, OpenBSD, there's just so many of these open source projects that I highly recommend. People go ahead and invest in, and whether that's being money or time, these open source projects need you. This is another demonstration of Bitcoin's just extreme charity, extreme giving. This has been going on for years. We've had people donating for food. We've had charities. It's just been on and on. I mean, remember the guy that held up his Bitcoin address like at a football game and got like $20,000 in Bitcoin within a few seconds. This is not going to stop. Bitcoiners will continue to invest back both, both invest back into the system as their profits rise, as well as give back to the community like this. And this is just another example. And I fully expect this to continue to go on. Like I said, even with the Andreas example, I mean, man, he got over a million dollars in Bitcoin within 24 hours from people all around the world and things like that. So this is, I'm really excited to see where these charities go in the future, especially as early as 2018, all these transparency and all this giving and all this price rise. I think we're going to do a lot better things with money in the crypto world than the traditional finance world has. Great answer Jeff. EFF tour open source projects really out of the box thinking here, not just normal charities, things that you support the rest of the year. You just support a more Christmas Gabriel, Devon. So I think it's totally amazing and wonderful. And I completely agree. You know, I recently gave a talk where I was speaking about the cultural impact that sound money will have on our society and a digital internet sound money specifically, which can be moved so quickly as you guys pointed out, is even more bullish for charity in the future. I did touch on charity. The connection there briefly said is that there's an incredible wealth effect that gets created by sound money. But also in addition, today's investments aren't going to pay you as much as yesterday's because your money is worth more than it was yesterday. In other words, you know, for example, buying Bitcoin, you know, buying Bitcoin three years ago was far more effective than it is today. So in if you are already wealthy, you're less incentivized than you are today to make more investments for profit. However, you will want to do things with that money such as funding passion projects, things that you care about, things that give you a return that is non-monetary but personally very significant. And charity is a great example of that where you can feel wonderful about helping people in general, helping projects, helping various things. So I think we're going to see way more of that in the coming years. Probably, you know, it'll be creeping up. But as I mentioned, as things really flush into hyperbic colonization and this wealth effect takes hold, there will be certain people who are like, you know, like this pine guy, he's already there because he was mining early. So he's like, you know what, I got like, he gave away 5,700 Bitcoin or whatever. He's already got thousands more. So he's sitting on half a billion dollars or something and he's like, you know, I don't need all of this. I definitely want to do something great with it. But I'm not going to, I don't need to invest it to make even more. I want to make the world a better place with that money. We're going to see a ton of that in the years to come. The 20s are going to be absolutely full of that. I'm really looking forward to it. Yeah. I really, I mean, people don't know that. Maybe because there's so many new people into the space, but they don't know that there's been charity giving this like Bitcoin for years now from food, you know, to helping people in disasters. I mean, just everything. Bitcoin has been routing money to people who need it for a while now. And yeah, it's a little bit more difficult now with the fees and things. But at the same time, people are still giving. And that's what's really important. And I hope that if anybody has thousands of coins like like like pine date that they really start helping this because like like the story says, there's been a whole bunch of copycats now that are helping out. And that's just going to compound on itself, especially as the price rises. Does anybody else have anything on the topic? Or maybe we'll go to Jack next. Yeah, I mean, this just warms the left side of your chest. Right? This is such a good story. I think more interesting thing rather than, you know, I think we can all agree. It's great is that Bitcoin is issuing one of the bigger wealth transfers we've seen in years. And who wealth is going to, I think, is interesting. These are people that traditionally are not very well off or not in a position to help financially. And I think that the next two decades will get really interesting because the people that are benefiting from this really early tech disruption and this financial revolution, I think are different people than that we're coming up through some of the more traditional financial industry in the 80s and the 90s. And so what those people can do with that money, giving the charities, funding, open source development, all types of new ideas and cool things. I think the world will look a lot different in 20 years. And that's because technology and the world is changing, but also the people that can fund that change are different than those 20 years ago. So I think it's great and exciting. It's really fun to watch. I'd agree with Jack here. I think one of the things we're looking for is a new patron, a new Lorenzo Dometici, someone who can add to science and add to art and add to all these things and really spend their wealth in a new and dramatic way. And I think when I see a lot of the Bitcoin people that I know becoming well off, I see the future patrons. I see people who are going to save their money, spend it on other people, they're not just going to waste it on luxury items or mausurottis, things like that. But let's move on to the exit question. What is the greatest use of Bitcoin for charity? Hoodie the homeless, Sean's outpost, BitGive Wells in Africa, the Unsung app, or the new pineapple fund, Jeffrey Jones. It's just all amazing. I mean, I'm just, it really does like Jack said, just warm your heart. You know, this is what Bitcoin is about is changing the world, changing money, changing money. Therefore, changing the world. And again, this isn't going to stop. We're slow down anytime soon, especially as the price continues to rise. We're going to see a whole new class. And again, this is the world's largest wealth transfer that human history has ever seen. Everyone before us, you know, it's gotten bigger and bigger and bigger each time. This one is no different. This will be the largest. And it could be a digital renaissance to the kind of people that are getting enriched or the kind of people who do support the EFF. And what was once $25 donation, I think of myself as buying them pens for their legal cases, things like that. Could be a $25,000 donation in the future. People who have the wealth deciding what they want to support. Yeah, I just like to call it a global financial renaissance. You know, this is what's happening all over the world. A brand new renaissance, a brand new group of people who with big, huge ideas that can now actually have the technology to capitalize on them. And the renaissance was one of the best times in history, Gabriel Devon. Oh, not so sure about the EFF, but I think they don't necessarily think clearly on many issues. But yeah, I mean, I think basically we've got the situation of a bunch of cypherpunk anarchists with billions of dollars. That has never been the case before. So it should be really interesting to see what they fund with it. I think Jeffrey really has his finger on the pulse when he talks about OpenPGP, OpenBSD, these open source projects besides Bitcoin that have been around for many years and are very underdeveloped. Some of those are already being fleshed out in amazing ways. I think a lot of Bitcoin users are still holding and waiting for things to progress even further. But once there's a lot, you know, many, many millionaires in this space, those projects are going to be flooded, not only with wealthy programmers who don't need to get a job, but also donations. It's going to be great. So many bug bounties. Oh, it's going to be great. I don't remember the exact software, but I remember the time a guy that made one of the upgrade things for like PGP, he made one of the patches or something. He didn't have any funds and he told everyone, I'm going to have to shut this down to days later. They'd raised all the funds for years and years of development. And like Gabriel saying, the more Bitcoin millionaires we have, the more likely that you're going to get those funds and then the world is going to get to use that software. Ian D. Martino, the best use of Bitcoin for charity. Yeah, I just wanted to say real quick about free Ross campaign. You know, I think I've mentioned them every time I come on here. Today Lynn just tweeted out that she went to go visit Ross on Christmas for the first time and the prison was locked down. So she didn't get to see, she's not going to get to see him on Christmas and all the other families got sent away. So I hope pine or any of these new Bitcoin millionaires will, you know, send money to her so she can make his Christmas a little better in there. But you know, it's great. It's just seen how Bitcoin gets reinvested in itself every time there's a big spike like this. It's sort of a self-feeding machine. You know, this wealth is basically creative and then gets reinvested into which makes better products, which creates more wealth. And, you know, as much as we like to talk about how many things are wrong with the industry, it was so much harder to get into Bitcoin, you know, even just four or five years ago. So, you know, we're moving the right direction and that's its own form of charity is just reinvested within Bitcoin because you could just take out your 30 million dollars that you made and just go live a nice life or do whatever you want. So, giving back to the Bitcoin community is always a good thing. Well, that's one of the things we were talking about earlier this week that a lot of the Bitcoin developers could just retire and sit on a beach. But instead, they want to work on Bitcoin. They want to work on this science project. They want to improve it. They want to add their mark to it. Whatever it is, they have more desire than just money and sitting on a beach. Jack Mollers, your favorite Bitcoin charity. Oh, I thought all the panelists did a fantastic job. I do not disagree with one point. If I were in charge of the $86 million, I would put some towards a development, things like lightning. There are only 10 lightning developers full time on this really important protocol. I mean, core as great as it is is forever understaffed for how important this technology could be for the future of our world. So, you know, Bikkiv is great, Connie Glyppi's great, I think they're all great. And I would also love to see some of this open source development that's been mostly voluntary that's issued like hundreds of billions of dollars at this point. I would like to see some of those people with some of these, you know, great wealth transfers, some of this money behind them would be cool to see. Definitely shout out to Connie Glyppi and Bikkiv, shout out to Pineapple and his new project. I also want to mention Sean's outpost and of course Jason King and the Unsung app. I would give the money to Unsung. They're working on kind of an Uber for leftover food. If you're a restaurant, you have a pot full of spaghetti, you use the app. Somebody comes, picks it up, boxes it up, drops it off to somebody else who gives it out on the street to the homeless. Everyone who uses the app gets points for doing this. So, it's gamified helping the homeless. It's an interesting idea from Unsung. So, check that out. But it's about the end of the show here. So, we're going to move on to prediction or a story of the week. Gabriel D. Vaughner, are you ready with a prediction or a story of the week? Yeah, just a quick shout out to my buddy, Ride the Lightning at Medium Squeeze on Twitter. Great guy. Story of the week. I got an email from a friend of mine from a friend of his, so forward from India. What was described? What really kind of blew my socks off? And it was the following. Everybody in what was the city? Hyderabad, I believe? Not just in Hyderabad, but also in the villages in the surrounding countryside and towns. Everyone, including their grandma, is on their smartphones. You know, I'm assuming their Android just phones that pretty much everyone has there now, is buying crypto. A lot of all coins, a lot of Bitcoin. Everyone is talking about it. It's a huge subject of discussion. It's all over the television. It's all over the newspapers. All sorts of all coins and Bitcoin are everywhere, you know, along with gold, maybe, hey, don't buy gold by Bitcoin. It's like completely sweeping like a fever in India. And it was very gratifying for me because I called that. I said, well, geez, there's so many technically competent people there and so many developers that I think India will be the next really big hotspot in the first, you know, developing country to really adopt this stuff. So that's that's really a way. It's also worth noting the Indian culture. They just seem to be thinkers and scientists. They work on figuring things out. I know it's a generic thing to say, but it is a really great point for Bitcoin. India really could take off. In D Martino, story of the week or prediction, you're feeling green over there. It's not easy to agree. I don't know why I think I've been slowly turning more green throughout the show. I don't know what's going on there. It's not going to be night vision mode. There's some kind of a, as long as there's not a red dot, you're fine. Yeah, I was thinking about the green. I forgot to think about a prediction. My prediction actually is that more is coming into this coin base and it's just going to get worse and worse. You know, at the beginning of this podcast, I thought kind of good about them, but throughout the past hour or so, I've been thinking about it and I think more is coming. They're acting really weird. It's just really shady. It just seems too familiar. And so I think more is coming. I still root for them. They remind me of Darth Vader. They're still good inside them. There's hope, but they do take a lot of bad actions and one wonders why over and over again. And now maybe this UTXO thing explains it. Jack Mollers, you have a prediction or a story of the week. I'm going to treat this Bitcoin new show as the one that rounds up 2017. I don't know if there will be one next week and I don't know if I'll be on it. But my story is just what a year it has been. We've gone up over a thousand percent in price. The technology has evolved with things like Segway. We get Elizabeth Stark on a major platform talking about the future of payment processing in a peer to peer manner. My story is just to pick winners out there. What a year it has been and I've never been more excited for an upcoming year. So that's my story. All right. Jeffrey Jones, story of the week. Just a couple, I guess. I love how Nick Zavo came out and called Bitcoin Cash a centralized sock puppetry. Sorry, centralized sock puppetry. I mean, it's just great. I mean, this is this guy is hugely up there with like Adam back, you know, cited on the white paper itself. You want to talk about, so she's vision. Well, he's he was cited in the white paper and still one of the most one of the pioneers in this space and in the crypto space and just absolutely wonderful to see him come out and actually say actually speak out against be cash and really call it out for what it is, which is the centralized freaking attack. You know, they want to be Bitcoin. They don't want to just be Bitcoin cash. And so that's pretty, pretty bad and that's we're going to find out what happens with that next year. And then Snowden released a pretty interesting app. It's pretty cool. Well, what is the name of safe haven? It's called and it's pretty interesting. It allows you to just be install install the software on an a burger Android phone and kind of have that phone be a spy for you. So it can be automatically take pictures around. You can leave it in your hotel room, see if anybody came in. It's kind of it's kind of like it's interesting. It also protects your files though as well. So it's it's pretty interesting. Privacy app. I'm still looking still looking at it and playing with it. But it I definitely recommend people download it and check it out. It's just great that we're going to finally hopefully see some more privacy focus apps because like signal and things like that. They're just too few and in between. We need more and so this is Snowden helping out and I think it's great. I recommend people check it out. And Jack's right to question it. But we will be back next week with the Bitcoin Group year end view in spectacular. If I can find some people to join me, it might be last minute and plan like this. Like always, but we will be giving our thoughts on the entire year in review next year. Nick Sabo was not cited in the white paper. I just want to point that out. That's actually one of the reasons why they think that Nick Sabo might be Satoshi Nakamoto because he created Bit Gold. So yeah, Bit Gold. That's why I thought that's why I thought you mentioned it. It's strangely. It's one of those things where you don't want to decide yourself. And if you make Satoshi's vision, you should just ask him personally. That's how I get it. I just go straight to the source. I say Nick, what's up? Tell me the truth. But any more for this on today, anything else anyone needs to add? Nick is Satoshi. Spoiler alerts. At least he's on the team. We don't know. Now he kind of likes Ethereum. So I kind of doubt it. I don't know. Well, we'd just like to thank everybody for watching. We had a 1,070 live viewers. Thanks to everybody for giving us a thumbs up and a share. If it's your first time here, please subscribe down below. We have new shows almost every day for you here on the World Crypto Network. And check out the Bitcoin News Show with Jeffrey Jones Sunday at noon, Pacific time. Coming up soon. And we've got Andy Hoffman's. Got a great interview this week with Francois Poulond, I think. And we've got some other Bitcoin group. And today in Bitcoin shows, we had Rhett Crater in this week with a couple other guests. So that's a good stuff to watch. I actually won't be this Sunday. I'm going to take a break. And that was our Frances Poliet. By the way, Frances Poliet. Poliet. Poliet. Poliet. Poliet. Poliet. Poliet. But maybe we'll do a special Christmas Eve show then just for Christmas Eve's sake. Well, he's French Canadian. Okay. The Italians, French Canadian. All my accents are missed up. We're running out of time. The viewers are starting to tune out 999 live viewers and falling. So until next time. Bye. Bye.