The Bitcoin Group, the American original. For over the last 10 seconds, the sharpest satoshi's, the best bitcoins, the hardest cryptocurrency talk. We'd like to welcome our panelists, Blake Anderson, cryptographic economist. Hi everybody, thanks for having me. Jimmy Song, Bitcoin developer. Hey everybody, good to be here. Toned Vays from Liberty Life Trail. Subguise coming to you alive from St. Peter's Berg Russia. And I'm Thomas Hunt from the World Crypto Network. Just reminding you to give us a thumbs up and a share so that more people will find the show. And if it's your first time here, please subscribe down below. Moving on to issue one. The price of Bitcoin is $4,050. Seems to be falling. The price of B cash is $618. Moving on to issue one, Bitcoin in space. Everyone has always wondered what block stream was up to with their epic $21 million seed round and $77 million series A. And now we know. Block stream is picked up what was once Jeff Garzik's idea of allowing people to use Bitcoin anywhere in the world by broadcasting it from space. While Garzik planned to develop an independent network of satellites, block stream is simply renting time on existing ones. Blake Anderson, how excited are you for this technological tour de force? I think it's pretty cool. I think that redundancy and failover networks are good in terms of Bitcoin especially. And some people are saying it's not perfect and it's not as secure as an SPV wallet and stuff like that. I think that with this early stage of having this new stuff, it's cool to experiment with it and try to make it better and to build on it. I think that Jeff's idea for implementing some of this satellite stuff was going to use CubeSat hardware. I think that more powerful hardware makes more sense. So I can kind of see it from Jeff's side where he feels like, this is my baby. But at the same time in a market, the instantiation of an idea is 90% of what makes it work or not. So I'm really excited for a block stream to be going in this direction. It looks like some of their investors are saying, yeah, hey, we just want to return. So we don't want you to go out to all this science stuff. We think maybe it's more show-boding than it is science-based. But I personally disagree with that perspective. I think that trying to make a big auxiliary or backup or failover network, even if there are certain centralized issues with it at some choke points, I think that moving that direction and growing it out and creating more redundancies is a good direction. So I'm pretty proud of a block stream for this project. Part of the problem with Garzick's claim is that he's no longer working on the project. So if you're no longer working on something, you don't have hold over it. Jimmy Song. Well, it's a very cool project. And having more channels to verify your blockchain is always a good thing. And this is another channel. And it's not one of the arguments that people always bring up on zero heads or whatever is, OK, if the internet goes down, then you still have your goal, but you don't have your Bitcoin. Well, that's not true anymore. We have a satellite. You just need to have some sort of equipment to receive the blocks at least. Maybe you won't be able to transmit necessarily. But I'm sure they're working on something for that aspect as well. And that would be sort of a nice synergy if you can have some other technology to broadcast your transactions and another to receive all your blocks and transactions in the mempool. I'm impressed with their execution. I've heard that Litecoin wants to get in on this as well. And I'm sure other projects will want to do the same depending on how well this goes. And maybe become sort of a thing for projects that have grown up to a certain point to say, hey, we're now in space. I would love to buy a unit that can receive this signal, especially if it's under $500. I'll go and set it up. Blockstream, you've got to make this happen, right? Like Samsung, Mal is a marketing genius. I'm sure you can come up with some sort of little box or something that has all the parts that you need. So a blockstream, you have to make this happen. I want to receive my Bitcoin data on a satellite dish, just like on top of my house or something, or even in an RV or whatever. I want my Bitcoin on the road, baby. All right. Excellent points. And maybe they could send the outgoing transactions via carrier pigeon or perhaps Raven. It works really well in Game of Thrones. And otherwise, I don't know about Jimmy's idea of altcoins in space. Does it sound that good to me? Tones, what do you think about Bitcoin in space? Am I the only one that's totally not excited about this? And I don't really have no idea why they're doing it or what the real purpose is. If we lose electricity on the planet, we got way bigger problems than what the hell the price of Bitcoin is. Like, I don't know. I'm just like this. This isn't all that exciting to me. I don't know why it isn't. It just isn't. Like, what's exciting to me is putting a minor in space that is using direct solar energy for electricity. That would be exciting to me. That can actually revolutionize something. So I'm not even sure how are they going to be distinct down with radio waves with what? Like, I'm still waiting for my damn satellite phone so I can travel the world and get more than like, like, I finally got an international SIM card out of the US. I'm in Russia. And my SIM card is giving me 250 kilobytes per second, which is better than nothing. It's enough to run telegram. It's enough to run, you know, check Twitter, barely enough to run Tinder. But I like, you know, definitely not enough to run video. Like, how about working on some cell phone technology so I can make phone calls and I can actually look at the internet while I'm in the middle of nowhere, right? And doing it for Bitcoin transactions, like it, I don't know. I'm not excited. I don't know. I'm not. So there you go. I don't really have much else to comment. I'd rather a blockchain spend their money, you know, in this planet, not on other planets. Let's put it all in. A very last century answer from tone who would prefer to answer phone calls than talk to people in space. I agree with Blake's idea. I think that if you look at Blockstream and you say, it was founded by a lot of Bitcoin holders. And there's a lot of Bitcoin holders at the company. The goal is to make Bitcoin go up. So if everyone in the world could access Bitcoin, even in Africa or the back, out back of Australia, even in random places in Russia, I believe that Blockstream's theory would be the value of Bitcoin will go up. So it's good for Bitcoin. So Blockstream succeeds at the goal. That's the way I would see it. And there's pizza. I'll go ahead. I was just going to say real quick. I'd rather get internet to those places. Because if those places actually get internet, then Bitcoin will do its thing on the internet, right? I mean, like in order for Bitcoin to work, you just need internet. And those places need internet way more than they need Bitcoin. But they gave Blockstream money to work on Bitcoin projects. That's not exactly fair. OK. Come on. All right. Let's go. Blake, do you have one more thing to say? Do you want to move on to the exit question? Let's move on. All right. The exit question, Blockstream will succeed in their quest to bring Bitcoin to every single person on the globe. Yes or no, Blake Anderson. OK. So what they've done so far, I mean, it seems like, yeah, they're striding towards yes. They have the coverage of it. It looks like Europe and parts of the Middle East and America now. And then the phase two seems to be getting a lot of the rest of the stuff. So hopefully by phase two or three, that's going to be widespread coverage. Jimmy, so on. No, there's always somebody that's like living underground or something that they're not going to be able to get to some more people or something like that. You're never going to cover everybody, right? But they'll do a good job. I think they'll cover a significant portion if they can find the business not all that works for them. I'm really hoping for a satellite kit, Blockstream. OK. I want the satellite kit. I wanted it in my house. I want to review it on video. OK. That's my pitch to them. A very literal answer from Jimmy Song. Tony Vays. Wait, what was the question again? Will Blockstream succeed to bring Bitcoin to everyone on Earth? I guess it's not really up to Blockstream, right? I don't know. I'm sure. All the ones building the satellites that allow people to use Bitcoin everywhere. So they would be the ones letting people use Bitcoin everywhere. Sure. I don't have a satellite phone, but sure. The answer is yes. Now, can somebody get Tony a satellite phone moving on to issue 2? Issue 2, Bitcoin, 6,000? As I've said before, all of the big finance guys are now suddenly into Bitcoin. And they love to make predictions. Tom Lee, founder of FundStrat Global Advisors, is incredibly bullish for Bitcoin, predicting a high of 6,000 by 2018, and perhaps 25,000 by 2020. Jimmy Song, do you agree with his bullish analysis? Does Bitcoin have nowhere to go but up? Still muted, Jimmy Song, but very dramatic. I agree, but not for the reason stated in the article. I mean, I believe that there's a network effect happening right now that's sort of causing the price to go up. There's a lot of people going on. And it's one of those things where, the more people there are, the more valuable the network is. And there's a lot of people that have been coming in recently. You can look at the statistics on Coinbase or any of the exchanges, especially foreign ones in Korea and Japan. They're getting tremendous users, tremendous numbers of users coming in. So when you have that network effect, of course, it's going to go up. So 6,000 definitely feels possible. I also want to say that I was probably wrong in my analysis about six months ago that all this drama would cause a huge decline in price. And I think I was wrong. I think Vinny Lingam realizes he was wrong as well. Bitcoin is one of those things that gains from this order. What Neseet to Lebb would call anti-fragile. And all this drama that's happened in the past three months, it's been nothing but good for the price. So I mean, in many ways, there's more drama to be had in the next six months. So I see that as a positive. And I see higher prices as definitely possible. Bring on the chaos. All right, more chaos for tone Vays. Well, now that I'm seeing every analyst and their mother predicting these high Bitcoin prices, it really wants to meet. It really is pushing me to be the contrarian once again, because I'm usually the contrarian. And that's one of the things that's really, really useful in this business. Now, I still think Bitcoin is going to go up, but like our next story will discuss, that B Cash stuff is a bit problematic. It really, really is. We'll get to it in the next story. Now, Bitcoin is still $4,000. I mean, we all got a little bit greedy. We all saw a 4X multiple of Bitcoin in the last eight to nine months. And now we're all greedy and we want more. In reality, Bitcoin has gone up more than enough. It has still even at current prices. It's now double what I expected it to reach at any point this year when I gave my prediction at the end of last year. So Bitcoin is still doing very well. And Jimmy had a good point saying that Bitcoin really gains momentum from the sorter. What frustrates me is that the mainstream media always writes the worst possible stuff about Bitcoin. And they're always on the wrong side of things. But Bitcoin will get through this. There is still only one Bitcoin. Again, more on this in the next story. I don't care about these predictions from guys on Wall Street. They don't know anything. They just got here. I mean, some of us have been here for a while. We have a much better idea what's going on. So I don't pay attention to anything they say over there. I'm still waiting for at least one of them to give somebody a call from this space. I'm not the only analyst in Bitcoin. There are a few others that are reasonable and kind of think about things rationally. But yeah, I mean, it's just hype. You write an article that you forget about Bitcoin and then the next hype cycle. They'll write not an article. So it's just another headline. I don't think those guys know that much. Blake Anderson. That's tough to know what it's going to do. I mean, Bitcoin goes up and down a lot. That's why when people are talking about, yo, I trade Bitcoin and I trade up and down. And I've made pretty good money. But when you compare how much those traders have made versus long-term holders, usually the holders are coming out as the king of the stack. So I think that in terms of Bitcoin going up a lot, like as a macro rule, that's kind of, you can just depend on that over long enough time horizons. But if you try to get really, really down into the minutia and focus on these, you know, ephemeral knife-catching games of trying to trade Bitcoin back and forth, I mean, you can really, really, really get wiped out. So I mean, I think that Bitcoin moves up anti-fragile-y, like Nessim and Jimmy were talking about. And I think that when there's anti-fragile stuff that's bringing focus on it, just like there was recently with the global kind of economic dial back when we were starting getting into a fight with Russia, I think all those things contributed to this big pushup. And in terms of when those types of things are going to happen in concert, that's kind of hard to predict. So, you know, that's why I encourage, you know, dollar cost average into Bitcoin on long horizons, gift the exposure that you need. And you'll do pretty well that way with a pretty good grip on mitigating the risk the best that you can if you keep your keys. Moving on to the exit question, the price of Bitcoin, this time next week, higher or lower, Jimmy's home. I wish it was tracking the number of followers I had, like it was for a long time. It's been a while since I'd been asked this question, but I'm gonna say higher. Tone vase. I believe last week I went against the panel and said lower. I think I was right, right? Considering we just dropped. Just today, yeah. So, I think at this point next week, we should be higher. But again, I'm taking like the low end today, so we're about 4,000 right now. So I think we will be higher at this time next week, but not by much. I think Bitcoin is gonna slow down for a little bit. I still think we will get to 5,000 before the next alt coin separates from Bitcoin. But next week, we'll be up, but not by much. Blake Anderson. Yeah, I'm gonna say a push for the tendency to go higher and just, you know, hotel, something that doesn't matter. And I'm sticking with higher. We have 959 live viewers. Thanks so much for watching. If everyone's gonna give us a thumbs up and a share, that'll help more people find the show. Moving on to issue three, B Cash, profitable. The price of B Cash is surging, reaching $500 and creating intriguing incentives for miners as it is now 2% more profitable to mine the B Cash chain than the original Bitcoin. Additionally, if the difficulty of B Cash continues to drop, it could be twice as profitable to mine B Cash instead of Bitcoin. Tone Vays, your thoughts on this stunning reversal. Oh, man. I'm like double checking the profitability. Oh, wow. Yeah, let me not even say it. So it's actually according to cash.coin.dance. It's actually 22% more profitable to mine the B Cash. That doesn't take into account reward, I mean, the transaction fees, which are significantly more on Bitcoin. So I think there's a fork.law has a better estimate, which is about like a three or four percent advantage for Bitcoin Cash at the moment. Really, so the 22% becomes 3% when you factor in fees? Yeah, because Bitcoin has about one and a half Bitcoins per block. Bitcoin Cash has like less than $50 US, and fees per block. Yeah, but there's so much. Yeah. No, but that makes no sense mathematically, right? I mean, one and a half coins is not one fifth of the block, right? One and a half coins is about 11, 12, 13% something like that. And yeah, so it's about eight times easier to mine Bitcoin Cash. So you have to multiply the fees by eight. So that's like $400 and equivalent. But anyway, Bitcoin, Bitcoin is a lot better. Okay, so I think this is a weird metric to use. First of all, on that list, there need to be all of the short 256 coins in order to see which other ones are even more profitable to mine with the same equipment versus BitCash. Now, I understand that liquidity matters because you can easily sell that BitCash for BitCoin. And I have no idea who's supporting BitCash, but they must be, well, at the moment, they seem to be making money and people are allowing them to make money. It is kept aligned by 90% unknown. And according to estimates by fork.lo, they have burned more than $4 million in opportunity cost to get to this point. Burning $4 million in opportunity cost is actually very, very minimal. That's nothing. I mean, if you assume that Roger Veer still has a hundred thousand Bitcoin, that's $400 million, right? So that's a one person alone losing one percent of their wealth is really not a big deal whatsoever, right? So the $4 million in opportunity cost seems extremely small. I would have really thought it would have been way higher than that. So my views on BitCash, okay? Well, obviously I was wrong, right? I mean, I thought this thing would be $5 by now. I didn't think people would take it seriously, but I've been wrong on this stuff before. Like I thought Ethereum was complete nonsense and should never have any value. And it does have a value not to mention or all of the spawn that Ethereum has given us, right? That's being built on top of it. So not to mention the competitors to Ethereum, right? So I mean, all of this is in a massive bubble with absolutely no foundation whatsoever. Bitcoin actually has a foundation, right? I mean, 90% of 95% of the mining is still on Bitcoin and we know who's mining. We know who's programming Bitcoin, right? Our decentralized group of core developers. And we pretty much know who's using Bitcoin as the ATM structure. I haven't heard things like BackPage, things like the gambling websites, accepting BitCash yet. And even if they do accept BitCash, it doesn't really matter. A lot of them accept Bitcoin and BitCoin, sorry, like coin and like Manero. And then it bumped those old coins a little bit, but I don't see them challenging Bitcoin anytime soon. So I'm still, you know, this BitCash thing is a fad. And I don't think it's going to last. Now, let me change the discussion a little bit. So let's talk about what is good about, well, what's good for BitCoiners with the existence of BitCash and what's bad for BitCoiners in the existence of BitCash? So I guess the bad, let's talk about the bad first, right? So if BitCash, and this was always my fear, if BitCash becomes a viable coin, kind of like I expected from Ethereum Classic. And I was wrong on that too, right? I always thought Ethereum Classic would be at par with Ethereum and they would have approximately the same mining hash rate and approximately the same price clearly didn't happen, right? So if that happens to BitCoin, right? Like if B Cash actually makes it to par with Bitcoin, and mining is actually split almost 50, 50, and the price is approximately the same, and we actually have two Bitcoins. That is a huge problem, huge problem. Even if that happened with any other coin, right? This isn't really specific to B Cash. Like if Manero or Litecoin made it to that level, we have a problem because it makes no sense to have multiple blockchains. You really want mining to be securing one chain. And so that makes no sense to me personally. And also, it means that the store of value property that Bitcoin had doesn't really exist, right? Like people say, oh, blockchains, they're like browsers, you can just switch. No, no, you can't. I've switched browsers three times this year. I've never considered moving all of my Bitcoin into a shit coin, right? But we're talking about real value here. We're talking about real investments. And it's also not like switching from my space to Facebook. It's not like switching from one streaming medium to another, right? Like, yeah, I was watching Netflix, but now I'm going to start watching some Netflix competitor because they have just as many movies in the same movies. It's not the same thing. So if one of these things manages to pull even with Bitcoin, that's a huge problem. The store of value property is gone. The fact that anyone can just make money out of finair. And it wasn't this organic movement that people would blood sweat and tears into for free. And now it's worthless. All of that goes away. As far as I'm concerned, the blockchain, I would pull on my current blockchain's debt. So that's the bad news. And I don't expect that to happen, by the way. That's the worst case scenario I'm not expecting. Here's the good news. The good news is actually plenty. I know I'm going on a little bit, but that's why I took easy on the previous questions. The good news is kind of good. OK? I honestly can't freaking wait until the segment 2x people try to replicate what Bcash did. And then we have three of them. Then we have two stupid and one Bitcoin, right? I can't wait for that because all of the Bcash people are going to put seriously on the spot. And that community would have to completely split. Again, you have something like Bitcoin.com, which is clearly supporting Bcash. I mean, you have to be like, deafblind and dumb, not to realize that Bitcoin.com is completely supporting Bcash. But then on record saying that they're only going to support Bcash 100%. If the 2x part of the segment 2x does not happen. So what does that mean? So right now they're only supporting Bcash 90% and they'll go 100% if 2x don't happen. But what if 2x happens? Do all of the Bcash supporters now flip flop over to segment 2x? Or a segment 2x can try to put segment on to Bcash? Like, I can't wait to see that clusterfuck going down in October, November. So that's another good thing that's coming out of it. And also, like Eric Lombardo said, maybe we shouldn't be scared of hard forks. Either Bitcoin makes it and survives, or we cut our losses early and go back to the pre-blockchain world. So I'm not upset over it. I know I've sold all of my Bcash. I sold it as soon as I got my hands on it. And I'm not upset about that. And even if Bcash makes it all the way up, and let's say it's 0.5 of a Bitcoin, people are going to be laughing at me that I missed out. No, I didn't. I'm happy I made my 10%. And if we, this is going to be make or break for Bitcoin, I think Bcash is still nonsense. There's nobody developing on it. It's just a pump and dump. It's no different than any other pump and dump of a shit coin. And the only difference is you've got some big money behind it that's able to pay. It's no different than Zcash. It's no different than any other VC-funded private coin. We don't know who's buying it. We don't know who's developing it. You know nothing. Or you know is that you think you can make money. And to all the people that are now telling me that I gave bad advice, I'm not here to make you money. I do in these videos pretty much for free on my channel and on this channel. My job is not to make you money. My job is to provide analytics. My job is to think about the situation and provide my opinion. And my professional opinion in this space is that Bcash is technological garbage. Now whether it can surpass the price of Bitcoin is irrelevant because it is technological garbage. And I cannot recommend holding Bcash for longer than it takes you to get your private keys out and sell it and get Bitcoin, which is supported by real development. So no, the sound advice was not to hold on to Bcash and hedge. You know, it's almost the same as me telling you, well, maybe you should hedge Bitcoin with one coin. If you put it in early and you could have got now, then you could have been friends with Rooja and you could have gotten really rich and that's your hedge to Bitcoin. No, holding Bcash is not a hedge to Bitcoin. If Bcash survives, then blockchain's failed in my opinion. So the right move to do is to get rid of it. And if you're wrong, then the movement didn't work, but I'm not expecting that. Bitcoin will survive and I'm betting on that. Blake Anderson. Yeah, I think that what Tone is saying, like a dollar cost averaging strategy into Bitcoin would be suboptimal because you can't depend on the value proposition of Bitcoin cash. Like you can and other things, so just blindly putting in lots of money and not paying attention. It doesn't seem like a good risk versus reward to Tone. He's saying, you know, get rid of it and focus on long-term investments in seven-year-old even. So I mean, I can't really disagree with that. I think that Tone does a lot of technical analysis, which is available, but I don't know that everybody knows that Tone, I think more often holds than he makes trades. Is that appropriate to say Tone? Well, no, I actually don't trade Bitcoin. I just hold Bitcoin. I am an arbitrage trader. I do not. I've had 10 years of trading, picking a direction. And I don't want that headache and I don't like the trade like that anymore. Yeah, I trade non-directionally with arbitrage. If I take a trade, I have a 99% confidence. I will make 10 to 15% on that trade. Otherwise, I don't make a trade. And for anybody who doesn't know what arbitrage is, arbitrage refers to striking a series of matching deals almost instantaneously. We're in the clear and you make a greater percentage of what you had. You can Wikipedia arbitrage and look at it if you want to learn more about that. Yeah, in terms of mining, I think that mining is interesting because mining depends heavily on how long the horizon for holding your Bitcoin lasts after you've mined it. In my opinion, the mining companies do the best of the ones that have the longest horizon that they possibly can. They're able to hold that coin for as long as they need to. And then retroactively, the mining work that they did becomes more valuable as the price of Bitcoin goes up. So there's a lot of important factors to consider. But at the same time, I think that some people are like, well, you shouldn't talk about this. You shouldn't say that. I think that talking about it is almost kind of like narrating like a horse race, being like, you know, butter cups in the lead, not as personally, just because you're describing the objective factors of how things are competing. I don't think that that's bad. I think that that should be the starting point of a conversation. And I always get worried about this kind of desire to note platform in any space. And I especially don't want that to happen in this space. So I think it's good that we talk about these things and enhance them out. And it can be difficult on Twitter, which is why I'm grateful for panel shows and stuff like that for people to more thoroughly articulate what they mean that is possible in 140 characters sometimes. All right, Jimmy Song. All right, so a few things about Bitcoin Cash. First of all, it's the large bump in the last day or two has come largely out of Korea and Japan. And this is a pattern that I've seen with new people that come into Bitcoin is that they often feel like they missed out on a lot of the games, right? They know about their uncle or their cousin that got into Bitcoin at like 20 bucks. And they got like 200 X returns. And they want the same for themselves. And what typically happens is they look for other opportunities like altcoins in order to make up those games. They want the same sort of returns. And with Bitcoin Cash, what's interesting is that it's very similar to Bitcoin. Like it's almost in every way the same as Bitcoin, except for like three things. They don't have replaced by fee. They don't have segwit and they have larger blocks. And I guess there's like a difficulty change as well. But it's very, very close to Bitcoin. So I think what's happening is that a lot of people are saying, okay, well, I missed out on Bitcoin, but there's this new thing Bitcoin Cash that's 10 times less cost. And I may have the same gains. And I think that's kind of what's happening. I believe there's a lot of other people that have done the same thing with other altcoins as well. But I mean, compared to other altcoins, let's face it. Bitcoin Cash is probably a lot better, right? Relatively speaking, because it has a lot of the same code as Bitcoin. It has a few differences obviously, but obviously those differences will grow in time. But it's in essence like a pretty good altcoin as far as altcoins go. Now, like there's some other stuff with profitability and stuff. There's in about 200 blocks on Bitcoin Cash, we're going to have a difficulty adjustment. And that is going to lower difficulty by somewhere around 30%, 40%. That's going to obviously make the profitability go a lot higher. So right now, it's about even maybe Bitcoin Cash as a slight advantage. But what's going to happen is that Bitcoin Cash is going to have a much larger advantage. Of course, this advantage is temporary because it will go that adjustment, depending on how many miners move over to Bitcoin Cash, it will only last 2016 blocks. So after those 2016 blocks, it will adjust again. But during those 2016 blocks, it may end up that Bitcoin has a lower hash rate because some miners have moved over. Now, whether or not they do that is a big question because it's not just about price. Like as Tom was saying, there's liquidity to consider. But there's also some other stuff like the fact that miners have to wait 100 blocks before they can spend their coin base award. And in Bitcoin, that takes about 17 hours or something like that. On Bitcoin Cash, it's going to take like 35 hours, at least at current rates. Though if more miners come in, then that might change as well. So there's that. And there's also the fact that exchanges oftentimes don't take Bitcoin Cash unless you have like 20 confirmations. So the liquidity, not just in terms of the order book, but in terms of the process of getting it to a currency that you like, is going to take a while. And that may factor into whether or not a miner switches over. As far as the price goes, there's always been sort of rumors of a price-plunge protection team for almost every all coin. And this is no exception. There are rumors that maybe Rogers buying or whatever. It may also be people that feel like they missed out on Bitcoin. But one thing I will point out is that if this ends up with a lower hash rate on Bitcoin, this actually may be beneficial come to X. Because if Bitcoin has a lower hash rate to begin with when the 2X4 happens in November, then you may end up in a situation where it's faster to adjust to get to the 2016 blocks in order to do a difficulty adjustment later on. So this may be a case of a little bit of short-term pain, but long-term it may actually end up becoming a lot more beneficial to Bitcoin as a result of some miners moving over. Go ahead, Tom. Hey, I just want to kind of one more thing I forgot. Jimmy, you also made a good point that the buying seems to be coming out of Japan and South Korea, which, again, are a lot of point fingers, but those are the markets created by Bitcoin.com and huge big block supporters. So that's not really surprising. And again, this is why there is this suspicion that Roger is that buyer of last resort, being living in Japan and he is in South Korea pretty often as well. So there is a lot of overlap between the two. So one more thing I was going to say that's kind of good. It's kind of annoying, but kind of good is that the B-cash thing has taken all of the thunder from the old coins completely. No one is talking about like when no one's talking about the rest of the garbage. And all of those old coins have significantly dropped in price because B-cash has stolen their thunder. Almost like Z-cash stole a lot of thunder like the first month that Z-cash was out. So when you have something like this come out, it basically it leaves the other old coins in the dust and perhaps why we're seeing the other old coins significantly drop in price. Moving on to the exit question, will B-cash still be with us by Christmas and will the price be higher or lower? Tone vase. It'll be with us and I will say the price will be lower. Like I can't believe it's this high. I always underestimate people's stupidity and I'm always proven wrong. Blake Anderson. Well I don't want to say this because this is my trading plan but I think that it is going to be around and I actually have my B-cash still and I'm going to liquidate my B-cash before Coinbase releases there. I think that that's going to be a good sell to news type run-up situation. So if you want to copy me exactly, you can do that. But just thank me and your prayers. Jimmy's on. Well all coins don't die. There are some crappy all coins from like 2013 that are still with us today. So I highly doubt that B-cash is going to die by Christmas. Whether or not it's higher or lower, I mean I do tend to think that the point one shnelling point is sort of in play that seems to be something that people seem to think is a fair price like a nice 10% dividend for all the B-coin holders. But yeah, I don't know. I mean like price is more a ton's thing. So yeah. Aurora coin. My favorite old coin, Aurora coin, it's still with us. I hear there are still people using it in Iceland. Yeah, which is so crazy. Like, it's these like organisms that sort of like find a habitat in some random coin. Like they're sleeping. Like, like, they've never been there. I believe that is parasite. Parasite. And then the name, like the name currency died. The guy that created them even gave up and that thing died. And then a bunch of guys said, we can pop this shit. We can get it into the news. And both these numbers came back. It's all garbage. I mean, one of these days the bubble will pop. And we just have to make sure we're keep this channel going and we're the ones writing the book. Yeah, I mean, we are sort of positioning ourselves with a long term. And if you believe that these all coins will do badly over the long term, then you'll look like a genius if you're right. If not, then we might still be complaining in a few years. I don't know. It's almost kind of like Bitcoin is like a new economy. And the all coins are like the financial instruments, like the derivatives and stuff like that. And derivatives can be handled well or they can be handled really recklessly. So I mean, fire beware. It will still be with us. But I'm not so sure about the price after our next story. We have 1,367 live viewers. It's amazing. Thank you to everyone for giving us a thumbs up and a share. That was kind of you. Moving on to issue four, Civil War 2. The signers of the New York agreement have doubled down and ignored the warnings of the Bitcoin core programmers. As of right now, they have confirmed that they will hard fork Bitcoin to two megabyte blocks in November for basically no reason. Originally spam on the network caused full blocks. But since the agreement was signed, the spam has stopped. With segregated witness active on the network, the NYA signers could just wait until additional scaling solutions are launched. Instead, they are hard forking. Blake Anderson, was this Satoshi's vision three Bitcoin's, one for miners, one for corporations, and one for programmers? I find when I'm talking about objective science, it's always best to open up with Satoshi's vision. Here are my assumptions about Satoshi's vision. Let's start from reasoning. He wanted there to be a whole bunch of coins. Yeah. Satoshi's vision was for me to be really rich and for all you plebs to listen to me. So let's start from there. No, I mean, I think it's very, even just saying Satoshi's vision, like coming out of my own mouth, it just seems like it's the softest thing to say. So I don't have a whole lot of nice things to say about that. And I think that the exizing of certain features and stuff for the break off, I mean, I'm just gonna fill this over to Jimmy. So I'll take a pass. Jimmy, saw, and can we get replay protection on your answer from Blake? No guarantees on that. I might copy exactly what he said and pass it off as my own. Now, I mean, yeah, this is becoming sort of like a new model for an all coin launch. I don't think the 2x people are necessarily intending to do that. But, you know, that's, I think what's going to end up kind of happening because, yeah, I mean, they assigned this agreement. There seems to be momentum behind it. And, you know, there doesn't seem like a face saving way to get out of it in any way. And there's, you know, I mean, a lot of people sort of see this as pointless, right? Because we have the big blockchain and Bitcoin cash. We have the SegWid chain and Bitcoin right now. Why do we need to change it? Why do we need to hard work? There's a lot of resistance. But, you know, like I said before, my new philosophy is let's embrace this chaos because I think that's actually good for Bitcoin. Every bad thing that happens sort of immunizes the network from sort of further attacks of a similar kind. And we've already sort of had Bitcoin cash and all the socialized costs that came along with that. Well, now everyone's like better prepared for those exact same socialized costs. The only difference this time is going to be replay protection. That seems to be a big issue. A lot of developers are arguing about it. My gut feeling is that people are smart there. And, you know, everyone I know that has Bitcoin is absolutely terrified to touch it. In case they mess it up and destroy it. So whatever it is with replay protection, they're going to be super careful. If they have to wait like 200 blocks for enough coins to exist that they can like mix it with theirs and be assured that they won't get it replayed, they'll do that. And I think that's okay. That's okay. And that'll sort of immunize us again for the next fork. Because I don't think this is it. But, you know, one thing I want to sort of replay here from Tonya's conversation like earlier today is this does seem like it's sort of benefiting the holders quite a bit. And I think Tonya was sort of arguing that, maybe this is a little bit like proof of stake. It kind of is. But it's not an admission schedule. It's just sort of taking coins from people that don't want them. And I think that's a good free market solution to this whole thing, which is great. And I'm very happy with this stuff. Before I was afraid of all this stuff of hard forks, but now that we've had a hard fork, I am embracing it. I think this is good for Bitcoin. I think Bitcoin will survive and thrive and be more immune and be evolving even better as we go along on these. How Jimmy Song learned to stop worrying and love hard forks. And I was talking to some very smart people this weekend. They agreed with me. They said that the New York agreements have business agreement and they signed it. And they're going to do what they say because they signed it. Now let's talk to Tonya Vays who disagrees with me. Can we just change their mind? Must we have a suicide pack? Must we all hang together? I want to jump in really quick. I think that the New York agreement is a lot like signing an agreement in terms of how a system is going to run when you don't have root control over that system, which makes the mutual ascent part of that contract in valid. I'm going to go to tell him how to do that. They will have root control soon. And maybe that's what it's all about. Maybe it is. It's on Vays. Yeah. I mean, my view is they signed an agreement but they didn't know what they were signing. I mean, they had no idea who was going to work on it. They didn't have any sample of similar events. And now they have one. So they know what's going to happen. So the book on B Cash has not yet been closed. And while I agree with Jimmy, that I was also afraid of hard forks. And now I'm looking at this B Cash disaster. And it's either going to put all of us out of our misery and I'll just go back to traditional markets. But I don't expect that. I expect Bitcoin to survive and B Cash to be totally irrelevant, but it will be irrelevant enough not to be confused with Bitcoin in case some people are still confusing Bitcoin with B Cash. But the fact that they're already Tom next one is crazy, right? Because you still have three months, why this rush? We are definitely going to hard forks. I mean, you give it some time. You can choose your deadline. Now, they of course, when I capitalized they're seeing how much money B Cash just made. And they want to capitalize on that. And to me, this is like proof of stake. If every six months, there's not a fork of Bitcoin that has enough hype and enough bullshit to give Bitcoiners like myself, like, I mean, Jimmy, I don't know if you sold yours yet. Blake clearly hasn't sold yet. Thomas, you're on record for selling some. If you're going to give old school Bitcoiners 10 to 15% under Bitcoin every six months, that's a proof of stake system to me. And I really don't like it. That's not why I got into crypto. So to me, that's problematic. Now, the New York Agreement signers, I mean, they're not the majority of the nodes. They're like, what, a dozen companies? They have no power. They got one developer, Jeff Garzeck, who apparently was normal in all of his comments three years ago, and now have gone completely off the wagon. It's so funny, right? So Jeff Garzeck had all of these good things to say about Bitcoin, and then he had these crazy ideas like putting Bitcoin in space. And now he has forgotten about all of his, like, good ideas and has now gone crazy, yet the idea that we thought was crazy, which is putting Bitcoin in space is now being done by Blockstream. Well, I like to me, that is very ironic. They got one developer. What, a couple of companies, shape shift, being the most prominent one, and then they just see an article today about shape shift, changing old coin working with because of the SEC, I haven't really read the article just a headline. So we'll see what happens. I really hope. I'm new. Hold up for a second, you're breaking up. All right, go ahead, let's make sure that we can hear. Oh, I'm breaking up. Sorry, let me cut the view. Okay. Maybe this will be better. At this point, I really hope the New Yorkers fork because then if we have B cash, and then what the hell are they going to call the other one? Bitcoin three. Bitcoin three. Jimmy, what do you think? Blake, let's name it. Let's name it now. I mean, isn't it just two X? I think that's the name that everyone's going to use. I don't know. Bitcoin's third leg. Bitcoin two X. I'm going to call it a coin. Bit X. I'm going to call it the bit X like space ox. Bit X. Very, very pornographic. Let's move on to the exit question. Is this it or will we see a fourth Bitcoin soon? Blake Anderson. Yeah, I mean, it's kind of like a, like when you pay a ransom and you're like, okay, here, like, you know, don't blackmail me anymore. Here you go. And then they come back and be like, I want more money. And I want more money. I think it's going to be similar to that. They always want more Jimmy song. Yeah, I mean, we have like hundreds of all coin launches in the last few years. And this is like a way better platform as far as an all coin is concerned because you have at least one example where you had like instantly like the top five coin. So I mean, if I'm an all coin, this is the direction that I'm going to want to go. I'm not to say that I'm an all coiner, but like, let's just be honest with the incentives here. The incentives are such that it's going to make a very attractive for people to fork off until these forks are not worth very much. And that's going to, that may take a while, but in the short term, I can't see people not hard forking including this 2x one. It's always fun when the attractive people fork off tone ways. Oh, we might as well ask time. Good. Will we see a more Bitcoin Bitcoin? Using a Russian VPN. Fortcoin? Probably. I mean, it's not going to be a Bitcoin. There'll be somebody else launching an altcoin by giving Bitcoiners a head start to owning that altcoin. I mean, I think this will be the only attempt to actually have the call Bitcoin, fighting for naming rights. I don't think we're going to have a fourth one fighting for naming rights. I don't know, like one of the core devs, one of the current core devs decides to, you know, maybe look at as junior, decides to do a proof of work change and try to fork the chain. So I mean, that can happen, but no, I think after this New York agreement, the next one is going to be, they're going to go with an altcoin from the start, but they're going to try to utilize Bitcoin's distribution in order to launch their altcoin. Obviously, there's too many, too many easily used names for Bitcoin here, Bitcoin, junior, Ms. Bitcoin, maybe it could come back as like a four player Bitcoin in the future, all kinds of options, all kinds of names, but that's about it. We're going to move on to predictions or a story of the week, Blake Anderson, are you ready with a prediction or a story of the week? Let me go last, because I got to pull up a document that everybody else ready to go. All right, let's go to Jimmy's song, prediction, or story of the week. All right, my story of the week is the explainer video that we released yesterday. We already have enough donations to do our next one. So that will be interesting. My other story of the week is that Litecoin is attempting to sort of battle unit bias. And this is something that I've thought about for a long time. It's very difficult to calculate exactly how much Bitcoin like $30 is, right? Like you have to go down decimal places and stuff like that. Well, Litecoin is sort of preemptively doing that. One thousand, one one thousandth of a Litecoin is going to be called a Lite, and one one thousandth of a Lite is going to be called a photon. And that's going to be a part of their wallet and all this other stuff. And as usual, Litecoin is sort of becoming a test bed for a lot of Bitcoin innovations. And if this should increase Litecoin price in some way, I really hope that the Bitcoin core devs would consider making this an informational bit and encouraging exchanges and merchants to utilize it. Nothing more confusing than changing the units. Tone Vays. So I hope this isn't Blake's story of the week because it isn't mine, but I feel like it needs to be covered. So I'm going to throw it back to Jimmy because I got a different thing I want to talk about. Can you please comment on the Tresor situation? Right. So there was a vulnerability found. Tresor has given at least three or four different press releases. I haven't gone through the code yet or look through what exactly the claims are. I am told though that if you pass phrase the Tresor, that's sort of like a hidden account thing that you could do on a Tresor. That way, even if they grab your device, they have no idea what Bitcoin's are on it unless they also know your password. That will protect it. Now, if you lose your Tresor device and your password, then you're out of luck. But that's one way to combat it. And that seems like a pretty good mitigation strategy. And it's also pretty good in terms of hiding whatever bitcoins you have on that Tresor. Right now, if you don't pass, we're protected or use that feature in Tresor, what will happen is that anyone can plug in your Tresor and find out how much money you have, even if they can't transfer it. And there's some debate around whether or not you can using the exploit that they found. But if you have that password, well, then that combines with the private key to generate sort of an account that's not clear to even the device. It's only clear to you. So this may be a good way to do it. My recommendation would be if you are using a Tresor to use this feature and you'll be okay. Yeah, I think they call it the 25th word is the link that they use. And then a lot of the claims that were made in the medium articles were a little bit exaggerated. Yes, there are vulnerabilities that you can especially use on hardware when you have physical access to it. But they were claiming things like you could do it in 15 seconds and then get a new case on it and nobody would be able to see which is just patently ridiculous. I mean, it's not that easy to get inside of a Tresor. And then also in terms of physical access to anything, if you have physical access to a system, you shouldn't be really, really super confident that it's gonna be safe because you have to just assume that somebody's connected it to a brute machine and they're actively working on it. So when you have that 25th word on your Tresor, that's going to give you more time when you notice that it's gone, somebody's probably brooding it. You're gonna try to get your stuff moved off it or get it backed up in some way. And that is what I was gonna talk about. So let's just throw it back to tone because I think we talked about it for a while. No, no, I would like to hear more. So I'll keep going then I'll do my. I guess I just think that the medium article offered two bitcoins. If you paid two bitcoins at the bottom of the medium article, it would tell you about the vulnerability. So I think that the way that they kind of exaggerated how easy and fast it is to do has something to do with the fact that they were selling the information that they were talking about at the bottom of the medium article. So I think there's a little bit of a conflict of interest in terms of how bad they were saying it was versus what they were trying to do. But that's not to be confused with saying that there's no problems at all. You don't wanna give somebody physical access to your Tresor with a 25th word activated and expect them not to get it because that's a bad plan. Yeah, and I just wanna piggyback on what Blake is saying. It is very hard to secure a physical device. And in fact, the only devices that I know of that you're going to be absolutely protected from someone stealing your private key is what's called the hardware security module. And that's used typically by banks and security certificate providers like Barassin or something like that. And those cost many, many thousands of dollars. And the way those work is that if you try to open the machine, there's a part of the machine that will purposely break the part that has the private key in it. And it can only be signed, you know, things can only be signed on the machine. Now it would be great if we could get some sort of like consumer divide, consumer level HSM. That's also like what the people in the industry Lingo would say is tips 140-2 level three certified device. But that's not something that really exists today. Great idea for entrepreneurs that are into hardware. This is something that would definitely get me to buy is if you had like a consumer level HSM that's tips 140-2 level three, I would totally buy it, even if it's like a thousand dollars because, you know, security my Bitcoin is worth it worth that much to me. And especially if it had a decent user interface and all this other stuff. So something for you to think about, but yeah, don't expect that much out of your hardware device. If you give physical access, somebody's gonna be able to get the key. Jimmy Song doing a lot of shopping on today's show. He wants a satellite kit and now he wants a secure hardware wallet that works. Get to work people. Yeah, what can I say? Bitcoin price has gone up. I'm feeling pretty rich right here. All right, let's get a tone for a story of the week. Go ahead, Tom. All right, so I'll try to make it quick. I don't have some update connection issues. And then the ICO Hypton here in St. Petersburg, Russia. And that's exactly what I was like. Through the infinite number of people, it was a huge event. I mean, the organization was top notch. It was like half outdoor, half indoor event. Pretty much everyone is Russian. There's three or four Americans here. There were some a lot of Asian investors, but as far as the speakers and the people, all that part of the event, it was basically like me and John Matonis where I got to meet him for the first time, by the way. If the only draw was that we're speaking, that we're not Russian, even though I spoke in Russian, but that, so I guess mostly just him then. And it was all ICOs. So they have like a, I see a hackathon. So you have to be, you know, if you had had to have an ICO, and then they were like lining up investors for it. And the ideas were like really out there, and I was one of like mentors and ICO experts. And it was like, if only you guys had a camera on me, that was trying to explain to some of these companies that A, you don't need a token and B, you don't need to ICO it. But I mean, there were a handful there, were really good ideas. And then those were ideas were complicated by the token. But it's kind of understandable because, you know, you need money. Like how are you gonna, how are you gonna, you know, get about your programmers to program your idea, whether it's good or dumb, without incoming money. And the ICO is giving you all that money. Now, the interesting thing is, is that one of the questions that I was asking, a lot of these developers working on these ICO projects, is well, have you ever had any Bitcoin, and you have no idea how often the answer was no. So it feels like Russia has completely skipped the Bitcoin stage and has jumped directly to the ICO stage, which I find absolutely amazing. I'm think supposed to be immune to propaganda after the Soviet Union collapse. I mean, come on, Russia. Well, I mean, tone, think about it. If you are a developer that did have Bitcoin, or even Ethereum at this point, you would be out and nobody could afford you because you'd have so much money already. So it's not a surprise that all these developers that you're meeting at these conferences, where they're working on ICOs, well, they're working on those things because they missed. And there's a reason that they didn't, that they're working on that stuff instead of something more exciting in Bitcoin. Would you say they're doubling down on missing? Something like that. FOMO, FOMO. Same thing with Korean, Japan, yeah. All right, I think that's about it. We're running out of time. I just want to show the QR code in case you'd like to donate some Bitcoin to us. So you could use this QR code right here. And we'll be back tomorrow with today in Bitcoin. So please make sure to subscribe to the World Crypto Network down below. We have 1,400 live viewers. Thank you so much to everybody who gave us a thumbs up and a share that really worked for us. And we're out of time. Until next week. Bye, bye. Bye, bye.