The Bitcoin Group, the American original. For over the last 10 seconds, the sharpest satosies, the best Bitcoin, the hardest cryptocurrency talk. We'd like to welcome our panelists, Blake Anderson, cryptographic economist. Hi, everybody. Thanks for having me. Live in the studio, Jeffrey Jones, from the Bitcoin News Show. Thanks so much, Thomas, for having me and for putting me up on your place, having an absolute time in San Francisco, listening to people talk about ICOs behind my shoulder in restaurants. Tone Vays from Liberty Life Trail. Awesome to be here as well. Thank you for the jacket. And I'm Thomas Hunt from the World Crypto Network. Moving on to issue one, if everyone could give us a thumbs up and a share, that was nice. That's right. More people find the show. And now issue one, SEC concludes the Dow was a security. The SEC set a powerful warning to investors and the cryptocurrency community, that community, that the innovative technology behind virtual transactions does not exempt security offerings and trading platforms from the regulatory framework designed to protect investors and the integrity of the markets. They are not, however, pressing charges against the now defunct Dow. Blake Anderson, your thoughts on the SEC's announcement? I think that it's not a huge surprise for people that were paying attention to the space. I mean, I've been kind of saying that this goes even deeper than regulation, almost kind of into contract law, mutual consent, meeting of the minds, understanding that what you're purchasing and trading is a security instead of some kind of literal token with an operational connotation. You can't just call your securities trading and never produce stand and expect to be immune from people looking at it and identifying it for what it is and classifying it for what it is. So I hope this sends at least a message to the future in terms of if you are trying to make something that behaves like a security and call it something else, that's not going to fly. I think that them not going after funds that would be really hard to collect in terms of the Dow case makes sense, but some people might disagree with me there and might actually want to firm our action. Just changing the name to blockchain and token was not enough. Jeffrey Jones. Well, some people thought it was enough, right? Some people thought this was trying to get around securities law. No problem. This hasn't been trying to be happening. This hasn't been attempted for the last 100 years or anything like that. So people, they tried to fool a lot of people and of course some people got fooled. We're still watching this ICO thing unfold in front of everybody. Everybody gets to watch this real time and live. So it's really interesting to watch. And the SEC statement was really interesting about how light touch it was, relatively light touch. They said they weren't going after anybody. So it's interesting to watch this play out the way that we all kind of and the WCN kind of thought. We all kind of thought, I mean, to tones credit, you know, to a lot of people's credit, you know, Christie Rose, we saw this coming, right? We knew at some point that we had, at least the Dow had to be declared a security. We know what it was because obviously if it looks like a duck, you know, quacks like a duck, we know what's going on. So it's good to finally have some clarity, but it's still a little bit more of the Wild West, hopefully just a more cautious Wild West, but it's still a Wild West. And so we have a lot of stuff to watch, a lot of stuff to come. And it's just kind of really exciting to watch all this go down and to watch some people like Toe and some others, like Christie Rose, you know, some other people get vindicated. This is really great. And you know, it really is going to take out all the crap, hopefully, and really just give us, leave us with the best of the projects to getting funding. And as Jeff said earlier, we are in the midst of a sort of ICO fever. We were eating breakfast and at the booth next to us, they were talking about ICOs and they were pitching an ICO and they just flown in. And it's like Los Angeles around here. Everyone's pitching a movie script. Everyone's involved. But now it seems to be these ICOs. Ton Vaze, your thoughts on the SEC's decision. All right. So I don't think it was really a decision of any kind. It was just a report on their opinion. And because it was just a report on an opinion, they just want to make it clear not to start a panic that no one is going after anyone in this case. Also in the case of the Dow, there wasn't really anyone to go after. This would be a terrible cost benefits analysis. If they waste government resources trying to go after Stephen Tual in the slocket team. But the next time they try to raise something, I mean, they'll probably give them a nice phone call. There were also some weird things, even in the outline of the report. I haven't had time to read the report, unfortunately. But even in the public statement of the report, they refer to Ethereum as a currency in that summary. And that made no sense to me because I don't see a difference between the Dow and Ethereum. Other than one got hacked and one voluntarily forked and caused two coins. Other than that, like the way the securities were generated in the form of the Dow and in the form of the Ethereum pre-sale, it's pretty much the same. So if the Dow is a security, I don't understand how Ethereum is not a security. Yeah, Ethereum could be used as cash, but the Dow could have been also used as currency. And this is where I'm against your token having multiple functionalities because then you open yourself up to multiple jurisdictions. So I don't think people should read too much into that little sentence that calls Ethereum a currency in their outline. The other very interesting thing that was stated in the report is that once your token has been declared to be a security, any exchange that has been trading that token is also liable for trading and unregistered security. So this should set a little bit of a panic over at places like BitTracks and Poloniacs and something like what do you call them? Coinbase and DAX. And I've always said, and there was, I was even quoted in CBS article where I said it's so dumb for GDAX and Coinbase to branch out to old coins and ICOs. Branching out to an old coin like Litecoin or Monero is actually kind of okay. They're not going to be securities. But anything that was created out of thin air and sold in a presale like an Ethereum has a much higher chance of being a security. So why do you want to take that regulatory risk? Now of course they want the money from the fees so they have to compete otherwise they might as well shut down the company. And Coinbase is giving people a terrible experience. Someone was actually this morning just an example of Coinbase. Someone was sending me some Bitcoin from their Coinbase account and I got a text message saying sent with a screenshot and then I'll reply back 30 minutes later and said, I don't see it. And then the person goes, oh Coinbase still has it as pending. And I'm like, oh maybe this is why people are complaining that Bitcoin is slow. Because when I send a Bitcoin payment from my wallet to another wallet that isn't Coinbase, within three seconds you get a notification of funds being received exactly. But literally I had a payment sent to me from a Coinbase wallet and it's somewhere in the ether. So it's like a terrible Bitcoin experience for people. So I mean I don't know how much more valid I can talk about. Coinbase is the same one offering the people of Cuba the Bitcoin experience of having their money and then losing their money. Which we say can't happen to them. But we mean if you make paper wallets and hardware wallets and you store them safely, etc. But yeah, you're right, Tony. It would be a per count on the charges. So Poloniacs, etc. would be guilty of a per share sales fine potentially. Per share across God knows how many assets right share each coin. So Poloniacs can actually get like a cumulative fine that's larger than like their entire cash savings. And this puts huge pressure on something like that and what we just seen with BTC-E, you go after them with a huge fine and the Bitcoin's gone. It is. It's gone. It got hacked. It's gone. Oh, the BTC. Couldn't have been avoided. Well, no. I mean if something happens, how can you prove there wasn't any intelligent? Exactly. Exascam. I mean if it looks like it was a good time for the money to disappear and it disappeared, oh boy, it looks bad. It's hard to prove a negative. Right? It's possible. Exactly. So you have to be real like if you weren't careful enough before keeping your Bitcoin on an old coin exchange, you have to be even more careful now. You know, and what does this even mean for somebody like War Text, somebody like Eric Warhees and shapeshift. They don't hold any inventory other than the speculative nature that they get a bunch of inventory upfront, which is so they can add the coin and profit from the from the pre-sale and stuff like just to get it listed there. And if he gets nailed for that, he could get nailed for insider trading because if it's a security, if token X is deemed as a security by the SEC, then all of the insider trading laws, which people aren't even sure about, would instantly retroactively apply because that is now a security. Let's hope so. I believe that's correct. The regulatory framework that deals with securities would then retroactively or even just, you know, from that point forward apply. I think that's correct. Right. And that's going to be a problem for a lot of these exchanges. So, I mean, this is great for Bitcoin because thank you again, Jason Cybert, who during the Bitcoin Savings and Trust trial got the SEC to admit on the record that Bitcoin isn't a security. And I think this is going to end extremely well for Bitcoin and there will be a flippening and it's going to be from old coins at the Bitcoin, like I've always said. It's also worth noting on the definitions tone that the legal definition for corporations being a people came from the head notes of a case. So, these early definitions such as Ethereum being a currency are important because they may set precedence. So, if the SEC wants to change their mind on that, they should issue another report soon. Let's move on to the exit question. Exit question. Will the SEC announcement cause a significant reduction in the number of ICOs in the next six months? Blake Anderson, yes or no? A significant reduction. I don't know. With the amount of popularity, with the oxygen being poured on the fire at the same time as their fire extinguisher, it's anybody's bad. It's like liquid nitrogen and lava coming together to meet and it's like which one's going to win? It's like, I don't know. There's going to be an explosion. So, that's my prediction. There's going to be an explosion somewhere. And you know, I think that a lot of people are actually hoping that the regulation has an effect. I guess I'm more on the category of I want our self-imposed regulations to have an effect. I want our knowledge of the space to go out and encourage people to engage in self-regulation. Not to launch an ICO that's not tenable. Believe in the idea more than you want to make a whole bunch of money back. Try to have investors that you know, that you're in a relationship with that are hopefully accredited. Do it in that way. Don't just go out and try to make a whole bunch of money with an ICO. That's what we're trying to prevent is people that are trying to go out and get attention without anything to say. Jeffrey Jones, more or less ICOs in the next six months. I think that we're going to create an ICO to help protect ICOs for my ICOs. That could actually possibly be. No. It's going to be really crazy. I really agree with tone about how these these these polloniacs type exchanges with God knows how many assets are probably going to end up exits scamming at some point. And again, all that value will be coming back to Bitcoin. So it's really only a matter of time as Blake said, the gasoline's been set. The fire is lit. And so now we just wait for the explosion. So, but you know, I really was kind of thinking that because of the SEC such light touch on the regulation, like we could see a whole another year at least of this craziness, but the fact of the matter, the fact of the matter is that the laws are going to put pressure on the exchanges. And so now we're just going to wait because the the balls really in the exchanges court at this point. Tony Vays will the public heed the SEC's warning on the ICOs. I think they will. I think this will put a little bit of a like throw some foot on the brakes for short amount of time. And the biggest beneficiaries of this are going to be the lawyers. So I think now a lot of these ICOs that thought they can just like sneak in and sneak in and get it out there before any kind of ruling will now have to regroup and find a lawyer and try to figure out exactly what they're doing. My suggestion for your ICOs is not to some people say, oh, you have to make it an app token. And I am against the app token idea. I'm more of your token just needs to be represent something tangible. And all your ICO is doing is allowing an easier means of moving this asset around. And this asset needs to be something that isn't all that illicit because you are a centralized entity. You have to realize that these ICOs are centralized entities. They're like corporations. They're not really anonymous. So it's your best bet. I just think that it's economically not useful to have an app token. It just makes no economic sense. So now you're down to, okay, my app my token has to represent something tangible, but that tangible has to be something legal. And then moving it around in a legal way can make your life easier and get around some of the funding restrictions if people like your idea. I think the rest of the directions they should be going. Let's see if they go there. But the breaks are definitely on because now everyone has to lawyer on. I've been advising several companies to do a vertical implementation. Maybe you decentralized and having this blockchain that you are either in too much control of from a regulatory standpoint or not in control of enough from a company operations standpoint. Perhaps vertical implementation is superior to a blockchain use case in a lot of these areas. And that's not a popular thing to say in the space, but it's just plain truth. It just seems that people don't realize yet that all these ECR 20 tokens, I mean, they are on the top of a network that's not sustainable. It's definitely not scalable yet. For sure, I think we can all agree that this is not ready to scale to the planet yet, but yet these tokens are becoming worth billions. And again, they're based off of this Ethereum blockchain that's not mutable. So it's based off of something that's really not real. If you want to create tokens and such over the top of Bitcoin, that pin to Bitcoin, maybe something that might be useful there. But this is crazy because we're putting much more risk on top of something that's already insane risk. And you're just compounding the risk. And people just don't seem to realize this yet. And when they do, it's going to all come crashing down. And the thing they built on top, everything you just said, I agree with technologically. And on top of that, their ICO might not be a security, but it's possible that it's tied to an unlicensed on registered security. Now, what does that mean for your legit ICO that isn't the security sitting and connected to an unlicensed on registered security that may get popped? And again, just the scaling issue, I mean, we saw how one ICO can bring down the whole network. How can you tell me that a company is going to be is worth billions on the network that can't sustain more than one ICO a day. And we're not even talking and ICO raises all this money. And then it disappears. Yeah, of course, I'll have a minute to get that out. And like Tony and many of the people that have been saying, you know, there has been an ICO hack like almost every week. Like it's it's what's now a weekly thing because this thing is not production ready. And people are selling it as it is. There has been a hack on ICOs almost every week. And there will continue to be more, there will continue to be more hacks until people get the point. And there's no even goes back to stuff that we learned before Bitcoin was invented when EgoL got seized because they had visible tangible backing assets for their currency. And then that allowed a failure point for the government to come and seize. So it's funny now to see ICOs coming out with ideas that we already knew didn't work before Bitcoin because these people are getting in and don't know the entire history. And then the closing note, these ICOs are raising money. Yeah, we know about the famous hacks that train the entire wallet. But we don't know if there are leaks and this money is being hacked every day from every ICO and we don't know about it. And even they may not even know about it, right? Because the money is sitting there and ether, the money is sitting there in Bitcoin. It's unregulated. It's uninsured. And there's no checks on it. So how do you know that there literally isn't every single ICO being slowly hacked for like a hundred dollars worth of ether a day? It's not. It's not. It's not. It's not. It's not. It's such slapping instantiation too because there should be multi-sig. There should be accounts which are auditable from the outside where people can see and start to ring a alarm bell. The stuff thing goes wrong. I mean, we should have definite you know, a set of best practices that become our regulation that's voluntary for us to engage in and we should really be pushing that and you know, helping to get people to understand if you have a good idea, don't do what those people did. And just remember, you know, the people that are creating and have these these zero days and these attacks, it's now their best incentive to just hold and continue to let the populist come in, put their money in and only do little hacks eight million dollars here, five million dollars here. It's in their best interest to just keep that going until people finally realized that this thing is not production ready yet. Yeah, it's like a hedgehog. We're noticing that the number one threat against ICOs now will be hacking. Not that they fail to complete their project that they lose the funds that they were trusted with. I just like to thank everyone for watching. We've got four hundred and sixty live viewers. We've been working to give us a thumbs up and a share and then while you're here, go ahead and subscribe to the World Crypto Network right down below. But we're moving on to issue two issue two BTC dash E find a hundred and ten million dollars for money laundering BTC dash E the venerable anonymous exchange is down. They've been fined a hundred and ten million dollars for their alleged part in a money laundering operation that included coins hacked from outgogs, Bitfloor, Bitcoinnika and the operator of BTC E, Alexander Vinik, a Russian national has been arrested in Greece, charged with seventeen counts of money laundering and two counts of engaging in unlawful monetary transactions. Jeffrey Jones, will this action cause a chilling effect on the ransomware as hackers will no longer be able to easily cash out their ill gotten gains. So my opinion on this is that it's not going to slow down at all. In fact, it's going to do the opposite and continue to accelerate because the internet is fundamentally broken. Our systems are fundamentally broken. They're running on Windows NT and Blake will attest to this more than anybody as a security researcher expert. You'll be able to see that these freaking systems are running these ancient ancient operating systems and they don't care because they never had to protect money before. They only had to protect some data that they probably had in a backup anyway. There was no incentive for hackers to come in here and hack hospitals. There was no incentive for them to go and hack systems that are dependent on the city like subways and such and on and on and on because that's where they know that they will pay the ransom. And so the security problem is still there. That's the underlying issue is the security issue. Then you have the you pair that with an incentive structure like Bitcoin with anonymous cash, basically, and you're going to basically completely rip open the security system. So that's not going to change. Now we all know that BTC was the place. Of course, it wasn't anonymous freaking exchange. So of course, a lot of dirty stuff went down there, but it will find another home. And what people don't realize is how big the OTC market is. If they don't know if they can get their money out into an exchange, they'll probably know somebody who knows somebody that will buy some Bitcoin. It's just the way it is. The OTC market is absolutely huge and it's continuing to rise with the price of Bitcoin. And so it's just not hard. There's so many Bitcoin exchanges out there. There's so much Bitcoin and the OTC markets and there's still so much horrible security across this country and across the world that we've only seen just the tip of the iceberg of this stuff. Tom Vays, your thoughts on the BTC-E situation? All right. So it's I think there'll be a huge ramification from this. So the fact that BTC is now going to take the money and run, I mean, that's obvious. I mean, there's no way we've talked about this. This is why you don't store your coins in exchanges. Okay. Let's talk about the ramifications of it. They're coming back on. They say they're coming back. I'll be surprised. I'll be surprised if they come back. But I'm not expecting them to come back. But so Alexander Vinik, so he is accused of being a hacker, not only of hacking Mound Gox but hacking other exchanges and then literally he's running BTC-E as an anonymous exchange in order to clean all of the Bitcoin that he's hacking from other exchanges, which is actually kind of genius in a way. Here's the biggest problem and the biggest fallout from this. Was it a channel assist that did the analysis? Chain analysis. We also have with SEC security assistant especially in making this chart. Yeah, I haven't had time to dive into it. We're all those cool transactions. So here's the fallout that I see. Okay. People, I remember like six months to a year ago, the boogie man was Bitcoin is not anonymous enough. Bitcoin is not fungible enough. This is a problem and people like me like gave hell to companies like Chain analysis. Okay. And then it kind of died down with the scaling debate because we have like, you know, a bigger fish to deal with. Now that segwood is almost in and the big blockers are still a problem. So they're still priority number one. If the big blockers are no longer a problem, which God willing, this is going to become priority number one because right now this priority number two. And people are going to realize that, whoa, they can actually track what a coins went. So here's the potential ramification that I see it. You can tie these Maungogs coins that they were cleaned through BTC and say a big chunk of them ended up on Poloniacs. And then you know exactly which user on Poloniacs is sitting on this Maungogs hacked coin. Does the US legal jurisdiction have the ability to then go to Poloniacs and says, you have to freeze this guy's account. We know for a fact he is sitting on Maungogs coins. Do they have that precedent? And if they have that precedent, there could be major fallout when it comes to exchanges. Holding other people's coins, if you know there's a direct link to those coins having belonged to someone else. This will put fungibility and things being anonymous on Bitcoin back in the spotlight. And you kind of want that, but you kind of don't because I have this like horrible vision that once the big blockers fail in their quest for big blocks, they're going to need to find another boogie man in order to push core out. And they're going to start screaming that Bitcoin is not fungible enough and the core is doing too slow and they're doing it the wrong way. And our three developers have a better solution to the Bitcoin fungibility problem. And the sort of the coins are traceable and you have to trust us and you have to use our fork. And here's our new client Bitcoin anonymous. And it's all going to be DA and it will be the same people. So I'm pointing the term right here. Be used then and the next one is going to be B.A. Bitcoin anonymous. That's going to be the next movement that we're going to have to deal with putting out fires. And then once there is a good solution from core on the fungibility, like Mimbo Wimbo, they're going to come up with some other insanity why it's bad and why the miners, why their miners need to block it and why their solutions of how God knows what they're going to put in Bitcoin anonymous client is the real solution. This is the future that I see Bitcoin headed over the next 12 to 18 months. Well, at least B.A. is an anonymous. B.A. is a much clever more clever name than blind carbon copy. I think that's improving anyway. So at least their names are getting better if they do go in that way. But yeah, fungibility attacks like that. There's a serial number. There's numbers on dollars that you can remember. Then if they get stolen and then they get traded to somebody else, you can be like, that's a stolen dollar that you got it from. You can tell that person, but you can't take that from that person. I think the same thing would apply to Bitcoin's. People might be able to be like, hey, I want to test your activity, but I don't think they're going to try to take rightfully gotten Bitcoin from a third party unless they were involved somehow in the law-during process, which also might get hairy as well. That could be a problem for Bitcoin. They could blacklist them if they blacklisted the Bitcoin or label them like color coins speculation. We could see a class system for Bitcoin. Okay, okay, counter that a little bit, Blake. Definitely. This kind of regulation is already on the books. For example, when I was a buying my gold coins from my local gold dealer, he was buying people's gold and jewels off the street. So anyone off the street can come in and sell them gold ring, silver ring, silver coins. I was sitting in there because we were talking and then anytime someone comes in to sell his gold, he gives them gold or silver, he gives them a price, and then the guy says, okay, I'll sell it to you. So he goes, give me a driver's license. I have to make a photo copy. Why does he do that? He's not reporting him to the federal government. Those are local jurisdictions. So he has to take a photo copy of the guy selling him Bitcoin on the street, sorry Bitcoin, gold on off the street. He then has to hold the inventory of gold for a minimum of two weeks. And this is a problem for a lot of gold dealers because they're unhaged. They can't immediately flip the gold ring. They can't even sell it to like a Melter. They have to sit on the gold ring for two weeks because local police can show up and they say, we have a robbery report and these are the things that were described to be right. Can we please see your inventory the last two weeks that you bought off the street? And if something in that inventory matches what was potentially stolen, that is confiscated by the authorities without any reimbursement. That is the risk a gold dealer takes on. I can see that regulation being applied to Bitcoin and that can definitely scare people from this kind of an exchange thing and holding it on their own and waiting for these more fungible solutions. I agree and that's a risk but at the same time gold is physically tangible. You can come and you can get that. KYC AML restrictions that are on various different exchanges make it so that the block time combined with knowing who you are make it so that almost the same thing is happening in Bitcoin outside of VTC. So I think that what you're right is we have to do is avoid that situation coming to pass but at the same time there's different factors that make it so that Bitcoin can survive in a robust and secure fashion cooperating with law enforcement without having to have that two week period or without having to have these big reversals. Secondly, going to actually collect these stuff trying to enforce what you're talking about would be very, very difficult. Not on an exchange. It's very easy to enforce it on Coinbase. You just say lock this guy's account. Correct. It's very difficult to enforce on the individual level. Correct. But I have to come to you and get it because then they have to get a judge to put you in jail on contempt of court until you turn over the evidence. And so when it becomes really hairy as local Bitcoins because then do they come after the people that are running the deal that are made with local Bitcoins because they are not as compliant as so that's where it becomes really big issue. I agree that that's where we have to start to watch for if there's too heavy up regulation that starts to have a chilling effect. Moving on to the exit question. What country will the next BTC-EBN Jeffrey Jones? The next exit scam, oh man, to be honest, I'm really not sure, Thomas, but we know that the exchanges in countries like Venezuela are doing extremely well. There is premiums across all of those places. Bitcoin's going to continue to thrive in the countries where their governments are the most impressive with their finances, with the money, with the currencies. And it's going to just continue to explode in there. So we will have a lot more exit scams. Like I said, this is really the bottom line is that we have Bitcoin now. This is the world that we live in. And so it's going to continue to reshape society, reshape the world, reshape how we do security, reshape how we build computers, bring in an era of trusted hardware. And so all of that's going to come to pass. And so during that time, there will be some more of these exit scams and these things. But now with regulation starting to come in, they're going to be fewer and far between over time. But we've got years of this stuff left. It's still early, early days, as I like to say on my show all the time. It really is early days. We just now got the first light touch regulation on ICOs. I mean, this is going to be here for years. The country called Earth, what a cop out naming a planet. Tone Vays name a country. So I'm actually going to go with China and I'm going to go more specific. I'm just going to use like past history as a representation of like future. And I tried not to pick on Roger Vier in these episodes, but it's just bad luck that he was in the middle of being involved, not involved, but somewhat vouching from our docs and that turned out to be a disaster. And then he's on the Jihun who side and then Bitmain turned out to be a disaster between Asik Boost and all that stuff. And now he's like obviously following via BTC and their new exchange and how they're trying to sucker and people's bitcoins in order to trade them in their futures market. And I just like just Roger Vier is just the worst luck of you know being, you know, I guess not wrong side of history. Right. He's just on the wrong side of companies that he's somewhat support and his support for via BTC just it's going to be I have a feeling there's going to be bad luck again. And via BTC is going to be the next potential BTC East style exit scam. Blake Anderson name a country. I would say oh name a country. No, I got to have a diatribe here. No, India. I think that what we need to talk about is regulation and people say you know let's have things regulated so that we can you know have what's going on be fair. And then other people are like well let's have a market of competition where people learn not to be fleeced and we have self-imposed regulation which is really the way that regulation is supposed to be. And people say that even though it sounds kind of crazy because regulation that isn't like that becomes capture oriented. Famous economist once said once a market is regulated the first things bought and sold are those regulators. So that's why a lot of people are not wanting a whole lot of regulation in Bitcoin which I can appreciate. And there's another group of people that say okay well some minimal regulation in terms of let's not call you know a token that's a security not a security. I mean I can understand it from both points but I think it is important to understand the risk of regulation in terms of you don't want capture to run rampant through your economy and create giant monopolies. India, China and earth are excellent picks but the next exchange will be in North Korea but it won't look like it's in North Korea. That's the trick North Korean hackers need a place to sell their Bitcoin. Where are they going to get rid of them? They're going to have their own exchange. Moving on to issue three Bitcoin cash crash. Traderous exchange via BTC and they're despicable altcoin Bitcoin cash continued to make the news with the incredible end dramatic collapse of their price which is collapsed 26% with virtually non-existent trading volume. And this is ahead of the planned sell-off on August 1st once users can freely sell their Bitcoin cash without having to deposit their Bitcoin in the question of exchange. Toned base is this the beginning of the end for Bitcoin cash? I mean I never thought that it really had a beginning. I was I always thought of it as completely nuts. I don't understand why people thought that they would just get a bunch of free Bitcoin out of it. I was on a call this morning where I was just explaining to some people that no I still have a less than a 50% probability there was even going to be a hard fork on August 1st. I think they're going to find a way to weasel out of it and they're going to say there wasn't enough support. There's this enough and we're not going to hard fork for the good of the community. We will just wait for the segment to expire. I don't think it's going to happen but anyway but there'll be another guy that's going to want to execute the code. I have like a million speculations on this. So to me via BTC is just a subsidiary of BitMain and potentially Bitcoin.com and perhaps BitMain has 5% of hashing power. They are willing to give up and lose for a chance that it will be profitable. Now how can that be profitable? Well there's a small chance that BTC coins will actually be valuable. There is another small chance that some other hashing power will come in and they'll be able to sell different equipment to like different sides if there is like a proof of work change. Let's say I wanted to change. So they can sell more equipment. Another way is my silly speculation that Anthpool is like will allow people on Anthpool to mine BCC and Bitcoin.com already said they will allow people to mine BCC coins. So if a bunch of these pools are going to allow people to mine BCC and there is this media arm because again that people that are pushing for BCC have a lot of media control. They can actually profit from this if they can convince some dumb miners to move their hashing power to BCC even for a day or two. That gives the people that were pushing for via BCC coins. And BitMain would not move any of their hashing power to it but they would let the idiots on their pool do it so that they themselves would have a higher probability of mining real Bitcoin blocks. So they can actually make up for the loss of 5% of their hashing power. They give up the via BTC 5% hashing power. They convince 6% of all other Bitcoin hashing power to move over and now they have a 1% advantage once again on mining traditional blocks. So this is like yeah I'm giving up $500 to this guy so I can make $600 from that guy. So there are ways for them to do it. I mean I think this is totally silly. Just I'm going to close off on what I think it would do to the price. I think this whole BCC hard fork nonsense is the only thing that has kept Bitcoin from shooting up to $4,000 leading into the segment activation date which has just been moved up to August 8th. I still think it's going to be August 11th for some reason but one of my reasons is if they do hard fork to the stupid cash thing and 5% to 10% of mining power moves to it for a day or two that would have less hash power on the original chain hence slowing down the creation of blocks pushing that date back out to my now famously predicted August 11th day from three years ago. So I'm still hoping for that in a way I'm hoping to be right. However what it would do to the price if it wasn't for this hard fork coming in August 1st can't blame the hat this time right not us doing this was moved over. I think this would have been mass buying into Bitcoin and the segment activation on August 8th August 11th whatever would have been a seldom use event like price would bid up just like in the having the price went up way before the having but the actual day of the having we were really down 15% like over the previous week that would have been my scenario because of this hard fork scare and people like trying to get free Bitcoin taking the money of exchanges they don't want to trade this has been depressing the price the last few weeks now everyone's waiting for August 1st in three days I think the price will be near all time high going into August 1st when this dumb disaster flops around August 2nd August 3rd there will be a mass rush back into Bitcoin where instead of segment activation being a sell event sell the news event it becomes a buy event because people were scared to speculate on segwood because of external news and now we have segwood coming in we have the hard fork dying out this can drive the Bitcoin price to four to five thousand dollars in August into September and then the drums for two acts and you promised and you signed an agreement the drums would start beating going into September and then we take a little break once again Blake Anderson can I interest you in a blind carbon copy blind carbon copy I mean that's really like let's let's make a blind carbon copy of a coin and then call it blind carbon copy and say that it's going to win out in the end I think it's just very very funny it's kind of like you know a Freudian slip almost that's I don't know it's just really funny to me I don't know it's these people want to fork off they want to get their alt coin this is one of the ways that you can make an alt coin that you can get in on and if it's way low you can try to go way up coins rarely fail and go completely away if there's this much attention on them and stuff so I'm not as confident as tone that it's not going to happen at all but even if it does happen I don't think that the long-term impact on Bitcoin is going to be serious I don't think that anything that does not offer a categorically superior value proposition is not going to compete very well with Mac Daddy Bitcoin so I guess those are my thoughts on it Jeffrey Jones is too Bitcoin still better than one so I think that we still have a lot of dumb money in the space call me crazy I still think that there's a lot of people that don't understand the history of Bitcoin don't understand the actual value proposition of Bitcoin which of course is this open decentralized open decentralized permissionless network this monetary system outside of the state that could potentially rise up the entire planet right so people are still they're just stuck in this oh dollar science a theorem dollar science dollar science you know a lot of people in the space are just wanting to know you know fluffy pony really experiences this a lot and he likes to troll people you know people are asking him what are you going to do you know Ricardo what are you going to do with Manero you know I was just trolling somebody on twitter the other day saying that the you know the vortex investment trust was very seriously thinking about becoming a becoming an affiliate or a member of the Manero enterprise alliance you know and of course some guy bought it up completely like oh really what are you guys going to do in another things you know which of course I've probably told you I got more of those enterprise alliances which which of course I have promptly told him that of course yes the very first thing we're going to do is make sure that we produce the best software that toaster ovens can ever run and so you know we'll see what happens but so what what I'm thinking is that because of all the dumb money in the space is still here there will be some people that will think that BCC might or BCH I'm not going to call it BCC BCH right might actually have have a mining community have a community enough to give it a viable price there really is because people look at Ethereum and Ethereum Classic they tend to always use this example you know because this is kind of the only biggest example that we have and they always point to say Ethereum and Ethereum Classic is combined value bigger than Ethereum was before and so you know there's a lot of people that think this might actually happen like that of course all of the people the hardcore people in Bitcoin you know the people that have been here for years we understand that this is just a fork altcoin anybody at any time for the past eight years could come and just fork Bitcoin so this is really this this probability and probability has always been upon us but never really executed so this might actually be the first time that we get to see what happens when somebody tries to go ahead and fork Bitcoin and still call it Bitcoin there's not there's not hasn't been a whole lot of that yet obviously Charlie Lee forked Bitcoin to create Litecoin and changed a few things right so this this these people aren't going away anytime soon so unfortunately I believe that this this crap altcoin might actually get a price somewhere and somebody willing to mine it but it really it's just not it's just going to tank it's just not there's no way that it's sustainable for any type of you know multiple hundred dollar value or something like that that it's currently trading in the futures just ridiculous of course now it's completely crashed so if anybody is going to actually risk their Bitcoin by sending that to VABTC you know I wish you luck but understand that this is this is a public service this is our own public service announcement don't freaking send your coins to VABTC you know because you you have no idea what this centralized entity is going to do and so you know toss up at this point to figure out what's going to happen because nothing like this has ever happened before so everybody is just kind of trying to figure out what's going to happen but what I can tell you is that this coin is not going to retain value it is not it does not have the developers that Bitcoin has it has literally like one or two developers I mean that I've never heard of before so I mean you just look at you just see what the hell is going to happen I really don't think it's going to put that much pressure on Bitcoin and all put that much you know take the view away from Bitcoin because we have seen that what like was told was saying we have seen it tank the price a bit in multiple times and if they're always going to have something up there sleeve to try to bring down the price of Bitcoin which they seem to be able to do temporarily but yeah this is just another attempt to bring the price down what's what's bch so bch is what bit for next I believe or one of those exchanges decided to call bcc because bcc technically has already taken from another coin so they couldn't listed as bcc so they opted to instead listed as bch so what is the h stamp for no freaking clue oh yeah because I because I was kind of calling it bcs oh Bitcoin cash came to us the first character they had available after the bc simply when it is that that's basically what it is I was calling it the Bitcoin cash cam bcs I like that better I like that much better I want to ask you for tech so you had made a mention to low stakeholder money or basically dumb money that's coming into the space it's actually a chart of people that got involved in Bitcoin early in the ratio of those people that went into develop and try to learn more versus the ratio of people that learn about later and that they do that and there's be got like the deviation between people that are low information stakeholders versus the people that really get involved is like that divergence is growing exponentially all the time what do you think about the impact later on of a whole bunch of stakeholders has all this new money flows into Bitcoin being extremely low information holders in terms of the network like how do you think that's going to impact the future for techs because you pointed to it and I think you're right so what I really think is that these people are that are all in you know an ethereum and all in these other all queens and in bcc or whatever it is that these dumb things they're not going to be able to be smart enough to get out I think that they're all going to lose money when the stuff tanks when Ethereum tanks when bcc tanks I think that there's the because again they're dumb money it's dumb money I really think that there's going to be a specific event where a perfect storm wave comes in and wipes these pigs out there's always going to be a perfect storm for Bitcoin right there's always a perfect storm event we have a segwit that that was a perfect storm event to to get segwit activated there's always going to be something because the pressure incentives are there to create these events to make them come into being you can literally bet and guarantee I tried to tell people that things when when when it was that when segwit the earlier this year with activation was at its lowest you know I tried to tell people there will be an event there will be something that comes along and triggers because this is how fast things can change in Bitcoin things change absolutely fast and literally a month after I said that we had uasf yeah tech speed is fast it's almost like all the bulls and the bears are sitting sitting in our pins are our pens and all the pigs are flooding into this one huge pen and all the pigs are like look at all your stupid bulls and bears we're all like that pen is not the pen that you want to be in they're all like well whatever and then eventually when they all get slaughtered we're going to be like we tried to tell you not to go into that pen and remember this is interesting now because this is Bitcoin too it won't be as fun when it's Bitcoin Ocho so let's move on to the next topic also I love the internet of things because it's where I keep all my stuff so exit question force prediction tone veys the price of Bitcoin cash on august 2nd 24 hours after the activation firebox Jeffrey Jones yeah it's going to be between one and fifty dollars at the absolute most one Satoshi or less five dollars sounds pretty fair but it could also be zero moving on to issue four cryptocurrency judgment a florida judge has handed down a decision in the class action lawsuit against kripsy by its customers kripsy the now legendary altcoin exchange has been ordered by the judge to pay its customers 8.2 million dollars in damages the only problem is the CEO Paul Vernon believed to be somewhere in Asia has not responded to the complaint Blake Anderson will the kripsy users ever see any of their funds again that's the thing about the new wild west of crypto and all that stuff because it's you know censorship resistant money which is good but also like if you go and get a court settlement and like you use the law to you know figure out justice and you know if you want to get your money back like let's say from butterfly labs for totally like mining on your equipment making just a ton and ton of ton of money trying to actually use the legal system to go and actually get your hands on that value and get it back can be very very difficult if somebody is clearly a criminal and there you know a broad and they need to be brought back and they say you know play ball to try to get their freedom maybe you can get some of those coins out of them but somebody that's just done you know some kind of a scam where it's you know we can garnish your wages but we can't really put you in prison it's like well my wages are in Bitcoin so you know go lay an egg and that might be an issue Jeffrey Jones the outing money and cryptocurrency you're gonna see it again oh my gosh these exchanges um you know when your exchange trades like over 50 different freaking coins that you've never heard of the odds are of it being around in a year are become that much less likely so these types of exchanges that just have all of these all coins which is why I would agree with Tony where he's like why the hell did Coinbase ever start supporting other coins look what did they did when the happened look what happened when they started supporting aetherium we had the freaking Ethereum split and they lost tons of money and confidence and uh so it's it's really a really give away a really good giveaway when to show how many coins in exchange actually supports if it's if it's just a ton of ton of ton of coins you know again it is early days too because we know where people are trying to make money and things like that but over time you're gonna see these exchanges hold less and less coins uh because of the liability and some exchanges don't want to exit scam you know there's some exchanges like like Bitrix and others and you know that are doing pretty decent but when you start holding enough all coins there will be some kind of vulnerability eventually you can try to protect as much as you want but there's going to be something that you're not going to be able to predict like the Ethereum class exploit and things like that that's going to happen and and screw up your exchange so if it's not if you're not running from regulation if you're not running from hackers if you're not running from Russian mobs or whatever with drug money you know uh with crazy stuff like that uh something is gonna get you the more lucky seven coin remember lucky seven coin it was like a Trojan in the very like design of its software wallet or whatever like yeah you got to be you got to be clever and sharp and it's worth noting if you're a trader and you have a bad feeling about the exchange don't leave your money in there overnight there's no reason to take unnecessary risks i remember one time i logged into an exchange where the interface felt kind of clunky like an old php app and the name just didn't seem right and years later we found out that exchange was mount gox tone based your thoughts on the cryptsy judgment well i'm going to actually follow up with what you said with our coin base taking this on i remember one coin base started listing um old coins and i was making fun of them and what i said well coin base was intimately involved in the cryptsy scam because they cashed out the poll vernan's millions of dollars essentially like btc dashy caching out the mount gox exactly so you would think that if any exchange is intimately familiar of what happens running an old coin exchange it would be coin base and my view was huh maybe coin base wants to be wants to exit scam like cryptsy did so to have all these coins right so we'll see we'll see what that brings them in addition oh man i was gonna say something else i already forgot i'm not front how did you start off what was the crimsy judgment coin base oh yeah the judge okay so obviously you're not getting any of that i mean you you're not getting any of that my back oh this is what i was going to say so right now what happens with poloniacs poloniacs would give you you don't have to do kyc in order to withdraw up to two thousand dollars worth of crypto a day and this was perfectly fine for many people until a theory on what up 20x and like a light coin went up like 10x and manero went up and everything went up so you have actually a lot of people with significant amount of money sitting on poloniacs and poloniacs isn't doing anything to kyc them so they are unable to withdraw money off of that exchange and they're getting real real nervous i don't know if you've seen these stories on reddit they're coming out as well with this like people are like really get nervous because they're trying to get poloniacs to kyc them but they're just not responding which makes people even more nervous um i think this is gonna be a bad cycle and it's a self-fulfilling cycle because if one guy doesn't get his a payout he starts a reddit thread saying that they're getting ready to exit scam other people start panicking and then all of a sudden they force the panic onto poloniacs and you're sitting there going well if people are coming after me with pitchforks a minus will run away with the body so and um and speaking of which i am actually going to check my account one more time because two hours ago there was a payment sent to me from coin base and i'm still waiting for it and the coin base is not a wallet well coin base has a wallet right and um if you have your bitcoin at coin base it should be an instant payment it may not confirm instantly but it should notify the other party instantly it has now been two and a half hours since a payment was sent to me from coin base and from a person and it's not coming in and that person happens to have a colleague that said that they sent the payment about seven hours ago and that payment still hasn't notified the other party that there's a payment coming in so let's see am i about to start a panic and a run on the bank on coin base you heard it here first real life news that payments from the coin base wallet are taking at the minimum two and a half hours to even notify the receiving party that there's a payment coming in every time i talk to something to look around this industry in a few years and just see a series of exit scams because what you're saying is right once you've had some kind of an error or a hacker 30% 20% of the funds are gone maybe an airplanes flying over your house really low but once you've had that happen there's almost no reason not to exit scam you're going to be accused of an exit scam you're not going to be able to prove your innocence and if you take the money and run at least you have the money but i and i always take it back to like if you're accused of cheating by your wife or your girlfriend and if she's so if she's 100% sure you've cheated at that point you might as well go and do it right because what what's the point if you're going to be accused of it anyway you might as well read the rewards i guess right i don't know about that my my favorite uh parable for that is like if you're a child and your parents are mad at you for doing something you didn't do and they're really mad at you then go do it i don't know i don't know if cheating is the same thing but i definitely would say that you know if your parents get mad at you for something you didn't do go go and do it well let's not start signing up for Ashley Madison and just let's move on to the exit question how many more Bitcoin exchanges will have to collapse until people stop storing their coins on exchanges Jeffrey Jones many many more unfortunately tone veys yeah this isn't gonna stop i mean we could have been asking this question you know before Bitcoin came into existence like Bernie made off like let's see let's see how many more hedge funds are gonna run away with people's money and stuff and run yeah and run uh exactly and i mean i worth it bear sturns i mean these things are coming i mean just uh what we'll see what happens next you know we'll we'll see how many of these uh traditional companies there are now being disrupted by technology let's see how many of them are you know running on Ponzi schemes and promising people all their pensions are there and then nothing Blake Anderson well definitely at least a few more like every every time i talk to my dad about Bitcoin hope that what did anybody replace coinbase yet is anybody competing with them yet and i'd be like no dad he's like the second somebody replaces that with something that works well it's gonna be to the moon and he's not an expert in the space or anything but it's funny because he feels very strong in that way and i mean it's that's talked to disagree with him too too harshly i mean now that Charles Lee isn't a coinbase anymore it's it's really hard for me to find things to say about them on a daily basis so i mean i appreciate all the work that they've done and stuff but i think they need to really start getting it together in terms of scaling and not uh uh you know having slow transactions during these really visceral up and down times because the transactions going in and out and being able to you know liquidate and buy back in during these visceral up and down times that's key we need to get that user experience down and then that's um that i think that coinbase is actually a roadblock in that regard i don't know why they don't seem to care about getting that right but they just really don't seem to it's it's unbelievable and i understand there's a risk of theft but there needs to be an app that's on your iPhone that you scan your credit card types your name in and you buy bitcoins five minutes later that's it no more steps that's it apps over we did it shows over we're moving on to predictions or a story of the week Blake Anderson you're ready with a prediction or a story of the week um yeah i guess my story of the week is that i was contacted by john's Hopkins University to potentially do it i talk about the future in 10 years at their university which would be really really cool um 10 years is really conjecturally deep into the what if bag so i guess that what i would talk about is the version of the future that we're going to get if we reorganize around you know sound money and markets or the version of the future that we're going to get if we continue to allow human action to be defused through inflation and i'm really excited about that um obviously john's Hopkins University is extremely prestigious and they contacted me and uh first thing i did was you know email to my dad it was like i'm proud of you son so that's my story the week i'm on cloud nine and i feel really really really really happy as an auto-dye to act and assembly that i tried to teach myself as much as i could that tried to study things that i thought were cool and interesting um that's kind of uh to to to to be invited anywhere to talk about anything when that was your goal is um really really special for me and i i feel happy about that that's my story the week great job Blake and congratulations on the speaking agreement we look to see it soon Jeffrey Jones you're a story of the week i guess my story of the week would just be um i just want to give so much you know thanks and props to all the content creators out in the space because i'm just seeing the numbers go crazy you know from all sorts of different shoutouts to to add a myster and you know even i'm not your lawyer you know jason seagull tone veys uh just so many people out there are many you know many pee um even there's just there's just there's just so many people out there that that i'm seeing all their numbers right completely raised over 10,000 subscribers everybody in the space their twitter followers are going up i looked at tour demesters followers the other day there are over 30,000 followers like everybody in the space is just completely being uplifted with the price and with with the innovation and with the information that that that is going around that bitcoin is just bringing to people the bitcoin is forcing people to research and so i i guess i just got to say just big props big thanks to everybody like so much like thank you guys so much for the views thank you so much for the comments uh what i'm i what am i shows recently went over 11,000 views like you know this is the space is is taking off and i'm just so excited to be at the forefront of it and to be talking to you guys and to bringing you guys the truth and we just are just absolutely thankful for for you guys and your support with with the wcn and all of us indeed very exciting times tone vey story of the week um you know i'm gonna follow up on that and um i crossed 10,000 twitter followers around like the beginning of the month i don't remember which month either at the beginning of this month but the beginning of last month and i'm almost the 20,000 twitter followers already it's insane how it's picking up right now um so my both my predictions and story of the week were covered uh i covered them i guess i said them too early i talked about my price prediction in that we're gonna meander for the next couple of days we're gonna be sitting right at all time high and the moment uh bcc is the the price of bitcoin is gonna shoot up i'm looking at four to five thousand dollars and then a dip in september that's kind of a long term price prediction my story of the week is what happened this morning with uh coin base not sending uh bit coin on behalf of their people of their wallet uh let's see how that ends and uh to follow up on Blake said on the speaking calendar um yesterday i was added to two uh upcoming events one is over in Toronto it's like and it's uh Toronto bitcoin meetup it's gonna be very good at the title is a theory on versus bitcoin i was just added to a panel to talk there and from there i'm shooting straight over to russia and i'll speak in st peter's berg i believe that one is august 16th and the toronto one is august 14 so if you're in those cities i will be at those events i mean just google and uh come out and say hi a therian versus bitcoin that's not a fair fight but just like to thank everybody for watching remind everyone to give us a thumbs up and a share to go and subscribe down below uh thanks to everyone for putting up with the advertisements we're doing really well on views and we hope that'll help us do really well on ads if you don't like ads give youtube red a try that also adonates money to the people that you watch or get an ad blocker uh if you'd like to support our patreon campaign we've got the link down below next week we hope to start uh recognizing patreon's more so if you want to be a part of that donate now as always we're going to show our bitcoin address at the end but it's been a really fun week with tone in san sisco and we've got jeff out here now and i'd just like to ask everybody out there if you're in san francesco and you want to hang out with us tonight we're going to my buddy jaxon palmer creator doge coignan and i might heard him we're going to his decentralized drinks tonight around 5 30 at zeit guys come on down and there'll be we've been discussing it there will be amazing changes coming to the world crypto networks so definitely watch out listen out for announcements uh things are going to get great we want to we want to be the uh crypto channel in the space and we're we're about to start doing amazing things here stay tuned i just anchor in the co look on a lot of new ideas and stuff so we just want to show you one more time the donation address we'd like to send a few bitcoins go and pause the screen but we're out of time until next time bye bye bye bye