The Bitcoin Group, the American Original. For over the last ten seconds, the sharpest Satoshi's, the best Bitcoins, the hardest cryptocurrency talk. We'd like to welcome our panelists. Theo Goodman from HASS Online. Good evening, blockchain. Gabriel Devon from Future Rent. Thank you for having me. Tone Vays from Liberty Life Trail. Hey everyone. Finally, I have a webcam, so now I can like, not get bored and fill from different parts of the house. Jeffrey Jones from the Bitcoin News Show. Hello, thanks for having me. Hello Internet, hello Bitcoin. And I'm Thomas Hunt from the World Crypto Network, moving on to issue one. Banks push for an easing of money laundering rules. The financial regulations placed upon banks after the 9-11 attacks and strengthened by the Obama administration are under attack. Clearing house, a trade association representing the banks claims that the rules are onerous and ineffective and is calling for them to be revamped and likely weakened. Theo Goodman, I ask you, if the money laundering laws are weakened in the United States, is this a good thing? Well, that's just like everything. There's two sides to the coin, even if that is a Bitcoin. But I've gone through the article and I'm going to do a screen share to share the most important points that I found that are interesting. It says, according to the article, do you see my screen share? Okay, I'm going to assume you do. Just flying with anti-mondering laundering rules, including the manpower needed to file suspicious activity reports cost US companies as much as $8 billion a year. So that's a lot of money. And if they get rid of the regulation, well, I guess those people will just find other jobs. But that is a lot of money that is spent just on that per year. Also for all you blockchain consultants, here's your chance. Right now, check it out. The clearinghouse will also call for the creation of an information sharing platform that will allow banks to share data among themselves with possible criminal transactions. There's your use case right there for the blockchain technology. Guys, get it. I'm sure you'll get a nice contract and check this out. There's a cool chart. So, there's a lot of money that's spent on suspicious activity reports. They're just going through the roof. Very bullish on that. Now, I don't know if that means there's more suspicious activity. There's more workers that are detecting this suspicious activity. Or there's some motivation to report more activity. Or there's more activity. I don't know. And I don't see how you can get that out of this. But there's a lot more reported. I think that maybe it could do some good to take a look at this and reform it. I agree, Theo. It's time to put that suspicious activity on a blockchain. Just a reminder for all of our viewers to please like and thumbs up this show and to push share. It really helps us get more viewers. And thanks to everyone who's joining us live. Tone Bayes. Well, actually this. I don't think this is great for Bitcoin. I think this is pretty bad for Bitcoin. It is very good for society now. So I've been saying that for a long time. So as far as Bitcoin is concerned, what gives Bitcoin value is bigger regulations because then Bitcoin becomes more useful to get around those regulations. Now if the regulations get relaxed, then Bitcoin isn't really all that useful. And I always say if the governments want to eliminate Bitcoin, all they got to do is legalize drugs, remove money laundering, legalize gambling, legalize prostitution, lower taxes. You do all that. And who needs Bitcoin? It probably wouldn't have been invented. If the government start treating money as property, you really wouldn't need Bitcoin. And I'm just going to also share my screen for one second here. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. I want to go here. And it's an article that I wrote a while back that basically talks about this. It's titled when banks become law enforcers. I wrote this for coin telegraph over two years ago. So if you want to just Google that when banks become law enforcers, and I talked about this, all these silly laws like F bar and fat car and how Bitcoin users really really need to be careful because they're in violation of all these laws of because money is a crime. I've been talking about this for a very long time. Right. That's a heck of a platform for tone 2020. It applies everything, but it is bad for Bitcoin. Vortex, your thoughts. Yeah, you know, this is definitely some interesting news. But to me, I think like the other panelist said, this is needed long needed to have reform. When all criminals, when everybody's a criminal, right, it's hard for law enforcement or anybody to figure out who's the actual criminal, right? Because according to money laundering laws and stuff, how it is right now, everybody's a criminal by default first. And then they go and check your stuff, right? So I definitely, you know, I agree with tone that this is probably isn't good for Bitcoin, but the thing is that there's no way that the regulations will ever be laxed enough, like all the tone, all the things tone just mentioned. They're never going to legalize prostitution. They're never Italy. As all of these things, like it would take decades and decades to legalize all that stuff. So Bitcoin, Bitcoin's honey badger don't care, right? It's just going to keep on going just because they're never going to relax the regulations enough to make Bitcoin irrelevant, not going to happen. So with that, you know, we'll see what happens, but definitely we need some freaking reform on these money laundering laws. Decades and decades are a single vote for tone 2020. Let's check in with Gabriel D. Vaughn. Is the hammering still continuing? Yeah, seems to be pretty hammery over here, but we'll see what happens. We'll see if we hear anything here. Yeah, I was just going to say that seems like a pretty typical money saving tactic from the financial industry. Look, they're seeing the Trump administration come in and claim, you know, they've got the lift service that they want to make regulations more lenient. You know, the Republican business friendly approach, they've got the slip service. So the banking and financial industry is just trying to take advantage of that. I don't think it's particularly interesting. I don't think that they're going to get very far actually. And what I'm preparing myself for is lipstick on a pig. I think we're going to see like some tiny corner case being sort of loosened in the regulations while the rest of the regulations continue to get more draconian. That's my prediction. Tightening and tightening. Let's move on to the exit question. The banks will get their way. Yes or no, Theo Goodman. The banks will get their way in that this regulation will be at least taken out and reduced and so on. Yeah, I think so. Less money laundering rules. Gabriel, divine. Can you repeat the question? I was listening to hammering. Drill. The banks get their way. Will there be less money laundering rules? I'm going to say yes, but then they'll not get their way directly after that. Toned vase. The panel continues to drift towards the banks. I'm going to say yes as well. However, I think the banks will get their way in that they won't have to be as much of a policeman on the flip side. I think the money laundering laws and penalties. I think they will be more severe is just that the banks are going to try and not to be responsible for being this deputy policeman in the same. I think everyone gets the point. But I think FACC is going to be really bad. Hopefully Trump will remove that piece of legislation. I think they're going to just create bigger and bigger crimes. I'm like, you'll go away for your life if you're a tax evader. They're already going to take away your passport if you owe taxes. I think the penalties will go up, but the government will have to come up with their own agency in order to get it done. Bring back the debtors prison, Jeffrey Jones. Yeah, I think that the banks will always get their way in the confines of the system that they built. So Bitcoin of course represents a system outside of the banking system, outside of the current financial system and government system. So I think that they're going to definitely always get their way within their own system, but Bitcoin will continue to make their system less and less and less. The answer is yes, the banks will get their way. I've only spoken to one anti-money laundering expert, but surprisingly this is exactly the issue he mentioned. This suspicious activity reports. The banks have to file too many of them. The banks file too many to try to cover their own ass, another acronym. And it's a disaster. The government has too many reports. The banks are filing on everything. They're not catching more terrorists. We're catching less. The rules go. Moving on to issue two. Issue two, the price of Bitcoin continues to rise. Despite a third Chinese exchange this time, BTCC, halting withdrawals and strengthening their anti-money laundering practices. Meanwhile, a Chinese official went on state television saying that Bitcoin would continue to exist. In fact, adding that it cannot be killed. Is the Bitcoin and China situation settled news? Has it been completely factored into the price of Bitcoin? Is this the story that once caused massive shifts in Bitcoin's price suddenly no longer a factor? Gabriel, D.Van. It's actually quite confusing, I have to say. The question, you ask really good questions here. The reason why I say it's confusing, of course, is because nobody really knows why any market action happens. Even in the mainstream markets where there's a lot of media coverage, a lot of interviews, a lot of funds and hedge funds where there's people going on record saying what they do and some transparency in investment portfolios. Even there, you never really know who's doing what and why the market's going up or down at any given point. You can only make guesses. In Bitcoin, it's got several additional layers of anonymity involved. It's really hard to say. You might have a situation where there was a lot of people outside of China doing training on Chinese exchanges to take advantage of the wash trading. They all left because they can't take Bitcoin out of the exchanges and they have to use Chinese banks now to move yuan's in and out. Maybe they're just gone and they're just not even paying attention anymore. Maybe it was Peabuck Insiders doing trading ahead of the decisions that they knew about and they just stopped because they can't move their Bitcoin out in and out of the exchanges now. It's really hard to determine what's going on, but we can say for certain that the wash trading has moved to Japan and that trading in other countries has been picking up a lot this year, especially like India, which I have been expecting for a long time, South America. It's a very volatile and unpredictable situation with what kind of news is going to result in what kind of price movements. As far as the Peabuck and what they're doing, I would agree with the general consensus lately that this does not appear to be crackdown in any sense. Instead, quite the opposite, I'm still of the opinion that the people's making China sees Bitcoin as a wedge that they can use against Dollar-Hijemini and they are attempting to drag the Bitcoin exchange scene in China into the modern era with their heavy-handed regulation. Petro Dollar meet Petro Bitcoin and welcome to Japan the new leader in Bitcoin volume, Tom Vays. It's very interesting about Japan being the leader in Bitcoin volume, especially since they're the ones that are about to come out with the strictest regulations following the bit license. I haven't looked at those numbers on the volume numbers. Do we know if they've been normalized for currency trading because a US dollar is worth like 100 Japanese yen. The person that put out the volume numbers, did they normalize for currency? Does it have the highest volume in US D terms, if you convert? Otherwise that's silly. Then you have to divide it by 100. You really got to be careful with a lot of these statistics and numbers. Sorry, what was the question? Why is China suddenly not a factor in the Bitcoin price? Can say, Chinese exchanges have blocked withdrawals? That's exactly why. Chinese exchanges have blocked withdrawals. A lot of that volume was bullshit. We knew it was bullshit. Again, if I share screen for one second here, this was the Brave New Coin Liquid Index and the only Chinese exchange in the syntax is BTC China, who was legit and then all of a sudden between November and January, they decided to join the rest of the Chinese exchanges with no fees and all the other nonsense and look at this volume and now look, we're back to not even being visible on my chart. So now let me stop share screen at this point. I've been talking about the bullshit Chinese volume for a really long time. I don't have to talk about it anymore. That's about it. People are getting nervous. I've been spreading a lot of fud that the Chinese government is within jurisdiction to confiscate non-Chinese nationals' bitcoins. You should be careful about putting your bitcoins on any of these. You have to be careful about putting your bitcoins on any exchange because you lose control of your private key. You have to be especially careful in putting your bitcoins on an anonymous, unregulated exchange. But you have to be just as careful in putting your bitcoins on an unregulated exchange outside of the regulation of your jurisdiction. The US exchange has got regulated out of existence. There's no more trade hill and no one else was even able to do it. But in the case of China, if you're a US citizen and you put your bitcoins on a Chinese exchange that are being regulated, they're not being internationally regulated. They're not being regulated based on US standards. They're being regulated based on Chinese standards. So if the Chinese regulation says we can take your bitcoins as a US national because of anti-money laundering laws in China, there is nothing you can do about that. You can't sue OK coin because that's the government's regulation on that. And I know I'm spreading this fud because I don't want people to lose any more bitcoins. Hold on to your bitcoins. No one is forcing you to trade. No one is forcing you to put bitcoin on these exchanges. So that's pretty much my view on it. I always thought that the only bitcoins price that mattered was the USD price because the USD is a world reserve currency. It's as simple as that. Don't over complicate them up. At least it's the world reserve currency for now. Jeffrey Jones. Yeah, you know, I guess I just have to echo a lot with the other panelists said. I see this as a positive. I definitely don't see this as a crackdown in any way, shape or form. If they wanted to make it illegal, they would just make it illegal. If they wanted to wipe their hands with it, this would have been done. But that's clearly not the case. We're getting nothing but positive sentiment from Peabock and other places that are actually just saying that they leave in Bitcoin. They're not going to make it illegal. They want to help it. And so by further integrating these exchanges into their financial system, it seems to me that it's a very clear play and a clear move that they want this to last the day. They want this to be like everybody else said they want this to be their kind of they're shining weapon against the US dollar. So and even if they don't, they definitely see it as a possibility. Again, it will just make it illegal. So everybody understands that all the volume was BS from China and that's been said. But I do think that we're probably going to see a similar crackdown in Japan pretty soon if they just keep up the zero trading fees. Because I mean zero trading fees is not good for the market. It's not good for anyone really. It just creates horrible conditions that just creates all of these slides and prices up and down. So I do will I will say that I absolutely love seeing Bitcoin price go up. You know, despite the fact that the withdrawals have been in place now both Bitcoin and Litecoin. And now three all three major exchanges now are you know, stopping withdrawals and of course they stated that it's temporary. But still Bitcoin don't care. It just keeps going up. And so that's absolutely wonderful and we'll just have to see what happens. Can I just I can jump in here real quick to just that one thing. What I do like is that it sounds like the Chinese government is not scared of Bitcoin and that's important. And I think that's a very good thing. The fact that they're not scared. So that's the one thing I wanted to add the other thing I wanted to add as far as Bitcoin being frozen yet the price going up. It could be like one of these things where Bitcoin's frozen and people are a little nervous. And they don't want to get caught like they like many having the past where you know Bitcoin gets frozen and the price goes up without them and then they get priced out. So it's possible that people whose Bitcoin got frozen one out and both Bitcoin by other means just as a hedge like okay I had a risk. You know I had a hundred Bitcoin 20 of them were on exchanges at risk. All of a sudden is frozen. I don't know if I'm going to get the 20 back. I like the nice round number of a hundred. Let me start hitting up local bitcoins and I'm going to make sure I have a hundred in case something happens to those on the exchange. Did you just I'm just throwing it out Bitcoin the only thing so great that if you lose it you just buy more the old goodman. Actually I just want to clear up something that I think a lot of people have been confused on and understandably it can be somewhat confusing. And I have the screen share going on if I can find it own it. Okay hold on just a moment. So there's more than one okay coin. Okay so okay coin dot com is not located in China. So let's just you know because I've been accused of this. I don't know that somehow I'm spreading fud about this. I just want to clear it up. Okay coin dot com is worldwide digital trading platform etc etc. It's a Singapore registered company and its operations are located outside of China. So just so there's okay coin dot CN and there's okay coin dot com and they are indeed two different companies. So when you a lot of times the crypto rags and other news media get it mixed up themselves sometimes or they don't make a clear distinction and people get confused and they think one thing but that's not exactly true. So just to now sure the people that invested in okay coin dot com are in China but the company itself is outside of China. So it's not exactly the same. So just keep that in mind when you read things and you're wondering about what people are talking about and if you're confused those are indeed two different things. Yeah I think that sure it's not negative and yeah think about in 2013 and 2014 how many times you heard China banned Bitcoin. China banned Bitcoin. China banned Bitcoin. Oh look another crypto rack published a horribly translated Google translate version of some kind of Chinese press release that was done by someone on Chinese version of Fiverr. Yeah again and again and again and so of course the market is a little bit numb to these reports. There's already been a big sellout there already was some big dumps already. So maybe the for for the time being the market had enough of that let's just see what happens. Excellent points let's move on to the exit question the price of Bitcoin this time next week higher or lower Gabriel divine higher tone ways. I'm going to stick with higher that's what I've kind of been saying the last few months. Jeffrey Jones. Yep we are definitely in this bull market and this bull market is not even close to have seen the end of it yet so no it's going to be higher. Theo Goodman. $888 down. And Theo breaks the trend other than that we have a clean sweep we all think it's going higher and you know what I think moving on to issue three Bitcoin ETF. The entire Bitcoin market appears to be on edge waiting for the results of the SEC's decision on the Winkle by ETF and analysis on seeking alpha claims that the probability of the ETF being approved has been mis evaluated as a very low chance. Well they believe the actual odds are more one out of three if approved the ETF could cause the Bitcoin price to skyrocket. If rejected it could cause a Bitcoin price to fall as disappointed speculators exit the market tone ways your thoughts on the Bitcoin ETF. All right well I haven't overestimated the possibility of the Bitcoin ETF happening look I've been saying for at least a year probably closer to two years that now the Bitcoin ETF is going to be a lot of money. The Bitcoin ETF is not only stupid it's not going to pass and I don't know why people think that it will it's just nonsense now of course I could be totally wrong. I give it a 10% chance that the SEC will pass it I give it like a 3% chance that will pass it in March I give it like a 50% chance that there's just going to move the deadline. And I give it maybe a 10% chance that they're going to pass it just so dumb and I don't know how many people hit me up like on Twitter like all the time with these ETF questions and like a common question that I get is hey tone so if there's an ETF what happens if Bitcoin unlimited forks Bitcoin. And my answer to them is no one knows what happens that's why the ETF is not going to pass just like think about your questions right like everyone's asking me like these what if questions like what if the ETF happens and then this and I'm like well because nobody knows what happens if this occurs it would be the dumbest thing in the world for the SEC to approve the ETF. And I will once again I'm not going to get into the details it's in all of their episodes. The biggest reason why the ETF is dumb is because the underlying asset can be hacked and it's a better asset and it can be stolen. So the responsibility of protecting that asset becomes a major major problem when you have an ETF. The other problem for an ETF is if they approve the winkel was Bitcoin ETF or about solid X or about very silver what about the next Joe's Joe's mode that's going to want to do it right also Wall Street Journal raised a good point we have never had an ETF where one entity is responsible for the security of the ETF. So the security of the underlying the price of the underlying and the I guess the maintainers I had the day raised a very good point I tweeted it out. Also the moment the Bitcoin ETF gets approved there will be a hundred entities filing an Ethereum ETF and then a dash ETF and then I'm a narrow ETF and then a light coin ETF and then I want coin ETF I would be the one fine I mean if I had some kind of a related business I would be filing the one coin ETF paperwork just to see if it gets approved for the hell of it right. I mean the whole idea of a Bitcoin ETF is just ridiculous not to mention it's a bad for Bitcoin I don't know why people think this is good for Bitcoin it's a giant honey pot it takes Bitcoin out of circulation it's ridiculous. I gave it was laughing like the Bitcoin ETF would be terrible for Bitcoin anyway I can go on and on but a lot of the panelists speak go for it. It's so hard to argue against your all your eggs in one basket point their tone that is really strong I think again we want the ETF because we want people to invest their retirement funds to invest their stock market funds and to gamble with us on Bitcoin and I think they want the large influx of funds that would drive the price up but it's hard to fight what you said about the security of the asset Jeffrey Jones. Yeah there's really not much to add I mean tone kind of covered at all but it's true it really is kind of a stupid idea it's definitely antithetical to Bitcoin however like you said Thomas there's there's only so long that people can hold out there's only so much time that people can hold out before Bitcoin goes to a thousand and five thousand and ten thousand people are going to want a piece of this they're they're just not going to let it pass them by so it's this huge struggle between you know the regulation and the fact that there's a lot of money. There's so many people on a Wall Street and other investors that want to make money off of Bitcoin but can't because you know they can't they're assets can't touch it or they can't touch it officially. So it's going to like I really think it's going to happen whether it's going to happen on March 11th that's anybody's guess but there's just only so much time that these people can wait and so I think that there's a small chance of the passing but whether it's good for Bitcoin only time can tell and yeah it's really an interesting time. If they start making also it's other ETFs like Tom said the Ethereum ETF oh man it's going to be an interesting time so really it's if it doesn't get past this year it will get past next year or the next year you know it's going to happen before the next having is my guess because that's when the world will really catch on and see that that's going to be really the big next big the next big huge price jump so if it's going to happen it is going to happen before the next having but we'll have to see his own. I agree Jeffery there is a demand there people want this thing and like Tom said we are afraid of the Ethereum one coin the multiple ETFs but there's another part of that where people are lazy they don't want to learn how to hold cryptocurrency they think it's difficult they want to call it their stock broker and buy it and be done with it they just want to hold it as an asset they don't want to know about private keys. The good man are people lazy enough to demand the ETF. Oh yes people are definitely lazy enough to demand the ETF and they're even beyond lazy enough to demand the ETF as a keyboard warrior on our Bitcoin RBTC reddit Twitter Instagram and Tumblr and all together. So if only the SEC would make their decision via internet poll we could get this thing done. Well yeah what it is actually is no I'm not a lawyer but they're not against Bitcoin per se they're just trying to figure out how to follow the rules that exist and it's not that complicated part of which we touched on. And we touched on last week we've touched on a few times on the world crypto network that's why you should always watch the old shows so here I've got another screen share and here on our Bitcoin someone posted a very good point and this is correct. The thing is right now what everyone is waiting for is just a proposed rule change so it's like this if they don't say anything by March 11th then it's the rule change is approved not the ETF just the rule change it doesn't necessarily mean the ETF is a yes. But they have to check look at some of these rules in order to fit the unique ETF of the Bitcoin ETF so that's why it's a little bit more complicated people think and that's the main reason why last week I predicted that it won't get approved. At this time that it's going to they're going to figure out another thing to delay I can bring it back up but they're going to figure out another thing yes yes. Now what's the rule I haven't really looked into it like what's the main rule that needs to be changed I think it's what you guys were about that the the day on of asset. You know what I mean that usually is not the case. The ability for one entity to be so involved in in the in the ETF in the offer in the ETF. Yeah yeah I think that's part of it and yeah I think that how can they establish that the Bitcoin is safe you know they have to somehow. They can't hold all you know like the Bitcoin like storage is said yeah right they have to make a rule for that right they have to have some kind of standard you can't I mean it's like it's like establishing that I mean it's not it's not that I mean it's like securing Bitcoin is like securing your nuclear power plant facility it's is basically it's. Yeah it's kind of it's almost the same thing. Sure so now I'm going to have to go back and look exactly but I believe those are around those two points are the main two points and you know it could be that they say okay even though you guys own so much of the you know all the Bitcoin basically of the ETF it's okay who knows it's even more complicated because. I was watching the I'm not your lawyer show and he did the he did the ETF and then it was about the involvement of the exchange Gemini. In the whole ETF thing and how that could work and all this it just seems like there's so many moving parts to this still I could easily see them saying hey the rule changes approve but we're not approving the ETF. Now or we're saying nothing it's approved by default or they say no rule change it could be all kinds of variations but I just don't see the pie in the sky this is approved and Bitcoin goes to the moon just because of it on March 11th I don't see a reason why that should happen. If they don't allow it I think the problem will be what tone saying next time too many ETFs next time there'll be too many and they'll have to let them through. Yeah yeah Gabe if you want to jump in now go for it. I was just talking on the chat here and somebody brought up the fact that. The Winkle Vi. They've got a hundred thousand coin and it's kind of strange like first of all why do they want to make an ETF because isn't it more. I can't tell you why. What's that? I can tell you why. Is it they think they can make more money off of the Bitcoin that they hold by allowing more people into the space or they just want the fees or what? They want the fees. They want the fees but I mean in my opinion if I had a hundred thousand Bitcoin I would not want to sell that off to a bunch of jackasses I would want to hold on to it. They wouldn't and they wouldn't sell it off they would they would use some of it to back the ETF but the moment money starts coming in to their organization they're going to go out on the open market and buy ETF for those people right like they don't they don't have to sell their own I mean they'll commit some but more likely they will be forced to use that hundred a thousand Bitcoin or whatever they have as like insurance right in case they want to. I mean they might have to lock it up I mean that's what I would do if I was if I was the SEC what I would do is I'm like I would say okay fine you guys have a hundred thousand Bitcoin you have to give up your Bitcoin in a multi-sig and use it as insurance versus a completely separate cold storage mechanism of the Bitcoin that your. That your claw that the people going into the ETF are purchasing right and all they're doing they're going to like just lock it up as an insurance mechanism and then they're going to have a whole other problem once the value of ETF goes above they are holding a Bitcoin but it should get very very complicated very very quickly. Yeah I agree with your nuclear power plant analogy there and I agree that in general an ETF is a cluster fuck I mean it's basically placing it's you know it's one of the myriad trust situations that you I mean it's called the Bitcoin investment I guess the the GBTC is called Bitcoin investment trust there's a reason why it's called trust you're trusting you know digital currency. Group or whoever's running that now to hold that Bitcoin and not lose it down the drain or where you know get stolen from them and to. But I think I think that one is a giant cluster fuck also but I haven't really looked that deeply into it I could be totally wrong but from my understanding of it as of today I think it's a giant mess that's like maybe not imminent to implode but it's going to implode in one way or another. Yeah I mean geez what's the lifespan of one of these trusts that's built a top you know a very minimal trust system there was a recent post by somebody there was some article that I read this week that completely sidestep the fact that you know the mining infrastructure spreads out risk so much that it almost entirely reduces trust and there was they were just making these tired arguments that you know we should trust. And so we're not just going to trust each other in society because it glues us together and it keeps us together just all the tired arguments of these idiots that are just completely downplaying the you know capture that we see every day in our society that's causing so many deaths and some are suffering anyways but it's just it's just so funny to see and I wonder what the lifespan is tone I mean you're you're really talking sense to me I'm definitely not you for it about the possibility of a Bitcoin ETF. It's it gets very like the if you really start thinking about it like it gets so complicated so quickly you also got to think about well what about the current all the current ETFs we have like I know we have some crazy ETFs out there the ZTFs the natural gas obviously GLD is the gold ETF and by the way the gold ETFs only going around like 10 or 15 years and these other ETFs obviously the SMP 500 ETF well you need the SMP 500 ETF because a person isn't able to do that. So it's also fairly simple to maintain the SMP 500 ETF because it kind of trades itself based off the value of the futures market of the SMP 500 and this plenty of arbitrage bots to make sure that they're in sync you also have something like Vanguard that will go out and they will buy those shares of those companies in their right proportion to maintain the value of that ETF. I mean this doesn't require any kind of security in the case of a gold ETF same thing I mean I go people asked for the gold ETF because guess what it's actually a lot more difficult to go out and buy gold in pieces and pay this monster premium on gold than it is in with Bitcoin and also it was just more standard again you have futures contracts for gold so there's plenty of arbitrage going on to keep the price of it perfectly stable versus the price of gold. These are deep markets they're very deep deep markets anyway guess the only the only argument for the creation of an ETF that someone can claim and it's hard for me to argue with versus me stating I don't like conspiracy theories is that it would be advantageous for the government to get this honey pot of Bitcoin and create one of these things that Bitcoin goes in never comes out but on the flip side if the if the SEC allows the CTF then are they legitimizing Bitcoin can not go against the federal government laws are they going to be interfering with Fin Sand laws IRS who knows right I mean this this decision isn't just the SEC they have to first decide what the hell Bitcoin is and guess what no one knows. Just a small correction I think somebody said 100,000 coins but they actually own a million coins because they were very specific about wanting to go and have an own 1% of the network so yeah which makes it even more insane right how do you secure a million freaking coins. Well, a million is like seven or eight percent one percent. Yeah, but yeah, so they've been able to secure them so far and I applaud them for that that's impressive right the question is will they be as secure if they now have to share the security of those coins again if I was able to secure my 1 million Bitcoin if I had any I wish if I was able to secure my 1 million Bitcoin the last thing I would want to do is outsource or share that security with others it's just more shit that can go wrong I don't understand. I mean they're probably not going to put the whole million in the ETF right they have to they could they could put half that in ETF and still have a successful ETF probably but still like you said it's yeah still it's still absolutely ridiculous to just but it also security on Wall Street. Yeah, but by the way this also like someone said why would they want to sell this many Bitcoins well you know what maybe they're looking to exit their position in Bitcoin and it's a little hard to get one of a million Bitcoins. It could be the other way though tone where they believe in Bitcoin so much they want to pump up their obviously huge position by bringing more Bitcoin users in with the ETF. Gabriel makes a really strong point that Satoshi gave us this fantastic decentralized asset and every chance we get we centralized it we create coin base we create change did we create this ETF we just endlessly want to just take this thing away from its true purpose and put it into a centralized database so that we can do all the old things to it and I agree the security process there but we want to lower the barriers to Bitcoin and get more people in I think that's what the Winklevine label. I'll throw another theory out there what I think their motivation might be is that they want to be more famous than Mark Zuckerberg and I think not just famous but also a million of these things and you can make the price is expected they say 1600 to 3200 is the new target if they're approved. That's fantastic. I think they just want to be like more globally known than Mark Zuckerberg and sitting on a million Bitcoins quietly is not going to get them there right I mean had they been evangelizing Bitcoin like Roger Vier they might be you know like Mark Zuckerberg but maybe that's not their personalities. I don't know the latest reports of Facebook they're not just going to connect the world they're going to save the world Zuckerberg he's a saint he might be president someday he's he's talking politics. They've got a ways to go if they want to catch him but I don't know for me there's just something amazing about having a million of anything and having it have such great value I also question I question the million I and I again I have no evidence of this if I had to guess I would say they might have like you know maybe 300 maybe up to 500,000 and the rest is like other investors that they're unofficially holding for right maybe they have some kind of a trust maybe they have something I find it hard to believe that just two of them own a million maybe they're maybe they're umbrella owns a million and a third of them are going to be a million. And a third of that is theirs or half of it is theirs I would be very surprised if they actually own a billion well it is another theory have another theory we don't know how many. Or how much a theory the vinkel by own because they did buy into a theory as well I don't even know how much a theory classic they have so they need the Bitcoin ETF to get approved so they can do the final knockout blow and get the a theory of ETF approved and exit both positions at the same time double dump. Fortunately no one knows how many total a theory and there are anyway let's go to Jeffrey Jones here go ahead. Yeah just really quick I just wanted to bring up the point you know that is a really good point that was that was brought up about how you know the wucle buy haven't exactly been evangelizing Bitcoin you know I mean they say they claim they care about it and they they they call themselves early investors and everything and they bought that stuff but that you know what's really interesting is that they have not like they have not they don't go to conferences they don't talk about Bickel and they don't put up videos the only thing they ever do is talk about their damn ETF you know so that's that's just something to bring up and something to keep in mind it's just really interesting that that they own so much coin but you so little evangelizing about Bitcoin. For for the record I did see the money the Winkovos twins at the money 2020 conference a few years ago when I was there I heard they gave an intro to Bitcoin speech I'm not sure how how up on the subject they were it's a difficult subject to introduce and of course the Winkovier welcome on this show if you'd like to come Tyler and Cameron I just remembered your names out at know where that's incredible but let's try to move on to the next issue anyone have any more on this before we go. That's incredible Tom it's amazing I can't believe it I why should I know their names I think of them as those rowing guys from the movie but let's move on exit question the Winkovie ETF will be approved yes or no and we'll start out with tone Vaze. I'm pretty certain I mean look I will be I will be the first one on this show like I don't know I will wake you and I you guys can propose some kind of a reasonable there that I will do on this show if it gets approved because I am so certain that it's not going to get approved this year. Tone is of course forgetting that this is the year that trump the cubs and the patriots and the and the cavaliers all had come back this year so let's not count this out Jeffrey Jones. Yeah sorry I'm gonna have to go with tone this more than likely will not get approved this year but again I really think it's gonna get approved before the next happen. The oh good man. The answer is no. A real divine. Wow this is really surprising because on vortex is a big big one new show on Sunday the consensus of the panel was that they probably would get get approved this is this is very very different crew here I'm I'm going to be the fence and continue with my opinion of 50 50. The answer is yes there's not enough reasons to say no and they're running out of reasons why next time they'll be 12 to 15 ETFs time for the FCC to get on board moving on to issue for Bitcoin and one coin. The bank of Uganda put out a warning this week about one coin and Bitcoin the warning treats the two is if they were the same linking the proud cryptocurrency with the MLM manufactured quasi coin. What's important here is not the linkage between the two currencies but why the linkage was made did the bank of Uganda link Bitcoin to one coin out of ignorance malice or fain ignorance that is to say does the government secretly secretly wish to profit I ask you Jeffrey Jones. Yeah this is really strange but again I think it's just more fun more trying to confuse the people because Bitcoin is already confusing enough and when you start throwing around the biggest scam in the world one coin right next to Bitcoin well then it's pretty easy to for the regular average Joe to be like oh well wow what's the difference you know so more office more obfuscation more more fun and more trying to keep the coin down but it will succeed. They do both have coin in the title deal good. Yes they both have coin in the title also you have to think that you know this is just the beginning of things there and maybe there are little unsure just going with the with the safe side and here in the screen share cheat sheet here we're going to find the important part of information from the article. And that is that you know from the perspective of the regulators it's strictly monetary and it says it's other than fake it's also unacceptable both are not so there's no need for distinction so basically they think there's no need to distinct between Bitcoin and one coin because it is a threat to them is more or less what they said when you go through the article so you know they are not going to be able to do that. They don't care about getting into the details right now. Now I just think it's just at the beginning I don't think they're trying to you know go long Bitcoin and then you know fud it or something in Nigeria. I think that genuinely you know they have you know Bitcoin Ponzi's and stuff like that going on and people lose money and they're just like okay we're just going to say oh they look further into it and they're like oh we don't really like this. Let's just give a general warning blanket warning and you know we'll go on from there. I think that you know actually it's also a sign that Bitcoin is growing there actually so when the government gives these kind of these kind of warnings it means that there must be enough activity for them to take the time to give these warnings and it's kind of free advertisement even though it says scam and all that kind of stuff people hear about it. They want to find out for themselves maybe they don't always believe the government either of course you know so you know it's kind it's a little bit of free advertisement if the government is really threatened by it they're kind of shooting themselves in the foot by giving it this extra attention. Theo shows no respect for the Nigerian scammers Jeffrey Jones unfortunately has to leave say goodbye good. All right thanks guys it's been a pleasure great show so far so I gotta get going but keep it up keep talking Bitcoin thanks guys. Wait a minute see you. Good night. Bye bye. Gabriel D. Vine your thoughts on Bitcoin and one coin. I think Theo made a lot of really good points and I think it's really a wonderful extremely bullish sign to see statements calling out Bitcoin and I think it's a wonderful sign for one coin to be included in the illustrious company of the premier digital currency of our age that's not going to last too long because they're scam. Well eventually collapse might take another year or so but you know I think it's I think it's wonderful I mean it's just great to see that Bitcoin is being noticed and I hope that we have a lot more warnings like this. Because as the importance and especially the attitudes toward government in the world plummet so quickly from one month to the next as the true colors and ineptitude of governments is laid bare worldwide. The more warnings and negative comments about Bitcoin we see from them the better for Bitcoin. It is truly an honor for one coin I hadn't thought of it that way tone vase. Alright so this is actually like I found this fairly interesting and people are not going to like my answer because from the viewpoint of the Ugandan Ugandian government they're correct. They have absolutely no reason to treat Bitcoin and one coin differently from each other because to them they're both like an illegal currency and value transfer and it's not you know legal tender for that. Yeah why wouldn't we like that tone why wouldn't we like that you're saying that. Well no because people are I don't think you I mean you guys were on the show but a lot of our listeners well maybe I think I think our listeners will probably understand by now but in general right like the Bitcoin communities. I mean for the same reason that when I come when I say a theory on what is just as bad as one coin people you know get upset over it right like I compare one coin to a theory I'm like I pair one coin to dash I mean to me they're the same thing so there's absolutely no reason why the government wouldn't think that one coin and Bitcoin are the same because they're both interrupting their currency in the same exact way. Now having said that that article is actually pretty good because the guy that's trying to run a Bitcoin exchange in Uganda is trying to fight this and he's also absolutely right when he says that well the government was to ban it for everyone so because the government officials will be able to just buy it and that's true in general right I mean you make the government most of the laws that the government makes is so that only a select few of the government makes. A select few can break those laws this is why you want the least amount of laws are possible in a society in order to keep like a rule of law and a civil society but you want to only keep the laws that are like so important that not even a government official can break them right this is a problem in all societies so I also totally agree with him when he says that the government only wants to put the slow in so. So that you know like they can buy the Bitcoin but we can't this is also kind of like gold was right when gold became illegal back in the 30s but the government can own the gold right but the people can't own the gold it's kind of similar to that so I mean I understand both points but from the viewpoint of the government yeah it makes total sense I don't know I don't know how else I can state it. Let's go back over the question I want to test everyone's cynicism did the Ugandan government do this out of ignorance they don't know about Bitcoin and one coin malice they don't like Bitcoin they don't like one coin or famed ignorance they're going to attempt to profit by buying Bitcoin while their people can just tell me like one or two words the good. I'm going to go with door number two. Malice they don't like Bitcoin Gabriel Devon yeah I agree with tone they don't they they any alternative to their to their scam coin is competition so they bad mouth it. And so we're we're in consensus we're all going with with malice they just don't like both of them and they don't want to waste time and resources separating the two I mean they're going to let other governments do it right like let the US do it like outsource what outsource it to the countries they trade with right like for example I don't know who you gone does mean trading partners are I know China has been coming into Africa a lot. Europe is a basket case these days US is coming into China sorry into Africa trying to anyway I mean outsource the decision of what Bitcoin is to the superpowers right to the US to China let them deal with it and after they decide what it is you know then do it and Pesa is different by the way I know I know it's not in Uganda but see that's a utility phone minutes are utility right they kind of can prevent you from using phone minutes because everyone needs phone minutes but when it comes to something like this that doesn't have any utility other than value transfer now if someone can provide a utility for Bitcoin that that helps the Ugandan government we might be dealing with it a little bit differently but so far no one's been able to come up with one. If Bitcoin had that utility who would be a fan of it here let's move on to the exit question all publicity is good publicity for Bitcoin even government warnings the O Goodman. I'm sorry I'm distracted by all the viewers in our chat thanks a lot for chatting with this Thomas please repeat the question again I'm too busy in chat. I think you've almost half answered it already but is all publicity good publicity for Bitcoin even government warnings yes Gabriel divine same question yes bring it on bring it on bring bring all the drama on the fights the hair pulling the you know hopefully Trump will say something bad or good or neutral about Bitcoin anything. And tone vase are we in agreement. I think so what was the question is all publicity good publicity. I'm also distracted by the chat yeah I think all publicity for Bitcoin is pretty much good publicity I really don't see it right because when Chuck Schumer goes on TV and yells about so crow that was great and the ETF news that may legitimize Bitcoin that's also great so yeah all publicity is good. We're in agreement we're at an early point where all we need to do is get people to know that there is such a thing called Bitcoin anything that helps towards that is a good thing let's move on to predictions or story of the week feel good man are you ready with a prediction or story of the week. Please come back to me at the end Gabriel divine. Yeah a little little small story of the week. Samson Mal the I believe chief technical officer for the CEO he was the CEO operations at BTC see is that correct Chinese exchange that's correct he today yesterday announced his resignation from his position there. Timed exactly to coincide with them cutting off Bitcoin with draws from the exchange I'm assuming he's feeling that the Chinese environment is too much at the mercy of the regulators and doesn't feel it's a good place for him to be putting his labor I wonder what's really going on there be curious to hear Thomas's thoughts especially on that. The only note all that is just what I saw in the public tweet from Bobby Lee from BTC see is that Samson was going to spend more time with his family in Canada so certainly it's very difficult for working in China but your families in Canada so I do know both of them personally but they haven't spoken to me about this so I wish him the best and I'm a big fan of his tweets yeah killer killer tweets I have a feeling they're going to get maybe slightly better even because he won't have any muscles at all and I'm going to have more than one. Here's hoping tone is. Yeah I actually I don't think neither one of us follows the other on Twitter and I really should I should probably reach out talk to him all right so I'm going to I'm going to stick to what I've been doing which is talking about price as my prediction again I remain bullish ever since I drew that green arrow. Though this channel has been around for ages now it's going on years and I am bullish Bitcoin I had a little bit of you know there was a little caution flag but I've been saying for weeks not much to worry about right here but once we break out above this previous high which might be even tonight overnight we're good to go here is the breaking coin liquid index which is going to update in about 30 4500. I think I'm looking for this red line I think quite get there but we will and I'm expecting this pattern to repeat we've done it twice. Here's a very close look on the hourly candles and beautiful I did not look to this in a while we are back in my channel which is perfect now we just got to get to the top of the channel and as you can see the top of that channel is already at 11. 50 which is the all time highs so I can wait to bust out of that all time high sounds great and deal goodman are you ready with a prediction or a story of the week. Yes indeed I have a story of the week and rare pipa block chain trading including pipa cash has made it again in the big time not only can you find articles the mass media covering rare pipa on mother board owned by vice but also we are international now and also covering different languages. Now you can also find an article in the French newspaper Le Monde and it is about rare pipa blockchain trading it is about the telegram group it is about the blockchain artwork that is revolutionizing the way that the blockchain is being used to also talking about the price action it's quite interesting article and they came into the telegram we're asking questions so. You can also do Google translate on it of course but you know maybe you should brush up on your French while you're at it it's not that hard to get an idea of what they're talking about and that is the story of the week. I remember you heard about the rare pipa is here first on the world crypto network thanks to the good man that's right. I don't really have a story of this week didn't plan anything I just wanted to say I was watching cheers and I saw john McLaughlin on there I was very excited to see that for those of you don't know this shows it was kind of based on the McLaughlin group a political discussion group. John McLaughlin rest in peace great man also shout out to you me and BTC they're doing live shows on Thursday night you can check that out on the you me and BTC dot T.C slash live and I wanted to thank Jeffrey Jones the vortex for being on the show you can check out his show the Bitcoin news show right here on the world crypto network everyone be sure to subscribe below I want to thank our 120 or so live viewers thanks to everyone for giving us a thumbs up. Give us a share and of course we're giving us a comment or for talking to us in the chat that really helps and it's great for the show and the network and I'm afraid we're out of time until next time. Bye bye.