Once again, the Bitcoin Group is dedicated to hanging out toolbox a really useful piece of software that used to let you put your name below your video. The Bitcoin Group, the American original. For over the last 10 seconds, the sharpest satosies, the best Bitcoin, the hardest cryptocurrency talk. We'd like to welcome our panelists, Blake Anderson, cryptographic economist. Hi, everybody. Thanks for having me on the show. We've come to kick ass and chew bubblegum. Chris DeRose from Bitcoin Uncensored. What's up party people? Pleasure to join you here today. Oh, good man, from Hasse online. Good evening, everyone. Gabriel, Devine from Future Rant. And what's that about? Tom Vays from Liberty Life Trail. Hello, everyone. Coming to you live from Hunter Mountain, getting ready to go skiing tomorrow. And I'm Thomas Hunt from the World Crypto Network, moving on to issue one. Issue one, Trump and Bitcoin. America inaugurates a new president today. This man, Donald Trump, takes office riding a wave of Republican populism based upon claims to drain the swamp. Free businesses from unnecessary regulation, revise and perhaps terminate international trade agreements. Build a wall on the Mexican border and combat what he calls radical Islamic terrorism. But let's all put all that aside and focus on Bitcoin. Will the new president be good or bad for Bitcoin? Take Anderson. Well, I may be alone in this, but I've said for quite a while that I see Bitcoin as, you know, to some extent withdrawing consent from the, you know, insane monetary policies of the United States government and, you know, all the who blood that they get into. So if you look at like, you know, this is a bearish investment relative to the dollar, then if you know, Trump makes all these free market changes and the market gets stronger, there would be less reason to, you know, really, really love and enjoy Bitcoin. And the price would naturally go down. If he really, really does make America great again and deregulates without allowing for regulatory capture to get into the door, then, you know, that unfortunately is not going to be great for a bet against the system. But I think that pragmatism, and if we look to the past, we could probably look at reasons that he maybe won't be able to change as many things as we're, you know, maybe hoping that he will be able to. So if changes are made, they probably will get bogged down and capture ask language, and it'll probably slow the economy down. So Bitcoin is probably still a pretty strong investment because Donald Trump isn't quite as classically liberal as maybe we would like for him to see. I'm definitely, you know, happy about the transition of power to be moving, you know, back from the extreme, you know, left slide that we had for so long. But, you know, being the kind of end-capished person that I am, I don't think that the S slide is far enough. And I think that Bitcoin is still a strong investment over long horizons. And I guess that's my more in-depth take than just a yes or no answer on the situation. I would invite our audience to thumbs up and share this video so that more people can watch. Chris DeRose. Yeah. So I've very different views about this than Blake does. I highly skeptical that the election really does make a big difference. You know, if you look at where most of the Bitcoin is being bought right now, it would suggest that the vast majority of it is in China, that the speculative demand there is very high. So, does Donald Trump then have authority over the US component of that? And is, if that's the case, that might very well be, you know, less than 5-10% of the price. That being said, he's made a lot of major claims about the nature of what he wants to do at his campaign, some of which were to cut off for Bitton's Flow to Mexico. Doing that would, in fact, incite a lot of Mexicans to use Bitcoin as a solution for value routing in ways that they're unable to do so in such an environment. So I think that that's probably not going to come to pass. I mean, that's almost like a declaration of war or even in many terms that I don't think that would happen. But at least at some level, he seems inspired enough to cut off financial access to people and that's generally a good thing for Bitcoin. You also decided yourself, well, how does that compare to the other candidate Hillary Clinton? And it's very hard for me to really quantify the wares in the House. I think that her campaign perhaps was going to be a little bit more permissive in the war on drugs. I mean, Donald Trump said that that was something that he was very poor in the past. I don't know if his mind has changed. And so that would be another source of inflow. If we had better regulations preventing street dealers and such from selling drugs, that would be a boom to online drug deals and drug sales. And I think that that would probably also be a way that Trump probably compared favorably. But again, I think that most of the actual purchasing right now has been done in China. So I'm actually not that concerned or skeptical or anything really not the election. It's very interesting. We shall see. But I don't think it's as interesting as the other inflows at the moment. I think at this point, Trump's brand is uncertainty and uncertainty is good for Bitcoin. Theo Goodman. Good. Trump is good for Bitcoin. Definitely. I'm going to give a clear answer. It's good. It doesn't matter at all what real power or control is. It's all about perception. And the perception is Trump runs the world because the US is the free world. And everyone in a lot of most of the people in the world are freaking out. And they don't know what to do because Trump and what are we going to do? Oh no, it's the end of the world. What's going to happen? And I don't know what's going on. So just because of that alone and of course, like what Chris brought up about the wall or the economic wall or whatever kind of restrictions, just the perception that's even possible. It's definitely good for the price. And it's also good for people learning about it and figuring out different ways to maybe use Bitcoin. So I think that definitely plays into it. Who knows what's going to happen, but I think that it's not negative. Also of course, we've heard a lot of the chatter about cabinet people that maybe are associated with Bitcoin and so on. So it looks like he's keeping an open mind to cryptocurrencies or Bitcoin and so on. So let's hope that he doesn't go down the other path. That is the left hand path of blockchain. Let's hope that he doesn't do that and he goes to the correct way to Bitcoin. And of course, Trump is great for rare pipa, pipa cash. And you need to get some right now. Thanks a lot, TuxXchange for adding it and get on that stuff. Completely confusing with the pipa cash. I would say that go ahead Gabriel D. Vaughn. Thanks Thomas. Yeah, I kind of agree, I would say with most of what you guys are saying, especially you Thomas, uncertainty is good for Bitcoin and Trump's brand definitely incorporates and represents uncertainty at this time. Nobody has any idea really what he's going to do. And politicians don't have a history of living up to their word or really have anything to do with their rhetoric on the campaign trail. So we'll have to see. But I'm looking at the cabinet choices. We see everything from Goldman Sachs total insiders like Manuchin all the way to advisors, maybe not official cabinet, but guys like Peter Teal coming out big in support of Trump. There's a lot of rumblings in the conspiracy world as the rep from that area on the show. I think it's my responsibility to pass on what the rumor mill says, which is Teal's volunteer cyber surveillance Silicon Valley company is going head to head with the CIA apparatus in order to defend Trump from their machinations. So apparently some sort of deep state battle going on there. So that that would make some sense, I think, interestingly. On the protectionism trade blocks side, I think that will have an effect on Bitcoin in general. I think we're going to see a lot more protectionism around the world from governments as populism is on the rise. And what that means is that we're going to have governments attempting to stop trade or slow down trade or control it more. So that means that more trade will go into the black market. We're going to I think we're going to see a lot more what we consider to be legitimate goods and services being traded across borders attempting to evade coast guards, et cetera, and to evade the controls on financial flows. So that's superb for Bitcoin, of course, if enough industries start to adopt cryptocurrency as a means of transmitting their funds back and forth, you're going to see some closed loops adding a lot of wealth to the Bitcoin ecosystem which translates into an increased exchange rate. On the financial collapse side that once again the rumblings from the woo woo crazy world are that the plunge protection team, et cetera, all the manipulation of the markets coming out of the treasury and supplied by the Fed with the Fiat currency in order to basically manipulate market prices. Apparently they say that Trump wants to stop that. If he does we're going to see massive market dislocations, huge collapses, et cetera, and in an environment of that type of collapse in the United States, I think we might see a lot of population flow south of the border and in which case Mexico would be very incentivized to build the wall at their expense. So that is what the rumor mail is saying about the wall. I wouldn't be surprised if nothing at all comes from it, but in any case financial collapse and removal of market manipulation is of course very beneficial to Bitcoin too. And Mexico pays for the wall after all. It would be interesting to see a comparison of palatars open source intelligence model with the CIA's closed source model and to agree with Theo, they haven't said anything negative about Bitcoin yet, but Russia has banned and attempted to ban Bitcoin several times. So we're not sure. Tom, are you sure it's palatars open source? Really? I'm not sure. I think it's been described as by using public sources on the internet. It's like scanning web pages. So that would be open source that it's reading whereas the CIA is more a series of agents bringing in reports or a close. I would have to look into it more. Tom, they are. Are you ready? I'm going to let Chris jump in. I'm going to let Chris jump in. As Gabriel was saying, we're not talking about the cabinet advisors enough here. I hope that Tom could comment on that. The one major one is Bellagy himself, which in a Hillary administration would not be running the FDA by this time next year. So it could be said at some level and this could be good or bad, but the Trump administration was the reason for the current state of 21, which is basically a rudderless ship without eight without a product. Tom, do you want to talk about that and everything else? Just to get you to come up in the audience. Bellagy, the CEO of 21, the Bitcoin company that made a small mining and networking device is now has he been appointed FDA commissioner or he's going to be a commissioner? Was he actually going? Was he going to be appointed commissioner? But he was just going to be an employee there. No, I can't believe. As far as I know, he's on the short list for commissioner. I don't think it's been decided yet, but it's looking. And the main thing we know is that he deleted his entire Twitter history. So we do believe that he's going into government. Colleges qualifications are that he has a total biotech background and a degree of like a PhD in biophysics or something. He's got a very impressive biotech startup. I don't have the exact details, but much more impressive than 21 indeed. But yeah, I think that's what's going on. It's FDA commissioner tone. So. Okay, interesting. So if Bellagy does get in there, I mean, obviously we all know about the success of 21, but Bellagy does seem to generally understand what Bitcoin is. So the good news is that if Bellagy gets in there, he can at least explain to that. Is it the treasury secretary or another appointment of the guy that actually had that quote in the article talking about how good blockchain technology is? So maybe Bellagy can set that guy straight of what blockchain technology actually is. So at this point, I actually would like to see Bellagy in that position because at least he can separate blockchain from Bitcoin. So that would be great. Yeah, yeah, I wasn't really going to talk about the appointments either. It's just a lot of speculation. So as far as Trump, I'm going to try and mention something that hasn't been said. Oh, by the way, it's great to see Chris on here. I was done in Miami for seven days. I started to take over his show and sneak on there. So it's great to have Chris on here to return the favor. But. So I'm going to say something that hasn't been said, which is the tax issue. So Trump, so everyone talked about the positives that Trump can bring to Bitcoin. So here's the big negative. Hillary would have been great for Bitcoin because as a socialist or Bernie, they would have, you know, ramped up the taxes and all in that whole area. Trump is actually anti taxes. I don't know if he can pull it off, but he sure is how it's going to try. So if Trump lowers taxes and starts to bring that money home like he claims he will, that would actually be kind of bad for Bitcoin. To me, Bitcoin was going to serve a huge role in the tax evasion area like it has in the drug markets and in some of the other markets. So I think Trump can cut that off at its knees by dropping taxes to the point where it doesn't wear the risk of routing your value through Bitcoin to avoid taxes. It just isn't worth it. So that's kind of my view on taxes and Hillary was going to ramp that one up. I don't like his stance on Snowden and sharing of information. His tweets are kind of confusing. At first people tweeted at me saying that, oh, Trump is a Snowden supporter. He wants to bring him home with an apology. And then people sent me the entire conversation. It turns out that Russia would be sending Snowden home with an apology from Russia for why they were keeping him. So Trump definitely isn't open to something like WikiLeaks in existence. And Bitcoin will continue to serve its purpose in contribution and moving things around in order to help information flow, like paying for information flowing through the system. I'm not sure about his stand on drugs. I believe he's a little more anti-drugs than Hillary is, but also its perception. Like Hillary as a Democrat, they're trying to get the black vote, they're trying to get the minority vote. Obviously, the minorities are more into drugs than the more middle class higher up people, even though Chris DeRose will disagree with that. But that's the perception. Again, it's not the reality. It's the perception. I'm a traitor. It's the rumor. It's not the news. The perception is that if you're middle class and upper, you don't do drugs, even though that might not be true, but that's the perception. And if you're poor, you're a drug user. So I think that's one of the reasons why the Democrats are actually openly to the public, a little more pro drugs, whether Republicans are openly anti-drugs, but behind closed doors, it could be the complete opposite. So I don't know. So even though Trump says he's open to the drug, he may not be behind closed, sorry, it's the other way around. Even though Trump says he's anti-drugs publicly, privately, he doesn't even care about the drug angle. So that's just another thing to consider. I don't know which way that would go. I think Chris wants to comment on something I've said. Yeah. Just to clarify, I think that generally drug dealers are minorities and drug users are white. Is usually how the statistics will let me to believe. But that's the decide. Well, the only way I would add here too is that I think that there's some allegations that Donald Trump is in full a climate denier. I don't know how true that is. But what I will say is that if he has the inclination to lower energy prices by pushing those externality costs onto our environment, it may be that he ends up subsidizing the mining networks here in the United States more and allows us to compete with the Chinese miners with access to cheaper energy prices and with an increase in externality costs being borne by American citizens. If that's what he's advocating. He's going to have to fire up a lot of coal powered plants to get us cheap enough energy to compete with China's subsidy. But I see what you're saying. Yeah. Just a thought. I agree with that. Also, but Chris, I want to just put something back to you a little bit where you said the most of the drug dealers are minorities, but most of the drug users are middle to upper class. But is that maybe the reality? But do you see that as the perception as portrayed upon by the mainstream media? I'm very out of tune with how to be to portray these things. I would defer to you. If you said it was, I wouldn't even argue. If you watch the show intervention, then I think it's mostly white people. I mean, historically, it's worth mentioning that the penalties for crack cocaine were much more harsh than the penalties for cocaine that was used at the higher levels of Wall Street versus the ghettos. We can also say that mainly we're talking about marijuana legalization here, which I don't think the Trump administration is going to stand in the way of. It could be a $5 billion a year industry next year. It could be $50 billion in five years. I think the Trump administration, if anything, is going to want to negotiate, get a cut of that, get some taxes, and get in on that deal. Let's move on. Yeah, one last thing. Sorry, one last thing. All of this Bitcoin talk and Trump, I think it's way pretty much true. And I think it's like meaningless compared to Trump's three biggest appointments. Will he keep Janet Yellen as the head of the Federal Reserve or replace her? Who will he put as the ninth and last Chief Justice on the Supreme Court? And who is he going to put as the head of the, what do you call it, the Justice Department? I think those three appointments are by far the most important things he will do. Anything related to Bitcoin is like so far down from those three. And I think those are the three that people should be focusing on even in the Bitcoin space. I was going to do the car-active, but the Nina, the Pinta, and the Santa Maria. But let's move on to the exit question. The price of Bitcoin next week, one week into the Trump administration will be up or down. Blake Anderson. I'm just going to copy the doubt chart for his inauguration versus Obama's. The direct overlap was that the doubt was higher than it was for him. So will Bitcoin be up or down? Is it a bearish or a bull's investment? God, that logic should say down. But I think it's going to be up. It's got some strong underpinnings right now. I think it'll be up. Chris DeRose. I believe price discursor is a random walk and I don't have that information. Don't tell us the otherwise. So I'm going to defer to whatever he tells us. The O Goodman. I'm going to go with first of all, you have to open your ears and listen to the Trump Pence and they tell me 777. Gabriel, divine. Wow, big drop from Theo. I think actually we are going to see an upsurge at the end of the month, maybe not by the 27th. I'm just going to say of slightly up, 910 just randomly. But I do agree with Chris that it's very random at the weak level. I just want to chime in real quick. If somebody's watching this, can they put the time into finding out who is right the most often on the show on these predictions or who has the worst, the best track record? That'd be a good product for somebody. It's Tom. We don't have to, it's Tom. We don't have to ask anybody. It's Tom. It's available. They can do it on Wikipedia, but I don't suggest it. It's Tom both. It's Tom both. It's Tom both the best and the worst. We haven't kept track. That's the problem. We purposely don't keep track, but I imagine that I'm one of the worst. Mine's really bad. My history is very bad. I would bet you all do all the same. That would be my guess. Mr. Tony's got the charts. Let's hear it. All right. I'm on screen share right now real quick. I had my cup and handle pattern and I put this green arrow during the presentation in Miami. Chris watched that presentation live. I even gave it a timeline of within 72 hours to hit 915. I was a little bit off. It hit 915 a one day later. So it wasn't 72 hours. It was 72 hours plus 24 hours. It also created another bullish pattern, which is supposed to take us up to 950. And I will just jump on to this chart right here where we came close to hitting the top of the channel, came down to the bottom of the channel. And now I am looking for prices to go up following this arrow. So I am bullish from here on out. And I might be saying higher for the next several months we're doing this question. So higher. That's good because I was going to say up anyway. Moving on to issue two issue two, Barry Silver and Ethereum classic. Ethereum which famously split into two currencies with its developers creating a new chain to restore the $50 million stolen by the Dow hacker while others stuck with the original chain and created Ethereum classic. After a rocky start, the currency now has this word of fame digital currency group investor Barry Silver who is invested in several eith classic companies. And now it's said to be funded in eith classic ETC. The price of the price of ETC has reacted positively to this news. But will you? Christopher Rose. What is the future of Ethereum and Ethereum classic? Sorry Thomas, did you mean ETC ETF because Ethereum classic ETF? Because that didn't make sense. Yeah, Ethereum classic ETF. Okay, because you said Ethereum classic ETC that's why it was confusing. It's an ETC ETF. Right. There you go. Okay, say that. ETC fund him. Yeah. Yeah. And now Chris. The question everyone's waiting for. Yeah, so I am the quintessential BTC maximalist that post was written in response to me. It's how coined the term and I have not changed my views at all. I don't see any utility whatsoever for this project. I think Ethereum is just an ornate Ponzi now what I will say is. Let's say I'm wrong. I would like to see ETC do better. They have not broken the community promise. Let's just see if someone finds any use for this thing. The NASDank frankly is a project that is slightly interesting of the entire space. It's only that slightly interesting. And I don't see how you could possibly host NASDank on the Ethereum foundation. There are many cases where your pepies may or may not need to clear or there will be censored pepies, etc. And I don't think they could honor the promise that they've made to the community given the doubt for if that they've engaged upon. So I would like to see the ETC price perhaps succeed at the expense of ETC price. What I will say, what I think is going on with Barry Silver. I don't know him very well personally. We've talked off and on. I think that he likes to test the market with his pronouncements. I think he likes to see what degree of influence he has. And I also think that he wants other investors to see him at least as having some degree of exposure to the ETH markets so that he himself has not labeled a Bitcoin maximalist for political reasons. What I would also say is I've known Math Tan, I believe, over there at ETH ETH scan for quite a while. He did the counterparty blockchain scanner. And I haven't heard this from him. But Sources close to him have told me that he hasn't invested very much money in all on the project. So I think this is mostly a move to signal and not much else. As far as a actual index fund is concerned, I've so scattered all these things are going to come out anytime soon. It's just the vapor where I would like to see them come out, but it's taken a while. That's all. The only thing we really know is this made the price go up. Theo Goodman. What was the exact question again? What is the future of Ethereum and Ethereum classic? I think the future of Ethereum looks to be on private blockchains. That's the thing that keeps popping up more and more. So it's not Ethereum, the public blockchain, but what keeps on being championed and talked about is Ethereum on private blockchains, Ethereum for companies, but they call it cool names like Ethereum enterprise, Star Trek or something. It's just come up with cool names for private blockchains, basically rebrand them, Ethereum something. If CoinSense invested all this money, they got to make something work. And then public blockchain didn't really work out great in 2016 considering everything that happened. I mean, think of all the resets we had in the last half of 2016, all kinds of stuff going on. So I think that's the direction of Ethereum, Vitalik Ethereum. And Ethereum classic is more like an altcoin. They're still trying to figure out if there is a real use for it or besides speculation and all that, what's going on with it? Can we do this? That's where that's going more the altcoin route and Ethereum Vitalik is going more of the, we have this public blockchain that theoretically you could interface with. Why you would need to do that is unclear or how big the blockchain is going to be and all that stuff is really unclear, but that's going the private way. The future of this year's buzzword is last year's buzzword combined with this year's buzzword. Gabriel, Devon. You know, I was very, very entertained when somebody on Twitter shared with me the Reddit thread that was posted on the, on the Ethereum subreddit about this investment trust project announcement and all of the but hurt. And then I got to see the Ethereum offer over there just in an outcry over this and how it's so bad. And it's like, really guys, I mean, why is this thing a problem? In any case, I think I'm with Chris on Ethereum in general. I mean, I, you know, with new technologies, you never really know. And I maintained sort of a neutral stance on Ethereum from the beginning. I was skeptical, but, you know, I don't have the expertise to go and read the white paper and point out all the weaknesses and everything. But as more and more rhetoric has come out of the ether, Ethereum foundation and Switzerland over time. And as I've seen Vitalik, buterin's statements over time, it is pretty fucking clear that this thing is a very sophisticated scam. And steam, it's confusing bullshit, convoluted crap, can't hold a candle to how many people were drawn in by the dream of a world computer. It's a wonderful dream, but this system is like ridiculous. And the weaknesses of having a fully, you know, touring complete scripting language inside of a blockchain. It definitely seems insurmountable. I once again agree with Chris that you can never say from 100% certainty, but even if ether, you know, even because ether, Ethereum classic is not doing the difficulty bomb and moving to proof of stake, that's not going to save it from these inherent weaknesses. So it's interesting to see somebody throw their money behind it. I'm not surprised. We'll see if he can actually get any money. And I think Silbert is mostly a troll. So we'll see what kind of projects happen in the future. I think most of this stuff is basically destined for the dust heap of history. So a good point gave the gas heads preferred to roll their own dows, tone veys. All right. Well, let me start with, I do not consider Barry Silbert a troll, however. We've covered all of these topics on previous versions, on previous shows here on the Bitcoin group. So I would surely encourage those that haven't seen the other one. If you go to my blog, you can just do a search in my blog for Ethereum classic, do a search for ETC, do a search for Barry Silbert. And you will watch these shows. So let me start off with the week that Ethereum was working. I was very adamant that I expected the Ethereum classic to one day match Ethereum in both price and hashing power. Now it's possible that Ethereum is going to go up a mistake so the hashing power won't matter. But I've always expected Ethereum classic to even out. So that was my prediction that they will be at the same price. Now as for Barry Silbert. Again, if you search for Barry Silbert on my blog for these shows, I was incredibly critical of Barry Silbert. That was the first time I've ever been critical of Barry Silbert. I think you remember this time. I said how responsible it was and how borderline, I don't understand how he's not breaking like laws and possible real laws of him coming out about the Ethereum classic back when it was like 10, 20 cents and talking about how he just bought a bunch of it and how he is supporting it. And I said he's causing this rampant pump up and nobody knows if he was just selling it at like $1 because it was that pump. The market is so shallow, it's so small, his voice and I honestly felt it was very, very responsible for him to do that. And ever since then he just continued to double down on that. So I am still very critical of Barry Silbert for doing this. And he should know better because there's no regulation in the space. So in a way, he's not doing anything illicit but for me, it just feels wrong for someone in his position to do that and take advantage like that for personal gain. So that bothered me from the first moment I saw him do it with Ethereum classic at like 10 or 20 cents, whatever price it was during the episode when we covered the story initially. Now let's talk about the ETF real quick. Again, this is something I've been saying for a long time and Chris DeRose also mentioned it for a while. Getting a Bitcoin ETF out there has the slippery slope of now the SEC becomes the authority on which old coin is a scam and which old coin isn't a scam because the moment you allow a Bitcoin ETF, you now have to make evaluations on all of these other coins. And there in no position to do that. Now I think Ethereum is nonsense. I think I like Ethereum classic that it caused all these problems in Ethereum but I have, I don't think Ethereum classic is going to get you anywhere either. It's literally just for the price. So filing for the ETF, I mean there is money to be made there from people but I think it's grossly responsible. This is also why it's grossly irresponsible to have a Bitcoin ETF. I guess if I'm going to remain being critical of very stupid, again I keep saying this. I just don't have the time to dig into his current product of the savings and Bitcoin trust. But from what I understand and after speaking with some of the people invested in it, initial investors have to be high net worth individuals that are going in at $25,000 increments. That money is locked up for at least a year and after that they can sell it. I was on the impression that they can sell it and take the cash at which point Barry Silbert puts the Bitcoin back into the Bitcoin economy by selling it or the user can just request the Bitcoin from Barry Silbert and Barry Silbert just transfers that person the Bitcoin. But apparently that is not how it's done. One sure one year period is up, you then sell those shares on the open market to anyone through each trade. So that means Barry Silbert has completely contracted the supply of Bitcoin and this is why the price of the GBTC shares on the open market is trading at like a 60, 70% price of Bitcoin. As far as I know there is absolutely no mechanism to put the Bitcoin sitting at Zappo back into the Bitcoin economy circulation. And I think this is incredibly dangerous. It's locking up this Bitcoin as a giant honey pot not only from internal problems like my own dogs, external problems like Bitfinex and regulatory problems or like for example China coming in it's a Chinese company and they say Bitcoin is ours now if you are for an investor. So anyway I'm just not happy with some of those moves in this financial space. It's like a Pandora's box Blake Anderson. Well I can see the value of having a trading fund that's going to encourage responsible investment horizons and things which can otherwise be way too volatile for your average investor to get in. But if it's large scale investors and there's people that are going after signals from people in the space that are like let's say that you're a venture capitalist and you want to go out and have an exciting time with your money and you want to go invest in companies you invest in a whole lot of a range of companies and then a few of them work out. That's generally about the odds of being a venture capitalist that's going to have any level of success most of them have none. So I mean like the survival being the exception and not the rules especially true in business. So I mean when Barry goes out and spreads all this money around I don't think that's an insane thing to do. It's what most people are doing. It's very rare to see you know a venture capitalist who's really really really smart of the field that he's in and it's just crushing it all the time. That would actually almost transcend the definition of venture capitalist to some extent and they're not going to have a wide variety of things to invest in. So when I see Barry investing in things like Ethereum or Ethereum Classic and stuff like that I mean it's not the best signal but when tone is talking about you know there's going to be risks involved if there's going to be an ETF. I mean that's true that there's going to be risks involved. I mean the benefit would be you know more responsible horizons can be you know grouped into and then taken out of so that people generally get a more favorable view of things but any kind of an ether ETF I mean I don't think that the long term viability of that medium of exchange is anything that anybody should be talking about like the fact that Ethereum tokens with an operational connotation are sold on Coinbase is infuriating to me. That's absolutely ridiculous why they did that. I have no idea in my level of respect for that company went down just order just more than anything else could have. So I think that's very very early on when I was told about Ethereum kind of a screen share here. Let's see. Oh there's a picture of me and there's a picture of Vitalik and I'm sitting next to him and like I'm a pretty smart guy. I'm always like yeah let's you know let's get into this with you know an open mind stuff and there's a picture and you can probably find it on my Twitter feed of Vitalik you know with talking with his hands and explaining to me and I'm just like. I have no smile in my face I'm kind of looking down and looking up with my eyes like this is you know from what I know about project management and computer science this is scope below and an infinite attack vector surface that you're going to sell to people and in my mind all I could hear was the doge community saying to the moon and I that's still my opinion of all of this software. I mean like a risk industries forks down the nightmare of a project so you can actually start to try to get a handle on the attack vector and the scope below and maybe try to pare it down use it for something as far as I know there's not a whole bunch of people with you know robust businesses operating on the ares industries a fork of the chain or their software package so I just don't think that articles like this are really legitimately trying to build out the Ethereum infrastructure long term I think that they're trying to pump the price up and keep the price alive because so many people that were in a position to invest in Bitcoin type stuff spread their money over into either just because they thought it was good to diversify and now we have this huge amount of people with you know relatively large amount of influence that are you know constantly trying to come up with new stuff to say about the emperors close and I personally find it relatively disgusting. Oh okay can you jump right in here just one quick thing so on top of thing we just said and Blake partially mentioned so on top of everything Barry has like so much influence because he owns a media company and an event hosting company right so he can really like and then easily pump them up through media reach it's it's yeah but I guess this is what us anarchists want right no rules and regulations so this is what we're getting right it's like what person can I monopolize that everything it is very much an unregulated market real quick we want to work with coin desk I do right for them I I very has been pretty hands off of coin desk this far and mostly most is because he has from what I've heard Pete Rizzo is fighting very hard to keep it that way and I don't think he's ever received much in the way of pressure that attempt but Ryan Selkis he is a kind of loose cannon in that enterprise and he is particularly sympathetic towards a lot of these scams so we'll see if that actually ends up being like a very silver to show enterprise through his leadership but that remains we see the chat keeps calling him very shiver I think it's funny that well during the last price rise of Bitcoin Ryan and there were some other people on Twitter but I do remember specifically said I think the price was you know getting around a thousand I'm buying some Ethereum here and this other shit going to and this other one I think it's a good buy here no investment advice you know one of those kind of tweet disclaimer signaling things of course it's not investment advice everyone so but I'm just saying I bought some maybe it's a good price but no investment advice okay guys just you know no no advice I agree with you they might try to keep it completely separate but fluffy pony of Manaro had clearly demonstrated how much Manaro was covered by coin desk versus all of these other coins especially Ethereum and some of the other ones and if Barry really wants to be hands off he should be hands off he shouldn't be stating his security investments in the old coin space while also talking about which companies is funding and at the same time he does own a media publication so it might doesn't even have to be direct if some of the writers for coin desk knows that Barry favors one coin over the other that's the coin they're going to try and use in their articles it's not a conspiracy it's just you know they might not even realize they have this bias but they do because that's the coin they hear from the people above them in the same organization and to defense coin desk has put a disclaimer on all of their articles whenever the digital currency group is also invested in the company that they're covering go ahead Chris no I was going to say that I was relatively close to all of those decisions if you're not if not directly certainly by way of leakers and Barry really was fairly out it's Ryan himself who's like to do Bruce Spentin he kind of believes whichever way the wind blows that's what his conviction is that day so when you know he effectively believes in UFOs at this point so in like the consensus conference came and went he was completely sympathetic towards all the Ethereum pumpers and there's really not a lot of leadership there I wouldn't attribute that to for what I've seen at least two part of a very silver sort of agenda that being said there was a reason that he bought that company but but then again they're like the only profitable company I think it is whole portfolio so like it could also just be a very easy numbers thing for them too Chris I've seen a UFO but I've never seen a useful application built on Ethereum I'm not going to argue that I didn't see the UFO but I believe you saw it UFO before I saw useful Ethereum app look it's a thousand scammers you guys may or may not believe that but I remember prior to Ethereum he was raising money for a quantum computer that whole project was absurd and he really just went right from that project into Ethereum when he saw that that's what people wanted to put their money into we've been pretty pretty well in Ethereum around these parts so most people on the show may not have you know a full opinion the Vitalik is a scammer but pretty much there there's a general consensus that Vitalik is not a superstar rock star nor as smart as other people claimed that he is so that I think that's the more general consensus here and to go back to what Blake was saying infinite attack vectors is quite a lot of attack vectors and while we don't know the long-term results of silver its investment we do know that in the short term he made out like a bandit let's move on to the exit question who will win Ethereum Ethereum classic or nobody Christa Rose nobody I just gonna go to the potato Leo Goodman I'm listening to the Trump Pence and I hear Ethereum classic winning Gabriel D. Vaan Bitcoin tone veys now it's probably gonna be no but I don't think they're going to be competing Vitalik is trying to go proof of stake for two reasons in my opinion before Ethereum classic I said well with Vitalik can't go proof of stake uh a damn classic and my view that Vitalik has now become the test me uh test net developer for Ethereum classic I don't want to do that so he's going to want to fork into uh into proof of stake and then it won't matter then there'll be completely different things so not I don't think they'll be competing in the same way Blake Anderson so I was distracted by tones connection quality what was the connection again or was the connection again what was the question? Ethereum Ethereum classic or nobody who will win and it's right I think that they bought a lot of time now they can like argue between the two forks in which one's more legitimate instead of people talking about how the entire thing is just absolutely computer science nonsense that's not tenable from the first information theory that was put out there so uh I think they bought themselves a lot of time only they can you know change what the question is instead of the tentability of the whole system but eventually they're both going to lose because without them being forced down to make that attack vector smaller and actually you know get some kind of control over the technology I mean it can't be used it's a it's a security risk to use it so I mean that's not very good for for their long-term value problem. Chris stole my thunder but the answer is still nobody moving on to issue three issue three mad bitcoins exclusive interview with map with Mark Carpellis enterprising bitcoin journalist mad bitcoins dominates the world of bitcoin news launching an exclusive interview with Mark Carpellis thanks to the help of tone veys and crystal rose of bitcoin uncensored Carpellis expressed a belief that the hack was caused by their hosting provider that he will fight vigorously in the trial and that he feels bad for the loss of user's bitcoin but falls back on blaming the hackers he also denied that the trade bots had an effect although quickly changed his answer from they to these Carpellis indicated that although his next venture will not be in the cryptocurrency industry he does wish to make himself available to attempt to explain the hacking situation and perhaps we'll do a proper interview on the mad bitcoins program soon feel goodman your thoughts on Carpellis answer and this shocking breaking story broken by our very own mad bitcoins I want to make sure that everyone goes over to the mad bitcoins youtube channel hit subscribe give him thumbs up and share this also go over to his twitter and make sure that you follow him for the latest in breaking news such as this latest tidbit of Mark Carpellis he has been I've heard that he has been hanging out on telegram and you know he's he's accessible he'll talk to you he'll share some apple pie recipes talk about cats you know just kind of normal hanging out things and he seems actually he seems pretty reasonable you know he's not you know being ultra defensive or anything like that he's just like yeah it's this this situation this is the status of the case here we go if you guys want to get up with me then just contact me so actually that's that's pretty cool you know let's see see how things develop you can have whatever theory that you want but he's not he hasn't really disappeared or is in hiding so he's just kind of around and I think hey that's that's good and next time I want to bake an apple pie I'm gonna hit him up and I agree the old full credit to Christopher Rose and the telegraph group where Mark Carpellis turned out to be hanging out we got the chance to ask him a few questions and publish the results Gabriel Devon yeah I was really shocked to see mad bitcoins mad bitcoins coverage of Mark Carpellis and to see what he had said I didn't actually even you know I didn't follow the details of the gocks case you know in that much regard but to see that they even had a hosting provider is actually the height of incompetence it's totally ridiculous any high security company like that should never have outsourced their hosting that that's a horrible idea oh my god I mean it's bad enough that they coded up the middle tier in php which is a known buggy language with tons of security holes and possibilities for leaks you know they were using libraries that you know are terrible you know with their updates and everything but just to I didn't actually even realize that they had outsourced their hosting if you have a high security platform you have to manage the host yourself you have to manage the servers yourself I mean it's you know for example I'm working with a client right now that has a very sensitive platform with all on drop box right I'm working with a client right now that has a project that's extremely forward looking and sort of technologically edgy so to speak and they would never consider outsourcing any of this stuff because their intellectual property is too valuable they need to keep it under lock and key and to run a Bitcoin exchange on somebody else's server is the height of incompetence and stupidity and unlike Theo I don't think being available and not being reactive is any excuse for losing a bunch of people's money due to straight up incompetence that's ridiculous I didn't say it's an excuse I just glad to see him around that's all and our project is perfectly safe we've stored it in the cloud tone phase yeah I'm so glad that Marka Paul says around that we might get to hear some of the stories I've always believed that it was war and competence and not a blatant hack by him and I mean this is this is what happens in this industry so even when I talked about exchanges on my panels and I moderated panels of exchanges I've always kind of gave credit to bound gocks you know they took the initiative they were the first exchange if it wasn't for bound gocks we would have never had an initial price they kind of kicked it all off so it ended the way it ended it ended probably just on time it was big enough to put a big scare but not big enough to you know completely destroy the ecosystem so I mean the the industry worked itself out we got out of it our current exchanges are a little bit our current exchanges are a little bit better even though there's still being hacked but they're being hacked for smaller sums of money it will be great to see Marka Paul's here I've also reached out to him we spoke in a private message I'll try and get him for one of my shows but I will leave all of the history and his personal situation or to this show and Thomas and I'd like to talk about he does have some opportunities in the space and I would like to hit on that it'd be interesting to hear what he has to say Blake Anderson well I mean it's sad that he was a mover and a shaker early on I think that the scaling failures that are so obvious to us in retrospect or that are obvious to people that have worked in the space I was very very hard on him at first but I worked as an information technology math based security project manager for a bank so from the Dunning Kruger effect like I falsely concluded other people know all the stuff that I know so I don't know I was pretty hard on him for a long time in the early days and at this point I just got to say you know I guess I wouldn't have done the same thing but I wasn't an early mover and a shaker and didn't do all the work that he put in so I probably don't have too much of a right to stand up and continue to shout at him after all this time so I'll just link to that it does look like he may have been in over his head and if the hosting provider was the problem it might even be outside his control Chris DeRose so I'm a big part of this story and I actually have a lot more firsthand access to everything that's going on I think both on your end and down on his end and so on and so forth so I think that my opinion could probably be of some use to all of you so first and foremost I'm actually meeting with him in about 10 days or so now for me I'm going to be doing something with him I haven't decided what you know I want to feel amount and see where he's at there's a hard there's a hard story to tell there it's a good story but I think a lot of people want to like nail this guy in a cross so they want to like drag him through the mud and I don't see it that way I don't think that's an interesting story because all you're going to do is what berate the guy or stuff that he can't change which I know I break people but I break people for things that they can change he can't change anything and I think that you don't you lose a lot of the lessons learned when you do that on a guy like him the scam is over it's been completed and I want to hear what came to be how he felt where things went south because I think Tom might have said this before I don't think he knew really the point at which he went south on this deal he might have there remains to be seen but I think he just woke up one day and was running upon Z and and I've talked to a number of guys on my show about this trend in shavers was one of them and in fact one of the big mysteries I have is to the degree that the trend in shavers scam was connected to about Cox there's a lot of allegations there but I think that he was trying to do his best to change the world make some money and then the whole thing went south and I was there I was involved in all the hearings I think I lost like five blocks actually like I'm like a few Satoshi's on there by the time that thing went south but you got to remember the time at the time this was the magic the gathering online exchange and the people that were investing their money were all there to get rich quick they thought they held zero risk on that transaction I know that and you should all know that if you hold your money in a bank called magic the gathering online exchange run by a man in his cat young adults that you don't get any guarantees for like the security of your money particularly in a science and a field it was so new and so risky so I don't know that he I actually have a lot of compassion for it my view on scammers is extremely nuanced and I don't think everybody really gets it but a lot of listeners to be you do and and at this point the damage has been done the time has been served or at least it is on its way to being served and more so than anything else I want to get the story of how things came to be and what lessons can be learned for the future for the next guy because I think that the big underlying story for the vast majority of these things are that these people generally don't know they're running scams I think they generally are trying their best yeah so here's the thing right where I mean I understand where the potential scam was for trava for for shavers right because he was borrowing other people's bitcoins he was lending him out under higher risk sooner or later that was going to blow up where was the scam and my own gots because if it was properly run there should not have I mean he wasn't offering anyone returns he was just an exchange so where was the scam it not hacked for cold storage like that's the thing I don't see him as a scammer now perhaps after things went south he didn't really fast up and try to fix it but I don't see that he was a scammer that did know he was scamming he just realized one day holy shit my big coin is gone I think that most people that think that Marka Palace is a scam I'm very sympathetic to your argument but I think the fact remains that he was entrusted with money and that money disappeared and rather than tell him at the time it happened he kind of shrunk it along and I think at that point is where like he probably incurred the most liability I believe that he probably had the best of intentions there I believe that he probably thought there was a chance the money was coming back or that he could make the money back and as the hole got deeper deeper he just got desperate and stopped he didn't know where to turn who do you call that kind of thing right right right no but by my only argument with your statement is in the case of Trayvon Shavers offering people you know what 12% a week or something like that some kind of crazy return you could have you know had him on your show saying you're gonna blow up you're running a scam but with Marka Palace there's no way you could have done that at the time right so I don't see him as a scammer that didn't know he was scamming at any point is just that what had happened then perhaps he became a knowing scammer but I don't think at any point was he a scammer not knowing he's running a scam I don't think that maybe there was like a three-day window of that but that's about it yeah many many scams many scams come from a business that was you know by the books something bad happens they think they could make it up and then have their income cover it up and that the answer justify the means they get deeper and deeper and then it turns into a scam but actually the chat is talking about transaction availability and that is a good topic to bring up right now transaction availability is possible because there's information data that goes into the chain that's not secured in the chain it's valuables so they can change it after the fact it's a problem with Bitcoin that will be solved by actually separating out signatures activating segwood it's one of the reasons that a big blocking is categorically inferior to implementation of separating out signatures to make the core software Bitcoin actually work better I've been a big advocate of this for a very long time I don't come out into public and say it a whole lot this is going to sound arrogant but being at the certain end of the done and trigger effect you assume that other people know this stuff so you don't go out constantly screaming that you're right unable to see your own inadequacies so I think the transaction availability and any kind of impact that it had with the Mt. Gox case I mean it should be fixed eventually and however long that takes it's good I don't think we should action bias you know fork the chain early but moving towards a technologically tenable solution for Bitcoin is of material importance instead of being like let's blow up the blockchain let's get big blocks now let's eventually have the chain be big enough that it's going to have you know much less nodes around the world and then put us to a systemic risk as far as Bitcoin goes so transaction availability the Mt. Gox case getting that fixed will be one of the main chapters in that story closing up because that can't happen again but it also sounds like there was other attack vectors that were penetrated possibly even as deep as hosting or ISP and things like that so again it's not you know something that we should just say what's just Bitcoin's fault was just you know marks fault but there was a a concert of offense that happened early on when people didn't have all this information and that's a very very sad tale for those that lost their money in for mark them so and so I would agree with tone that there wasn't an outside sign of the Ponzi I would say the weak PHP interface the bad name as Chris mentioned there was always kind of a questionable cloud over this exchange you couldn't quite put your finger on it we didn't warn people overtly but we did always kind of make fun of it and that should have been a sign go ahead tone to gemwell was I give them Mike yeah so first off on the malleability there was definitely malleability bug yeah because there's definitely a malleability bug that they had that lost them some money relatively early on any exchanges life but we're pretty sure that that's not the bulk of the losses I think that that that theory's been ruled out but but tone to your point there are two two incidental scams that actually were among the scams potentially depending on what happens with with what mark has to say but the first of those well I guess this is the big one the spread was higher on the boxes change so as greed was compelling people to trade there as opposed to other alternatives they were getting snagged in with some of that risk and the willy bot will we willy bot yes the willy bot is the big one the willy bot might have cost us all a lot of money if in fact the willy bot was responsible for the entire run up then we then we all lost you know the 50% or so theoretically on this value as a result of that operation yeah I'm the malleability issue the malleability was an attack at the hot wallet whereas the other hack may have been the cold wallet is that the main separation we have here Chris I don't think anybody has a real good idea how that got to be enough because I've heard a couple versions of that so these are good questions all right we just don't know go ahead I agree with the willy bot I think it caused a huge premium and a big coin price and that's why it took like a year and a half to correct I think willy bot had a lot to do with it but at that point he's a known scammer he's not a scammer it doesn't know he's scamming so that was kind of that was just kind of my point and I would love to hear how that I mean there's so many questions there I don't know how much he'll be willing to share because it might look bad for him even at this stage well I mean tell me this is a central joke on our show like some people aren't a scam yet so there was a time when Mark Carpellis wasn't a scam yet and then at some point he was on the Bitcoin foundation board he was a founding member right yeah at some point that change you got to like figure out like was it 2011 Mark Carpellis that wasn't a scammer was a scam or was it 2013 Mark Carpellis there was a scam so like there's no I know I know I I'm scared he's then you gotta remember I agree with you I agree with you but at the time when he wasn't a scam it was impossible it would have been incorrect to to call him and not a scam yet but will be for sure like we currently do with cloud mining if only we could time travel back and see where he would go on tome's chart but we should move on to the exit question exit question Carpellis blames the hackers but he was responsible for running the exchange at his Japanese trial force prediction Carpellis will be found Christopher Rose guilty or not guilty I know very little about Japanese culture but the impression I get is that when you're in court you're already guilty so I'll go with I'll go with guilty Theo Goodman I have a connection issue Theo are you with us almost okay sorry about that I had some technical problems excuse me it must have been someone trying to stop me from the deal was traveling to the future to give us the answer yes Carpellis yes that's right I don't know I don't I have no idea about Japanese legal system but I want to make one last comment that we have now come full circle magic the gathering exchange turned out to be an insecure exchange for trading cards and now you can trade rare pay pay cards on the decks 100% secure and you do not have to give up your private key we are have gone full circle ladies and gentlemen and to agree with Chris I have heard that Japanese society is very much if you're accused of something you must be guilty Gabriel Devon I've heard that same thing about Japan but you know given what the information that I've heard I would expect guilty of gross incompetence not guilty of no fizzence 50 50 tone vase wow so this is going to show how much I don't know about this case because I have not followed up with it until two minutes ago I was under the impression that he was already found guilty and he had already done his time and now he's free to go so I actually just learned that that the trial hasn't even started yet do we know when the trial is going to start we don't know it's a Japanese court system okay so I have absolutely no opinion on the subject because I was under the wrong impression from the start I have not followed up with his legal case that's why it's so important to ask in these questions in an interview and I did ask him in the mad bitcoin's interview how's the trial going Blake Anderson guilty or not guilty well there's no like emperor deciding this and some unilateral thing like 1968 now it's not 1868 anymore so they've kind of modernized their legal systems and then again even more recently in terms of being more western and actually trying to locate material sources of harm that you that make people whole or punish people so I mean I don't think he's going to get the death penalty or anything in Japan but I do think that they're going to absolutely identify material harm that his incompetence caused and they're going to charge him with what I think are probably you know punishments he I mean he's not going to make all the people hold that he hurts so I don't know what those punishments will be but I would not want to be him unless he can show in the trial that the hack was not his fault there is all will be guilty moving on to issue four issue four the Miami bitcoin conference tone veys and crystal rose were in Miami this week for the fourth annual Miami bitcoin conference a gathering of the industry and cryptocurrency enthusiasts mr. derose hopes hosted a show bitcoin uncensored let's start it out in the bathroom but ended up on their own couch with major interviews and stories to tell mr. veys mr. rose mr. derose how was beautiful Miami just go to Chris first yeah I was really hot or see this on the schedule here uh Miami's great I will shamelessly plug Miami for any bitcoiners listening it's a wonderful town there is a lot of bitcoin that is here and that particular week is like bitcoin week Miami we've got a number of events leading up to it I think the week before I had the New York devs come down that's my favorite bitcoin meetup that I've been to I've been to a lot that's number one in the country of not the world they came down they did a wonderful event on like technical details with bitcoin things that are new that followed that with the hackathon for which tone was in town and we did a wonderful job that that content will be up soon even discussing the the submissions and the outcomes and and all of that and then yeah the conference came you know I tried something a little different and the bathroom wasn't it by the way that the bathroom was fun that was different but the thing they try to different is I kind of ran my own conference with with John Seth and you know everybody that wants to be in a conference are generally vying for positions on the main stage and I was thinking like what should do with stage B if you if you didn't make it into the main stage you come over to us and we'll put you on the schedule somewhere so we did like a CEO panel we did a wall panel we did the usual John Seth and DeRose interviews uh with interesting people and frankly it is inspiring so much actually having to have that success and I want to see more people in the space do that kind of thing uh because I think it's a bit of a shame that uh the people that go to those conferences get maybe a little bit of a lopsided view on things they don't quite get as much content as could happen so I'm releasing your your content really allowed us to get to the man in the crowd maybe not the guy on stage but really if you have a project you're working on you're just as valuable as the people on the stage you might have might not have VC or a lot of funding but if you believe in your project you wanted to speak about it it seems like you gave them a voice and a chance to speak I was really unhappy I thought that he shouldn't have had an opinion without a whole bunch of VC backing so that he could speak from that perspective so I was not very happy with Chris for that reason go get some funding so you can speak for somebody that has you know a tainted opinion and then you'll belong on the main stage part yeah and your viewership is so small and nobody listens to your podcast or anything it's just like I don't even know why anyone spends any time on that dumb stupid stuff to talk about. I have read on Twitter that your opinion has no value how about that well I encourage everyone to believe that certainly that makes my show fun in fact if you do listen to the show please give us a one star review uh we were trying to secure a spot as the worst big podcast on the internet nitrous bitcoin um yeah you know I'm trying out this camming thing more and I'm really liking like exotica um you know because it gives you that personal feeling of like what's going on and I my rigged tone has been seeing my rig here getting better and better and I take the best spots that I find to be the best spots and I'm putting them up on youtube but I think that for a lot of people who want to go to the show they didn't have the money they can get a lot of that experience and feel just tuning in on the live stream um and then too what you know it's also kind of cool like Antonio and I've been talking about this like there's not an easy way for us to monetize what we do in the space but like live streaming has easy hooks for tips and I'm learning how to like use the audience and sort of give a little bit of my financial treatment to people that tip us uh because if they wanted like a question asked like there's a bunch of stuff coming in there's people whose questions are really good and I like but then you know what like sometimes a little money gives a little bit of a more attention maybe um and I could see I could see also people just paying for access at some point which I wouldn't even encourage tone to do maybe is to uh to you know have a small charge you know uh but I made a couple hundred bucks on the show all which we'll go back into the show um but all in all that was like a really big like event for me in terms of how I'm gonna structure things going forward so I'm glad that many of you tuned in for that and uh some things you won't be able to see other than on the cam show um we had a black top we called an escward up at the middle of the hackathon and uh that you'll be able to see I'll put that up but uh yeah black top came out and uh he talked about how the game is a little bit different now than the back page ads are being uh censored and what's different um about you know his his sort of life and we share that story so uh yeah we were trying a lot of new stuff on the cam on the cam go networks and uh I like it and I think that was just a wonderful conference all around we had a lot of great people there and um oh it all like I can I can't that's my current conference in this space really and uh where can the users find this great content uh cedar rose 36 is by youtube channel um but uh there's also the sound cloud stuff you can go to christerose.com and channel we find whatever I'm working on and tone how's the conference for you any highlights all right no I thought it was good let me try video here you guys let me know if uh if it turned off the video if uh I have a new internet problems um I mean I really came down to the hackathon I really enjoyed the hackathon uh I stayed for the conference and that was also pretty good but I barely attended any of the presentations I was like Chris I helped out on there on their show I was podcasting myself basically upcoming video blog and uh it was good it was good the hackathon was was really good I'm glad they um yeah like a video man we are coming video so um I'm glad that to let me be the key note speaker at the hackathon since I wasn't going to speak at the main conference and uh really enjoyed it I'll definitely be back next year uh for the hackathon again I'll stick around for the conference I'll try and make it to the beach next time but but it's good and also what Chris said about shini and exotica I might be moving some content there it does seem like a really cool platform um it would be nice to monetize a little bit I'm not even looking to like make money on this but I enjoy what I'm doing and I would love to like upgrade my equipment and provide better stuff for um for the viewers so just like Chris uh if I start monetizing these shows all the money would you funneled back into uh into just putting on the shows uh that would be great and uh I want to make it as voluntary as humanly possible and exotica seems to be doing a pretty good job so I gotta look into that some more it was great to see tone of the conference and his hash hash base shirt rocking the pay coin uh you know guys know that two years ago pay coin sponsor the whole conference at tons of ads multiple booths was there any pay coin representation this time no I think just me um I think I was the only pay coin representative there and I talked about it a little bit and uh yeah there I don't know if Chris is going to post the video but I was the one that hosted that lot uh the regulatory law panel from the bathroom and I play I I found my inner junsef and uh have to do a shirtless um I want to add real quick um yeah no I will be posting that video just yeah the legal panel definitely that's the far from panel um yeah so there so the thing you had to understand with the ABC okay and I I I Mo and I have but it heads a lot over the years but I got to commend him the guys were running a conference this lasted and one of the ways he does it is he lets the scammers come in and run their scams and they only show up once uh then they're done by this time next year it used to bother me a lot it still bothers but the truth is that like at some level in the space like the scammers are always going to be here so what I try to do is show a lot of the big coiners what it's like to go to the NBC so the scammers always want to be on like you know camera so they can pump their scams so we had a couple of them on press got regency seems like it's probably a scam I didn't get them on in full I got some representatives on so we'll see um I got a soft commit for some follow up there is a guy who is um I forget what it's called Durban what was that one telling Durban something Durman there's something like gold on the ethereum blockchain that's definitely a scam that guy and I don't know anything about that one I'm you I'm hearing from you now yeah that guy I don't even know how to describe it definitely stay tuned for that interview that guy scam this is one of those people scammers don't know that they're scamming he's been kicked out of like Dubai or something for running a scheme by which he's promising investors like 10% per month it seems like upon further inspection that the I guess the business plan was just to offer people 10% off of gold in perpetuity um and and like that was his business model I don't even know how to describe it but he he was interviewed um and so they they do have like petty scams you know what I've been giving away like less crap about them maybe maybe I shouldn't but like the truth is that like you're gonna have scams at the nabc it's part of the floor the experience we should probably brace it at some level but here's what I will say this is something I want all of you to kind of think about at some level I'm sorry I do a new thing we're like and I want the audience to really think about this like who to do these people work for that you're talking to is like I'm looking looking here okay and like I know that tone doesn't work for anybody tone will you know it looks at my equipment he says to me like that's a nice soundboard you know that's this and I'm like yeah it's a hundred bucks that's whatever and that tone is like well you know they're quick bit of ads up and I'm like I know but tone works for you the audience that's who he works for that's really oh well all of you guys do here they will crypto network but you know some places that aren't like that um episode of Bitcoin works for whoever their guest is that's who they work for they work for the guy who's promoting a product um the nabc on the mainstitch at stage pump remote works for whoever's for paying him to speak at his event but I don't work for that person I work for the audience so like for me I can deliver significantly better journalism and content because I don't owe anybody anything and it's up to me to give you guys better scoop that's watching so like I think we should be forcing more accountability in this space um asking these people like who the fuck they work for and not letting them off the hook if they say they work for the audience meanwhile they're pumping shit coins or some bullshit excellent points Chris and we're gonna move on tone to have anything else to add about the Miami conference no no I think um I think we covered it all um I strongly recommend people coming out next year definitely come to the hackathon that was uh very enjoyable that was a lot of fun um I'd really really enjoyed it can I weigh in really quick on this topic go ahead Blake uh I think that having real journalism is extremely important and uh is not necessarily valuable to decentralize everything but to disintermediate the value sources and journalism is extremely important Chris Ellis used to uh go to conferences and kind of run his own uh kind of show but what was going on and what he felt was uh being talked about or not talked about and that's very very valuable for for the space in terms of seeing things from a perspective that's not purchased by somebody and as innocent as you want to be if your perspective you know is is is modified by making or losing money that's you know that that's a huge compromise so I just just couldos to any show that not only goes out and tries to stir things up but I guess people that are safe enough to stick to their opinions until use their real names it's actually becoming a really brave thing to do anymore so when people are you know actually controversial enough to be funny on a show and they have the integrity to use their real name I mean I just love that I can't get enough of it so I think that uh the role of Chris don't trip the network could use more shows and all the people watching if you want to follow in the footsteps of journalistic integrity like we'd be more than happy to have you. Now let's move on to the exit question exit question what is the ideal location for a Bitcoin conference Gabriel D Vaughn. Some are warm, some are that smells better than Miami. I'm going to go with uh Chile, central Chile. Toe and vase. You know what I think Miami Miami is pretty good but by the way I got to do I got to do a plug this is what I forgot to mention the Uber prices in Miami are unreal the only country in the world that I've seen cheaper Uber prices was a Vietnam that is how Miami has become it was amazing so but having said that Miami still you know hotels are still pretty expensive on Airbnb's are still somewhat expensive people are south beach is still like 30 40 minutes away but but the climate is great the weather is great I am going to a conference in Mexico in a month but that's an alcohol co which is a bit of a pain the ass to get to all the way on the south coast there's no direct flight I would love to see a conference in Cancun it's fairly central Mexico it's fairly up north on it's about an equal distant flight from all of the major cities from America. It's a good party spot it's right on the beach and the Mexican pesos going down at price so if I had to randomly take a good destiny and it's good for foreigners because they don't have to come to the US and I'm sure they can get flights to Cancun without going through America so if anyone wants to do a conference in Cancun I honestly think that would be a perfect location conference in Cancun Blake Anderson the ideal location thank you I already know what I'm going to say the ideal location for a Bitcoin conference is in the frozen tundra of Minnesota that's absolutely where everybody wants to go ice castle so yeah ice castle I mean we can either go with Minnesota where it's really really cold and where I live or my ancestral land to Iceland and we know you you and Johnson you you you and Johnson we'll put it together we can have it you'll keep all the riff raf out because it's too cold so like Chris Rose won't be there and then we can you know plot like Jack the island and just carve up the industry and then he won't you know with his meddling kids won't be able to peel our masks off that'll be great uh no I think actually the Minnesota in the summer would be nice because it's uh you know really really lush and green there in the summertime and it's kind of centrally located other than that uh you know I don't know Texas was fun but um I like Minnesota better because I'm from here so I'm biased Chris de Rose well I'm very disappointed in all of you the correct answers at the moon every big quarter knows that you've all failed you're not there haha it's so hard to breathe on the moon of the oh goodman there's some been some good choices uh so far and uh I'm not sure if I have a better answer I was gonna say in a nuclear silo would be pretty interesting but I think it would be hard to get people to come there but it would force everyone to talk to each other for a long time so you couldn't get away from them if you're all in a nuclear silo together and the reason why we would be in a nuclear silo is that is a prepping action for the next conference which would be located on the moon at least we would be safe in the silo and while I'd like to go with my current hometown of San Francisco the correct answer is lost Vegas lost Vegas is the ILD location for a Bitcoin conference the flights are cheap though tells are cheap the rooms are cheap the girls are cheap the drugs are cheap lost Vegas is cheap lost Vegas is the place to hold your Bitcoin conference you can even invite me it's a cheap fight let's do it I agree I'm gonna change my official answer there's good cheap drugs in Las Vegas and we need to keep that in mind is one of the important factors they need to tell more people about it they even legalized a medicinal marijuana or something so it's all happening medicinal LSD for sure recreational not sure let's move on to predictions or story of the week Blake Anderson are you ready with a prediction or a story of the week yeah I guess I'm ready with a story of the week I a lot of my time is spent people coming with ideas and stuff like that for different companies that they want to start up in the Bitcoin space and I'm generally very hard on those people hopefully you know one-to-one but I think that if your idea can't survive my criticisms it's gonna have a really hard time going to market but I did hear of actually two really really good ideas this week that are really exciting one of the ideas in involves getting information into computers and into the internet which computers are not good at doing basically like images and driving and stuff like that kind of right brain more creative stuff identifying sentiment and stuff like computer suck at that without a giant amount of programming which then becomes unstable and hard to you know host and stuff so there is an idea for a Bitcoin company that's coming out with an app it's going to harvest sentiment and actual other types of information then help to integrate those into other networks so it will be a really really really big blow in terms of the general idea of you know technologically empowered collectivism it's probably what we don't want to see come from our current times what we want to see is technologically empowered individualism and kind of a solution to the current bond against a future of you know we've already disenfranchised you know manual labor and now we're going to disenfranchise kind of intellectual labor what are people going to do in the future in terms of money and wealth and transference up without becoming a communist nightmare I think a big part of that is finding ways of transitioning value in signals about and bringing on a new economy so when I see projects that do that and they don't centralize and do it in a irresponsible way like that's what really excites me so I would say if you're going to be out there looking for things to invest in please look for things that you're actually excited about and you think you're going to last please don't look for signals from venture capitalists that are just going to cast their net and try to find a unicorn because you know as small investors that's definitely not a good way to use your hard earned money you know the most direct way to vote is with your money so I'll probably try to give more specific data on this project coming up it's still an infant so I don't want to you know blow their can of beans but I think that the advice that I want to come from this is you know invest in things that you believe in for the love of God please don't go around trying to figure out who the smartest guy that you can latch on to is in what he's investing in because that's a pretty sure path to failure it's raining like crazy in San Francisco there's even thunder Chris to Rose okay so this is actually something that frankly I'm very passionate about you're all going to laugh I'm going to read off a tweet from Ryan Selkis the tweet is this the consensus conference is targeting 40% women and 25% people of color as speakers and you can apply to you know so and so for more details now and for definition sick those are quotas this is an issue that's been widely discussed affirmative action quotas you have different opinions but those are definitely quotas absolutely I mean there's a bunch you could read the thread and I highly encourage people to start chiming in on this because this is an amazing ridiculous issue you got that you got that in the email account right Chris what that that invite I don't think so yeah I've got I've got heads with him so much now that they've been taking me off there yeah I mean okay so I just have a couple quick points on this please if anyone can send me somebody to debate on this I'm dying to know why I'm a misogynist I have yet to get any easy answers that make any sense to me whatsoever frankly I don't I don't care about gender like it's almost impossible for me to be a sexist best I can tell because I don't even care enough about gender to be a sexist I don't mind if you have a penis or vagina and that is in fact the allegation is that I'm a sexist because I don't care about it but I'm not buying that and I feel like that argument implodes very quickly you're you're you're a white man promoting meritocracy how dare you promote meritocracy you dirty son of a bitch well what's the difference he says he's targeting 40% women in 75 and 25% people of color what's the difference if he had said he's targeting 60% men in 75% people white people like it's not focused on the quotas not the qualifications we shouldn't be judging if you're a woman or if you're a minority we should be judging if you have a good idea if you have an interesting if you've educated yourself if you worked hard these should be where we're judging but unfortunately we do have these quotas I think the issue here people want to improve things they want to include women in minorities but unfortunately they use these kind of blunt tools where they end up taking out what makes people unique what makes their projects interesting and then just making them numbers in this system but I think it's complex issue it's worse than that because what they're telling you is that like this person isn't good enough by male standards to speak but for a woman she's pretty good so that that sounds to me to be very sexist and you know what here's the thing too is it is it's unsustainable like if they want to get these people in that's fine but the problem is that you have people like Tony Lane casserole going on there embarrassing all of the women by saying things that she needs to uh the people women like cigarettes because they look like penises and she's grossly underqualified but that's as good as they could do um so it doesn't help women at all I think this is completely self-defeating um I try to try I can talk to Ryan about it there's no discussion that's the thing with these people there's no discussion you get blocked or they just like I'm not helping I'm not the dip out because there's no metacognition there they've never thought about it even for a second they're saying things to belong to a group and this gets into who do you work for because Ryan Salchist does not work for you the big players I know that because you guys are mostly mostly sensible people but you're also 96% men so who does he work for well he's he's pandering to the sensitivities of his advertisers seemingly or what I would have led more specifically is I think he's looking for like a promotion or a way out and he's looking to have some sort of like political record of uh leading you know a female initiatives in a way that can further his career that would be my more specific allegation but it doesn't work for you guys because you know what he would discriminate against you on these very ridiculous grounds it really against any gender he doesn't he's he's he's he's an even it is unfortunate tweeted seems that he's only tweeting these quotas to please melt him so that melt a moke get upset with them in the in the tweet I think we're discussing so and I think that it goes both ways you have to be critical of everybody like if if somebody was like I'm running a conference but I'm not going to invite and fight Elizabeth Stark because she's a woman I'd be like that's insane that's absolutely insane she's a brilliant brilliant speaker but we have had events in the past like the necker island events where women were not invited then the women were offered to stay on a separate island there's been some questionable elements there but again like Chris is saying it's not sure if these women were the cream of the crop or if they were just being included to include some I don't know I think anytime you're going to have somebody speak just because they are you know x or y then that's not meritocracy it's actually the bigotry of low expectations like Chris brought up it's not something that's neutral it's not virtue signaling if you actually think through the conclusions for what they are it's a terrible thing to support and to do the bigotry of low expectations is not just neutral and okay it's an extremely terrible thing when people post stuff like that with quotas and stuff and they're not realizing that they're doing that that's that's disgusting to me it's I mean it's it is no thought there at all I think it's just unbelievable that we're up here and we're men man explaining other men a good point to be able to see the whole male group today we are failing once again where man explaining the man's mailing the man's planning on the blockchain and we're going into the broke bro census this is not consensus this is now bro census and we've got a bro census this whole thing is totally out of whack and I totally agree it's not based on skills or merit it's just based on you know what gender you say you are and then you get a spot I mean that's definitely um I don't know how anyone doesn't see that as really confused and what I've seen on the tweets is that it's often about this is that it's often talked about in the context of appealing to a grocer audience so there's some kind of there's some kind of theme about yeah we got to get a bunch uh I don't know who is supposed to go there or be like a signal to virtue or maybe I think we all we all want Bitcoin to be interested in in or women to be interested in Bitcoin and Bitcoin is money and women use money women buy things but if they're not interested we can't force them to be interested and if only two or three of them are interested we might not want to have them speak there's a qualifications gap there but we do want the one and if you want and if we don't get if we don't get 40% women at the broad census then all we've got left to watch is NFL and MMA and that's not art. Here's another thing I would say is is Dara is she under the what what what what what what what what what what what what what what what what what what what is she representing is at the male or the women quota and what are the what are the what are the qualifications to being trans certainly I don't care like I just don't care if she has good content she can speak I don't care what the fuck she wears what she identifies as I'm only there for the content I think that Johnson is a notorious woman in the space and my suspicion is that they will be rejecting his his proposal on the grounds that he's not a woman to which I require that these people come and take a look at his vagina because I think that's what's appropriate. And it's true Chris once they start putting the percentages up they need to put a percentage up for everybody and then we're having a big percentage discussion go ahead Tom. Yeah let me jump on this I'm actually gonna I'm gonna yield my time to this. I don't have. I've just been busy over last week. But Chris I got a funny story of how we found this out. It's like a couple of us were sitting around the table last night. I'm going to go tonight to go then fluffy pony to show him this email and at the same time someone else whose name I don't want to mention he was looking at his phone and he almost threw his phone across the table and we were both like frustrated and then we realized we're frustrated over the same exact thing. We just happened to look at our phones at the same exact time. So that was really hilarious at the drink table last night. Let me just comment on this real quick. I'm actually going to put in an application to speak at I haven't had the time yet but I am going to reply to that email because I got the email in my inbox. I'll reply straight to it. I'm going to apply to speak because I think I am as competent of a speaker at these conferences as anyone and I mean anyone. I want to see if I get rejected from this conference and I probably will. Now as for the women issue there are competent women in the space should know who they are. If they don't know who they are I'll gladly give them a list. You contact them. You offer them you pay for their expenses to get to the cons and they will speak there. I would like to see Julia speak there. I would like to see Adele speak. Again the very competent speaker in the space. There are women they can speak. They should be reaching out to them and speaking. If they think the audience is worth listening to. Now Chris what you and I should do and I don't know if you've thought about this. Let's seriously start calling a back page and we can put together a panel of female users in the space of Bitcoin and pitch them this panel and see what they say. Well I mean here's what I would tell you that's perfectly fine. If I had the time for this conference I would actually probably be more involved in some of this. I would tell you to do one of the two things perhaps. Don't apply as a woman tone base or to make up an identity that's a woman. And then in the last minute like go over there have a KDP key to use for your emails or something and make up like an alias or something tell me a woman and then just show up his tone base and see what the fuck they do. You gain points with the community when you do that because now you're working for the community. I know that everyone in this channel wants to see you take a stand on something like that because it's bullshit. You get a lot of cred when you do and on that front by the way I wanted to mention Kyle Torpe is taking a leadership position on this and he did so right off the bat. Rather than work or theoretically at least the advertisers that Ryan Snellkiss seems to want to support. He went out and said this is bullshit and I know that Kyle Torpe is a great journalist in the space but he thinks about what the rarefacations are for his audience of these types of things and you should do it too. You know what push the lines push the boundaries. People want to see that kind of stuff. As long as this doesn't end in tone dressing in drag. Well I just wanted to add in really quick a journalism is reporting stuff that somebody doesn't want people to know everything else is public relations so I have to agree exactly with what Chris just said. Also we second Chris's shout out we had Kyle on the show last weekend featured one of his articles this week so great work Kyle. Kyle's nice. Telling anything else to settle this issue before we move on. Oh my god Tonya Mike is going to make me kill myself. I'll be heard with what? At this point like it might actually like this is not something I would say. His watch hate is forking. Oh well we went to you too but Chris anything more on this issue are we good to move on? No I think we're good to move on but I would encourage the community and the guys watching this to like just not let not let this fucking stuff stand like you're the guys who lose on that stuff like call out these people. This is how like just nonsense happens and it makes all big pointers look bad all of us. Theo Goodman do you have a prediction or a story of the week? Yes of course I have both a combination story of the week and more than one prediction because as you know it's NFL time this weekend and on Sundays the conference championship of the AFC and NFC the Green Bay Packers face the Atlanta Valkans and we have historical high total right now the total score is 60 over under 60 points historically high so I don't know it'll probably go over so that's my it's going to go over the total of 60 also a sub prediction the second half is going to be the highest scoring half and currently you get that prop bet at plus 100 the defenses are going to get tired and the second half is going to be the half with the most points that's an interesting one to look at also the Patriots face the Steelers I think the Patriots are going to cover the point spread of minus six points and that is the prediction of the week. Gabriel D. Vaan. I will not be speaking about the NFL today. I wanted to take things in the conspiracy theory direction as I want to do. Trump coming in I think amazingly enough I normally wouldn't say this but I do think that the Trump administration is actually the face of a new of a sea change in the deep state I believe that they have actually there's actually a new group of powerful individuals in charge of the United States and I don't really include Trump necessarily in those but perhaps as their minion so unlike many you know anarchists like Jeffrey Tucker who say you know oh it doesn't matter it's just yet another you know yet another face on the same state I think there actually will be quite a number of material changes coming to the United States as a result of this administration representing a new deep state alliance and so my first prediction about that is that we will see some massive data releases slash leaks slash dumps so all of the above so official releases like the CIA which just did one course under Obama a few days ago in addition to leaks coming out from the new administration or various people in the underlings and my first prediction of the leaks is some we're going to get some information about Antarctica coming out very soon that's my prediction I was hoping for UFOs can you tie it in with UFOs or the UFOs Antarctica yeah yeah basically yeah well Nazi base from the from the 40s that's been in continuous production with the anti-gravity craft so that's that's the just and and also ultra ancient ruins I do always wonder with transition of power to transition of power why we don't find out about Ross well or why don't we don't find out about yeah yeah I think we're gonna actually start to see that stuff over the coming years but Antarctica news about ancient ruins and and extremely advanced technology first maybe I want to link into that because if we're if you're gonna link into Antarctica and ancient ruins of course there's definitely a connection between the magical disappearance of climate change from the website suddenly and that must have to do with a cover-up with the Antarctic thing and also just say it three times slow three times fast trumpence trumpets the trumpets of the book of revelation it's the apocalypse the escatatological connections are absolute I thought for sure we were going that Pepe carvings had been found in Antarctica but we'll have to wait till next week for that you know I tell you they realize that theo is just what day with trade with Dave was like what he was the was age like the o will become trade with Dave in another like 20 30 years or so keep going tone veys prediction or story of the week none I'm good I yielded my time over to the to the issue of the your full conference the audience wants more they want tone dressed in drag at the next conference but oh I was saying I don't know if you guys hear me but you know what if I have more free time on my hands and more like resources like if I was big on how much more free time you're gonna get no it's actually no well anyway I if I had more free time and more resources on my hands I probably would quickly come up with like a female identity and then show up and track because at this point this space is getting so ridiculous that did that maybe that will like you know be is what's needed I don't know I got the show and drag every single time that you're at the conference except for when you're speaking when they call you up you like I changed my heart as my prerogative as a woman check it out check it out tone with the accent over the E is like tonay you know and that's your other that's the you're speaking um roll this show is going downhill fast nobody got a black face no black face sorry sorry I did not how do you gotta try to engage the audience a little bit too I've been doing this more and more as the audience grows this has been working a little bit better but like I would just go so far as it say like tone if if someone in the audience managed to do an application as a woman would you then go as that woman to this event I would okay so there you go so audience if you want to see that happen that's something you can do to make it happen and I would love to see it happen so hopefully one of you does it yeah just a little bit of homework I want to be there I was actually the whole time to make them uncomfortable no I was actually gonna hit up some of the names I mentioned earlier and you know what like because if going back sees this you know that the whole scam is is up so let me let me not let's talk about my plans on the year they don't do any research we're safe yeah nobody don't watch those any watches these shows there's no nobody watches them except them that's why they know all about it but and finally a prediction or a story of the week my story of the week is agree to disagree liberals are freaked out right now conservatives are very happy but I think what's important is that we both say what we believe in be honest about it and then agree to disagree we're not gonna get together I'm not gonna convince you you're not gonna convince me we're both gonna have to sit on the sidelines and see how this trump thing plays out the early signs I'm still freaked out the early signs I don't you're ignoring them or you don't care or you think it's gonna be good so we're gonna wait and see how it goes but in the meantime let's try to agree to disagree let's try to come back together as you know reasonable people who can have political views and espouse them but at the end of it let's not fight forever because I'm gonna keep espousing my liberal using you're gonna keep espousing you're conservative views and we're both not gonna stop so let's just agree to disagree and that's about it for this show and we're running out of time so until next week bye bye