#114 — The Bitcoin Group #114 - Zcash Unleashed, Bitcoin Price Rises, Barclays Says No, Stash Node Pro

Though Bitcoin Group, the American original, for over the last 10 seconds, the sharpest sitoshes, the best big coins, the hardest cryptocurrency talk, we'd like to welcome our panelists, Theo Goodman from Hasse online. Good evening everyone. Gabriel D. Vine from Future Rant. Good afternoon internet and hello, posterity. Great to be here. Toned Vays from Liberty Life Trail. Good evening everyone. It's going to be a great episode. Chris Ellis from Pro Tip in the World Crypto Network. Welcome to the Tony Vaesha, I'm going to say proud to be here. And I'm Thomas Hunt from the World Crypto Network, moving on to issue one. ZCash unleashed. ZCash exploded onto the futures market this week and now has been released into the wild. The allegedly anonymous and encrypted cryptocurrency who was blessed itself by Bitcoin developer Peter Todd at its baptism can now be mined by anyone. Zuko himself presented this week at the San Francisco Bitcoin meetup, answering any and all questions about the Zafte cryptocurrency, including questions from that loud Vitalik Booter in himself of Ethereum fame. Will it work? Will ZCash truly be anonymous and are investors correct in guessing that people will pay almost anything to be truly anonymous online? Theo Goodman. Mr. Theo, you're muted. Can we hear you? Did you ask me so? You're number one. Will people pay anything to be anonymous online? Is ZCash going to succeed? Well, one way to help yourself succeed is to have a very high price upon launch because then all of the miners will freak out and everyone will think it's the coolest thing ever to mine it. It's even double cool if you get 20% of all the mine stuff and everyone's mining it like totally nuts. I think that if I understand right, they've already accidentally mined three days worth of coins in less than a day or something like that. I don't remember the numbers. Something is up with that. Will people pay anything for it? I don't know. But this is one thing that can happen when you have a futures market open for something that doesn't exist yet. And I think there was only two to one leverage on BitMix, but it doesn't really matter. It could have even been one to zero. If you had that also with Lisk, MioBit had basically a future on it with no leverage and that got pumped up really high. So just using the same model that we've seen before, except that this is not an ICO coin. It's a mineable coin. But what you do is you get somebody, let's just say as conspiracy theory, somebody gets the price going up before creates a lot of hype. They could sell on the launch like when it launches on Polo or wherever. But what you do is you're going to bait a whole bunch of people to mine this. And I think that probably on Google, we're going to see this crazy surge of searches. How do I mine? ZCash. What I want to say is if you think ZCash is cool, P cash. P cash is definitely cool. And even while we were preparing for this show, ZCash started out around 3,000 Bitcoins per one ZCash. We've then seen a fall all the way down to about 16 Bitcoins per ZCash. Then just as we were discussing the show and getting going, it's rebounded to 24 Bitcoins for ZCash. We've seen it in the 32 down to 16 up to 24. Just some really interesting stuff. I suppose if you had bought it 16, you could now sell it 24 at a fantastic profit. Gabriel, Devon, your thoughts on ZCash. I'm so surprised that you called on Theo and me instead of the resident ZCash commenters here. I mean, tone and Chris' opinions are going to be about 50,000 times stronger than Theo's in mine. But hey, why not? I just definitely saw this one coming. I didn't have time to jump in and leverage the stupidity of young men as Vene Gupta who called them young men who can't control their risk appetite for speculating on these technological innovations and losing huge amounts of money and he was pointing to ethical and moral considerations in drawing wealth off of these unfortunate men of low wisdom. So yeah, I'll apparently chuck things in a warm up back. It's just you wait until we get to the other topics, Chuckie Boy. You know, ZCash, it was very obvious to see this pump and dump coming from a mile away. I was chagrinned to read about a 20% founder, quote unquote, reward, built into the mining. So basically the clients, I guess, as the protocol as it exists now, whenever the block reward comes out, every block literally 20% of it is siphoned off into a bunch of addresses that are hard-coded into the protocol that I just read on the protocol white paper. Now the mathematics for the founder reward were far more complex. I was not able to parse it and the 20% number is hearsay. I really definitely can't arrive at that number myself from the math equations in the white paper. I will say about this white paper in comparison to the steam white paper, which was essentially when you are walking down the middle of the supermarket and I say middle because that's where all the junk food is. You grab that box of chicken and a biscuit or whatever, lab coat guy created foods that were whatever user tested in labs. And you get this funky edible substance that provides the body no nutrition. You look at the ingredients and there's weaponized wheat is the first ingredient and then the rest is just gobbledy-gook filler. And that's what the steam white paper was. It was absolutely full of total trash. Tone did a thorough and excellent analysis. I encourage everyone to take a look at his tweets or blog Liberty Life Trail that's to see the work that he did on that, the good work. Unlike that, Z-Cache from the protocol white paper, it definitely, that is a white paper. Steam it was not a white paper. That was basically what you might call a canard to distract people and make you think that there's a white paper, make you think that they actually put in the work to create a real system when it was complete bullshit. Z-Cache is obviously a real thing. Now just kind of something's a real deal. It doesn't mean that it can't hide scams like this founder reward. You could argue that it's not a scam and that the founders reward deserve 20% of all the mining revenue and perpetuity. I don't know if that's what it is, but that's what it seemed to be for me. Or maybe it trails off over time, I'm not quite sure. Maybe you could argue that they deserve that. Certainly it's a real white paper. Zuko is obviously, as far as I'm aware, a real researcher with actual code under his belt. And please correct me if I'm wrong, rest of the panel. This seems less scammy than the Dow or Steam it, some other scams that we've been calling out recently. However, I have been hearing some code smells or smelling some code wafts about some centralized delegated, federated infrastructure that is not quite a decentralized crypto cache. So anybody jump in on the chat and let me know if you know anything about that. So that could be a real problem because as you know, especially a privacy and an anonymity focused altcoin like Zcash would be a juicy target for those who wish to surveil and control transactions. So anything that is centralized and can possibly be tracked or linked to human beings made out of atoms as we are, it would be a very, very big problem for the future of this. In addition, I don't get the impression that a single one of these innovations that have been placed into Zcash couldn't extremely easily be brought into the Bitcoin ecosystem with pull requests over the following year to three at the most. So this is a limited time offer of pump and dump goodness. I feel free to jump on and gamble and incur Mr. Gupta's condemnation. We do have a Zcash price update. It was at 16 rows to 22. Now it's back up to 28. This is an incredible pump. We're talking not dollars. We're talking bitcoins. It's jumped that many bitcoins. I don't even understand. So did we miss another opportunity? Should we have been day trading before the show? Tell us about Zcash. Oh man. All right. So since Zcash is a topic, I once again had to go and dig up my shirt. My famous shirt that I wear when a topic like this comes up. I'll let you regular followers of the show should know exactly what that symbol is. So many of the traders of Zcash might have been too young to know that symbol. All right. I just want to screen real quick. Get some. Get some disclaimers out of the way. All right. So this was a chart from May 20th about a month before the Dow imploded. This is the day I first heard about the Dow. The following chart was released. This chart was updated. The Dow imploded on June 18th and June 19th. This chart was updated where the Dow has been replaced by steam it. You see the Dow right there has been replaced by steam it. And then earlier this week, I believe Monday on October 24th. I a little bit about Zcash. My usual 10 to 15 minutes in the early on. I think it's going to be a little bit more than I expected. And there it is. It's on record. It's on. That it's on record. It's on video. I Zcash. I never thought the Dow would debede in stupidity. And then the God gave us the blockchained Jesus gave us steam it. And now blockchained Jesus is given us. I Zcash. So. Okay. So the Dow was more of just complete nonsense and stupidity. It's hard to say that a bullet that it was a blatant scam. I'm steam it is a blatant scam. Daniel Latimer is a serial scammer. That one is a down was easy. So Zcash is a little bit harder. Where is it? Here we go. Zcash is a little bit harder on the scam side because they are at least understand what Bitcoin is. They tried getting as done as a Bitcoin BIP. The smart people at the core developers and blockchained block stream. They told them this is stupid. And. And therefore he had to go and create a coin. And oh, I also tweeted out some suggestions for people for comments. These are past comments about the Dow and what I've said about monero and steam. So they could look at my Twitter and I've already prepared comments for you. All you have to do is you can still curse me out. All you have to do is just simply replace the Dow or steam or monero with the current pump of choice, which happens to be Zcash. So they have to know this is nuts because this cannot compete with Bitcoin for the same reason that monero couldn't at least now all of them and a lot of the monero pumpers will jump on the bandwagon. You guys mentioned the price and this is where let me talk about the good part right so I'm going to defend before a minute, which was my that's our chat. Here it is. I'm going to defend. I'm going to defend. I'm going to defend. I'm going to defend. So this is just highlighting the stupidity of this thing. They decided to throttle how much is he cash is going to come into existence in the first block in the first day. So here's someone's estimate. I know Theo said that they already overshot this. I haven't heard that speculation, but this was supposed to be one of the estimates. Nobody knows. Nobody knows. This is complete randomness. So after the first day, we're only going to have 104 Zcash. So that means when Zcash started trading, there was a less than a one Zcash there. So when you get this price of, you know, $2,000, $2,000, 5 coins per one Zcash, there is no one Zcash. I don't think this is a right. I don't think that's a right way to price Zcash. Like until someone is trading, you know, three to four Zcash in one lot, you're not going to get a true price. And this is what makes this incredibly stupid. And, and forget the 20% of the founders, obviously that's, that's bad because Zcash is a company. It's not even a coin. It's like, you don't even know where to begin. I'm sorry guys, I know I have these rants with a Dow and with steam it. And I wouldn't really, I didn't really got one off on Monero. And I never really want all fun dash, but I could have. But on, but in this case, it's like, they should have done the opposite. They should have, they should have had more supply in the beginning. So kind of like a theory, right? I mean, a theory was a scam in a different way, but at least when a theory and began trading, there were 60 billion ether. And there was enough supply from the crowd from the illegal ICO. And then they build up another year of what you call up hype. And then when there was second layer of demand, there was plenty of supply. What Zcash should have done is they should have done it the opposite way. They should have had like, I guess, in the mine as long as it's fair. So there is at least supply or they should have struck a deal with the miners and exchanges. I'm saying that for the first month, you can't trade the coin. And I know this sounds crazy, but they could have easily accomplished this deal with some kind of a contract saying, if the top 10 miners and the top 10 exchanges break this agreement, we're going back to the Genesis block and everything that you've mined, will be a waste of energy and a waste of your money. They should have had the opposite thing. They Zucos been pitching this nonsense for two years. He might be the only person that's been to more Bitcoin events than I have in the last two years. That's actually saying something. He's been getting funded and they want to get their money back. They're collecting 20% from every block for the first four years. That's what I believe. That's what I'm finally someone explained to me is how they're doing it. 20% for the first four years will equal 10% over the lifetime of the coin. After the first four years, supposedly a quarter of the or half of the supply would have come into existence. So they'll get to keep that. This is really bad. I saw the list of the investors in this thing and it's Roger and it's Barry and a bunch of other people I don't know, but I know Roger and Barry and I don't know. I'm just it's getting hard. It's getting hard to like apologize to these guys because I like them as people. But when they keep doing stuff like this, it makes it very, very difficult. I think Zcash is completely stupid. It's the latest squirrel after Monero was the previous latest squirrel. And in three months, there'll be another pump. I mean, I want to say this is a stupid as we get. It's going to be another one. I'll let Chris talk about a more specific situation that he mentioned in our green room. So I will leave it at that. Maybe I'll come back in if I think of anything else. It's just so stupid. I don't know. It's been tough to watch with Barry as well, Tony. Have you seen his Twitter lately? He's very much celebrating Zcash announcing it, promoting it. And then if you look at something like coin desk, the independent journalism company that he bought, they've been announcing it and promoting it. Not that there wasn't enough hype out there anyway, but they're just adding to it. Can't they just quietly enjoy their victory? Wouldn't that be a better way to go, especially potential violations? I got that's, I mean, I agree with that. And also the own coin desk, like coin desk writes an article about Zcash and at the bottom this claimer, coin desk is owned by the digital currency group. I always get them. Yeah. And when you see it on every single article, and I mean, I applaud DCG for investing very well, but the coin desk purchase seems so questionable when every single article has it at the bottom. We invested this company to, I mean, I don't know, it's just that it's very curiously. Yeah, no, no, it's really bad. Like this is one of my problems with Barry lately is because of this kinds of, this kinds of stuff. And it's like, and I even talked about it. And here is one more. So I know I want to have Chris talk, but I know if people can see this, but if you look at his, if you look at his fund, it's in the last 365 days, well, I snap, I did this like a month ago. So, but in the last 365 days, his, his Bitcoin fund returned 200% percent, while Bitcoin only returned 165%. If you, if you understand markets, if you understand trading, this is, so either his fund is going to crash or there's something going on there that I don't want to speculate on because I know I don't want to get a, you know, season, and that's a kind of a lawyer action from Barry Silver, but this is not normal. This, this is, I don't know, Barry's been, Hey, Ton, Ton, I'll shake you later. Certainly that premium derives from the, from all the lawyers and paperwork and red tape that they went through in order to get their thing on the exchange where people can use their retirement accounts that has very different capabilities than Bitcoin and very different tax implications. So that supposedly is the reason for the premium, but I think in the long run, what you're saying about that divergence is probably true, I think. I, that maybe, I mean, it made, yeah, like a quarter of that money is going to be taken out in taxes. Then they kind of did make the same. I agree with Gabe. I think that Bitcoin that you can trade with the exchange traded fund are different than normal Bitcoin, which are different than Bitcoin that you get directly from the miners. So we want to Chris Ellison, see what you have to say about Z cash. What did you think of the very exciting launch today? It took me back down memory lane, and I want to take you with me. Do you remember 42, the 42 coin with the sketch that will only ever be 42 coins ever in its existence? Would you just loved own a whole one? Right? And so look, I can't add a whole bunch to what some very erudite people have already talked about. I have kind of now renamed this show officially to the Tony Vase group. I have announced on Twitter, so it is official. But what I want to do is I just want to hone in on something very specific, which is this website, BitMex, and how a lot of people are getting rex. I am a member of the the Whalepool chat group, Whalepool.io. It's a team speak chat room. So it's like, you know, you get on your mics and you can start talking about trading and how to get into mining and stuff. And basically a lot of the people in there have said that they keep getting rex on BitMex. And the reason is for this reason, it's the way they do the handle the isolated margin. Basically, when you're margin trading, you're borrowing against collateral that you put down. And in the case of Zcash, you're allowed to borrow two times whatever you had to. You've had a Bitcoin in your margin account. You could spend up to two Bitcoins worth. And then as the price goes up and down with market trends, they will dynamically deduct and will add back any profits that you're making. But if your account goes beyond your ability to pay in your isolated margin account, obviously they will do something called a margin call, which is where they will essentially take all of the money away at a market order. They will sell your investment for you forcibly. And the reason this has happened to so many people is because the interface on BitMex website is very different to other platforms that people might be used to using. And what's happening is that they're getting you in such a low, such a high sort of leverage and low risk limit that you can easily be margin called without even realizing it. So I put in a bid earlier on today just for one Zcash coin. I thought, fine, you know, take part in this little, you know, Ponzi scheme, whatever this little lottery, I guess. And I put one bid in and I was margin called within 30 minutes. I came back to the computer and I had a lot of money for somebody like me who doesn't earn any money, taking out my accounts. I had a fact that that happened. And I went on to the team speaking, everyone's like, oh, yeah, you should have used cross margin. Oh, great. Because what happened was that Zcash just don't went down on the WIC because they've got crappy liquidity on BitMex. It means the price can go from like 0.8 down to 0.4, like even quicker than Poloniacs does. Poloniacs actually has quite a lot of liquidity, a lot of people are trading. But what happened earlier on in the day was it went down to 0.4. I got my bid field at 0.7 or whatever it was. And it went it bought for me. But then it liquidated me within minutes. And so just to warn you, I mean, I have, you know, how to go at Sam before and I sort of poked him on team speak and I put out public warnings on Twitter. I mean, just use, I've heard it really experienced traders talk about how they they've margin called themselves just by pressing a button, you know, just pressing the wrong button, just an honest mistake, like they pressed a button. And suddenly they had like a chunk of Bitcoin just lost. So please use this platform at, you know, at your peril because they were trading the problem with this pump and dump is that they were trading this before even launched, which just added to the speculation even more is bad enough as it is with, you know, Vinny good test saying that, you know, this generation of gamblers, you know, just don't know their own mismanagement. I was saying that four years ago, feather coin meetups and Bitcoin meetups and none where I said, you know, be honest with yourself about your tolerance to risk and people just just weren't being honest with themselves. So this is the website, not saying that I'm not saying the bad people perfectly nice people is just that a combination of low liquidity, high leverage with this crappy at risk. So you have to press this tiny little button here, can you see my cursor. So this button right here at the bottom, you see it's got a little penny, you have to press that first and you have to tell them that your initial mark, you want your initial margin to be to be bigger, otherwise, like I say, you can be margin called in a matter of minutes. I had, you know, some other thoughts on it as well, but I think, you know, they've been so, so well covered. I would like to say that with all these pump and dumps that we're all in a big, well-thread distribution game in this crypto world. And, you know, that cope doesn't pay for itself, you know, these developers as repcible as they are like Zuko and Sukos, try famous, Sukos, triangle, he is a very repcible guy doesn't mean he's not greedy, doesn't mean that, you know, his business team can't go off and come up with a fraudulent money supply system. And he just kind of, you know, see, see no evil, here's no evil speaks, no evil, and just kind of gets on with his job. Just because people are smart, doesn't mean that they're not dishonest, and more money will be made on shorting this, when eventually, because there are some really good traders out there who know how to short these pump and dumps. And when these coins top out, more of the money gets distributed to all the people further on down the line. So those are my thoughts. All right, well, we've been speaking Z cash rose to around 28 bitcoins. Yeah, Tom, Tom was at 33 mentioned something. Look at that chart. Look at, it hasn't even got the top volume. It's not as high as X and Mars, not as high as Ethereum. Look at how many bid, it was on the bid side, 800 bitcoins on the bid side. That's not the book isn't thick enough. Like the look at the people that are on this list of investors. Look at the people that are involved. You're fucking Gavin and Jason. Really? There's almost four Z cash available for sale. All right. Mind. This is an orchestrated pump and dump. This is how it works. I almost prefer the old days of Fontas. You know, at least back then you kind of knew you were getting screwed. And it was all like upfront. And he used to laugh about the fact that everyone secretly enjoyed it anyway, you know, whereas this is like a proper coordinated we're going to buy a news website and, you know, pump out, you know, material through there. We can like take control of all the information channels. The people on this list of contributors are serious individuals who have a lot of clout in this industry. They can organize. You know the exchanges. They can talk to they can pick up the phone. They can talk to Sam and pitmix. They can organize things happen. And that's how they control the price. So just be careful. I mean, I'm not going to I'm not going to take the price seriously until there's like, you know, at least several thousand of a Z cash coins out there. Like until I see a trade go through for over one Z cash. I that'll be like the first price. I'll kind of take seriously. And I kind of already know what is going to happen. It is going to be like the steam chart. And I just tweeted this out the other day where steam it has lost exactly the same amount as the US dollar only steemit did it in three months as the US dollar took a hundred years to achieve this. And steemit has lost 95% of its value because the day I'm using for steemit is the day people heard of it. Not the day the pre miners had it, but the day the world heard of steemit. It had no supply. It was all in steam power. 99 over 99% of all steemit was locked up in steam power like a CD. So you it wasn't there on the market. The steam hits the news. People want to buy it, but there's nobody there to sell it. And now they're able to liquidate it through steam power one week at a time. And this is what you get you lose 95% of your value. And it's only the beginning because it takes two years to power down your steam. And it's only been three months. So we're not even like one eighth of the way of liquidating all that steam. That's why steam has gone is zero. And Z cash is going to have the same problem. This is. I've got a ton. I've got a final thought here though because we want to move on to other topics. And that is that people there is a never ending stream and more and more creative ways of making an exit scam in this industry. It seems to me. Right. People just keep on coming up with like power downs and power ups and like secondary coins in US like floating tokens and they've got like this like ultra scarce coin in the beginning. And then it's like an inflationary period. And then that now because you remember like the old days of the pre mine like that was it. You know, at least the pre mine now that give themselves a 20% cut of the mining or throughout that's like a whole other level. They got to they got to get more and more creative with how they came money from people that have no business in this in this mass like I don't trade all the coins. That's all about the tech man. Yeah. The thing is the thing is it's not about the tech. There's a thing. All this tech is so easy. And like it's like we did this in the nighties and all satoshi did was assemble it in a certain order. And ever since then they've just been reassembling the pieces. And because these code is not know what they're doing they're like yeah sure I can do that for you. That's really easy. But we'll tell them it's worth $60 million. You know, like it's just a joke. This is all open source code. It's a copy paste job and you're paying the millions of dollars and you're enjoying getting fucked in the process. Unbelievable. All right. Let's move on to the exit question exit question. The price of Z cash next week up or down. Feel good man. Oh, it's next week is still going up. We have not seen the top. This thing is going to the moon everybody and just get you know hold on tight and get ready for alphabet. Point of the week. You can bet your pet base on it. Gabriel D. Vine. I believe that the price action is now complete. We will be staying at exactly 31.98999999 for the foreseeable future. I'm thinking probably till 2140. Forever it's done tone days. I don't know. I mean, I don't this is like the one question I can answer was easy with steve it was going to keep going down from the day that I heard of it. But this one because there's no freaking supply. I mean, it's it doesn't matter. Everyone is trading them at like 0.0001 Z cash. For god knows how many bitcoins I don't think that's that's not normal. I've never seen this before like ever and like probably in history that's something like this happen. So I'm going to say well, obviously the the very first trade. If you normalize it that will never be achieved. I can see it going to like I can see some idiot buying one Z cash for like 100 bitcoins. I can see that happen. I would think that would be the high like the moment I see one like someone committing 100 bitcoins to one Z cash. That would be my high for like one complete. And I'm not going to get into the topics but we didn't have time to talk about the nonsense of why does anyone need fully anonymous currency and we didn't even have time to talk about the nonsense of the whole seeding parameter where they have to get like eight people in the room and eight of eight multi-sick. I mean, those are just like the obvious things to talk about that wouldn't have time. Well, I don't forget the obvious pump when a dark net market starts accepting Z cash. It's going to go up like crazy. There's lots of great things to pump this stuff. But that's not going to happen until the dark net markets, you know, load up at a nice low price so that they said they're not profiting from the acceptance of the coin. They're going to make all their profit in the first 20 minutes because they're going to load up on the coin before making the announcement. This is this is what insider trading is, but it's that but that one maybe a legal version of it. I actually think the dark net market that did accept Monero didn't exit scan so I called it on that day. I mean, I can't prove it but and I hope they I hope they did. Shit, I don't want I wouldn't blame them for it. I always said about sheet market place. They said the service was great right up until that last weekend. Chris Ellis. We're going under the next topic. I think we made it through. Yeah, I know Chris, we still have the price of the cash up or down. Yeah, I was going to say if you don't know who the fool is in the room, you're the fool. And if you're not in on it, if you haven't received any like Skype calls, you're not in those user groups, you're not in the Slack channel. You're not going to be the one to make money on this. All right. And the people that tone said 100 Bitcoin, that will be somebody on the inside buying that for 100 Bitcoin. And it's easily worth it if they've already made thousands of Bitcoins so they can at least present the illusion. So it's yeah, it's about appearances. I'm not not making predictions on prices only. But you will you you will like after this is over from people that made millions on this. You're not going to hear from the people that lost the shit lot of money. You will hear from the few winners like the guys in the chat that were telling me they're going to buy the world crypto network and they'll hire me to be their shoe shiner because Manero was going to the moon. And my answer was to him, I bet you in three months, you're going to switch your tune to Z cash and I said it's like. So we're going to be the moon. We could use some shoe size men. All right. Let's move on issue to Bitcoin price rises the Bitcoin price continued to rally from 630 topping 650 and even reaching 690. Allegedly this rise in Bitcoin prices being caused by Chinese investors who are turning to Bitcoin in order to diversify to avoid you on did appreciation Gabriel D. Vine is this Chinese rocket fuel. We needed to get to the moon will the price of Bitcoin continue to rise. I don't believe that it was the only factor, but I'm sure that you want devaluation as well as capital controls and other portions of the Chinese market that are mentioned in this article are playing a role right now in the rise in Bitcoin. I'm sure and even if it's relatively minor, I'm also quite certain that the having have an ink supply squeeze is still continuing. So as I have outlined before on the show my theory was that in order to soften the blow possibly even first having around in 2012, but certainly this time miners were surely stockpiling. Part of their Bitcoin mining rewards as much as they could in maybe a possibly smooth curve or flat curve completely flat way. So they just basically pull off a steady amount that's increasing until the haveening at which point they then have a backstop of previously mind fresh Bitcoin virgin coin that they then hold and gradually pay sell in order to bolster their proceeds to soften the shock of the haveening and their revenue stream. Droping by 50% so I think that a lot of mining miners have been doing that the ones that were able to and that didn't have to immediately pay other bills were surely stockpiling and had a good amount of supply at the haveening but they've been tapering that amount. Every day probably they've been lessening lessening lessening until they can get down to something that's sustainable with the current block reward of 12 and a half Bitcoin every block. So that process in my opinion is going to take at least six months I'm sure that they plan for us you know a year period of tapering before the haveening and six months after the haveening. So we're in the middle of that now the chart looks eerily similar to the chart in early 2013 where after the haveening in November of 2012 the miners or the there was price action pushing up now I don't know if it's going to look like that continuing but that is kind of what happened somewhat around around the last haveening although this time there was much more telegraphing with a little pump beforehand and the peak in US dollar market cap happening back in June before the haveening so that's an issue we've also got wider markets in very weird uncertain territory a lot of that is due to the American election which is causing a lot of jitters all over the world in general ways politics as well as economics and you know look at the bond price bond yields are very volatile it's the world has gotten more volatile as the market cap of Bitcoin and transaction volume of Bitcoin goes up now Bitcoin's volatility is that of a moderate to small equity so it's actually you know kind of a moderate volatility asset at this point nothing too crazy when people say oh well certainly for a currency it's high volatility but then you look at the British pound that's seeing some really high volatility Chris knows that for sure it's down to about a buck 20 I think right now that's pretty intense yeah exactly Chris knows about it only because he gets more for his money now if he keeps savings in Bitcoin over there so you know Bitcoin is showing a lot of strength it's rising against the dollar that's experiencing a heavy deflationary period down dollar and exposing pushing 100 so there's a lot of factors it's not just China but as far as retail investing I'm sure that a big portion of it is coming out of China and lastly I'd like to quickly just point out that the most important Bitcoin software upgrade in possibly four or five years just happened this week version 0.13.1 is an absolute landmark in Bitcoin sister we can talk about it later maybe story of the day all right segregated witness I've been hotling and I'll just keep hotling tone veys all right so I am not I mean I'm sure the Chinese crackdown against you know they are the way they're used their money I'm sure it's a factor I don't think it's de factor I mean I everyone is speculating there's absolutely no evidence no one is an expert in this stuff I mean for all I know all the speculators are actually leaving Bitcoin because every month there is like the new greatest thing and our underlying economy is growing I mean our underlying economy is filled with you know crypto locker and back page and alpha bay and the gambling sites but it's still an underlying economy that has like every month is growing with the demand for Bitcoin I don't know speculate like maybe a few Chinese people are like diversifying into Bitcoin but I don't want to speculate I haven't seen any evidence of that everything I've heard from the Chinese people that I've talked to if you're rich you have plenty of ways to move your money I think that you want devaluation people are screaming like you got to stop listening to Trump this devaluation is not big it's freaking tiny I mean the the euro and the British pound are having a significantly higher currency devaluation than the Chinese are South American countries are having a way higher currency devaluation than the Chinese are have millions and millions of dollars you you're not gonna put I'm sorry if you have millions and millions of you one a speculative asset like Bitcoin unless you understand this space in order to save you know what 1% of currency devaluation come on give me a break I don't buy that stuff um It makes sense that some of the Chinese are buying all that mining gear in order to turn You know registered value into you know unregistered value that they can move That idea makes some sense But for what I'm hearing it's really not that hard Uh To move your cash Uh over there. I mean it may sound hard But everyone knows everyone that will move it at the rate of $50,000 a day and it stays in the currency that you know So I'm not gonna speculate that it's all coming from the Chinese it's a it's coming as much from the Chinese is coming from the Europeans I don't know Leave it at that Oh good Uh yeah there's I think we've covered a lot of the things it doesn't really matter if the Devaluation of the one how large it is it just matters that that is perceived as Something that fuels the price and that's already done right now So that is everyone's eyes on China as far as coin trading And since because of that that's why the yuan devaluation Is such a big thing every day if there's an announcement even if it's just like 0.1% or something yeah, sure that's not really big compared to the pound or something like that But it doesn't really matter. It's just the perception and it's because it's China and as far as Bitcoin trading We all know all the volume for a large part is in the Chinese exchanges now of course Americans Um other people could be trading there theoretically, but it doesn't matter There are the Chinese exchanges everyone calls that China But there could be other reasons why people um In or are interested in Bitcoin and there is a lot of uncertainty coming up with the US elections So who knows maybe that's fueling a little bit of it Um, maybe people need to buy Bitcoin so they can bet on NFL and bet on the election Maybe people need to uh buy Bitcoin because of the other things like back page and all that That's definitely going up and of course people need to buy Bitcoin so they can buy a counterparty token so they can go on a decentralized change and buy rare pay pay tokens to Excellent invest in rare pete is now Chris Ellis Hey, so this is actually not the Bitcoin chart. This is a chart of Microsoft stock price And I want you to just take that in because uh Microsoft has now gone back up to its previous high All the way back in its heyday of 2000 Back when Windows 2000 came out and windows nt if anyone was that lemon Of an operating system and one of the reasons i'm showing you this is because it's actually remarkably similar to Bitcoin's formation If we look at it on weekly going back over a long time and take off my stuff there So you see you have this like initial exponential rise is all the kind of the anticipation kicks in Then you have like that trough of the solution And there's everyone kind of like in denial at first and it's like oh yeah, they are just gonna go back up and oh no It doesn't and as you can see that we've basically come back up to the previous Level we were at before we were testing back in 2014 in that summer if you remember we went down to the low This was when Tom and I were on the chip in in DC Um all the way back then you you kind people were donating to to us that to get us there and the price went up to 600 and Some ordinary touching 700 We're basically back up at these these previous highs and if we go into the daily now You can see that after we initially toppled over Um at that high level we then a couple days later. Remember we had the finnex hack We plummeted again Essentially the bears got worn out. I think yes, absolutely Theo's right that the perception is is what's key here Is it doesn't really matter whether the one really is being devalue the the important thing is that people perceive it and especially with Stories like Brexit that are seems never seems to leave the news at the moment I think what it does is it puts the the state itself Into an existential threat and the more it tries to wriggle and rise and people tried to hold referenda and they assert their independence Scotland France they they're all you know have these kind of grassroots movements of populists That want to to make their countries great again in the words of some politician somewhere Businessman and as a result like the more they assert That independence and the domicility and their sovereignty. I think the more people find Bitcoin and attractive option And so they go to it and I think you know for other technical reasons I think we were just oversold we already kept testing these previous slows that we were at from before and this is called trader memory I used to be really skeptical of this and probably Theo is laughing in his in his mind right now remembering the days when I was like none of this means anything it's all just random and But then I educated myself and I realized that basically yeah, you know investors remember the previous highs This this used to be resistance here at 460 and then it turned into support And we almost tested it on the first round back in June this year And then we really really tested it the second time back in August And so oftentimes it's just about you know really squeezing out those longs and now we're squeezing out the shorts by going back up again I think it's fairly straightforward Excellent moving on to the exit question force prediction the price of Bitcoin next week is Gabriel divine Next week price prediction Uh next week at this time Friday October so that will be Friday November 7th Calling classic stalling Yeah Well I'm thinking you know seven days right now the price is about 680 What yeah, what is as the price we're moving during the show like last week 686 That's 684 Z coin is it 25 bit coin a share Uh, well the Z coin we already went through it's gonna be exactly what I said Um a week from now Bitcoin. I believe that it will continue its bullish trend and we're gonna see Above 700. I think we're gonna see seven Bit of the seven 18 in a week 718 tone Vays I'm gonna I'm gonna go down. I'm gonna go down to about 650 I mean, I don't I don't think we're gonna crash at all But uh and maybe while commented later on Gabriel, but I think it'll be a little tough to push through Uh seg with and people are gonna start to panic and uh people are gonna you know rage quit We'll only see some drops. I mean the blocks are pretty full right now. There's a big mempool I can definitely see a drop going back to 650 even 600 I don't think it'll be that easy Chris Ellis Oh, let's see. I think one Bitcoin will be worth One Bitcoin Ah steady a steady level of one Bitcoin for one Bitcoin and Dre is often predicted that as well. Theo good Uh, we're gonna see massive world uncertainty wiki leaks is gonna go off the hook We're gonna have all kinds of things going crazy. We're gonna massive devaluations and Pumping and dumping and the forex markets and Bitcoin's gonna end up at 777 and 77 cents The fear of the election will drive the price higher over 800. Let's go higher Issue three Google made it harder to do screen sharing you have to click like five things now Barclays says no to Bitcoin, but yes to blockchain Coin journal the fledgling cryptocurrency publication available at coinjournal.net Received an unpleasant surprise from Barclays bank who shut down their account after a Answer from circle made the bank believe that their business was Bitcoin related Barclays is however a public investor in r3 the banking cryptocurrency consortium However despite their blockchain interests Bitcoin seems to be a no-go Tones your thoughts on the bank account closure Um, it's Um, I don't understand why anyone wants to work with I mean Barclays isn't a us bank, but you have us companies Do you want to run a Bitcoin business you run a Bitcoin business business your business Think If not don't complain when this happens so I mean it's very frustrating because you know Barclays supposed to be the blocked world about blockchain technology But they're ignoring you know the only blockchain of any relevance ever and possibly going forward So I mean it's This at all I keep going through these blockchain conferences and I just listening to panels I was even at one last night and I'm listening to people around me I disagree with every single person on this panel. It was like an hour discussion about blockchains Nobody said the words proof of work Nobody In an hour discussion. It was like six panel members from the industry Nobody mentions the word proof of work anyway So I'm not surprised by this Um I did one of the point once full point I want to say on this is Um, I thought it was I was laughing when I read that going forward coin journal is not going to cover blockchain Take Uh, in order to get back at the bank which I actually thought was hilariously funny Uh, what coin journal should have been doing From day one is talking about how what the banks have been doing with blockchain Is stupid um, so they might be like all these publications that don't understand that the whole chain um was supposed to be Um, proof of work and they've Been covering it like based on what the banks definition of a blockchain is and um if that's how you've been doing it Good. I'm happy your account is blocked. Maybe you shouldn't be writing in the space And I know Ian de Martino has been on the show and we're kind of friends, but I'm very frustrated with all these publications Because no one is holding anybody accountable Theo Goodman Sorry, I was in the chat talking to our fans at the world crypto network. Thanks people in the chat Yeah, I think that uh just use another bank They're gonna do that kind of stuff. Yeah, they're in the blockchain or whatever, but it's kind of like this um, you know that there was Long time ago and it was before the internet and it was before people used the internet and Banks you just went there and you gave them cash and you sent it to people and then there's the internet and then there were internet companies and Met web pages, but If you got a transfer from a certain Website a company that has a website they might block your account, but they have a web page too Even though they're on the internet they blocked you so it's kind of a similar situation there Into blockchain, but they don't like bit cool when so they're just blocking you know one part of that Either the part that makes sense. So just gonna have to use another bank Too bad for them. They're gonna lose business They're not in the cool kids barclays. You're not the cool kids Gabriel, Steve I You know if I were barclays I Would shut down anything and everything that I had to do with Bitcoin the more that I could delay the inevitable Disintermediation and destruction of my middleman business model the more wealth like a draw off from the populace So things like this are expected my book. I'm a little surprised when banks Worked together with Bitcoin companies This is the example of the opposite so I'm not surprised at all and I expect many many more instances To come and I expect a more documented and institutionalized approach rather than the hand picked approach. I think there's gonna be maybe a sweeping Rule internal rule reform or contract reform effort on the part of the banks to completely Cut off Bitcoin companies Bitcoin services anything to do with Bitcoin Individuals also a massive lobbying effort to try to encourage regulators to Support their rent rent seeking further and with very small exceptions here and there Excellent points gave it really if you do think about it from barclays perspective What if they really lost here maybe $12 in checking fees 20 30 bucks if they go into overdraft it's not a very large account Chris now I just wanted to say now people have heard about it because they're watching world crypto networks So they're getting there's there's a PR a PR hit for barclays Chris do you think barclays will survive the PR hit of closing a coin journal account? I mean, I think I think the business model of banking is fundamentally broken and they're struggling really to to stay afloat If you think about the at the end-surprise really of government and and banks is they're very closely related I think politically I think politicians are going to find it very very difficult to keep bailing them out the only reason they had a they had Business model in the first place is because the state would come to the rescue if they were too too big to fail And so again, you know, you have another large institution That is facing an existential threat and I would look I you know I went I'm just doing a little Twitter search here whenever I've mentioned barclays on on Twitter in the past And remember that they sponsored the African Bitcoin conference They were all over South Africa. I saw barclays logos and signage all over Johannesburg when I was visiting there with ala canani And yes, this is this is the infamous and Anthony Macy who last I checked was still working at barclays and Look there are a bit coin related people working in the barclays offices Whether barclays are coconut that or not. I mean they had to kind of rebrand themselves as like barclays rise Because they were worried. I mean I got that from the horse's mouth I mean they told me themselves the barclays employees We're in a barclays office in London And when I asked them what was the difference between barclays and rise as they kept calling it They said well basically it's like a rebranding thing So we're really unpopular at the moment the press keeps slagging us off And so I said about the the project of putting my full notes on barclays Three Wi-Fi hotspots and you can see here in in action Here is a bit coin full node. I guess you guys can see that can you see a big So it's basically working off of the barclays Wi-Fi network over a tour Over tour. Do you see that? Yeah, only net equals tour and um So that was like back in the day anyway, and I kind of left that running in somebody's office And I just I've got it back some about to put segwit on there. We're going to talk about that later Um, but I've got the new version of the full note right here. It's I'm going to show you at the end. It's off the show Very good, and we're going to move on to the exit question exit question. It's all a mistake. They'll get their account back Let's see. Tony Vays. Yes or no It doesn't matter. I really don't think it matters I Sure, why not That's a PR hit for barclays, but they might just you know get annoyed at what at the hypocrisy that might be throwing at them So they'll give them their account back, you know, they'll prove that there are publication I know they'll but um They get it back if not maybe they'll go to Wells Fargo or somebody else But getting a bank account in the space is hard, but uh Yeah, they'll get it back, but I don't think it's a PR hit for barclays if they they don't care They're a global bank Bitcoin is nothing All right, we'll put it down for a yes Chris Ellis yes, who know they get their account back No, and they shouldn't try they should find a better banking partner like feed or someone Theo Goodman After the massive fallout of the youtube rumors going around about the bad business practices of barclays Suddenly get their account back and they all get free barclay hats kind of like mind it with the barclays logo Excellent Gabriel divine No, I don't think they will get their account back nor should they even try a group Chris on that But why do they what does coin journal even need a bank account? Can't you pay your writers and Bitcoin and pay for your hosting and game game Game they do pay their writers, but they they try to it's advertising revenue coming in They allow fiat and then they convert it to Bitcoin in order to pay their writers That's how they ended up in this mess. Okay. Got it. Yeah, that makes sense The problems always whenever the system touches fiat as much as I wish I could agree with Theo the answer is no They won't get their bank account back They probably won't ask for it. They probably don't care and yeah, certainly barclays won't care about this Moving on issue for bank in a box stash crypto released their first product this week the stash node pro a small server that claims to be a bank in a box The box features a one terabyte hard drive a Bitcoin full node and open transactions A new protocol that claims to offer anonymous transactions micro payments and even encrypted messages for the users of the stash node pro Will this technology rival the lightning network or will it be a flash in the pan? Chris Ellis Right, okay, where do I start? I mean God this thing is like okay the final verdicts Anyone was following it on Twitter where I was like you know just really laying into these guys Um because first of all Chris autumn who whom I actually kind of respect as a developer not so much for his Passes of pick-up artists, but that leaving that aside Um, I respect him as a developer and I had seen and heard of open transactions I refreshed my memory today. I had a look at the code does look quite cool But basically I saw a bunch of shields. I got a DM from this like You know bot account saying thanks for retweeting Stash, you know, and I'm like what the hell is going on here? So I'm I'm actually being incited They're inciting me to have a go at them because I'm getting Juno Manita who wherever the fuck that or whatever the fuck That is whoever's controlling it Is telling me that I need to be tweeting out and like you know Giving me this press release this press release which is by the way an absolute piece of shit And it's just full of like banking a box what like it's got a cool sensor I can call up if like I want to reverse the transaction on the blockchain They can just have a word with a couple of miners maybe work something out. I mean and so to me like Chris autumn like dude Like you you did the whole mystery method thing you did that whole chat up line You know how to do that you clearly didn't write this press release because if you did I would have been all over this $1,000 advice for open source code And I'm just like staggered because basically somebody then Found the very device that they're talking about on alibaba for $250 So the markup is something like 700 or so dollars right they're making $700 profit And you know, you know, there was some wrangling with Christoph at this I don't know what was going on like whether he was being paid. I know there's this website on bitcoin.com They mysteriously got this article on on bitcoin.com Roger Ver has set up this website called birds.bitcoin.com which is currently down I'm showing you an archive version of it and Basically you get paid To to tweet things you see here in millivits per 100 followers Except it wasn't actually paying people and there was some some teething problems with it He told me private that he was going to get that sorted So I'm not sure what I trust on the internet anymore. I don't know I you know, I like Christoph a lot. I respect him a lot But the way he was defending what seemed to be an indefensible You know bunch of claims. I mean just just the I mean where did you want to just pick a random paragraph? And we can just like you know Just pick something out from this bullshit Open transactions. There's a financial system based on cryptographic proofs It enables cost advantage eliminating services like that from fraud and it's like yeah, but for a thousand bucks But then what happened was you know, I went on the video last night with Chris Hotton He started out with a kind of half truth He said that this was the only full note that he was aware of the thought existed Obviously, he is not the first person to release a full note Even I wasn't with this device, which was very well publicized I think we got in every publication in the industry So either guys, you know, been living like an ostrich who he's just completely naive And never mind bitsy either bitsy.org and never mind the 21 computer which is a Bitcoin minor Which presumably has the blockchain on it otherwise how is it mining maybe by the pool But that would be kind of silly if they did that Um, but eventually what it boiled down to I rewatched the video from last night in Chris Hotton It's basically a $1,000 computer which you can buy from Ali Barb up to $250 with three open source software free licensing and I'm failing to see the value proposition then at the last minute Chris said But this isn't like the product I would have put out and so now I've realized something Chris is actually the smart guy here Whoever's running his PR campaign wherever the CEO is that's the one fucking up Because what they should have done at the outset is they should have said this is an enterprise Device we are aiming this at merchants who don't want to have to set up demons and you know running stuff on servers NAWS and and bothering their IT department with that We want a turnkey solution We want something that we can just plug and play and then we've got a Bitcoin wallet because it is genuinely cool I open transactions is genuinely cool They're using a bit 47 I think which is the private transactions and that's also very cool Samurai wallet if you haven't used it already was the first implementation of it You should definitely go ahead and use it. It's basically dark wallet as it was meant to be but this time finally implemented So the long show of it is I do like the device. I like I genuinely like the idea But if anybody out there just wants to send me one Bitcoin I will literally just rebuild it and sell it for $500 because I think that is because what I'll do is I'll just go to the Alibaba website. I'll just I'll just get it. I know the code I found the code on that GitHub. I'll just download it and store it release a disk image and you all can just like get it a much cheaper price So send me a Bitcoin I'll reverse engineer it. I'll open source it and then they'll be forced to load the price I think this is similar to the the 21 machine when it came out everyone freaked out because it wasn't a good value for a miner But if you're a developer and you don't want to spend a bunch of your time setting things up You just want to buy a box and start writing code that 21 machine might be useful in the same way I think what Christos trying to say is he's excited about open transactions people want to try this out for a while If they can buy a box and try it out and agreed for people on a fixed income with $1,000 a lot of money But for developers that make a very good income putting it out of $1,000 to avoid installing things to avoid looking at screens I mean that's you pay for Conveying it Not $700. I just think it's an interesting way to test out open trend No dude you don't you don't pay $700 for convenience No, I am not people people's for hundreds of that hundreds of dollars on bar bills I do have no idea there's a lot of waste GitHub.com forward slash open transactions. They've got Linux hardened on there It's even got like how to install it like this the thing is just like the OS 10 version But I can literally teach a seven-year-old how to do pseudo apt get in Linux In fact, I know I can because I have I have sort of set a seven-year-old how to do pseudo apt get in Linux It's super fun and I think that's a good time to mention Way to go all the good luck on your kung fu grading tomorrow. He's going in for the black belt. Let's go all So good luck, Oliman. You're luck. See there's good things out there And yeah, I mean it's expensive Chris, but let's just let's move on to talk more about open transactions Theo, do you have any thoughts on the stash node pro and open transactions? Sure. Well, it's it's called stash So can you hide any drugs in it or something? I mean, what is this like it does it have like a secret compartment Maybe that's a good use then you know, it looks like a computer and it has like a secret You have to kind of press certain parts of the box and then something pops up a secret compartment That would be pretty cool. Then it would be a real stash You know, maybe like it's part of the use of the graphic door your front on there and then your user remote wallet So it is like a stash. I mean, yeah, or like it cryptographically does something you put your hand on it And it's only your hand and then the secret compartment pops open or something like that that would be a real stash You know, so first of all the name is incorrect Need if it's gonna be a stash and I got to be able to hide something in it So they got to think about that. It's a cool. I like that You know, it's a one word name. It does have confidential transactions. So technically you can hide stuff in it Yeah, that's cool. I like that Maybe I would I think that in the next version it should have a self-destruction things so I can Destroy the hardware of it or something or I don't know something like really weird because like you said It doesn't I'm trying to figure out what's like you said what is the value proposition? What's the greatest Part of it. It's it's a cool object now if it was more collectible like with these like limited edition serial numbers and Artographed by the dev or you know, you can get like cool colors It kind of reminds me of buying a game console Full of flash games that you can play online But they're all in one console and that actually even exists and people even buy those there's like these little things you attach them There are a lot cheaper. They don't cost seven hundred bucks But still they do exist because it's just kind of fun to be able to have the physical object in your hand So I get that part of it, but it's not collectible and needs to be more like a beanie baby and Then it will be okay. You know, that's you know, look why haven't said I mean we all need to declare our interest And obviously when we're working for someone we need to say like I'm working for them And that's my you know declared interest But this is that this is what that was right. This was a beanie baby essentially you were buying each one I signed that the CPU serial number for you you got a collectible edition It's a learning device right and I think we're 21 fucked up because 21 originally got their right here from the tab below on on on Twitter And I sort of as an adjunct kind of came up with the idea sort of independently and then he reached out to me And then this other guy from Mexico Bitcoin full node on Twitter reached out to me said, oh, yeah, I'm building an operating system You know too, but all of our focus was on education 21 came along and basically trebled the price or me even you know Quadriple the price of what we were offering especially Bitcoin full node guy He was offering his operating system for free basically to the end users He was charging them altcoins money to put their Implementation on his device which is very clever marketing scheme because then people gets take that off if they didn't Didn't want to use it So he was monetizing it that way and I think it's a little bit dishonest for people to sort of you know Jump on these bandwagon's a hardworking open source developers like us and then like mark it up you know 100% or like a thousand percent or whatever like it what they should have done It's that should have done at the beginning. You just said this is for end-surprise great users This is not for hobbyists, but they didn't do that. They went with the whole bank in the box bullshit and they need higher a better marketing team It's also tough with the aetherium thing going on A lot of the hobbyists do have money to spend on this kind of thing Chris Remember when the remember the LTRK Who gave you a prediction they won't sell more than the amount that they offered 21 I think the first 21 you can buy for a Bitcoin So if you want to buy me one get one quick, but I don't think now sell many more after that. I think that'll be it All right Gabriel divine your thoughts Yeah, this is an interesting subject. Definitely ruffling a couple of feathers over here. You know um I got a Call out Chris a little bit on this I believe you mentioned at some point when you were making your full nodes that you were paying yourself Three British pounds an hour Dollars yes, okay, three us dollars an hour um, you know that is a martyr Rate it's below the poverty level in our countries and it one can't expect people to do that you are doing it out of a visionary um Reason in order to increase the the the um The robustness of an ecosystem that you believe in and that's admirable, but I don't think it's realistic and I Don't think it was sorry no hang on. That's not factually correct There was there was a 15 then markup on the devices and the rest of the money went to pro tip Okay, yeah, so you're taking like nearly nothing for yourself for your labor You're a skilled person who is able to do Installs on these nodes and remind me how long it takes to do an install 30 minutes 45 I once I don't like initial one which takes many days to get right and everything has to be perfect once the disk images done It takes about six hours once the testing is finished Um, but sick of how much actual labor and then I can do three concurrently So there's a little bit of maths you know, but it doesn't come six hours of labor to do three how much actual You know, because I can just leave it testing yeah, yeah, but six hours end to end in terms of like putting the memory stick in Have you know boosting up running the tests signing the signature putting in the box and shipping Okay, okay. Oh well shipping. Yeah, yeah, um, so You got to look at you know the market for this um stash pro stash crypto pro um, you know, they've got a cto Who's time or they've got a it's contracted dev Who's uh, you know time cost them say a hundred bucks an hour Um, and if it takes you know, you're guy to make an implementation that hasn't been tested as well as a professional product You know, if if they're looking at a guy spending you know six Probably 20 hours maybe to make their own Special know that has the abilities that they're looking at maybe more that's two grand three grand four grand So in that sense, you know, they are undercutting the price of creating this thing and you know You've definitely done a rock bottom price razor thin margin that you know, it has it's not great for your lifestyle You know, it doesn't help your lifestyle So remember the pro the excess profits went to pro tip the pro tip is still working It has been bug free since week one like we had initial bugs because of better blockchain. info went down But after that it pro tip has worked flawlessly for 500 users That money had to be spent on ongoing development cost so I read over to the fund so there was a 20 or 15-ish Percent markup once you take off the postage, which was included Um, there was you know that profit was there. I just chose to offset to the organization pro tip so that I could keep the up running And so there wasn't no there was no funny business now all I'm saying is like oh yeah No, if you're gonna market something yeah get your audience right They clearly want enterprise levels, so it's a red hat model where there's gonna be some consultancy But don't don't say it's worth a thousand dollars because you know we stuck a logo on it Right, it's worth a thousand dollars because it comes with an SLA it comes with some you know You know integration or something, but they didn't if they would have said look if they'd have said if they come to me now It's like a somebody to advise them. I would tell you for free right now on this show Tell everyone how hard you've already worked making open transactions open source and then tell them the reason the prices is such Is to help you recover the cost to keep that good work on going because essentially what they did was they gave us Lightning network before lightning network. I think that's fucking cool. That's so some That all got lost because not a single person apart from Christoph Atlas and some other shill's and stuff Just trying to defend this thing It all got lost in that because all anyone could do is success over the price and the literature in the marketing So I would I would encourage them to reboot Rebrand get rid of whoever was right in that press release in the CEO and just Tell everyone how hard you've worked to get get it to this level and why that price is justified I agree with that and I just want to clarify that I was It was quite the opposite. I was not trying to call out any funny business on your part It's quite the opposite. You were making a sacrifice And even if you had decided to keep that small profit margin for yourself You know you made a very big personal sacrifice my point is you can't nobody can expect Companies to make that type of personal sacrifice. It's not I don't think that's a reasonable bar so In the sense that they're looking to recover some of the labor that they put into creating this device and to creating their open source platforms I think it's quite reasonable that they would want to have a high profit margin But your point about the marketing is really dead on that this is a field in a Quickly changing world and an extremely quickly changing tech ecosystem crypto is Very different from other business businesses business models and it's it's on the forefront It's on the cutting edge of societal trends and this Very rapid trend toward transparency sometimes forced through leaks But you know if you're doing it well like yourself Then you're offering that transparency to the public in order to induce trust through facts And this is something that Chris Odom I think maybe hasn't quite gotten onto He's a newcomer maybe to the crypto business world and he's like okay. Well, I'm a tech company So I'm just gonna get a CMO and they're gonna write our press release and They didn't quite think through that this is a different times this is a different audience is a different You know subculture in The economy and in in our society in tech and it's important to shift your message You know, I think purse is good at doing this. I think that you know 21 is is good at doing this 21 for example marketed toward developers and their product is a very developer friendly Thing that you might diss it for some some reasons, but it is definitely you know marketed toward developers and it is a developer product And by the same token I completely agree with you that just calling it pro wasn't enough They needed to make more clear that this is genuinely for pros if you're if you are holding less than a 20 30 Grand worth of Bitcoin you probably don't need this thing But if you're a company that's pushing Bitcoin in and out you want to make simple smart contracts for your payment systems You want to have messaging along with your payments and you said be your being your own bank. Well it does have messaging protocols So at least it's it's performing a minimum of you know some of the things that banks do you know These things are so useful and I'd like to give a shout out to Daniel Kraywitz who's written some excellent propaganda pro Bitcoin Propaganda over the years and I believe he came on board with stash To create this and as a developer Helping to create these products. I'm sure it's a good product and like you. I'm very very interested in the open transactions Open source platform. I mean I was really confused as to what the heck it was a couple years ago and as time has gone on I'm like, okay, these are cryptographic Tools that can be used with a variety of different protocols different things. I don't necessarily agree that Open transactions doesn't need Bitcoin for example or doesn't need some other asset that is backed by some sort of resource or work but That doesn't take anything away from the power that it brings and this is something that um companies that want to spend and earn Bitcoin in and out you know Accounts payable accounts receivable that ecosystem is still very immature and open transactions is a huge Out across the bow to say hey we can do this we can do it better We can do it more anonymously We can do it more securely than everybody else and we can do it cheaper because it doesn't even require a person So um, I think he was trying to tell tell you guys that on the interview and I think that was really cool How you were pretty easy on Chris because you realized what was actually going on was that this was a messaging issue And not a tech issue or a business issue with them. So correct Yeah, many properties you guys for that. This is just a you know initial product They're trying to get out there maybe get a little cash in the door encourage their investors or whatever and get a little momentum and For the next few products and like I said to vortex when I when he sent me the link is that when I saw it I was like that is really cool and then I was like whoa that's a price tag for a sticker shop But um that is it seems like a very very cool box. It's kind of a no-brenner if you're running the serious crypto company holding a few hundred or a few thousand Bitcoin boy you better you probably want to have a few of these in your office or in your least one or two To you know handle some of this to some of this work and you know get your get your CTO you know to To get your monetary engine flowing smoothly with all these incredible advances in in crypto and in Using crypto on a day-to-day basis for profit and for businesses. I think it's a really great step forward I Tone vase All right, I'm gonna make this very very short Uh, well one of the the main reason is this Topic is completely outside my area of expertise, right? I've never owned a full node. I don't know what I have and I I know what a full-node Bitcoin full-node is but As the regular person I don't see any need for this because I'm not a developer Uh the one question I have is what Thomas was saying well if you're a developer you want to buy this thing and go Well if you're a developer shouldn't it be easy for you to download a bunch of open source software and put it on a $250 box like Chris says right? So if you are a developer it should be easy for you to kind of put this thing to yourself No, but again another developer. I don't know Gabriel made really good points I can actually add to that on the entire concept of a corporate structure which Chris doesn't have in building his own That he's been doing that as an additional layer of cost that they're probably trying to recuperate and Besides all of the actual hands on stuff. If you have a corporate structure, let me check out lawyers You have additional fees on so these costs do add up and I'm a small business owner myself So I kind of know at the insanity of cost and regulations and how they add up. So other than that um I I personally don't think I have a need for it The one other thing when I read the article where are the article? I just want to read one sentence it says The team plans to imp the team plans on implementing more protocols on the stash financial infrastructure Innovations coming soon include includes Trustless coin mixing multi signature technology cold storage application SMS integration multi currency support payments through SMS texting and much more that just seems like an insane list of claims to me And when I read things like this I become very very very skeptical I mean this is the kind of stuff you read in like infomercials and like Paycoin is gonna bring you all of this and I see it is gonna bring you all of this So I mean the I'm sure they got this from their press release It just like sounds and the price tag is not even in there like I read the whole article. I didn't know it was a thousand So you guys said it and Of claims is just just doesn't sound good at all. It just sounds way unbelievable to me and on I'm not sure where the need for this is. I'm also not a fan of black boxes Which is why I have never owned an iPhone in my life and I still get very pissed when I buy an Android phone I can't even remove the battery Like I'm not even a developer and I like I like having some control like a So I don't have anything else to add. I don't really don't have anything technical to add on this issue I have coded a little bit in the past. I just they're just not my area of expertise But I'm not no guys. I actually have to go Latefoot dinner as it is. I know it's been a long episode. I will miss Prediction and story of the week Maybe I can make it real quick Thomas if that's where you go next We're pretty much going there. We're gonna do the exit question just would you rather get a 21 computer stash node pro or a bitcoin full node So Theo Goodman, which would you like? I'll have a bit coin full node. Thank you Gabriel divine I will take the same. Thank you very much Tony said which would you like? I I don't know. I don't know what I would use any of them for um I Supporting the network I'll pass Chris Alice probably like a bit coin full node right No, I want somebody to buy me one of these. You can just go to Ali bar Ali Express.com buy it for $250 or if you're kind enough Just take the very same box and pay one bit coin for it on the stash node.com website send it to me I'll reverse engineer and I'll do my best to open source it and it will force them to capitulate on the price Yeah, I think we're looking at sub two hundred dollars for these relatively soon and which I'm Not not sub two hundred dollars because like even if I do agree to make this an open source it obviously I'm not gonna be addicted these people like I'll give them some money for it because I think they deserve it I'm just like I'm so tired of this like pump and dump mentality of like hype and banking the box stuff So I'm gonna I'm gonna surprise the Chris actually producing hardware here. It's not exactly a pump and dump The beauty of the pump and dump is you don't have to actually make anything like actually shipping something makes Yeah, but for four times the price is a little bit pump. No, that's just called business I mean I tried to explain it to you like with the you know all it takes a structure and you have to hire all these people But no everything you buy is marked up an incredible amount you don't want to know It's the twenty percent is the average on the on the foot c100 here in the UK I imagine it's not too dissimilar in the S&P and America What's the 20% markup on on that hardware Chris Semmila Once you take it everyone salaries in all right, let's let's go to tone for a prediction or story Um and right before that I don't push back on Chris also a little bit Um, now you you're saying that the box is 250, but you're also asking for one Bitcoin So uh, which is almost seven hundred dollar Okay, people are choice they could either buy me that one or buy me the official one. I'll reverse engineer Well, how much is the official one? One Bitcoin at a moment and so they sell out the Not paying Chris paying paying stash Yeah, you're paying stash for you to sending it to me Oh, so so okay, so stash is selling them originally for one Bitcoin That's for yeah first 21 Even less the first 21 units and after that they go to a thousand, but the blank box itself can be bought for $250 to 15 okay, so you were talking about just one of those original ones. Yeah Oh, okay, so you're You're gonna be booked at any case I want to take it apart Right because otherwise if if you were going to be charging people one Bitcoin for it They're not really you know selling them at 4x. They're selling them more like you know 1.3x not for no my idea was just make it Make it make it make a disc image to show people how to build on themselves and and it gives other people I mean sooner or later someone's gonna see it like if this that if they prove a market exists Someone's just gonna come along and send for half price and These but again, yeah, well like I said this is the this is like yeah, all right. Well. This is not my area of expertise I leave it for you guys. I just got a little confused about my See all right, so my um, I guess I'll go with prediction I mean the story of the week is the is the insanity of z cash On that may not be beat for maybe a month. So I'm sure something stupid will come along I can't picture it right now. I can't think of anything that would be done more than this But I'm sure somebody is already implementing something worse than this But um, so my prediction is actually not a very unfortunate one I think like I mentioned it briefly earlier. I just want to say a few more sentences I think pushing seg with through is going to be kind of difficult. I think it's going to be very hard to get 95% of consensus for anything And that's a problem. I there are hardcore, you know To prevent this Not just via btc, but there'll be others like given like z cash supporters and monaril supporters that may be running bitcoin No, I mean they don't want to see bitcoins succeed because they think their coin is better than bitcoin So I think by default There are going to be like people that just don't care to update which Off to where they're running So I think it's going to be hard getting to 95% I think the way that eventually seg with is going to have to go through because otherwise We got a huge problem I think the blockchain team will try to get bitcoin will try to get seg with in without the 95% consensus as long as there is less than 5% I meant People running another competing version of the software if that makes sense like as long as there's more than 5% hash power on bitcoin unlimited Um, I think the hands are tied to get seg with it But as long as but if the support for bitcoin unlimited and all the other alternatives Um is less than 5% combined Uh, then I don't really think they even need 95% Uh, one thing to run seg with as long as there's less than 5% that don't not want to run seg with Uh, so I'm hoping they also see it that way or we might stagnate going forward with no changes Excellent thanks for being on the show of time and mr Chris I got some prediction or a story of the week Okay, so um, I am currently Just finishing up This is the new prototype for Possibly possibly the next iteration of the full node. This is a next stock NEX D-O-C-K Um, they are a company that I took part in that indiegogo crowd fund Back in June they had some teaving problems so they've been a little bit delayed Um, but I basically got the slap top it only cost me I think $99 plus shipping, but obviously the units retail for for more than that if you actually have to buy them Um One unit at the time. So what I'm going to do is just uh go to Uh, I should adjust to the screen. So the latest version of bitcoin is running I've got seg with enabled. I've also enabled pruning if I just tilt it to a side here can you see that little bit better? Yeah So I've got um seg with enabled. I've got um Pruning and so I'm just testing the pruning at the moment is said at the minimum level which is 550 megabytes And if you don't know what that means it means that it will only retain a Maximum of about 550 megabytes of block data Which is really useful if you only got a small hard drive a lot of people have criticized that feature In the bitcoin config file because they've said well, you know, what about you know That's not real full node anymore. It's like a half node But you are still relaying transactions across the network you're protecting bitcoin against DDoSes like Ethereum has come under and the more distributed the network Better and remember that education is a decentralizing force So a lot of the impetus behind this project which by the way, but nothing is running from the slap The all this laptop is is a screen a keyboard a trackpad and a ten-amp battery which lasts forever And it's actually the raspberry pie That's running it. That's the brains of the machine And so it's a raspberry pie three connects to the the keyboard and the trackpad by bluetooth and then just gets its power from the massive ten-amp battery Which lasts for like 12 hours on this thing and it's just an HDMI cable and that's it so I don't know I'm gonna have to really put this laptop through its paces It is branded as a cheap laptop. It's about $99 if you buy it quantity I will need to speak to that to the company to confirm it But if if it doesn't break in the first month that's usually my test I'm gonna throw it around in my rucksack. I'm gonna put it through its paces You know, I'm up for this now obviously that's not gonna be a hundred Hundred pounds per per device. I'm gonna have to charge more because it comes with the screen and the keyboard But it won't be ten times the price of cost or it will be a reasonable rate And so yeah, you know, it's just about building on the stuff and I am I am trying to get money I'm still you know with my health like I'm still on the And you know the old medication in order to be able to do this but I am trying to solicit money I want 50,000 pounds. I'm not kidding. I want 50,000 pounds give it to me now Because frankly, I think I deserve it. I delivered what five crowd funds now since we first started including the DC one that that Tom pretty much did for me But let's just say it was me and um, you know I've successfully delivered on time on budget for all of them I'm surrounded by all these people that keep getting all this free money and it's doing my head in somebody give me 50 grand 50 grand seriously Let me do this and let me ship this out to like Botswana and I've got somebody as well Guy called Tony shots in the York Big Shoutout to you Tony Dr Anthony Shultz to giving his full title Who's a physicist and we're gonna be rocking together with a full node trying to get different schools to connect to each other Using the peer-to-peer technology ipfs zero full out is also on the full node latest version of ipfs So I really want to you know push this forward so Give me the money now please Maybe someone got rich on zcash today. They could yeah You know, they you know, maybe he got rich on a theory him you bet against us Maybe got rich on the dow or the pump or the dump or the shorting or the Was it called leverage you got to use leverage? Let's go to theo goodman with a prediction or a story of the week. I'll use my leverage to make you answer Yeah, leverage is quite a tool. That's that's true. I was gonna go with prediction that the rare pay pay telegram channel breaks 400 members currently we're at 300 and one and if you head over to to Not me slash rare pay pay trader group then you can enter the world of rare pay pay blockchain technology trading where we are pushing the decentralized exchange To the limit and you are witnessing the blockchain revolution live in the flesh check it out be the 400th member The flesh is green. Let's go to Gabriel divine All right, I'm gonna have a story of the week. I'm gonna bring things back to The Bitcoin release version 0.13.1 highly awaited release of The segregated witness transaction malleability fix Along with a Effective block size increase coming with the segregated witness if It reaches the activation threshold among the mining hash power of 95% starting The block after November 15th, which I assume is going to be around the end of November Uh The release has a few other things in it too, but this is the really big piece that we've all been waiting for the transaction malleability bug Is due to A longstanding issue with Bitcoin that's existed since the beginning as far as I'm aware Where um, you know, there's a problem I don't even barely know how to explain it. There's a problem with Getting your zero if your if your transaction hasn't been confirmed yet then it can get overwritten really easily something like that so basically That what this does is create some sort of system. I don't even it's so technical. It's a little above my head But basically this transaction malleability bug has been preventing a huge amount of innovation Built on top of Bitcoin. There's a lot of companies a lot of devs a lot of projects that have been waiting For a fix to transaction malleability because it crushes their dreams of creating cool off-chain transaction payment channels and Goodness knows what else is actually blocked by this nasty bug So this is a trend of fantastic thing if it gets activated and it's you know a little bit contentious right now via btc mining pool Currently it last I checked was about 9% so if they can keep up that Uh, hash power another month Until that point then maybe they can block its activation But it'll keep trying to activate it for I believe a year So uh, they're gonna have to keep up that hash power for that long. I have a feeling. They're not I'm gonna make it a single Uh block uh, excuse me a single difficulty period. Not that it's not the it's not the block after November 15 It's the next it's the difficulty period I think so it's it's it's about a 14-day window and I have a feeling That the other mining pools that are pro segregated witness have been saving Hash power online and then maybe they took it offline before so that they could play stealth and just throw it all online Uh on the 15th and that maybe is one of the reasons why we had a difficulty decrease and a little hash rate slight drop uh, we could go Or whenever that went over the last difficulty adjustment was so um, this is a huge huge landmark for bitcoin in fact this 131 release is Well, I guess it's activation will be the sort of jumping off point. I see it as kind of a as like a springboard for Bitcoins rise it's it's gonna enable so much stuff including the famous lightning network that allows not only micro transactions but also instant transactions that are fully backed cheaper faster smaller if needed or large if needed so it's uh, it's an extremely extremely important landmark in bitcoin I just want to point that out also a little shout out to a bunch of our chat people of course Yanina Ruma not to mention a new guest I haven't seen before terrific gentleman by the name of Chuck Gaffert and of course the ever esteemed achan and lastly but not loosely guessed it there oh and of course What's this face gdog? I don't know who this guy gdog is but he's on the money Very good stuff and maybe it won't just be a springboard. Maybe it'll be a rocket ship But my story of the week is the british tv show that's on netflix. It's called black mirror And I'd read an article about this show a little while ago and I had never got around to watching it But the third season was just released so I went back and watched the first two seasons There's only three episodes of the first season maybe four in the second and it is the twilight zone reborn They take something like a little piece of technology like I'm not gonna try not to spoil it but I just watched one where you meet somebody and you can rate them Five stars four stars. Oh, you were nice to me you weren't nice to me Just that alone and they blow that idea out of proportion They have the eyeballs that can take cameras and the memory chip that can remember your whole life And of course that gets blown out of proportion just everything at the end of the at the end of the show you feel dirty You're like wow a technology is really awful like all of these things could trap us in horrible realities of One of them the guy's in a box and it's playing television And if you close your eyes or close your ears you try to block out the television It plays a high-pitched squeal until you move your hands back You have to pay to get the ads to go and if you don't have money You can't pay and the ads just keep playing And these horrible nightmares are all given to us now thanks to black mirror on netflix So that's actually a classic show here We've hope that was like five years ago now And a strip by a guy called Charlie Brooker who's just an amazing comedian Um, and it's like a black comedy he really is the George Orwell of our time I don't know if you've got the episode yet Where they basically if you've committed a crime you get your memory wipes And then you don't know where you are anything you all you know is that people are going around like haunting you Taking pictures of you filming you everywhere you go and then you get like tortured for a crime You can't remember committing and then at the end of the torture They tell you why they're doing it to you because you did something horrendous to somebody There's that's been it there's been a multitude of like eternal torture things like They took this little part of a person out and they made a copy of the person And then they said okay now you're in a box And they can control the time for that artificial person And so the the artificial person just almost loses its mind almost immediately like and this is And what yeah, I want screws to you up though is that all of this is possible That's what screw that's what Charlie's trying to say there with that TV show is that like the one with the prime minister Where they he says he's going to take the princess of England You know and he's going to make her you know going to torture unless the prime minister has sex with a pig on YouTube And he's got to do and you know, I think just like this actually is possible like this is totally Consuming what can be done right now with all the technology we have that's what wants you so much throughout all of this Well, you're watching and it's not just about like destroying the person anymore like cutting off their head or whatever It's about embarrassing them so badly and embarrassing the government Embarrassing the people you think that it might be a terrorist act You don't know what's going on as you watch the show, but you know you let it develop But yeah, it's just great show absolutely dynamite so I just been enjoying that this week the third seasons out now It's on Netflix everyone should check it out Just a quick check in with Z cash I was watching it and went to 18 now. It's back to 22 I don't know. I've just never seen something move so many bitcoins so fast Obviously, I don't have any I don't know how to get any I'm not mining any But boy what a fascinating story what a great week Thanks for the 130 viewers that joined us. That's really great if you guys want to subscribe below To the world crypto network. We do other shows like this. We chat about Bitcoin or Ethereum We have some interviews and stuff. We're also on Twitter at world crypto network I'm at mad bitcoins if you want to subscribe to me I'm gonna go read the chat so be sure to put all your good comments in there And I think we're running so until next time bye