The Bitcoin Group, the American original. For over the last 10 seconds, this sharpest citotis, the best bitcoins, the hardest cryptocurrency talk. We'd like to welcome our panelists, Theo Goodman from Hath online. Hey everyone. Tom Bees from Brave New Coin. I'm Neil Muted. Hey everyone. I am back in the US, but at Upstate New York and Lake George want to give a shout out to the Inn on the Hill where I am streaming this from right now. Very cool. And I'm Thomas Hunt from the World Crypto Network. Moving on to issue one. Issue one. Steam. Steam, a digital currency, powering a social network, soared in value more than 1000% in the last two weeks, and then was hacked for $85,000. Steam uses a social media website to pay their users in Steam to reward them for posting. The hack compromise more than 260 accounts with $85,000 in Steam, stolen. The company will be covering the losses for the user. Theo's the stream approach with that of yours network, an open source competitor that uses Bitcoin, your website, Habits Home, cryptocurrency. Also, bonus report on Steam. Just this morning as we were about to broadcast the show, Steam went offline after someone posted a video where he was giving people unlimited steam, hashtag another exploit. Theo, you're ahead, Theo. All right. Well, on that last one, I'm going to have to investigate it. But I wouldn't be surprised if someone wrote an article on Steam about how to get unlimited steam so that people steam him up and steam his article so that they get more steam, because that's how it works. But nonetheless, I like everything about Steam as far as how it works, except, yeah, maybe you don't need to make your own currency, like you asked if every website should have its own currency, probably not. I mean, a lot of websites have things like, for example, Reddit has Reddit Gold and Link Karma. I mean, they're not really currencies per se. You can give people Reddit Gold and Karma, but you can't really get it out of the website. So, as far as Steam, you can, and you could trade it for other cryptocurrencies, etc. on exchanges. So, I don't think you need it. And I think that, I don't think you have to have a currency for every website that could use Bitcoin like yours network. And I guess Steam is open source, so someone could fork it and just do it with Bitcoin if they thought that would take off. But at this point, with the hacks and everything, which I guess is more to do with the security practices of the company rather than the code itself, I don't know if people are going to trust it enough to use it for another project. But I do like the idea of Steam, and I think we're going to see more experiments with that kind of style. Tony Vaze. All right, back off mute. Okay, so again, just like, so I just found out about Steam earlier this week. It's crazy how we were going to bring it up on a topic and then they get banned. What is it that you found out after it went up a thousand percent? We've got to find out before next time. Yeah, no, of course, I found out about it after it went up a thousand percent. And then we're going to put it on the show and then it gets hacked and then our show is not wearing today and it has more issues. So I actually just want to read an email. Right Saturday, so like four days ago, I get an email from MarketWatch that wanted me, that wanted to quote me on Steam, and it just said, Steam. And I replied to MarketWatch the following. I am not. My default answer to most projects is that it's a combination of scam and dumb idea and look into it later if you really need me to comment. Then I get a reply back saying, yeah, if you want to get comment, so then I took a look at it and this was my reply. This is before the hack, by the way. This is exactly where I wrote back to MarketWatch. I see nothing written about it in Brave New Coin, CoinDesk or CoinTelegraph. I just looked it up and it's beyond dumb. I do not know why it has value. I have one more paragraph on it. It just goes to show you you stick the words new crypto and speculators just come running. All they did was create a blog site and decided to pay in their own made up currency, which unlike reward points is actually illegal. And that was the part that Theo was saying about Reddit. Because Reddit is like reward points. When you pay with reward points, stick with the person, paste, equate, but most places pay in legal tender. Bitcoin has found a new way to pay people, but Bitcoin is actually decentralized and secure. Something like Steam is complete garbage. And since the creator is known, he will either end up scamming the users or get it for creating a currency. So that is all my statements to MarketWatch, pre-hack. So basically that's exactly what they did. There is no security there. There is nothing crypto about this thing. They basically created their own currency that people can trade. And it immediately got speculative value because people just like the gamble. Of course this is illegal. And if the regulators at any point in the next 20 years want to arrest the creator of Steam, they will be within that legal standing to do so. And this is because it's a security. You can just go ahead and you can trade it. Of course it's immediately hacked because it's on secure. They're creating it out of thin air. It's basically a way for these guys to become rich at the moment they create a new site. There is no innovation here. There is nothing new here. Again, I don't speculate on these things. Some people become rich, good for them. But I think I mentioned it to somebody else in a Twitter. I remember when Aurora Coin became $100 per coin. It was number three on CoinMarketCap, this is behind Bitcoin and then Ripple or Litecoin I don't remember. It was up there, two and three as well. Back when Litecoin was actually had value and back when Ripple had value, Aurora Coin crushed them all with the valuation of $100 per Aurora coin. So until I see another crypto, break Aurora Coin, I am going to assume that it will end like Aurora Coin. People need to understand that Ethereum is the exception. That's not the norm. Everyone is now following Ethereum. After Bitcoin, every single Altcoin has failed or has failing, Ethereum has prolonged the trend of imitation of success, longed it a little bit longer. So now everyone is trying to imitate Ethereum. But just like everything else, I don't expect Ethereum to survive very, very long. And now people are trying to imitate Ethereum and they're all going to fail fairly quickly. I mean, look at the steam disaster. We didn't even have time to talk about it to predict what a disaster is going to be and it already happened in three days between us wanting to talk about it and us actually talking about it. I'll leave it on that note. I'm sure you have something else to say of your own Thomas. Go for it. I think it would be interesting to contrast this with one coin. Now, I don't know very much about one coin, but I recently watched a video from the Bitcoin Uncensored Guide, Guys, Jonsoth and Krista Rose. And basically they go to a sales seminar in Coral Gables, Florida. There's a lot of that looking retired people there, investing type people. And they're given a speech about this one coin. Now, I don't know anything about one coin. But in the background of the guy's speech, you can see a clear diagram of what looks to be a pyramid chart, right? A person at the top, two below him, two below him, the classic multi-level marketing structure that they're using to promote this one coin. And the guy says very assuredly that we're going to double by Christmas and that you're going to think this is a good investment. He even says, and I quote, I know it in my knower. I know it in my knower that this is a great investment. He talks about how they're savvy and they're going to get creative with your stagnant IRA funds. So it's very unfortunate that while on one side we have Bitcoin, which is legitimate, and interesting, and innovative, and Ethereum, which seems to be exploring new worlds of smart contracts and other all coins such, you know, Dark Coin, Dash Coin, all these things that are trying to, Monero or Zcash, trying to do anonymity, trying to do new features, you know, having a test net kind of having a pre-mind questionable things here and there, but they're actually trying things and then you have just straight up scams like one coin. So I just, I don't know. You know it in your knower, Thomas? If anyone wants me to do creative things with their IRA stagnant IRA funds, just hit me up at the OG double underscore, I'll get creative with your stagnant IRA funds and I know it in my knower. That was the thing watching that video. It was like, don't just invest money that you have, invest your life savings, invest your retirement. I know this is such a good idea. It's kind of a, I think that one coin is a whole another thing than steam. I mean, yeah, you could, you know, like you said, they were just kind of giving, they are just giving steam out from a central wallet or whatever. So, you know, it's centralized, but you know, the thing is steam unlike Ethereum or some other project steam didn't have a pre sale as far as I know or not one that was really pumped up. So at least it was, you know, okay, you guys make content. I do think the company doesn't accompany steam own all the steam. I think so. I think so, but what happened, but what I would, what I did want to point out is one reason it was a success is that you have that pump cycle where the price goes up. So people want to post more content there and then people post more content there and then the price goes up. So that's what you had at this kind of because you could kind of, or because you still can, I guess, kind of game it in a way to get your content pumped up, then every not only did the price pump, but the content pumped to you. You had more and more people. Well, and that's an interesting thing. Let's talk about, let's talk about steam, the currency as a motivator. Let's talk about some past projects and some future projects. You have the yours network, which is going to be very similar to what they've said steam is. You get paid for submitting articles, you get paid for making comments, small amounts, but small amounts of Bitcoin, right? Then you're going to have steam where you get paid and steam and steam is its own currency. So it can go up or down. So maybe you get more, maybe you get less, right? You also have things in the past like change tip, which used Bitcoin to try to reward people. Which one of these is going to succeed? What do we really want out of our reward systems? Tone and then the next. All right. So here's my, oh, by the way, just a quick comment on one coin. It's about as steam is, it's about as the Dow is. One coin is significantly worse than all of them combined. It's just disgraceful what one coin is doing. I guess I still need to watch what John Seth and Chris DeRose did on Bitcoin Uncensored with that video that you talked about. I read, I spent 10 minutes reading about one coin and that was enough for me to know. That's probably the most disgraceful project in the space. At least steam is, at least steam is encouraging, creating something like content. At least the Dow people voluntarily gave away their eater. What one coin is doing is literally disgraceful. But as far as projects goes, I really don't like that name, your network. I really don't like it. They could have gotten a little more creative with the name. Now here's my idea. If you really want like a Facebook and a social network and a content site that pays the users directly, you don't need to decentralize it. That is dumb. Here's what you need to do. You need to create a site like a Facebook, like a Reddit, whatever you want. And half people, people don't even need to create user names and passwords. What you need to do is you need to, when people go to the website, have these people put up Bitcoin in escrow. You can either do it preemptively. You can do it as you come on. A QR code pops up and you put it there and it remembers it in your browser so that it stays there. So people put, let's say, $10 worth of Bitcoin in the escrow on a content site, like the new Facebook or the new Reddit. And then as these people read articles, the more they scroll through the article, the more time they spend reading the article, the moment they hit the share, the like button, based on that criteria, the Bitcoin or fractions, micro payments of that Bitcoin goes directly to the creators of that content to their wallets in escrow within the site. And then they can withdraw it at any time. This does not need to be decentralized, but the money is decentralized. People are confusing with decentralizing Facebook, with decentralizing content creation and content payments. That is what's needed. You want to have a Facebook with no ads, fine. Half people put Bitcoin in their escrow account and then as they share and as they hit the like button on other people's content, the Bitcoin just transfers from your wallet to their wallet. Nothing decentralized about it other than money. And we have Bitcoin for that. So that's the future that I'm hoping for and I would be happy to get my content from a site like that with the site admins taking a little bit for themselves as a cent fee, maybe a half a percent fee. And if that half a percent adds up to the content creator being a multi-multi billionaire like Magzacaburt, then good for him. Well and it's always worth mentioning that you can download pro tip at pro tip dot I S. And pro tip is a system very similar to what you're describing tone while it is in its very early stages and it is open source pro tip all you have to do is a creator put your Bitcoin address on your web page, YouTube, SoundCloud. All you have to do is a person wants to support content, put a few dollars in your Bitcoin wallet that's built into pro tip in your browser. It scans the pages you view for QR codes times how long you spend and at the end of the week it splits up your daily or your weekly allowance to those sites. You can try it at pro tip dot I S. If you're a programmer, you can improve it. The code is on GitHub. Theo, good. Your thoughts on all this? Yeah, I agree with you. If anyone wants to develop something, maybe pro tip would be a good starting point for you for backbone for doing something. Yeah, and I agree with tone. Don't, or Thomas and don't you think we need to put everything on a blockchain? Like put a Facebook on a blockchain. I mean, you know, and then do the social network on the blockchain. I mean, I don't think you need all that. I think if we are going to, if we are going to decentralize and split up the content, it's going to be more like open bizarre where you run a server and you publish your content on that server. It's distributed to other servers more like torrents, right? And it doesn't necessarily. Torrents don't require currency, right? This amazing thing happened on the internet. We all wanted to share files together because we like those files and we didn't have to pay each other. We did it for the good of the network. Yeah, let me just comment on that real quick. My problem with pro tip is the fact that I have to download something. Downloading some. Brows are fun. Brows are fun. I know, I know. But I really should use it and try it. As for decentralizing, again, if you have a problem with censorship, then you need to decentralize it. I think that the only useful case for open bizarre is to sell censored products or censored services. If you're not doing that, then decentralization is silly. Again, there's no reason to decentralize Facebook. All you got to do is provide privacy to your users, allow users to encrypt their content in their browser. There should be privacy conscious terms of service that is not infringed on people's privacy. And then whoever wants to start a company like that just needs to get 20, 30 servers all over the world in some nice jurisdiction places and copy this content across 20 or 30 servers. It doesn't need to be at 100,000 nodes. It just has to be decentralized enough so that the content can be taken down. So I do not see a need to decentralize Facebook unless the content is being censored. There is starting to be a change in privacy. Whereas years ago, it seemed like the idea of privacy had been given up on. Now we're seeing end-to-end encryption, rising in Facebook Messenger and other apps like that. And it sounds even possible that someday the large silos of data will realize that they have to encrypt and block even their own access from data. Maybe we'll see a Facebook that just encrypts everything and only your friends can see your content, not your advertiser friends. Yeah, no, absolutely. Theo, any more on this topic? Nope, I'm ready for the next topic. All right. We do have an exit question and we'll see how this goes. It may be too soon. Exit question, more users in a year, steam or yours network? Theo. Oh, that's a tough one. I'm going to go with yours network. Yeah. Yeah, I have to go with yours network as well, but they need to change the name. They need to rebrand as much as I hate rebranding. This one absolutely needs to. Maybe they could call it smoke instead of steam. You're sending smoke signals with your content. Look, they're all copying the Ethereum model. I mean, they even call it steam like Ethereum's gas. I mean, again, people got tired of copying Bitcoin because everything else, every copy of Bitcoin, everything else. Now they're all copying Ethereum. So they're not going to laugh. They could call it smoke and where they're smoke, there's fire. Not crazy about the name, but it is better than that. Moving on to issue two, issue two, Coinbase co-founder warns against Ethereum hard fork. Coinbase co-founder Fred Urson, famously a huge fan of Ethereum on medium, warns of the dangers of the upcoming hard fork, saying that we should learn to live with those mistakes because people will write poor smart contracts in the future. And we can't fork each time, or can they? The Dow attacker, who famously stole more than $50 million from the Dow, is the main target of the hard fork, which will occur this weekend. Toned Vays is Fred Urson, right? Should Ethereum hard fork? We also have a bonus article that Kraken will be halting Ethereum deposits for one hour before the hard fork, and that Kraken has officially announced they're going to go with the largest chain, and that they're going to be essentially seizing Ethereum deposits on the smaller chain and switching to the larger chain. So there's a lot of complexity going on this weekend. Right, Toned. All right, well, I'm going to start off with the very politically correct statement. This weekend is going to be a complete shit show. So other than that, no, of course he's correct. They shouldn't be hard forking. But then again, as a Bitcoin maximalist, as everyone likes to call me, I'm really, really curious. I mean, I love this Ethereum testnet for Bitcoin to see what happens during a hard fork. So I'm kind of curious. I hope it hard fork, and just to see what happens. Of course they shouldn't do it, but they're going to do it, and I've explained why they're going to do it. They're still in this delusional state that they're going to go to proof of stake. And I've spent, I'm so glad over in Ukraine, we're talking about that. He's the one that writing the proof of stake. What are they going to task for? I don't even know. They're still in this delusional state that they're going proof of stake. And because they're going proof of stake, they can't have some hacker have that much Ethereum. So that's probably their main reason for doing it, and they kind of want to test it out. So yeah, go for it. Do the hard fork. I'm very curious how it's going to come out. They're going to see Powell and the cracking team, they're smart, they know what they're doing. So they're on the ball. So pay attention to them, any comments that come out of them, they know what they're talking about. So I don't have much else to say about that. Yes, he's right. It's an excellent point, Tom, that the Ethereum test net is teaching Bitcoin a lot. It seems if Bitcoin one day were to add a smart contracts language, they might roll it out in a slower and more even fashion. But we are learning a lot from this experiment. Feel good, man. Well, this whole thing is making me go really long on popcorn. And I mean, one of those big tin ones with like three flavors. I mean, this thing is, it's just like non-stop every day. Oh, this article, we need a hard fork now. Otherwise, this other article, oh no, we can't have a hard fork. Oh no, we've got this other method that's not a hard fork. And the other person says, oh, it's good. And then they say, oh no, there's an attack vector for that one. So we've had that about this whole week. And the coming days should be the same. So get your popcorn ready. I agree with the co-founder Coinbase. In this case, definitely that you shouldn't have a hard fork. You should just deal with it, basically. That's just, and if you are able to deal with that, then you're going to be stronger pretty much going forward. Now, that is really interesting with the whole proof of stake thing. Because a lot of people say, oh, yeah, but Casper is like, it's not the normal proof of stake. It's the next level. It's not pure coin. But all the altcoins are using the old pure coin source. But we've got the next level proof of stake. It's distributed proof of stake 2.5 or whatever. It is. And before it even starts, they have a problem. Because at the central bottleneck, somebody stole some coins. And their staking power would be really huge. And all these other projects that are talking about, oh, we're going to make proof of stake. And we're going to make it. We've got these guys studying really high mathematics about how it's going to encourage this and that. Yeah, but most of the coins are going to be on exchange at some point. And that exchange gets hacked. And that person has a bunch of the coins. And how are you going to solve that? Well, you're not going to be able to. You're going to have to fork. So you always have these things with proof of stake like that. And you could fork. And maybe the coin is fine then. But the more you fork, because of that, that it's not a technical reason, then in my opinion, you're going to lose trust in the chain. So I agree. No hard fork. And I'm really long on popcorn. Get your big three flavor tin. Maybe they could build this forking into the coin somehow. It could be like the coin that's easy to fork. And every time they have a hack, they could just fork it. Have it more checkpoints or something. I can see the announce thread right now in the all coin section for coin. As soon as someone owns 5% it automatically forks. Onto the exit question. What is the price of Ethereum Monday morning after the hard fork, tone phase? I think it's going to drop. I think we're going to go to maybe $7 or $8 on Ethereum. Probably maybe even lower. I'm going to go low on Ethereum on that one. Feel good, bit. The price on Monday is going to be all over the place. So I don't know. I guess we could have a really crazy range, like Tenze, between 5 and 8. It could have some real crazy price action on that day. I tell you what, though. I'm sure there's going to be a lot of success stories. I'm sure you'll hear. If they do the fork, let's say tomorrow, let's say they do a fork on Sunday. On Monday, there'll be something crazy. And unlike Tuesday or Wednesday, you're going to see all these posts. I just made $30,000 on Ethereum. Oh my God, this was the greatest opportunity. But you know who you're not going to hear from. You're not going to hear from the guy that lost $30,000. You always hear from the winners. You never really hear from the losers. Very few people are willing to admit how much money they lost. And then they get ridiculed for it. And in general, Ethereum has gone up. Kind of like Bitcoin has gone up. So not many people have lost money on Bitcoin unless they've been hacked or unless they've invested in stupid projects. Like many of us have. So she and I are really going to hear that. But you will hear from a lot of winners calling guys like us. We know nothing because we don't even own the single ether. So just watch out. Just keep in mind, for every high school dropout that became Bill Gates and college dropout that became Mark Zuckerberg, there is a thousand. There are still living in their mom's basement. So it's just take that with a grain of salt, all of the success stories. I agree with the panel. It'll probably be from six to eight dollars. But again, if logic doesn't matter and people keep buying it because it goes lower, maybe it goes up. Maybe you see 12 to 14. Who knows? Not a great prediction, but I'm never right anyway. Moving on. Are you having battery problems on your phone that are keeping you from catching them all? Good, an extra battery or a battery case at purse.io and save money on everything sold by Amazon. Spend your bitcoins today at purse.io. Issue three, cloud storage provider, C-File chooses Bitcoin, ditches PayPal. After PayPal sent a probing questionnaire that the user privacy conscious C-File refused to answer, PayPal blocked them from using their service. Just a few years ago, C-File would have had no choice but to cave to PayPal's demands. Not anymore. Now C-File just takes Bitcoin. ToneVase is Bitcoin's true power in providing an alternative and alternative to PayPal and alternative to banks and credit cards and alternative to government currency. All right, so it feels like for the first time in a while, I'm actually gonna sit about a story. That's a bit broader on the Bitcoin rule because it's usually me, I'm gonna plot a shit about the project. So this is one of those things I am in Bitcoin. This is the purple of that. I have been writing about this back in coin telegraph when I first started writing for two years ago and these were the types of stories that I have. I remember I gave PayPal so much crap over what they did with proton mail. So proton mail isn't encrypted. It's centralized email service, which is excellent. They're probably the fastest grown email service right now. I was their beta user from almost day one and they were self-funded initially but then right before the launch, they started taking, they did an Indiegogo campaign and they started taking crowdfunding, I guess, money for premium services. And PayPal cut them off and one day from their Indiegogo campaign and when they reached out to PayPal, PayPal said, we're not sure you're legally allowed to encrypt email so we're not gonna let you collect, you're not gonna let you run your Indiegogo campaign for people to donate money. And that was just as graceful and PayPal is known for this. Even before Bitcoin came into existence, I don't know if you can see my friends behind me. We're on our annual college kind of summer trip to the lake. And one of my friends runs an annual NCAA tournament in March and we always, it's a $20 NTFee and we're all either send them through PayPal or see even person. And even like in the late, like before 2010, every time he would run his tournament, he would say, hey, you can send me money with PayPal, but please for the love of God, in the comments section, don't put the you're sending me $20 for the NCAA tournament. I use this PayPal account for my business, he's self-employed, I don't wanna get banned from PayPal. I mean, this is how bad PayPal has gotten and it's really disgraceful. And PayPal started out as an alternative to banking, but then they had to abide by all the rules and they went above and beyond. So what's happening with this story is, this is what Bitcoin is for. It's for to get around these regulations. I'm sorry, you don't need to use Bitcoin to go into your local store and buy, you know, your plate of Indian food. Try to convince your local grocery store or your next door neighbor that he needs to accept Bitcoin because he doesn't need to do it. This is the kind of service that needs to do it because they care about the privacy of their users and PayPal is taking that away. So this is the backbone of Bitcoin and the more companies start doing this, the more people will know what Bitcoin is really good for and then one day it will spread to services where Bitcoin isn't necessary. But for a service like this, Bitcoin is absolutely necessary. VPN services, I guess pornography websites where you don't want other people or perhaps your wife knowing what you're spending some of your money on. So these are the types of services that Bitcoin is perfect for and this is a great example of that. I wish this site well. I hope to get a bunch of users. I might actually look into it. I've never used these sites for cloud storage because I don't trust Google. I don't trust Dropbox. I'm sorry, I just don't trust them. I do trust my email provider, proton mail. They're not decentralized, but they, I encrypt my own email in my browser. Nobody knows my password but me. I lose my password, I lose my email and I don't care if they store it under network of servers because all that information is encrypted. I would love that from a cloud storage facility and I may start to look into it and maybe I'll finally use cloud storage because up to this point, I never trusted them. Well, remember the cloud is just someone else's computer and PayPal really did start out as a great company. I read that book recently, The PayPal Wars, all about how difficult it was to build PayPal and the back and forth as they went through and it started out as a way to send money around from your palm pilot and you're supposed to be able to pay your buddy back for lunch, which is exactly what I use Bitcoin for now. And it went its own way and pretty much before the IPO, they had to cut off the gambling and pornography sites. It's kind of led to the PayPal culture of banning and blocking and freezing that they never really got away from. Theo Goodman, your thoughts on C file? Oh yeah, I definitely agree with you. Good for a C file that they figured out a way to get around PayPal and now that Bitcoin, I wouldn't say Bitcoin is mainstream, but it's well known enough now that they can use it and enough people that are interested in their services are gonna be able to get Bitcoin and use it. I mean, if this was two years ago, it probably wouldn't have been a very viable option for them, but I think now Bitcoin must be big enough that they can do it and maybe it's one of their only choices at this point because even the other providers like Skrill or NetTeller, I don't know if anyone knows of those guys, but it's similar to PayPal. I mean, they're gonna have, in the end, very similar questions over time. They might be a little bit, I think, like for example, Skrill is more lenient for gambling because they're based in Europe, but probably not for US customers. So you have always the same problem. So they just said, probably I said, forget it, we'll just use Bitcoin and that's fine. So yeah, that's a good example of how they can get around using PayPal and good for them. Yeah, and also don't forget, I mean, it's thanks to PayPal and Visa and MasterCard is the reason why Bitcoin is what it is today because it all started with WikiLeaks. The first time I ever heard about Bitcoin and in the mainstream was back in, I believe December 2010, when Amir Taki went on the Bitcoin forums after WikiLeaks got banned from PayPal and from Visa and MasterCard, saying WikiLeaks needs to start accepting Bitcoin in order to continue running their servers and Satoshi intervened and said, no, no, no, Bitcoin can't support it, we don't want this kind of attention. It's too early, it's too soon. Bitcoin was worth like 10 to 15 cents back then. That's when I first heard about it. I'm not even sure if Silk Road was up and running by then I believe it was, but Silk Road didn't become popular until mid 2011 when Chuck Schumer went on TV talking about how horrible that was and that blew Bitcoin up from $1 all the way to $30 in price. But I still say WikiLeaks started it all back in December of 2010, six months before Chuck Schumer took out an ad to promote Silk Road for people. And that was thanks to PayPal, PayPal and Visa MasterCard. If only they had allowed transactions and donations to go to WikiLeaks, Bitcoin might not have been what it is today. So thank you, PayPal. It's true, they definitely left an opening for a competitor by failing to allow a non-judgmental way of sending funds. They kept judging all the transactions. And I think that's what you're going to see with Coinbase. Keep reading more and more reports about Coinbase shutting down accounts that send money to gambling sites, et cetera, et cetera. And the level of analysis they're having to do on the Bitcoin addresses and on their users to track this all down is going to drive people away from their service. Moving on to the exit question, will PayPal ever ditch PayPal and provide their long awaited Bitcoin integration, toon base? No, they're kind of married to it. They're, I mean, PayPal is big. People don't realize how much money PayPal is holding. I think PayPal is holding more customer cash than any bank. But PayPal still, I mean, they got a long way to go. US dollar is still king. Bitcoin is probably like a pimple on an elephant's ass as far as market cap goes for global usability and global transactions. So I don't think PayPal is going anywhere for a long time. And remember, most transactions are not censored. Well, they could be censored, but most transactions are not the gambling. Most transactions are not for these kinds of things. So PayPal still has a lot of uses. So they'll be around for a while and they're married to the idea. So I'm not, I don't think PayPal is really worried about this. Theo, good man. I don't think the PayPal directly, well, they might have a, you know, a subsidiary of them that they own and they do some kind of project where they would allow Bitcoin payment processing. But I don't think like Tonsets, they want to keep PayPal itself pure. They want to keep that pure so it can be on the, the chip markets. And then if they see volume or demand there, then I could see them making a subsidiary company somehow or offshore or something like that and doing it like that. Yeah, but also if PayPal, I mean, if PayPal gets into this, all they're going to do is put Coinbase out of business. Because I agree. So PayPal will just pick up into users and all PayPal will do is it will accept Bitcoin from those that have Bitcoin and just put dollars into people's accounts. It'll be like a PayPal button and it will have, you know, if you want to pay in Bitcoin, you pay in Bitcoin. But they're not going to go to the other end. It's not like PayPal is suddenly going to utilize Bitcoin to enter the gray market areas like gambling sites, like what do, adult sites like political, well, not political donations, but political donations to things that government doesn't approve of. It's not like they're going to enter those markets. They're going to go in the other direction. They'll gladly take your Bitcoin and take a half a percent or not even, they have small overhead. So they can easily accept Bitcoin from people like Austin Habit and just put local Fiat currency on the end of the business user. But they're going to stick to the business users that are already PayPal users. They're not going to enter the gray market. If anyone wants to take a look at how that would look like just go to net teller, that's basically what they have. And the teller is kind of like a PayPal alternative. And they also do take Bitcoin and they do serve gambling for sure and maybe some other things. I don't know if it's available for US people, but it's just an example. It's pretty simple. It's just like what you said, more or less. I'm pretty sure net teller is not in the US and I'll tell you why because back in the day, back when online gambling and poker became popular, like in the early 2000s at the turn of the century or the millennium, I get those confused all the time. And the turn of the millennium. I had money in that teller because that was the only way to move it over to these gambling sites. And then they froze all of the US deposits. So I ended up with like a few hundred dollars stuck in that teller for years. I don't even remember if I ever got it. So ever since then, I've done nothing but talk crap about that teller because they literally froze all of US customers money. And I'm not even sure they ever got it back. So that was pretty bad. I mean, I shouldn't have had money there to begin with. I mean, that was bad. That was like a third party unknown site holding your money. You should have just used that teller to move that money into your gambling sites. But then you have to use that teller to then get it back. Your money shouldn't have been sitting there. But yeah, so I don't know if that teller came back to the US market. But ever since that happened in early 2000s, I never looked at that teller again. That's a very reminiscent of the time when you could only buy Bitcoin by transferring money to your DeWalla account, then transferring from DeWalla to Mt. Gox. DeWalla eventually decided they didn't want all those funds and all those fees. And they froze everyone's account and cut it right off. Again, I just have to like just one more point on this topic. For any new listeners that might be watching this podcast for the first time, Bitcoin hasn't changed anything. We've had these workarounds for great, for the most governments consider a great market. And different governments consider different things great market. We had all this, all of these since the internet began, even before internet, all of this has been there. The only difference with the revolution of Bitcoin, the technological revolution of Bitcoin, the only difference is this middleman that is moving your money can no longer confiscate your money. It can no longer be frozen. Like there's nothing new. People have always used middleman to move money to websites that governments don't like. And before websites, this was happening. I'm a friend of gambling offshore before the internet. You just have to mail your money in and then you use, you call the system and then you would type one if you want to bet on the warriors. Two, if you want to bet on, you use the phone system for this. So you ask for a live operator. And to get your money there, you use Western Union, you use other means. We've always had this. The only difference is that Bitcoin will not freeze your money up to this point, as long as the network survives. That's the difference. It's not the idea. It's the middleman has changed. And that's the important part to decentralize a gambling site. You just need to make sure the money can't be taken. Excellent point, Tony. And we're moving on to predictions or a story of the week. Theo Goodman, are you ready with a prediction or a story? I am ready. I'm ready with my prediction. It could be a longer term prediction. Unfortunately, we had the attack in France. And there was a coup attempt in Turkey. A lot of people died, no matter what side you're on. But it's just a matter of time before someone, at one of these events. Of course, if they're an attacker, they carry their passport with them. Because that's what you do, right? And it's randomly found. And there's going to be a paper wallet folded up in this, in this randomly found passport. Or maybe just something that says Bitcoin happens to be randomly, of course, the person doing the attack, put the Bitcoin, the thing with Bitcoin, put it in their pocket, and then went to the attack and then put their passport too. So I think that in the future, we could see some random mention of Bitcoin after one of these attacks. It's very unfortunate when they start calling Bitcoin out for something that it didn't do, tone-based. Wow, that was, I did not know that. I did that, obviously, that's completely ridiculous. I'm surprised they don't just find all these people with like Bitcoin private keys just tattooed on them, right? Yeah, no, that's crazy that they always find these passports like a plane has evaporated. There's no, like the engine has disappeared, but the passport managed to survive. Meanwhile, the engine has burned up in the gasoline smoke. Anyway, it's completely crazy. So I am also gonna stick with that, and I'm gonna focus on Turkey. Again, you know what, I'm never ready for this section, I'm never ready for a prediction or story of the week. So what I'm going to do is I'm just going to look for stuff that happened this week that I can go back to and point to a previous, the Bitcoin group, and it will be like the tone I told you so section. So we talked about Turkey on this podcast, I believe in episode 96 or somewhere in the mid 90s, where PayPal in Turkey, Bitcoin, I don't remember, and I was very critical of Turkey, and I said, Turkey is got bigger problems, especially in the religion space, and Bitcoin is completely irrelevant there. And all the commenters jump down on me, saying you don't understand Turkey, it's the most modern Islamic country in the middle east, and in all this nonsense, look, this is what happens. So again, this is another, I told you so, and Turkey, Bitcoin, it can help, they got bigger problems, they got to solve their overbearing religion, their overbearing religious leaders, Turkey needs freedom, they need freedom first, a Bitcoin later, US has tasted freedom, it's going into socialism, Europe has tasted freedom for a little bit, they're going into ultra socialism, these places need Bitcoin to move their wealth before governments take it away. You want freedom, go to the socialist republic of Vietnam, where I just came from, there's actual freedom there, not around here, I'll probably be going back to Vietnam and Thailand. And the same thing goes for Turkey and other countries in that area, I've been to other countries in that area, I've been to Morocco, I'll pass through this, again, Morocco together, give you people some internet, give you people some freedom, and maybe then those people will discover Bitcoin and take a bit for a mile. So these places have a lot bigger fights than Bitcoin. Maybe Bitcoin will help them with those fights, but those are more mental fights than currency moving fights. So I'm hoping that these countries would start to embrace, I guess, a little more freedom. I'll end it on that note. Good story, Tony. And I'd just like to thank everyone for watching today. We had about 61 live viewers, which is great for an unplanned show on a Saturday morning. If you haven't already, please subscribe to the World Crypto Network, leave us a comment below. Maybe if you want to join the World Crypto Network Slack, DM your email to at MadBitcoins, we can add you in there, we talk, we do shows, we talk. And now, my prediction or story of the week, just the story of the week this week, I saw on Twitter that Kim.com is getting very close to announcing his follow up to mega upload. He has described it as, as if mega upload and Bitcoin had a baby. So I think that sounds great for the future of the internet, perhaps a way to transfer files. And again, reward the people who uploaded the files, reward the people who torrent or seed the files with some actual currency, with some Bitcoin. He didn't create a mega upload coin. So good on him, Kim.com. And we're about out of time. So until next time, bye-bye. Bye-bye. Here's the beach from Tony. Here's the beach. This is the lake and before I jump in the pool. All right. Bye-bye, everyone. That was a great weekend. Bye-bye.