The Bitcoin Group, the American original. For over the last 10 seconds, the sharpest Satoshi's, the best Bitcoins, the hardest cryptocurrency talk. We'd like to welcome our panelists, Gabriel D. Vaan, from Future Rant. Tony Vaan. Tony Vaan is from Brave New Coin. Hey guys, glad to be here. Theo Goodman from Hasse online. Hello viewers, thanks for watching and to all our podcast listeners. Thanks a lot for listening. And I'm Thomas Hunt from the World Crypto Network. Welcome to our viewers on World Crypto Network and Bitcoin.com. Moving on to issue one, save Chris Ellis. Fans of Chris Ellis banded together this week raising more than $4,000 in just three days using a simple web page, a Bitcoin address, and blockchain.info. Chris is suffering from migraine headaches and hyperaccuses, and extreme sensitivity to sound, even the sound of his own voice. The Bitcoin Group wishes in well and is honored by the broad range of support for this fundraiser. Theo Goodman, your thoughts on Chris Ellis and Bitcoin is Bitcoin the future for fundraisers like this? I think Bitcoin could really be useful for projects like this because we had people from all over the world contribute to him getting better. So just to break it down for all of you that don't know, Thomas said he's suffering from migraines and this other thing that I can't pronounce right now. So basically he has headaches and ear pain and things like that. But one of the first problems is he can't get diagnosed. So he's been to a lot of different doctors and alternative kind of things and everything. You kind of get their run around. He is in England and they do have national health care because some people said how come he can't get care. Because they tell him, well, you're not terminal, you're not dying and we don't know what you have. So we can't really treat you. So he has like kind of, and then there's the other aspect of just kind of surviving day to day. So you have to treat the symptoms you do have and he is able to do that, you know, but it's still tough. So hopefully the fundraiser will help him get a diagnosis and also help him treat the symptoms that he does have for right now. And you know, some people even suggested that he goes to Thailand, not to go on vacation, but you know, the air is different, the climate is different than England and maybe that would help because he has tried a lot of different things like, you know, oxygen masks, pressure chambers, I don't even know all the different stuff that he's tried. He's also done a lot of research and everything else. So that's really good as far as Bitcoin is concerned. Yeah, people from all over the world donated to this and he's also going to open source his findings. So that means that he's going to try to document what's going on with him and what the doctors tell him. So if someone else has a similar problem that they can, you know, maybe use that information to get help too if they have similar symptoms. So yeah, I think Bitcoin definitely was part of this low friction people contributing. I agree, Theo. If you look at the webpage and, you know, I designed it, it's a very simple webpage, but putting the QR code up there up front on the homepage, you can donate right from here. It really shows the utility and the ease of use for Bitcoin for direct action donations like this. Even right now, while we're retransmitting the QR code, you can still donate five, ten bucks to Chris right through this link on your screen. Gabriel, do you find? Well I think that it's a great sort of micro example of the fundraising possibilities that Bitcoin allows. So the first time since 2009, we're able to do micro crowd funds really without an intermediary. I mean Kickstarter and all those other companies are intermediaries and they skimmed the money where I off the top. Instead we have tiny, tiny fractions of amounts of being skimmed off in the form of mining fees which aren't even strictly necessary. And we've got this way cheaper form. It's much more direct like you said, the QR code. So it's a fantastic example of that, first of all. And second of all, it's a wonderful testament to all the people in the world that Chris has touched with his cogent analysis. And I want to say just sort of heartfelt, very ethically and morally focused and comments on the world and especially finance. So, and I'm one of those people, you know, when I first started Chris on some really big chat with Andrea Santinopoulos a long time ago, or maybe not the first time with first time I really heard what he was talking about. He was this fellow cone guy and he really inspired me to get involved a bit more. And so this is a great sort of sign of people giving back for that. On the health level, I saw him tweet recently that it might be caused or partially caused by Chris having drastically reduced his lifestyle so that he could pursue purely, you know, almost filanthropical. And I don't want to say filanthropical, just sort of giving to the world and not asking for much back. And it looks like he might have taken that a little too far and he took, he restricted his calories. And so, he was able to tweet the other day. It's possible that the restrictions and limitations he put on his diet have actually negatively affected his health. So, hopefully you can pull back from the break with that and maybe raise a little bit more money so that he can eat fresh, proper food and get enough calories per day. And it's unfortunate, however Chris got sick, I think we all just want to get him better. And I just wanted to go over the donations really quick and say that as much as I'd like some rich guy to just come in and drop $5,000 on this campaign. This has been a campaign of everyone, $383.19, $1.53, $1.55, we had a few $75, a few $100 donations. Here's 101, 508, 1914. I mean, these are all small donations and this is just an example of everyone working together. Everyone wants Chris to be healthy. Nobody in particular is paying for it directly here. This is really the work of many hands making light work. I think it's just great when Bitcoin can come together like this and really do some good. Tones, your thoughts on the Chris Ellis fundraiser? No, I think Bitcoin will change fundraising in the future especially for things like this. I don't know if you still want me to put my phone up. It really goes well for people that are kind of lazy, including myself. I mean, I knew this campaign was happening but I didn't get around to scanning the QR code till just now being on the show. I was also out of the country for a little bit and it's just amazingly convenient and best of all. It's KYC free and those that have heard me speak for a while now and on these shows, I'm all about financial privacy. It's the most important thing to me. So anytime there is one of these fundraisers for money, I think it's great because you can contribute without, if you want people to know who you are, you can make it known who you are. But if you don't, it leaves everything up to the user. Just a few other comments. I wanted to say on this as far as spending goes. If Chris wants to make a statement with this, and I hope Chris is listening, what you can do is I see Bitcoin as being the future of all charity financing, mostly because all the transactions are public on the blockchain. If you have a public charity, I just, I find it so frustrating that you have to, you need government permission to be a nonprofit organization. I just find that crazy, all the paperwork and all the lawyers and then you have to prove that you are a nonprofit. I really think this is one of the blockchain applications is that you want to be a nonprofit great, run everything through Bitcoin and everything through the blockchain and call yourself a nonprofit. If anybody wants to question it, go find a developer, show them all your QR codes and there you go. Everything I spend, everything documented, every time you do a Bitcoin transaction, you put a note exactly what it was one day if the Bitcoin blockchain is used as a notary service. You take a picture of all the receipts and you hash that picture in. Again, that's way into the future, but that's the idea. To me, the future of charitable organizations for nonprofit is going to take government completely out of it and run it through the blockchain. Things like this are proof because Chris is a friend of ours and we know him and we know that he's sick and we believe him. But people on the other side of the world can't prove that he's sick. But this is a way if all your payments go through Bitcoin and you can prove that everything you've collected is actually going to treat you. It just creates a lot more trust for sending money because I don't give money to charities. I don't trust any of them. I don't care if they say they're not a profit. I know half that money goes to the ones that are collecting for it anyway. So I think there is a lot of things Bitcoin can do for charities and collections. Also one of the comments somebody talked about clean food and clean air. Oh, that is absolutely true. I'm a big believer in eating clean food. I'm at the farmers markets every weekend, even living in New York City. Kind of sucks having to always find an up at like eight in the morning on a Saturday just so you can get eggs because they sell out so quick. And also environment. Every time I leave New York, I just feel so much better. I was just in the Dominican Republic and I wake up in the morning and I breathe better over there than here. I'll be in Mexico next week. It will probably be the same thing. So yeah, so I'm no longer a big fan of these metropolitan cities. London, New York, LA. I really like the clean air in some of the other countries or even outside the major cities and major countries. Now this exit question is very much inspired by CNN. I watched the show Inside Man and the guy goes to Thailand and gets a lot of tests done for a lot less money in the US. So I'm going to ask you guys, yes or no, should we fly Chris to Thailand to seek inexpensive healthcare? The old good man. Yeah, I'm going to stick to the binary and just say, yeah, that's a good idea. Gabriel. I would say if the cost including the inconvenience of time and travel and being away from home is drastically cheaper or at least noticeably cheaper than yes. Tom Vays. I have to go with yes. I mean, I've been to Thailand. I think it would be good. And I've spoken to people that have gone to Thailand to seek medical treatment and it's so much cheaper there. And when you talk to those doctors and you're asking, well, you have a US education, why when should work in the US? And they're like, well, like charge 90% less here, but my cost of living is so low and it's great. So there are good doctors there. I mean, I've spoken to people directly about this. I also think the change of scenery, having some fresh air, fresh food, getting outdoors, this could help them as well. It's not scientific, but those are our thoughts. Moving on, issue two, block stream, 55 million. Bitcoin started a block stream, home of the fighting side chains, raised $55 million to go with their already impressive 21 million. As the mega firm already employs most of the Bitcoin core developers and continues to be focused on the idea of side chains, a new way to use Bitcoin's computing power that could see it powering other block chains. Gabriel, divine your thoughts on block streams, impressive rays. I agree that it is impressive, actually, especially in the climate right now. Actually, I mean, I guess we're coming out of a tech bubble now. So it's conceivable we could see a drop off in funding this year compared to last year or maybe a drop off in proportion to the growth of the field. So it could still be a higher absolute number, but compared to the growth of the Bitcoin ecosystem, conceivably we could be heading down a bit over the next couple three years. But block stream is one of those companies that is really focused on creating open source software. From the profit perspective, it's as a byproduct of services that they plan to give. And I'm seeing that paradigm working out better than ever before lately in other fields besides Bitcoin as well, such as drones, 3D printing. And this sort of open source ethos is definitely taking over as intellectual assets, as ideas grow their proportion of our world that will become more and more dominant in the marketplace. Any company that hires Adam Back who created one of the integral elements of Bitcoin and Hash Hash, several years beforehand, as far as I'm concerned, is making a good move. And Dr. Back's comments and incredible intelligence in his interview zone and occasional tweets is really obvious. Block stream is also one of the companies that's come out very much in favor of Bitcoin core and the consensus model rather than pseudo-democratic, actually authoritarian model that is being paraded by classic supporters, Bitcoin classic supporters. They've been on the correct in my opinion side of this hard fork debate the whole time. So it's really great to see that some companies are also putting their money behind these technical wizards because they believe in the profit side as well. Obviously, they're not necessarily investing, just so they can throw the money into open source software. Everyone, assuming that the main draw right now is the back end, the liquid, which is the block, the off-chain system that they've created to allow the Bitcoin exchanges to send huge amounts of money back and forth to each other in order to increase liquidity in the Bitcoin exchange market. So it's great news. Tom Vays. There you go. You did. So I am a huge fan of Block stream. I'm actually very happy that they got this round. It's a pretty good amount of money, so I'm very happy for them. It's great that Gabe mentioned Adam Back. I met Adam Back on several occasions, I've spoken to him. Excellent. His work was even cited by Satoshi when he was putting together the white paper. Other people there, including Gregory Maxwell, one of my favorite developers in the space. I believe Luke Dash Jr. is with them as well. They picked up the Lightning project. I can't say more good things about them, and it's really unfortunate that so many people think that these core developers have their own agenda, and that's why they don't want to raise the block size. That's just silly to me. They have an actual view. They understand privacy, especially Adam Back. He understands privacy. He understands security. I can't say any more good things about Block stream and what they're doing. The only thing that's unfortunate is now they are forced to kind of campaign. It's all political now with what Bitcoin Classic is doing and what Bitcoin XT was doing. There's a reason like Gavin and Jason and Mike Hurn and the Tumon brothers. There's a reason why they're not part of Block stream, because they don't have that kind of mentality that understands the financial innovation behind Bitcoin and that it's more than just technological. Yeah, so great. If anyone from Block stream is listening, great. I know Johnny really as well. He's part of that team and they got Rusty Russell from the Linux project. It's great. It's great what they're putting together. I love it. Yeah, of course. It's good that they got the funding. I like what they're doing. On the other hand, it's just the thing that kind of makes me a little hesitant about it is that they do have a lot of people that work for them that are core developers. No matter if there is some kind of weird conspiracy or not, the perception is that they are like buying the core developers. I don't think that's how it is, but I can see that argument. You see what I mean? As far as getting more funding, that's good because they're developing stuff for Bitcoin and the core developers can also work on Bitcoin because nobody gets paid to work on Bitcoin core itself. They're paid by someone else to work on it. That's good because that's an open source project. I guess that's the only comment that I really have about it is that there has to be some way to deal with that. I don't know what the solution is, but if one company happens to employ a whole bunch of the core developers, there's always going to be some kind of at least a perception of some kind of issue there. That needs to be figured out, but I don't have a solution. I was going to jump in on that a little bit, Theo. My view on it is, while we're so used to something like that, that being a problem, but for those that have met these core developers that have met the Adam Back, Adam Back's and Gregory Maxwell's, these are not the type of people that would be bought to change their core beliefs. That is why I'm a huge fan of blockchain. I don't care that they're paying all of these developers. I see them as the most important developers and their personality and the type of people they are. For me, there's no question, but it's also because I've met them because I'm around. I'm at all these Bitcoin events, including all the scaling Bitcoin events. That's maybe one of the reasons why I take it for granted that other people think are easily believed that it's some kind of a conspiracy and that they're going to collude and they're going to turn Bitcoin and profit themselves from it. I personally think that's just silly, but I'm also coming from where I've met these guys and I trust them more than any other developers that aren't part of blockchain. I'm actually more worried about teams that are not on the blockchain's payroll because of the mentality and the kind of people they bring onto that team. I'm going to go ahead and throw a curveball here for the exit question. How would you guys compare blockchain with 21? They're both very large razors. They've raised an incredible amount of money. They both have big ideas, side chains, the 21 Bitcoin computer. They both have a negative image, perhaps, because of their large razors. What do you guys think? Gabriel Devon, thoughts on blockchain in 21. How would you compare the two? That's a really interesting question and I think that is a valid comparison, like you said, because of the sheer scale of the two startups. Very different mindset behind the two companies. One blockchain was founded by developers, by Bitcoin core developers. Their focus is how can we engender development for the Bitcoin ecosystem? How can we improve processes that already exist or make new processes for the Bitcoin ecosystem within the Bitcoin ecosystem? The 21 Inc was founded by a Vola G. Srinivasan who worked or still does possibly at the venture capital company of Francisco that Mark Andreessen is one of the partners of. You would probably name him. Those guys, he has a completely different view. He's a VC. He's a very, very technically talented venture capitalist. His whole thing is, Bitcoin is this wonderful thing. I want to bring it to the world. How can we do that faster? How can we scale? Also to speak, not internally, but how can we grow the user base? How can we make this exponential technology grow exponentially in the culture? It's almost from an opposite perspective of like, hey, we're in society and we need Bitcoin. I want it to be able to grow and get everywhere. How can we prep the world for Bitcoin? And luxury, I think, is how can we prep Bitcoin for the world? Very good comparison, Gabe. Tom Vays. So I see them like one, basically, it's like a Microsoft Delk kind of thing. So one is a software company and the other is a hardware company. And the hardware company is realizing how difficult it is to make money in Bitcoin. It is a real challenge. And it's almost impossible, really. Bitcoin was designed as a peer-to-peer value transfer to be simple, quick, and cheap. And yes, it's not quick enough for some, 10 minutes, good Lord. And it's not cheap enough for some. Oh my God, I got to raise my feet at 10 cents. So there will always be people criticizing. But there's not much money in the hardware. And 21 ink is going to find that out. And same thing with Dell. I mean, Dell came out good at first. I remember I built one of my first computers, all my roommate in college helped me. And after that, I kind of stuck with it. But most of the time, you just buy them from the same company that is building the software, kind of like Apple's doing and what Microsoft's been doing. And Dell's kind of been relegated. So I kind of see that future, only just like with everything else. Bitcoin does everything we've seen before. Only it does it three to five times faster. So the whole cycle of software hardware and computers will be repeated within Bitcoin. Only it's happening at like 5X to speed. Unfortunately, I don't think there will be much success coming out of 21 ink, but blockchain will do just fine. Theo, good. I think I like that point you brought up that there's people that think negatively of these two companies because they got a lot of funding. Because let's admit, there's the element of jealousy. And that's just how it is. That's just how humans are. Like, why did they get money? They're just building a Raspberry Pi with ant miner attached to it. So there's, and why did they get money? They're just trying to dominate Bitcoin on the blockchain stream. So there's definitely that aspect of it and the negativity. So almost any startup that gets a whole lot of funding is going to have haters. And that's just how it is. That doesn't matter what niche or anything. I think that's just part of the landscape. Now to compare them, well, yeah, software versus hardware. Blockchain stream is coding software. And I think a big difference is that they have people that are on the core development team of Bitcoin, as we all know. And so that's also contributing to open source. Whereas 21, they have like a let their own, I will understand right, their own Linux version. And it's kind of branded. So it's like you type in and it's like the command is not a Git, but it's like Git 21 or something. I don't know if that's one of them, but I mean, that's kind of funny. I like that from an artistic point of view. I think that's brilliant, but it's kind of weird. I don't know. I could see both arguments, you know, how that's ridiculous. But I think it's kind of funny. I kind of like that. That's an artistic way. So that was good 21, but you've got to come up with some better hardware because it's just not that's not pulling it right now. I'm not excited. I'm when I saw the 21 computer, I thought, okay, I'll buy that on eBay in one or two years for 20 bucks and play with it, but I'm not going to pay for it now. I'd like to speak to that actually. Actually, well, yeah, Thomas, do you have any? Okay. You know, the first of all, I did remember the BC company in Santeries and Horowitz. Starting the Bitcoin computer, I don't think they were hoping this would be a big retail smash. And the pricing, I think, was a way for them to do a small run and make a small profit just to appease the shareholders, which of course has its own ethical issues itself. But it's very clear that they've spent millions on proper mining hardware that they're actually running and they've got a mining concern on the back end that you hear nothing about. That's just a mining company with investors. It's not even involved with a super space at all. This is just to prep the code space and it's to build a little bit of infrastructure and improve. And I'm sure if you talk to Bologgy himself and you said, hey, what do you think about all these competitors or people that followed in your footsteps and were like, hey, I can do that from way cheaper. He'd been like, that's great. That's exactly what we wanted to do. We just wanted to use our marketing dollars and get our own thing out there that's overpriced and improve the marketplace with a lot of different stuff. So this is kind of their first salvo into the marketplace, I feel like. That sounds cool. Yeah, so you can make, if you can make a node smartwatch, then that would be really cool. Thanks. Yeah, TTO, not two years. Remember, everything is three to five times faster in Bitcoin. It's not going to take you two years to buy it off of eBay for 20 bucks. It's going to be much sooner than that. But I do, I agree with everyone. I think the 21 Bitcoin computer is an interesting piece of hardware. I like the idea of having a hobbyist kit to try to get more people to program Bitcoin and I'm very interested in what they've released on their little marketplace. The Twitter bot, I think Andreas wrote a charge for Wi-Fi type script. These kind of small scripts plus Bitcoin is a really great thing for the future. I do think they've both been unfairly cast. It's really hard to understand when a company that maybe you and I don't use every day raises 50 million. I mean, we understand Coinbase. We all, a lot of people use Coinbase. It's a very popular service. It's very down to earth. But these other things might be more for developers at a higher level. We might not be able to understand them. But remember, it's 50 million dollars. It doesn't go that far when you have to hire the best developers. That's what we've seen from both of these companies. The best developers are going there. We should see hopefully some really exciting products in the future. Let's move on to the plug. Got Bitcoin? Buy anything at Amazon. For a 15% discount or more at purse.io, you make a wish list on Amazon. You copy and paste it. You set your discount and pay in Bitcoin. When your items arrive, you let us know. It's as simple as that. purse.io Issue 3 Ethereum continues to grow. The little token that could Ethereum continues to climb this week reaching an amazing 521% for this month and rising as much as 30% in a single day as the demand for the token continues to drive the price. Or is it speculation? Tongue Vays, your thoughts on the continued price growth of Ethereum? Oh my God. I need to just take a vow of silence on Ethereum. I'm like, I was telling Theo in another video that we do is I was literally hiking through some jungle in the Dominican Republic in the middle of the country to a waterfall using up all my Verizon data, paying, I haven't even seen that bill yet. Just like arguing with Ethereum people. It's the new religion. I swear. It's the new religion. But I probably, I should reflect back. Perhaps I was liked out about two years ago when I got involved in Bitcoin. And I got involved in Bitcoin just before all the craziness with the altcoins happened. The life coin and the peer coin and the name coin. And my favorite was Aurora coin that I still use as an example. It was another pre-mine socialist kind of thing going on like Ethereum is doing. And it went to $100 per coin. I think it's down to $0.5 now. So I don't know. I'm still everyone keeps screaming at me. Look at the tech. Look at the tech. I keep asking them what new explain to me what Ethereum does and that I never hear back from them. I mean, these are really interesting discussions. I don't understand. Here's my problem. Here's my problem with the entire thing. They pre-mined $60 million or whatever it was Ethereum. They put it up in a crowd sale for Bitcoin, which is completely illegal. It's a security sale. The SEC is going to probably subpoena every single one of the people that was involved in Ethereum. I'm guessing. I'm speculating here. Not that I agree that the, I mean, I don't think the SEC should exist. But because they exist, you have to be aware of what you are doing in the financial space. So you can't just issue a digital asset and sell it to anyone, like the 16-year-olds or whoever else that bought it. That's one problem. My other problem is I personally have met at least six co-founders of Ethereum. God knows how many more there are. I have no idea how much Ether they have, how much Ether they kept. I don't know. I mean, it just doesn't look good to me. I think they've all officially left the project and they left the youngest one in charge, basically holding the bag. I'm not a developer anymore. I'm not looking at the code. I'm looking at the financial aspect of it. And I don't understand if they're going to be this decentralized smart contract platform. Again, my argument to every developer is if you're so good, why don't you come up with something awesome and submit it as a bit? Because I believe even with Alex said that in order for Ethereum to succeed, Bitcoin has to die. Which is possible. Bitcoin could die. It's an experiment itself. But there is just so much money and so much hashing power. And proof of work is important. It's not going to be easy to overtake Bitcoin. And I just, I don't know. I don't understand what Ethereum is doing. I don't understand what a lot of this next wave of 2.0 companies are doing like auger and factum. And again, we can go on and on naming these things. We're not even going to get into the private blockchains, the blockchain without the blockchain and just another database. And that's another piece of the hype. The fact that a company that based database without the token and without the blocks when they figured that part out eventually is now joining Ethereum, which is smart contracts without the smart contracts, which is also ages away. And we can talk about smart contracts. I mean, to me, a smart contract is something that gets around current government laws. But if it's a contract involving a human, right now the human can take your smart contract to a court where another human, where a fancy robe can nullify your digital smart contract. I mean, that's something they haven't figured out yet. At least I haven't heard any good explanations to this question. So you start asking these people these types of questions and they have no idea how to answer them because they've never even thought of this as a problem. All they hear is this is going to revolutionize everything. I mean, talk to a savvy Bitcoin person and ask them what they do with their Bitcoins and they'll give you an answer you're not going to like because they're probably buying something or spending it on a service that you're not going to like because guess what, it's useful. And I don't understand the usefulness of the Ethereum tokens. It is all hype. It is all speculation and this bubble can last for a while. But I don't see anything there yet. Hey, I might change my mind and when they have something, when they have a product, when they have something that's useful. But anyway, I don't want to think too much time. I'm already going on and on. I was going to like write up my official statement and just do a screen share. So people can like take a screenshot of it and then they don't have to keep asking me what my opinion is. And as far as people saying that I hate an Ethereum, I don't go out hating an Ethereum. Someone asked me a question about Ethereum. I answer it honestly of what that opinion is. It's not that I think the comments was about but hurt on Ethereum. No, I don't care about Ethereum. I ignore Ethereum. The only time I care about Ethereum is someone asked me about Ethereum. I have to go and look up the price. So now I just completely ignore that technology. I don't think there is much there. I just don't. Well, I still want to say for the record that I was probably very wrong on Ethereum. I was on a show much like this one where we made a lot of fun of their countdown timer clock and how you had to buy Ethereum or the price would go up. In actual reality, I think a friend of mine had vested $500 and he just pulled about 10K out. So oops, I missed that one. But I'm with you, Tone. I really feel that the technology is interesting. I like the smart contracts. I like what Vitalik is doing. Ethereum, the gas, the token. I don't know the value of the token. When we were talking about it before, like I said, we were talking about it when it was launched. And a lot of people were still calling it vaporware. All of those things. But we're like, what is the gas useful for? Well, if you want to do a contract, you need to buy gas. So the only people that need to buy gas are programmers writing contracts. Well, the current range of speculation has pushed this gas price up so high. I think it's going to cost a lot more to run a smart contract, which to me makes the system harder to use, which means that perhaps the gas price will come back down so that you can run a cheaper smart contract. I really, as much as I like speculation and I like hype, I don't know the price of the gas. I don't know how useful it is. I don't know how to properly assign a price to it. Let me just jump back in real quick. I know I'm taking up time from the other guys. To answer that, like, Vitalik has made it perfectly clear that he doesn't understand economics. And he just doesn't. I mean, he said this publicly. He doesn't see what he's doing as having an economic effect. And what he is learning right now that there is a major economic effect because of the speculation in his pre-mind token, which then is going to become proof of work and then is going to become proof of stake. And when it becomes proof of stake, games over, the proof of stake doesn't work. It just doesn't work. It's like asking communism to work. It doesn't work. North Korea is trying to hold out, but eventually it will also fail. And it doesn't work. And on top of that, even like a year or two ago, I remember arguing what privacy means with Vitalik. I just, look, the guy might be a genius developer, but he has zero life experience. And he's leading this project. And he doesn't understand economics. He doesn't understand speculation. He has no idea what trading really is. Not that most people trading altcoins do, but again, but at least they understand how markets move. They understand how speculation can create and rule in a project. And between Vitalik, not understanding economics and Vitalik, not understanding privacy, two things that Satoshi apparently knew very, very well. I just don't see that project working out in the long run. Not to mention, isn't it being copied now for the code to be used in those non-token databases? So what is the token? I don't know. If you're going to have a smart contract, have a smart contract, you shouldn't need a token. This is insane. EO, good. Well, after that, I'm not sure what to say. No, I'm just checking. Yeah, sure. The price is going up. It could keep going up. Who knows? Every day, I'm surprised of the comments. I read on some of the redettes. Hey, guys, I just converted all of my Bitcoin into Ethereum. And I think, oh, no, that's going to end badly. If you're converting right now, are you OK? But do what you want. That's fine. OK, so the two major touching on what Tone said is one of the things that I'm not sure everyone gets or they think it's good that this is happening. So there is Ethereum and there is their blockchain, which is right now proof of work. And then there is Ethereum and Serpent, the programming language that's used to create all the contracts and all that cool stuff that everyone likes. So a lot of the private blockchains have chosen to use Ethereum, but it's the programming language Ethereum and this Serpent. It's like a fork of it. It's not that they're using Ethereum. OK, so that's just like their own little database thingy. And I don't know if they have proof of work on it or whatever. And they're doing whatever they're doing and they're playing with it and figuring out if it is useful at all and paying people a bunch of money to tell them it's useful or whatever they're doing. It could be useful, but I have no idea. OK, that's one thing. But they have no use for either the tradable token that everyone's buying and selling on the exchanges. Has absolutely nothing to do with it. That's a separate thing. So whenever I see like a picture on Twitter like Ethereum, this is what the big companies want, Microsoft, Wall Street, R3, Ethereum, that's not the tradable token guys, that's not it. It's not it. That is just the programming language and they're doing experiments with it. Oh yeah, but they could connect the private chain with the public chain in the future. That's positive for Bitcoin and Ethereum. I don't know guys. I'm pretty skeptical about that. I mean, maybe I'm wrong. But is that really, OK, first of all, OK, how are they going to do it? I mean, I haven't seen anyone say, yeah, you connect the private with the public chain and then you do the, I don't know. It doesn't really make sense to me right now, but hey, if you're technical and you want to show me an example, I'm all ears. I'm really open to it. And then, oh yeah, this is positive for Bitcoin too because they're using private chain, not really. I mean, they're just, they don't even know what the hell's going on. They're just like, give me one of everything because I don't know what's going on. So give me that. It sounds good. I have money. So I'll just pay you. So just give me one of these Ethereum's and give me, let's just look at this like cloud thing. Like we're soft cloud or Amazon cloud or I don't even know, I get it all mixed up now. But they, if you look at the list, they have Ethereum, they have ares, which is like Ethereum too. They have BitPay, they have CoinPrizm. So they just have like all this stuff. So it's like you buy a VPS and you say, oh, I want to do like a Ethereum VPS. I want to do like a CoinPrizm VPS. I want to do like a BitPay and have like a node or something and you can do all that. So it's, I don't know, it just, I don't see, it doesn't matter really. If people think that's relevant, then it is relevant. It's just about the perception. And that's why the price, one reason why the price is going up. So I hope people know how to trade both ways because what goes up has to come down. I think we're all going to get trolled really badly on this, but there is a possibility that we're right that we are in a hype cycle of Ethereum and that we really don't know the value of this token. But boy, are we going to find out both things? Gabriel, divine. I have some comments definitely in response to some of the things that you guys have said here. But first of all, I realized that tone has nearly the same accent as rate Kurzweil. Are you from Brooklyn? He is. Yeah, yeah, I thought so. I just made the connection there because Kurzweil and you both have this very distinct accent. I'm from LA, so I can't always catch each burrow. Anyways, more important things than accents. I mean, first of all, the SEC comment you mentioned. You're talking about a United States financial organization. There's a very specific reason why Vitalik moved the company to Switzerland before the crowd sale. They have very specific digital equity laws that they took advantage of. So on the selling side, I don't think they have anything at all to worry about as far as the buyers. Maybe if I don't know how that works, I'm really not an expert at that. But I do know that in Switzerland, they had a cadre of lawyers before they did their crowd sale. So I'm not concerned about the Ethereum foundation being in trouble because of the crowd sale. Now you mentioned the team itself. And that is the reason why I've been pretty skeptical since the beginning. Vitalik is extremely young. As you mentioned, he doesn't know anything at all about economics and probably also nothing about game theory. And he, the proof of stake thing is definitely an issue. Ethereum has as its goal, we want to move away from proof of work because it's waste, wasteful. Obviously, you're actually crunching numbers. But because they think, because the competitive side, they think that the crunching isn't serving any purpose, but the competition and it's therefore wasteful, which is, you know, that's an opinion. Now to leap from that to say, we're going to make proof of stake work. Now for those listeners who don't know what that is, proof of stake is when, instead of the new, the newly created cryptocurrency being distributed to miners who are crunching numbers and get sort of paid for it with the currency, instead if you have a balance, then you get paid possibly in proportion to your balance. So I have one, Ether, you have two, each get, you know, 10% of our holdings or whatever it is. This has failed repeatedly in the altcoin space already and on a theoretical level too, has not really passed muster with experts in the field as far as I'm aware. I'm not saying it's impossible because I mean, I tend to think that anything that has digital, where you're making a digital scarcity paradigm, you're generally going to need something else that's also genuinely scarce in order to tie it to. But I totally could be wrong about that. We're definitely not there yet. And recently I heard Vene Gupta, who's an amazing thinker. I really just love, you know, Vene's whole vibe and he is the community manager for Ethereum for the foundation. He's got a job. They employ him. He does these incredible talks where he, you know, really made the tie between databases, networks of blockchains and, you know, show that, okay, we had databases, we had networks, but they didn't work together until we, until now we have the blockchain. But he has a very strong faith. They call it scalability in the Ethereum space. He has a very strong faith that will be able to switch to a proof of stake paradigm within two years. Now I don't know the details, but it seems very optimistic. If he's speaking from his gut, I'll speak from mine. My gut says, if we ever find it, it's going to take another generation. So PGP, Bitcoin, proof of stake, maybe, something like that. But that's just conjecture. Certainly these guys have this plan down the road. And that was one of the reasons why I also, I mean, as interesting, I've been following the Ethereum story since the start and found it totally fascinating to have a touring complete smart contract programming language built into the base level of the cryptocurrency is a really interesting idea. I love it, but this whole obsession with proof of stake seemed very unhealthy. And then this, what happened with the crowd sale, of course, was they rose at all during the peak of the Bitcoin bubble, 15 million, and held it 100% in Bitcoin, leaving them with 4 million at the end. And the same roadmap, though, and the same amount of development required. So then, of course, when the money ran out, some of the projects had to be left beside. And I just saw, wow, this guy has no experience running a business. He has no experience running a coding thing as intelligent as he is. This is a very risky bet. We're following it closely since then. And counterparty forked the Ethereum, a serpent smart contract coding language in a weekend. They're able to do nearly everything that Ethereum can on top of the Bitcoin blockchain, put it together in a few hours. So that's the danger of open source. As Theo pointed out, these companies are using serpent, which is undoubtedly a useful language. It doesn't have anything at all to do with the Ether token. On the Thomas' point about making the smart contracts expensive with the Ether coin, I don't necessarily buy into that with divisibility. I think it'll still be ridiculous and cheap, but it'll still make sense. But I don't see how it would make more sense to use Ethereum when you have a more secure blockchain with Bitcoin. However, that is the point that I'm really trying to figure out now, which is the internal versus external debate. In other words, the base layer of Bitcoin is just this, maybe you could call it a settlement layer, it's the pure P2P value transfer layer. And then counterparty or a smart contract platform would live on top of it. That would be an external system. Whereas the Ethereum network joins them together as an internal smart contract network. So I think that if there's some magical sauce that makes the internal smart contract system a way better, more efficient, something or other, then it's conceivable that Ethereum could grab a toehold in the industry. And tone, I believe you made some ill-informed comments about smart contracts. I think that the hype is way premature, but the potential of the smart contract software application is as big or bigger than the pure value transfer. It's enormously, it has so much potential to transform huge swaths of our society in totally unforeseeable ways. It's incredibly powerful. The conflict between the equality or legal contracts between people with human beings and ink on paper and smart contracts, it's a very important question that does not invalidate the potential of smart contracts just because there's going to be some conflict there. The main thing to keep in mind is smart contracts are at their most powerful and most accurately understood when you see them as a purely software and purely crypto-related phenomenon. For example, you have a totally cryptographically private, secure smart contract between two parties or two or more parties on a blockchain. Totally hashed, totally anonymous, it's sitting there and it's completely self-contained. This smart contract has certain inputs. Let's say the inputs are merely a clock, just a certain block size, whom something happens. The less you depend on the outside world for that smart contract, the more powerful it is. Those type of smart contracts are not going to, you can try to go to a court, but nobody's going to, it's not enforceable. That's where the power of the courts and the social government style contracts ends and the software smart contract begins. These self-contained software entities have extreme power. It's going to take several years before they're even used in a rudimentary way, I feel. Other than just really, really basic ones in counterparty and hemotherium, sort of for testing and for smaller amounts, but the potential is huge. Those questions about the conflict between legal contracts and smart contracts will be raised and they'll be dealt with. It will be a really interesting conflict. I'm sure that there will be a lot of overlap, too, and where you have overlap there, of course you'll have major problems. The way to connect a private blockchain and a public blockchain is merely to take a hash of the private blockchain state and pop it into one single very cheap transaction for one Satoshi, for example, in Bitcoin. There, you've connected it, it takes one. You mean the one transaction? One transaction, then. That's how you do it. That's what they mean. I'm assuming. That doesn't make any of their claims for actual business models anymore valid however. Yeah. Well, I still have to trust the private one, but yeah, whatever. Okay, you could connect it. Okay. Anyway, as a final way, I have something to say. I manage to write the entire world crypto network in three lines of serpent code. So just to show you the power of Ethereum with that, and we've bundled everything into smart contracts. I'll be releasing that on my GitHub tomorrow, and you can check it out. I'm just glad we had someone that's excited and interested in Ethereum on the show so that we can be fair and balanced, and we can tell all the critics. But we had that one guy who liked it. Okay. Yeah. Exactly. I don't say I like it. I mean, I'm very doubtful about the token. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This is obviously, it's a pair of our right. It's obviously a bubble. I mean, when it pops though, it might be worth it to grab some. I don't know. All right. Let me just jump right in there real quick. Just to comment on what Gabe said. All right. So Gabe, so I will agree with you. Will you set at the end about the actual smart contract? I agree with that. I actually do. I think there is a future of a smart contract. But I think it's years away. I mean, the entire contract, the mentality, I mean, look, Bitcoin has been around for seven years, and what? Maybe a fraction of 1% of the world population is comfortable with it. Maybe a fraction of 1%. Even somewhat understands what it is. I think smart contracts are still a long way away. And then we're talking, we have companies like BitNation that want to put government on the blockchain. I mean, that's a millennium away. I mean, we're talking like 100 plus years for something like that to be like people to be comfortable with. So we're long away. And again, my problem is not with the concept of what Ethereum is doing. My problem is the token, the pre-mind token, I mean, that they use to just like pay themselves. That's my problem. And the fact that it's like being run like a company, they have like what, COOs and marketing people. And this is why it's Bitcoin so long. It doesn't have any of that. There is nobody running it like a company. And clearly they have nobody there that understands finance, which is why they completely lost all that money they made in the crowd sale. And I have to disagree with you on the laws in Switzerland. I mean, they think they got around the law, but I look, Kim.com never even had a visa to come to the United States. Not to mention, set his foot in it. And they just showed up in New Zealand, put him in a helicopter and dragged him into the US and he'll probably end up spending a decent amount of time in the US jail. The United States doesn't give a shit about Switzerland. They don't care about their finance, their security laws. If they want to go after the Ethereum people, they'll go after the Ethereum people. It's, I don't buy that at all. And clearly they knew it was illegal. That's why they moved to Switzerland for the crowd sale to begin with. What does that tell you? I mean, the world doesn't notice? Oh, and somebody sent me a video of Gavin Wood admitting that he's now being investigated for what do you call being a money transmitter just because he sold Bitcoins on local Bitcoin and had people put that money into his bank account. I'm sorry, guys. Anyone that did that, look, I love Bitcoin. I want to spread Bitcoin. I want everyone to have it. I want everyone to understand what it is. It is a, it will be the only asset that cannot be confiscated. But if you acquire it the wrong way and the wrong way to acquire Bitcoin is by flashing who you are at any point during the transaction, I am a little worried for you, especially if you have a US passport. And just the mere fact that these guys were doing that and then they started Ethereum and they're public people. I mean, Satoshi is a mystery for a reason, not because he wants to be God, because he knows he would already be in prison. And nobody else seems to understand that. I mean, to them fame is more important. Look, we're all public figures as well. But if someone cannot trace a single Bitcoin transaction of mine to my identity with a digital signature, I would be impressed because I don't believe that's how it works. I don't know how Bitcoin was meant to be used. And anyone that's using it like that with a US passport especially needs to be real careful. I just, my honest opinion. We've got one more chance to get in trouble with the exit question. Exit question. The Ethereum rally has reached the top or will it continue? Tones. I'm going to say it's going to continue because every time I say it's the top is in it. It's imminent. It just triples. Ethereum is going to come very close to a Roraclion. I think it's going to just miss it. So look up the all-time high price for a Roraclion. I believe it was $100 on the dot. So I'm thinking Ethereum will go to about $99.90. Oh, man. I don't want to have to buy some. Theo, good. Tell us some news about Ethereum. OK, is it the top? No, it seems to be. There's plenty of buyers already here. And like I said, on the subreddits, you'll see people. I'm all in. Ethereum now. So whenever that gets all burned out and people are tired of, are finished, you know, changing their Bitcoin stash into Ethereum, then we might start to see it go down a little. But I don't know. It doesn't look like it right now. I thought today, maybe it's going to go down, but it didn't really go down that much. So let's see what happens. Now, OK, a Roraclion. Yeah, all right. I don't know what the volume was like on that and everything. That's nice. But, you know, I think the so-called consensus that I've gotten from the Ether subreddits is $10 is the target. But guys, you're setting the target way too low. What are you doing? I mean, you guys are supposed to be way better than Litecoin. Litecoin was $49 on BDCE. I mean, come on. You've got to top Litecoin in order to be legit. Well, and everyone, remember the lesson of Litecoin. We were all waiting for $50 to sell and we never hit it. So everybody who sold it, $48 made a fortune. Everyone who was holding for $50 made nothing. So don't get all set up on these round numbers. Sell when you feel like selling. I don't know or don't, whatever. Gabe, your opinion on the Ethereum price rise. Are you still with us? I think that somebody from the Ethereum subreddit has hacked Gabriel. So we will. That's correct. That's what that is what happened. That's what gets back. I'll just get back. I'll come out of my crazy hacker skills. The bubble is not over. I think we're headed up. And when it pops, I think we're going to be lower than we are today. What is the price right now anyways? It's about $6.00 a coin. Yeah, we're going to go higher and then we'll crash down much lower than today. Well, my, my, my. I have no idea. All I can tell you is do the opposite of whatever I do. Moving on, issue four. Worldwide economic collapse. Gabriel has fallen below $30 a barrel and gas stations in California are now selling gas for less than $2 a gallon. A site not seen since most of us were in grade school. The Dow has dropped hundreds of points multiple times this year following the Chinese stock market downwards. Gabriel, is this it total economic collapse or yet another boom and bust recession? I think it's the truth is somewhere between those two. And this is, I'm not an economist, you know, tones probably going to have more cogent analysis. But then again, he's a trader. Anything's day to day. I'm thinking more on the years level. Shift is a perma bear. So not really hit the thing is, you know, he's a perma bear. So yes, he's right. That those points when the market goes into a bear face. That's where we're at now. The cracks happened in August and we've been in a hold, we were in a holding pattern in the fall as, you know, people who wanted to delay things even more, tried to keep the can and supported markets and did as much as they could until they couldn't. And that's now this year so far. I think this is just the beginning of a massive financial crisis and panic. And I will say price collapses, not necessarily market collapses yet. The market collapses will in my prediction won't happen until the currency collapses. That's going to take a bit longer. I think tone was referring to that in the pre show conversation a little bit. This isn't the end, but I do feel that this is the beginning of the end for the current financial paradigm. It's going to take many years and this it'll be really great to see people turning to Bitcoin in just the next couple three, four years as the currencies around the world drop like flies. I think I'm very, very certain that this is the beginning of the end of the fractional reserve banking paradigm. It's going to take another, you know, maybe a couple that's short amount of decades. That's my prediction. Very dramatic tone, this. Can you guys hear me? Okay. So yeah, you're I gave, I am a trader, but I'm not a day trader for say and I am more, I do look out months and years out as well. I find Gitter Schiff really frustrating because of the permabare situation like you mentioned. I agree with the with with his analysis, but I usually disagree completely with his conclusions. And the fact that he talks about gold and then sells gold drives me nuts. I mean, I'm very very. The second tone, he has a gold company. He sells it. He makes a time. He's not selling his personal gold. He's got most of the savings in gold and so by that. So it's not like he's trying to get rid of gold. He has a gold broker. He buys it and he sells it for, you know, 0.5% more. That's not. No, that's fine. Right. If you're going to be a gold broker, be a gold broker, but he has such a he has a public profile that he's a market expert. Because as parties is gold is going to go up. So buy it from my from my. Oh, yeah. A huge conflict of interest. But also in his opinion about Bitcoin too, he's real anti Bitcoin. She I wonder why I mean Bitcoin. Right. He gold's lunch eventually. It will. And absolutely will. And I have presentations talking about why that is. So as far as the economy, I don't think this is the end. I do think there are a lot of problems to me. The problems begin and end with Europe. I think Europe is where the real problems are. And pretty soon when Europe actually collapses, it's just taken longer than expected. Well, the shankin zone is already out. The what? The shankin zone of the EU. The borders are closing. Austria just closes borders today. Oh, today I talked to them a month ago. No, I've been talking about that for six months. I mean, again, I hope there's videos of this. When I talked about Greek banks failing and shutting down and money confiscating like six months before that happened, Italy is next for me. Oh, no, the borders are done. I mean, the moment they opened it up to the migrant crisis, that's the final nail in their coffin. They're done. I think the Euro finally made its final high of 1.14 just the other day. And I think that's over. I think we're going to parity with the dollar. So here's the thing. I don't see the world collapsing like some people do. I mean, they would love it for gold. I do see major problems in Europe. And people in Europe still have money. Not everyone has been bitten by the socialist communist bug over there. So some people still have money. And that money will need to go somewhere. And every paper currency in the world is a complete disaster except one, except the US dollar. And it doesn't matter how much QE there is. It doesn't matter how much the Fed prints. The Fed is printing for the whole world. The Fed is not printing for America. When the Fed prints, it moves through the entire world. And they just can't print fast enough. I don't want them printing. I don't want them bailing out. But again, my views are very, very different than the standard person. I actually like fractional reserve lending. I think it's necessary. My problem is always government. I'm okay with fractional reserve lending. You want to create money out of ten to one out of finair and lend it to a business that you think can create jobs and have a good idea. Great. Do it. But guess what? Government doesn't create jobs. It only takes away jobs. All they do is consume. They don't produce. So the fact that government gets to create money out of finair for themselves is I think what's causing this giant mess. But the US dollar is still the strongest currency in the world. It will remain that way. I think it will only get stronger. The US economy will falter when the US dollar gets too strong. I don't know, maybe double its value from today. So I think the US stock market will do well. I think government bonds are going to do terrible. Now that the interest rates are going negative, who's going to want to invest in bond? Who's going to want to buy a bond? The S&P 500, I believe, is near the bottom. Once the S&P 500 turns around and starts to go up, we're going to see the S&P 500 go like Ethereum. That's going to be my new go-to asset now for parabolic and exponential rises. When the market starts to go up again, everyone's going to dump their bonds and put it in the market. I don't think this is the end. Another reason why I don't think this is the end is because there's too many people screaming at the end. In 2007, people were saying real estate prices were going to go to your rinky thing house of two bedrooms. It's going to be worth $3 million. It's when everyone starts screaming. It can only go up. That's when it goes down. It's just a scare. Stock market will define. Europe will collapse. The US government bonds will do poorly. Gold will probably, I don't think gold bottom yet. But I think the stock market will be fine. Oh, and we have a whole show for that. Catch us on the world crypto network. It's called Bitcoin Technical Analysis. But there might be some rebranding in the future. I don't want to give too much away here. I just want to say, Tony, you're totally wrong. You know the dollar is going to collapse tomorrow. Ladies and gentlemen, you can buy a world crypto network silver coin. Right now, you just send your 0.1 Bitcoin in. You can get your silver rounds because the world is going to collapse. You saw it in the title, ladies and gentlemen. WCN Silver is the way to go. The dollar is going to collapse. But yeah, that's the idea. Is there actually a branded silver coin for the world crypto network? No, unfortunately not. No, actually, because it... Yeah, I know. We could do that. No, actually, it is kind of funny because, okay, on the one hand, I totally agree with you. What this is what happens with... Maybe what is it say? A broken record sounds good once every 10 years or whatever. I mean, if I say every week on the Bitcoin group, the dollar is going to collapse. Well, I might be right sometimes, but most of the time I won't be. But if it just happens to be my business, it's tell you the dollar is going to collapse because you need to buy cool rocks that shine really cool that you can look at, then, you know, I might do that more often. So what I... But on the other hand, it's not that I'm against. You know, I'm... So this is my wallet. And in my wallet every day, I've got one ounce of silver, you know, with me. So I do carry silver with me. I guess I'm a gold bug or something, I guess. I don't know if that makes me a gold bug. You know, maybe I'm a little bit of a freak. You know, I got my survival card. I'm ready to go. I'm ready for the real collapse. I'm not any of this bullshit right now. This is nothing. This is just like playing, you know. We're not in collapse. This is just like fooling around. So I'm ready. So bring it, you know, if you're really ready for a collapse and, you know, you better bring it because I'm ready. And anyway, yeah, I think your tone brings on some good points. I guess he's kind of convinced me a little, but yeah, if you look at the charts and you just don't listen to all the hype, yeah, S&P could really bounce here. And you know, Europe looks pretty crappy. The X is going to really major lows, which is the German stock market. And that represents a lot of the economy because that's the biggest economy. So I don't know. Let's see what happens as far as gold and silver. I still think I think I'm more optimistic than tone, although I am kind of hesitant because we didn't get triple digit, you know. So it's kind of like kind of need to visit dip your toe in that water. But I don't know. I think maybe people are panicked enough just to buy it, you know, at this point. Host Thomas, what's the question? I still think the phrase of the day is it's going to go up like Ethereum. I like that. It's going to go up like Ethereum. It could go up like Ethereum, S&P. I'm hesitant about that, but I like a short-term bounce definitely. And definitely contrary and what, you know, all the panic is everyone saying, but yeah, and the European side looks pretty bad and you have the opposite in the media. It's not so bad. It's not so bad. Everything is pretty good. I do think we're running out of time. So let's move to the exit question. On a scale of 1 to 10, with 1 meaning zip, zero, but kiss, and 10 being absolute, metaphysical, catastrophe. How bad is the current economic situation Gabriel? Five. Tone. I'm going to split Gabe's answer in the US. It's like a two and in Europe, it's like an eight and Asia's in between. Wow. Google did a great job on this new Hangouts. It's broken twice for me this show. Tone, did we get a number from you? Can you guys hear me now? Yeah, go ahead. I guess my mute never turned off. Can you guys hear me or not? Yes. Yes, we can. It's so, so, so, my mute. Okay, this is weird. Anyway, I'm going to split Gabe's answer. It's a disaster in Europe, so I give it an eight. It's okay in the US, so I give it a two and I'll put Asia in between. So like a five. There's a lot of numbers. See you good, man. Well, it was about what I'm willing to give up, right? And you know, in the optimal world, of course, zero would be what I would like to give up. But of course, you know, everyone has to compromise. So one or two is possible. The correct answer is four. The correct answer is four. Moving on to predictions or story of the week. Gabriel, do you have a prediction or a story of the week? Yes. My story of the week is that I read a medium post about Bitcoin consensus and among the developers, it sounds like the tone of the debate between the Bitcoin core and the Bitcoin classic people who want to have a hard fork and move straight to two megabyte and also some sort of democratic software thing that isn't well defined. The medium post I read, I'm trying to remember who wrote it, but it talked about sort of the roadmap and how actually the two sides are hard to leave and that far from each other at this point. And that they, the core developers actually do want to move to two megabyte eventually, as long as it's done in a clear way that they can get consensus for. So my word of the week is anti-fragile. It's very clear to me that all this drama has merely crystallized and clarified the mission of the Bitcoin ecosystem in moving forward with a secure platform, anti-fragile. Tom Vays. So my, I guess my long, I don't have anything short term. So my longer term prediction is that governments are going to start to see Bitcoin as being hostile because now we have all these other projects like Ethereum, like R3-7 that are pushing, trying to push Bitcoin out because of its, I guess, bad image. And people even on Twitter are like sneaking into the tweets when I was debating them over Ethereum and they're like, oh, Ethereum tokens don't come with the stigma of the Bitcoin tokens. So again, the whole system is turning political and I think there's going to be like a way, a sudden wave of why Bitcoin is bad and there's going to be attempts at legislation against Bitcoin. And of course, it's not going to work because if it worked, Bitcoin would or the speculation would already drive Bitcoin price down to the ground. It was created to be censorship resistant and I welcome the challenge. So let's put it that way and I see this battle coming towards the middle or end of the year. Theo, good man. I've got of course a combo, story and prediction of the week. And that would, the story of the week that you might not think is Bitcoin related is that draft kings bought counter move and counter move is the MMA fantasy equivalent to draft kings. Now draft kings has had at the end of the football season trouble with their payment processor that said they're not going to service any more fantasy players. And draft kings is still expanding. So I don't know, I think that's a good move. And my prediction related to that is that someone in that fantasy space, whether it's their competitor, draft dual or any of the other, maybe there are some smaller ones in that space that one of them in the near future is going to get on the Bitcoin train because they're going to have trouble with their payment processors and it's going to have to do with what some of everyone has said about freedom of speech and all that kind of stuff and you know, red arb for life and so on. Very good and now instead of a prediction, a statement. I'm very proud of how the Bitcoin community behave this week and we ask you to help our friend Chris Ellis. We started out with no money and as you know, Chris, he doesn't want to ask for help and we ended up with a lot of money and a real fighting chance to find out what's wrong with Chris and get it fixed. And it's all because of you and I thank you. And we're still accepting donations over at save Ellis dot org. If you want a good scan the QR code right now or you could just visit save Ellis dot org and this is a great thing to help our friend. We raised $4,483.23 about a couple of donations coming in still recently. It doesn't have to be a large donation. It could be a small donation every little bit helps and I just I really appreciate everyone chipping in to help out Chris. It's very, really nice. And that's about it. We went on very long today but thanks everyone for sticking with us and we're out of time until next time. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.