The Bitcoin Group, the American Original. For over the last 10 seconds, the sharpest Satoshi's, the best Bitcoin's, the hardest cryptocurrency talk. We'd like to welcome our panelists, Blake Anderson from Facebook.com slash Got Blake. Hi everybody, thanks for having me. My name is Don Vaze from Brave New Coin. Hi everyone, coming to you live from a very rainy Phoenix, Arizona. Theo Goodman from Transmission.rocks. Hello Internet. And I'm Thomas Hunt from the World Crypto Network, moving on to issue one. Bit Reserve rebrands as uphold says goodbye to Bitcoin. Bit Reserve, the website where you could previously send gold, silver, USD, platinum around the web with no fees thanks to the Bitcoin network, is no more. The company announced Monday that it would be changing its name to uphold, charging a 4% fee to move your money around and felt the need to kick Bitcoin on the way out. Although they had used Bitcoin to launch in their early days, the CEO and founder both had negative things to say about Bitcoin, calling it to value a rounding error and saying that the fledgling cryptocurrency would be dead in five years. Blake Anderson, your thoughts on the end of Bit Reserve. The end of Bit Reserve, you know, I think that things could have been handled differently relative to divorcing Bitcoin. Seems like they didn't really take the kids into consideration and maybe we're arguing in front of the kids more than they should have. I think that people are trying to pivot and do something that works as far as is uphold going to take hold. I don't really like the name versus the competitor like Transferwise who has the bag, Richard Branson who has infinite money. It just doesn't seem like a place where it's right for disruption and there's not going to be an insurmountable amount of competition. So between the area they're going into to compete with with a new name, when people have like Richard Branson behind their stuff, which really gives people a warm, secure feeling, doesn't seem good. And then to leave droppings upon the Bitcoin community after they were birthed here, it's really kind of like going to a party and having a real fun time and then slamming the glass out of the door as you leave. It's not the classiest thing to do. All right, so this is actually interesting because good thing I read on this a little bit. So they're not actually dumping Bitcoin at all. So that is an extremely misleading headline and article. What they're doing is kind of similar to what Change Tip did is in they're just adding other things besides Bitcoin to purchase this stuff. Now having said that, I honestly have not heard of BitRazr much or at all until today. So I have like a million questions right now going through my head. So at first when I thought that they actually dumped Bitcoin, I'm like, oh, this kind of makes sense because it, I mean, how much of volume can they possibly make with Bitcoin? And now they're pivoting into something that people will actually use like a lot of companies do. But then what are they really doing? They're not innovating anything. They're allowing people to buy precious metals and they're just moving these precious metals around. I think we have a blueprint for that. It was called Ego that didn't work out too well. There are also some others. So I really don't understand it. And then as I'm reading the articles, it says that they have transacted over 400 million in Bitcoin since the end of 2014. So unless in a year, they've had 400 million volume. I'm sorry, that's just, I don't believe that for like, I don't even believe a fraction of that. Is that sounding artificial to you, Tony? Does that sound artificial? It sounds like it sounds similar to some of the Bitcoin exchanges, right? Yeah, just a little, right? So if I was making that kind of volume, I would be the opposite of going to Fiat, right? I would just like milk it for everything I can get. So I honestly don't, I mean, I understand the basis of it, but then the more I read into it, the more I don't have, I don't understand what's going on with that company or what they're really doing or what value they're creating. I don't have the article up, but Thomas, can you read the last line in that article? There is a quote from one of the, one of the owners of the CEO, whatever. I believe the juicy quotes were from a different article, Thomas. No, no, that article, that article that Thomas pulled up, that there's a quote at the very end. I've got it loading, let me see. Oh, okay, here we go. Let's see, it says, our mission is to make it easy and frictionless for anyone, anywhere, to move, convert, hold and transact in any form of money or commodity, securely, instantly and free. So that's how like anything else that article had said, right? They're going into a fiat system. They're about to use credit cards. They're going to have insane AML KYC on top of that and they're charging you fees. Four percent. Yeah, the entire, I mean, everything is just like every sentence you read is just contradicting everything else that you read. The final quote is completely antithetical to the entire piece of information laid out before with that four percent. I think you might be right. That seems pretty contradictory. Also, the previous advantage of this company was that they were using Bitcoin on the back end. So it was going to be inexpensive for them to do these transactions and that they were going to fulfill the Goldbugs dream of holding gold and spending gold as Bitcoin. And the idea was you could take these gold tickets, send them out as Bitcoin for free and they would cover the conversion costs. But when they flipped this switch, I went over there to get my 20 bucks back and for each little account of gold, silver, platinum, I'd put my $5 in, they charged me 4% to get it out. Whereas if I had done it the day before, I think it would be free. And it's just that's changing the rules on your customers like that. I don't only have $20 in there, but still it's so crazy. I don't know how they expect any kind of brand loyalty, any kind of like customer appreciation. This is a real negative move they've done after using Bitcoin for a year or whatever to get off the ground. As it says in the article, they're like, we had to bootstrap with Bitcoin early on and then on the way out, we decided to dump on them. It's like, what? Exactly. And we've told them brought up change tip and change tip also expand in their usability to get more utility and stuff like that. But they never at any point said anything negative at all about Bitcoin. It's like, fair enough, fair enough. To actively say things like, you know, Bitcoin could be dead in five years or Bitcoin's entire value proposition is a rounding error. It's like, excuse me. It is just one last comment. I mean, I think what they're realizing is what all the remittance companies are going to realize. Most of the things don't make sense right now with Bitcoin. They just don't. Like, why? Like, I've always been, God, I don't know how many people are going to listen to this. I've never from day one that I think that remittance is what's going to take Bitcoin to the next level. I've never even considered that because you still have to go to Fiat. I like Bitcoin only makes sense if you're willing not to go back and forth to Fiat. If you're going to go back and forth to Fiat, Bitcoin is like not even close to your best option. And if you add gold and that, it's even worse. If you're going from Bitcoin back and forth to Fiat, it's going to be worse. Bitcoin, Bitcoin, Fiat gold. I think the triple transfer is great. I mean, it leads up a lot of my money, but I feel good when I'm doing it. Anyway, I'm done with this one. Go ahead, Theo. I'll see your comments. Okay, great. Well, a lot of the way it's been described, I will admit that I believe that BitReserve did hold physical assets to back up what you had. But a lot of the way it's described, it kind of reminds me of Ripple a little bit because you're supposed to be able to do all this in Ripple. It doesn't matter if it's dollar, Euro, or gold, or whatever. You can do all that. So a lot of that kind of sounds very similar to what Ripple is doing. They had some issues with KYC and AML and other things too. They got Ripple. So, that's one thing. The other thing is that, yeah, BitReserve already made these comments a while back a few months ago on their blog. And then I think they edited the blog or they got, they kind of backtracked a little and wanted to explain it. We didn't really mean it, guys, kind of thing. But they did have some point. They basically were saying is that in a lot of emerging technologies in the past, and I think we've talked about it on World Crypto Network before there's this period where there's the idealists and this kind of people and they go into it and they're really way too early. There's a really big gap between that. And they were basically saying, this is going to be this big gap. This is just going to die and then something else is going to come. Not that I agree or disagree or whatever, but that's kind of what they were trying to say, but they didn't really articulate it in the nicest way the first time on their blog. Let's say that. And as far as gold and Bitcoin and all that, I like how Valtoro is doing it. So, shout out to Valtoro, check that out. Good point, CEO. Valtoro is sticking with Bitcoin at this point. A big question, changing the name and abandoning Bitcoin. A good idea long term? Yes or no? Blake Anderson. Changing your name with all the financial services and offerings available right now is it's a terrible, terrible idea. I mean, like when MasterCoin and the Foundation changed to Omni, I mean, I support that product and stuff, but even then I was like, why would you do that? So, I mean, not good at my opinion. And I have never even heard of that name change. Tone vase. Honestly, I don't, I'm not a marketing guy. So I don't know if name changing is good. All I know is that it's happening quite often. And I guess you have to be part of a company that did a rebranding to really answer the question. I'm going to plead a fifth on this one. I'm not going to speculate. I wasn't happy when Darkcoin changed the dash. I kind of don't like the fact that every company in a Bitcoin space is the word bit or coin in it. And I, and I, and I, and I, and I work for one of those as well, right? And, but look, you get your shit together and name the company right from the beginning, right? If you don't know what the hell you're going to do in six or nine bugs, I really don't have no interest in that company at all. I mean, like, take for example, you said that you're not like big into marketing. What would you think if I changed my name? And then extrapolate to the company. I don't know. Technically, you know, and again, right? I shouldn't be the one to speak. People still freak out when they find out tone isn't actually my legal name. But let me just stop there. Tell them all. Yeah. Theo, good. I mean, I get it. And I'm going to pretty much agree with tone. I'm pretty sure that somebody, some, and I don't know their investors, but some in investor or someone in the company said, okay, we have this bit in our name that's uncool. Now it was cool two years ago. Now it's uncool. Now we've got to switch it up, you know, and maybe this is going to start the new trend of single, let's see, uphold. Well, I don't know. It doesn't really matter if it's in a company called sting. No, yeah. Well, I was going to think if it's going to start a trend of verbs or nouns, but it doesn't really matter single English words, nonplural words, instead of single English words with double consonants on the end or this kind of like weird things like that or kind of like slightly misspelled words is the new startup trend. You know, this is the kind of thing that I mean, you can pronounce them, but they're kind of cool. You know, so X or Y and Z and there somewhere completely. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. So now we're going to do the new trend is just uphold. Something really strange because we couldn't get the dot com. Let me, let me, let me see a lot of statement in there. Like I just to piss off a lot of these companies, I continue to refer to them by their original name. Like I don't stop. Every time I see a tour of Kluas, I still refer to his company as digital tangible. Even though they have nothing to do with, with like gold anymore, like I still call it a master coin. Yeah. I don't stop. I still call it dark coin. Like, I get you should to get a good beginning where I'm going to piss you off the rest of your life. I totally agree. Do you really know anyone that says dash when they refer to dark coin? Do you really know anyone that says thawney when they started saying, when they started saying talking about master coin, they said, oh yeah, I'm going to release an asset. I said on Omni. Exactly. And these people have seen Scarface. It's like everybody's seen Scarface. You've got two things in this world. You've got your word and you've got your balls. You don't break either for anybody in your name and your word are pretty intimately tied together. When you go ahead and change your name, people are like, wow. Okay. So I think I think I'm going to have to change Anthony legally to tone because that's how everybody knows me now. But we had a binary question. The host asks us a binary question. Yes or no? Is it good or bad? We have to answer the question. I think that it's probably, I think, and I'm going to speculate, I think a lot of this has to do with the scenario. We're a startup. We've existed two years. A big company didn't buy us yet. Oh no, we better change our name. So this will increase their chances of getting bought maybe because it doesn't have bit. No more bit, no more coin. Moving on to issue two. Block stream announces liquid. Block stream announces this week the very first side chain liquid, a dollar peg liquidity pool allows exchanges and major traders to transfer funds instantly on the side chain without having to wait for Bitcoin transfers to be confirmed. Tone Vaze, what do you think about this latest announcement from the Bitcoin developer filled block stream? All right. So in the short answer is, I think this is awesome. Now the long answer is, I don't exactly know how they're going to do it. I don't really know the details. But from what I've read and a little bit of what I've spoken to to somebody from block stream because I was really curious, this actually answers a big question that I had. When I was moderating a panel in Hong Kong back in May, the panel was called Bitcoin exchanges, past, present, and future, on that panel was a Bobby Lee, the CEO of VTC China, which is one of the companies mentioned in that article as being part of their first product. And the question that I raced at a panel went like this. I personally, I'm a trader, I understand markets. And one of my biggest, I guess, pet peeves in the Bitcoin space has been that these Bitcoin exchanges are both exchanges and brokers. Because in the financial world, you have exchanges like New York Stock Exchange, NASDAQ, and then you have brokers like think or swim, interactive brokers, options express, a merit trade, you can go on and on and on. So a stock like Apple pretty much trades only on a NASDAQ exchange, a stock like IBM only trades on the New York Stock Exchange. I think, I don't even know, but it doesn't matter. The point is that none of these brokers are fighting for liquidity. They're access the same pool of liquidity. These brokers own some of the shares in order to provide short positions to some of the people using those brokerages, things like that. But they compete on tools, speed of execution, platforms, fees, things like that. But in the Bitcoin space, liquidity is completely separated. So the question that I asked is, how can these exchanges share liquidity? I understand that one pool of liquidity is incredibly dangerous. It becomes like a giant honey pot of all the bitcoins, like worse than my own gots. But how can these exchanges share liquidity? And I think with this product, liquid, I think blockchain is going right to the heart of it. Now, people are going to speculate that this allows the exchanges to collude with each other and all this other nonsense. But and then people are like, oh, this is great. I can now transfer quickly, instantly as a as a trader between these exchanges. No, that's also ridiculous, right? That's not that's not what it's for. If you're dependent on instantaneous transfer of your bitcoins from BitFinex to VTC China, you're doing something wrong, right? If you need that kind of speed to go from one exchange to another, that means you have enough bitcoins to put them on both exchanges. Here is what it comes down to. The next time there is a big margin call on BitFinex because too many idiots are leveraged into one direction. And the price starts to crash because they're blowing through their order book. They can instantly leverage bitcoins and liquidity from these other exchanges in this private trusted sidechain. Or it may or may not be a sidechain. I don't know about the technical definitions. Again, I'm not on that level of technicalities. I'm a finance guy. I'm somewhat technologically inclined to a massive financial engineering, but I hate coding. There's material semantic considerations here where you're saying the way it comes to be is going to be important. Right. I don't know how the goodnight implemented, right? I hope it's a great job. But the point is we need efficient markets. And right now, arbitrageers are not what's going to make the Bitcoin price efficient. What we need is for, if one exchange, the price and just one exchange starts to go way up or way down, whether it's a panic or a margin calls or one big guy wants to buy 8 million dollars worth of Bitcoin and he's not going to spread it amongst a bunch of exchanges. He's just going to go to one of them and he's going to put it a giant market order and blow through the book. So that exchange needs to instantaneously access a pool of liquidity. And because it's so dangerous to just have all the Bitcoin sit in one area, this is great. It will allow instantaneous transfers and maybe that exchange can instantly see the order books of other exchanges in their trusted circle. And then they liquidate or buy from those other exchanges instantaneously for their users of their exchange. And then they settle at the end of the day at the end of the week onto the blockchain itself. So I honestly think this is great and much needed. I've heard complete arguments in the opposite of what I'm saying. Theo Goodman. I asked I think it's really good. Actually what's described, what tone described and what liquidity little bit is describing and already goes on. There already is liquidity sharing amongst the exchanges. So there is also, for example, AlphaPoint is a company and they will help you pool liquidity. So if you're a new exchange, you can get more orders and get some more volume, etc. So that's already happening. There's even more than one service that offers this. What liquidity sounds is something a little bit similar as tone described. And I think it's really good. I think that it's good that this side chain technology is being developed. And I think it's good that the first thing has to do with exchanges, buying and selling, trading, etc. Because that is what the beginning of a lot of this stuff usually is. It's trading and things like that. And that's going to provide a backbone for everything else. Because you're going to need that kind of in and out trading, etc. In order to build upon. So I think that's really good. And yeah, I think that's all I have to say. I think that, like I said, this is already happening, sharing liquidity. I know what I wanted to say is that sharing liquidity is already going on. And even if the block stream side chain works, that's great. But the exchanges themselves, they need to work too. Because if an exchange has a mega dump because everyone is pressing the button twice and they're not supposed to press it twice and they go long short, long short, long short, where they thought they were closing, then that's going to cause a problem even if we have all these high tech side chains. But to give credit, the exchanges are getting better, you know, little by little. They've gotten a lot better. They are improving. They every time there's some mess up crash or even hack. They do, they have really improved a whole lot this year. So I think that's going to continue. I think we'd also have a problem with one of the exchanges had two trading bots trading against each other, driving the price up. That's not, well, you know, we're going to get into it. Yeah, we're going to get into why the price is going up. We'll save that. Very good. All right, Blake Anderson, your thoughts on the liquid side chain? Well, yeah, very, very exciting to see work in this direction. I actually sent Austin Hill a direct message on Twitter. I was like, wait a go. I'm excited to see that that's where you guys are headed towards in that direction. I was disappointed after being so excited about 21's hardware release. It looks like hopefully we'll be able to be excited and not disappointed when the implementation of this side chain comes out. But I mean, it's really up in the air. I am. It's very, very, very happy about the ability to have more efficient and robust price discovery make it so that we don't have to rely on single unit small arbitrage movement to do price discovery and price balancing. And that's, you know, that's not good efficiency. That's almost like trying to dial back our markets to like a barter. That's not super efficient. You need to grease this kids of commerce. So depending on like if it's a secure implementation, if it's, you know, as close to hardware as they can get, there's, you know, keys swirling around being traded in multi-stig instead of raw transactions like the more transparent, it can be the more robust and stable and scalable the more exciting it is. But even if it's not done super well, even if it's just a copy of something like Tether, which used to be real coin, I'll take a page from tone there and call it real coin. If it's just a competitor with them, that'll be good. I hope to see some real invention, not just simply innovation, but hopefully some radically new technologies they can bring to really assist in market price discovery. And then eventually, you know, more naturalized discover of interest rates and time preference in Bitcoin, the direction they're going in is going to open up the economics of Bitcoin to many, many more things and really, really help to have it compete with legacy systems. So I'm excited about that. Exit question, what's your favorite Bitcoin USD option? Tether, liquid, coin-apult locks or storing USD on Coinbase, tone-base. I got it on me. No, yeah, none of the above. I don't use any of them. And look, I think there's a, you have to keep money and you have to keep USD in the bank to pay your bills, but other than that, try to have as much physical cash and Bitcoin and maybe some physical gold and silver. I mean, everything else is just use it, use it, transfer it. I don't trust any of them. I'll be honest with you. So I'm going to go with none of the above. Well said, Theo Goodman. I agree. Blake Anderson. This is the way to go. Here you go. I mean, Tether's not bad, but I mean, we'll see if leaps and bounds can be made from what they've achieved. I'm interested in the idea behind these dollar backed coins, but I'm not sure that we've gotten to the right one yet. Yeah, but again, Tether's not bad, but I don't trust the regulatory environment, right? Who's to say that? I don't know. One of these days, you're not, you're going to realize that all your Theta has been confiscated, right? By the federal government. That's so, it's, you got to have to get a crap. You got to be a gold earlier. It does seem like people are building a series of centralized institutions that could be easily rated by pick any government. So I prefer new bits or even a bit dollar to those other systems and they're not backed. They're not exactly backed by physical dollar. It's just a kind of, it's kind of complicated, but I think I prefer those systems actually. I think Ripple and Stellar are also supposed to have some dollar backed type options, but I just think we haven't found the right one yet. But we're going to continue looking for it because it's obviously something people want. Moving on to the plug. Gem and BitGive, partner with Perse to provide charitable donations. Did you know you can donate to charity the next time you shop on Amazon by shopping at Perse.io. Just check the box and we'll donate 1% of your purchase to charity. Thanks to Gem and BitGive. Moving on, issue three. Bitcoin price breaks 260. The Bitcoin price is at a two month high thanks to a surge in Chinese trading volume and weakness in the US dollar. Theories differ about the reason for the price rise with some saying it's false trading traffic due to a Russian Ponzi scheme. Well, other say it's China's possible devaluation of the yuan that has touched a nerve in China, sending off a buying frenzy. Theo Goodman, why is the price of Bitcoin up? Well, the price is up because people bought it and then it went up. Now, I'm just to be honest, you know, Bitcoin has consolidated a lot. It went sideways for a long time. And recently there has been some changes in the exchanges. So let me see if I can go through them. First, okay, coin.com said no more deposits from US customers. You might think, well, why does that matter? Well, that matters because of volume distribution amongst the exchanges because that means, okay, that means some people are going to be. Plus, and before that, there were DDoSs at, okay, coin and so on when it was above 300. And then there's been lately some more action in the regulatory area, different exchanges getting notes. And that just means that some people are shifting the volume here and there. And that does affect the price too, I think, because of the volume. And speaking of volume, BitStamp has increased in volume a lot. Now, because what the tone was talking about, there was a big crash and a lot of people were really upset with BitFinex and some people moved ever to BitStamp. But what we've noticed is there's the mysterious volumizer. That's what it's been called. That's kind of like the willy bot, but it's for volume. So imagine, if suddenly on the one minute chart, there's a bunch of volume, but the price doesn't move. How is that possible? So there's been some kind of questionable things going on. It's kind of like the Loch Ness monster of Bitcoin. And you know, you can spot it and there have been spots and there is even a gif going around of it being spotted on the chart's live. And why is that important? Well, typically when there's a lot of volume, then the price moves in one direction. So when there's, you know, that or the volume increases and then after that, the price moves in a direction. So that's why, and we have seen it increase in volume. So maybe that's one reason why the price has gone up. The other reason is, well, after the whole BitFinex thing, there was a lot of attempts to sell off. And it just didn't work. And so, well, then what happens when the sell-offs don't work? Well, then the price goes up and then we'll try to break, you know, 260 and 300 again and we'll see what happens. Then it probably will just go down again. Blake Anderson. I mean, it's definitely some kind of a obscure Russian Ponzi scheme that's pushing the price up. I mean, that's like me and my boy Acha, over here with his razor, I'm like, boom, gotta be a Russian Ponzi scheme. There's no other explanation. I don't even want to hear any other evidence because that's in-controvertedly what it is. I don't know if that's as likely as the various information around. Okay, the Winkleboss twins are going to get more and more Western backing and, you know, KM, AYLC, know your customer anti-money laundering, all that good stuff. And then there's going to be more and more Western market involvement in Bitcoin. You have the Patrick Burn, 10 million asset exchange using blockchain technology, which is another huge signal to everybody that this stuff is coming to replace infrastructure. The other stuff, I think that that is a big area where the money is coming from. This is not like a massively traded thing that there's all kinds of people and their weird reasons, manifest at weird times. There are a specific group of very intelligent investors that are buying in and playing up and down Bitcoin. And when they hear about specific news about large institutional investment coming in, I believe that that has a much larger effect on the price than any kind of Ponzi scheme would. Toned Vaze. Still remuted again, 10. Okay, it also muted a lot of my cursing right after you said I was muted. So, let's dismiss a Russian Ponzi scheme out of South Africa from the start. That's just ridiculous. I'm sorry. No way, Ton, come on. We got to explore this for a long time. I don't know if anyone's read anything recently about South Africa. The last thing they probably care about is Bitcoin, probably just want to stay alive over there. But now, as far as the volume goes, I never trusted Chinese volume. My suspicion has always been, unlike the Willy Bot that was fake trading to bring the price up. My suspicion has been with several of the Chinese exchanges that they're just like fake volume trading with each other without any, I guess, interest in bringing the price up or down. It's more like a status symbol. We have the biggest volume. It's all about how you look and not about what's really happening. The two of the exchanges now start doing that between each other because they got tired of just doing it independently. I don't know, maybe. Another explanation is I heard that China was on a holiday for a while and it's just volume coming back. Maybe they're going to devalue the currency again. I mean, honestly, I think if China just floated their currency, it would actually devalue it all on its own. I'm surprised why they don't. I'm surprised, but they don't just float their Chinese yuan because now every time, if they do another 2%, 5%, whatever they do, artificial decrease in the price of their currency, then all the US financials, or all the people in the US start screaming, China is destroying the world. They're not doing free market. But if China just said that, they're going to go... They pay to our values, so they're at war with us. I think China is doing the world a favor by devaluing their currency slowly because I think if they actually floated it would devalue faster. I don't know if people have noticed, but China is on a bit of a decline at the moment and it's even a faster decline than Western Europe. Now, I believe China has a much brighter future in the near future, but anyway, I'm getting off topic. So as far as the price, it was time for it to go up. Now, the main... I've always been critical of the late August price drop, and I personally blamed it on Bitcoin XT, and I got a lot of flak for that. But I didn't get on the bandwagon blaming it on Bitcoin XT. I was doing it from the beginning. The moment the price started to fall below, I think 260, I said, whoa, Bitcoin XT is about to wreck some havoc. Because trading and it's all speculation, it's all confidence. We did this session for Bitcoin XT. I made my feelings pretty clear. When that got released, just confidence was just shattered. Buyers pulled their bids, some people sold, people were over leveraged long, and the price fell. Bitcoin XT is completely dead, but the problem hasn't been solved. The block size debate has not been solved. I've been waiting for it. I was at the scaling Bitcoin event. I was expecting them to announce something by now, but they haven't. Clearly, Bitcoin XT wasn't critical, and things were not going to be a disaster. Like Mike Hurn was talking about. Things are calm, so confidence is coming back to the market. Now, until I actually hear how they're going to resolve the scaling issue, and even probably doubling of the block size early next year to give them some more time, until that's announced, I'm not going to go full bullish on Bitcoin, but it's just coming back to where it should have been prior to the whole XT debacle. I think it's a little overboard at the moment. I'm looking forward to come back down a bit, and then I think the future is pretty bright, but don't expect a thousand by end of year. I'll tell you that much right now. So you're thinking that the next move in the block size debate will not be to adopt eight-med blocks, as was proposed by the Chinese mining community? Not as ridiculous. I don't even think they proposed eight blocks. I wanted to split response because it was a lucky number in China, but still, it seems like a number to go off of. It sounds like it's a lucky number. Yeah, this is my opinion of how it happened. So when they proposed 20 megs, people, especially in China, said, this is completely ridiculous. You have zero chance of that happening. Then they go through and say, how much would you be okay with? Then the answer they probably got was, I guess eight would be okay. Then everyone starts screaming that Chinese want eight. I think it's ridiculous. It's ridiculous. It's like saying seven. Seven seven. It's like in Vegas, you're doing a million. It's kind of like when you're in China or any third world country and some guy comes up to you selling jewelry and you ask him how much and he says $20. Then you want to counter that. The smart way to counter it is to look at what the half price is and then go a little lower than that. If someone came up to you with jewelry, if I was in China asking you to pay them $20, I would say, now that's too much. I ask you how much you want to pay. I would say, I guess I would pay eight. If they immediately start screaming sold, you got it for eight. I'm like, damn it. I'm over paid. I agree with your strategy. What you need to do is as soon as they announce their price and ask you how much, just start walking away. Then when they chase after you, then you can name your price six or seven or something like that. Then you've got it. I agree with you. Sadly, the reason the Bitcoin price went down is because I had to sell something to pay them. This is my phone. That's why it went up. It went up because I sold a little bit. So, exit question unannounced. What's the price of Bitcoin this time next week? Forced prediction. Blake Anderson, give us a number. This time next week, I'm just going to have to say between 260 and 270, I'm going to take a real big risk there. Toned. I typically can't answer the question because I have a trader's newsletter with a pay wall, so it wouldn't be right. Can't do it. Read the newsletter. Theo Goodman. Well, like we were discussing before, it depends on what exchange because we have a lot of this here. It's really going to be different. I think, let's see, I've got another screen I've been here. This time next week, I think that 272, 25 at a bit for next. I'm going to switch my guess to the exact same as Theo's. Thomas, are you trying to say a little property? No, Thomas is my cousin. Okay, sorry. Okay, great. Yeah, 272, 25, I'm predicting it live. I was going to go 275. Moving on to issue four. If my computer will run, if my Wi-Fi will work, issue four. New York City based hedge fund, click. Transfer is $10 million using blockchain Bitcoin technology and overstock.com founder Patrick Burns T0 instant settlement technology. T0 allows for stock transactions to be done in a single day rather than the Wall Street standard of three days. Click's move is being called the first real bond trade done with the blockchain. What is the significance of this $10 million T0 transaction? I ask you, Blake Anderson. I think it's a real signal of confidence in the new systems by big, big players. So, before we're referencing people being excited about Western money being able to move through, this is one of those times, one of those situations where it's in illustration of a use case where large amounts of money can be transferred and stored and kept track of through the blockchain. Settlement is faster because that's one of the things that Satoshi invented was, you know, here's a digital asset, a cryptographically secured digital asset, and here's the IOU. They're fused together and now Patrick is bringing that back with open transactions to try to make it so that stock settlement is not so goofy enough in the air and endlessly manipulable. So, that's amazingly, amazingly good thing to try to rebuild from the ground up. And I hope that he continually tries to get deeper and deeper into the stack until he can get some kind of decentralized mesh network doing that stuff for us because that would be pretty awesome. Tone Vaze. Gotta unmute it first. Wow. It'll work? Yeah, there is. Wow, I'm a mess today. I think it's great what they're doing. Do I think it's significant? Honestly, no. What would be significant is a person being able to actually hold their stock, right? That would be significant. Creating faster settlement is three days really a problem. No one is taking possession of these stocks. Nobody knows where the hell they are. Now, when his platform allows me to buy Apple stock and allows me to hold Apple stock, just like I hold Bitcoin in my own wallet, in my own system, then I will be impressed. Three days a week, it doesn't matter. It all happens on a side chain. Who cares when it settles? To me, it's really not all that significant. I'm also not sure about the specifics. Like they purchased 10 million of stock from who? From where? Who was the other end of the market? I believe it was a mixed basket of stocks that they could get up. And then they were transferred through. I think they were a mix of Dow stocks if I'm not mistaken. Yeah, but who did they buy them from? Again, I'm not sure about the details of how it worked, but I don't know. It's like, basically, if you're going from an empty house to another empty house, and there's really matter how fast you get there. Again, I don't see this as significant until he's providing people to actually hold their stock, not just transferring them faster. Who cares? Tones only gets excited for $100 million. Theo, good. I think it's really good. I think it's very interesting. And I definitely see it as positive. And as I was talking about pre-show, I kind of look at it like the movie What About Bob. Baby steps. You take baby steps. First, you got, what was it? 10 million? What was it? Then you got 50 million. And then you got billion. Then you got 50 billion. No, I think it's cool. I agree, Ton. I really would be very impressed when you can hold the Apple stock token in my wallet just like I can Bitcoin. I totally agree. And I just look at it. Okay, what's something that I could do as a first step to show how this whole mechanism could work even though I don't know how it technically works either. Like you said, those issues where the stocks come from. And so on, still as a first step, I think that's really good. And also going back to another point about branding, did we notice something? A startup with a single word. Click. Not CLIC. Okay, but the other click. But just interesting to note that that is a thing now. Okay, that is the new thing. I think that's a hedge fund. I wouldn't call that a startup, but um, Okay, but still it's a brand name and it's a single word. Even the hedge funds can see the value. I mean, who's last cool than people at hedge funds? Even they know, dude. And it's a hedge fund that it has something to do with the crypto world, some connection. So, yeah, I don't know. I don't know anything about that hedge fund. Right? These are just a million questions that I would have. Is it, I've never heard of it before? Is it a standard hedge fund? Is it like a hedge fund as of two months ago that only has 20 million under management, which is still pretty good for a startup? But yeah, I have no idea. I just more questions than answers, but I'm looking for for them to, um, to allow people to take possessions of this stuff. And way before we get there, even right now, how do we know the SEC isn't going to come down tomorrow and say that's transactions and valid. We're confiscating your illegal trade and they can blame inside a trading or whatever the hell they want, right? Okay, like these are all really, really good questions, but like this has fundamentally to do with what T0 is and how it's been set up. Their PATs are pre-bar were sure tokens, so these are debt equities that are going forward to represent transactions in a way that is less regulated and other things. So there are things in ways that this could be made better, but the government is to blame for why that's not happening. So this being a bridge tool while those things really, it varies a lot more prophetic than it would seem at first. There's a good article on this. It says, overstock CEO uses Bitcoin tech to, to skill Wall Street secret. That's a good primer article for the technology that empowers the T0 system. I'm going to be, I'm going to be a lot more impressed with a lot of these technologies, basically after the next financial crisis and by some miracle. We'll obviously be the, the socialists, governments and regulators, at least partially admit that they are part of the problem, right? They'll have to admit that they are part of the problem because they'll be fired because they won't be enough money to pay for them. You know, I think you're right, but I also think that there's a risk that when stuff starts to really have a hard time, the regulators and socialists figure heads and stuff, I'm going to say Silicon Valley did this. Look at, they took everybody's jobs and automated everything into worthlessness. Their greed made everything bad. Open free market is to blame. We need more government to control the unbridled, what great white shark of the free market that doesn't hurt people, which of course is not relevant. I'm still relevant. I'm relevant. I'm relevant. Look at me, look at me. That's more, I think, what it's about, even if they don't even know if they care about the markets or all that kind of stuff is just like, hey, I'm relevant. I'm relevant. Don't shut us down. I'm relevant. Like the bigger issue is not even going to be the stock market. It's when automated cars come and the number one employer of jobs, which is transportation, when those jobs start to go away, I mean, just look at the charts. The number one, the highest number of employment of people is in the transportation business, and all those jobs are going to be gone. So you can only imagine the kind of storm that's coming down the pipe with automated cars. Absolutely. Absolutely. He heard Vonnegade wrote extensively about that about the second coming of the industry revolution, where it's not people with physical jobs that are replaced, but people with intellectual capacity and jobs that are replaced. And I do see what Patrick Bernan-T0 is doing as a way to try to make it so that as we reach that system, people still have jobs and things to do in ways to transact, as opposed to just be like, now there's nothing left to do but blame and build concentration camps and blame the free market instead of like, let's not go in that direction. Let's make infrastructure that leads by example that allows us to exit that instead of, you know, doing something crazy, like we want to be three percent to take up arms with the state of all of like that's not a good plan. Yeah, but again, Thomas's question was am I excited about it? No, no, I mean, it's not excited about it. So it's supposed to happen, right? We have new technology to make things faster. I was like, I'm excited that when when I really learned what Bitcoin was, hence like, quit my finance job and joined a Bitcoin company, right? Am I excited that stocks are now moving in one day instead of three days? No. It's a big deal if I can type why instead of YES like Homer Simpson, I mean, I've tripled my productivity. That's three times the speed and we're getting, it's amazing. Amazing. Now Theo Goodman, your turn to comment on T0. Oh, I thought I already did. I thought I think it's great. Remember, I talked about the baby steps. I think it's okay. Well, let's just move on to the exit question. T0 or liquid network, block stream or overstock? Who wins? Blake Anderson. Oh, I don't know that they're competing super directly, but like, every time we have these kinds of questions, I always say Patrick because he's really, really, really smart. Tone days. Yeah, I think they're in completely different industries. So I don't see them competing at all. I hope they both succeed. I mean, I really like the block stream team and I like Patrick Burn. I hope they've out the both succeed. They're not competing at all at the moment. So Theo Goodman. I think everybody wins today. Everybody wins. Yeah, they're in different areas and I don't think they're necessarily competing. So I think they're going to eat each other's lunch and then they're both going to starve. Right. Well, before they eat each other's lunch, they have to change their name to a single English word. Then they can eat each other's lunch. Angry at your lunch. Very good. And if you haven't heard of that hedge fund, it's because you're not in the right click. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh, that's a way, Homer. You're going to have to work on that one on the way, Homer. Moving on to predictions or story of the week. Blake Anderson, do you have a prediction or a story of the week? Yeah, I guess this story of the week Bitcoin investors is coming up at the end of this month, 28th and 29th of October, the D in Las Vegas is going to be a blast. There's going to be lots of people there. Tone's going to be there. I'm going to be there, which will be like, what more reason would you need than to go somewhere and have me talk at you real close to your face and spit flies out of my mouth? It's a good time. Also, I know that there's some secret guests apparently that are going to come that aren't going to be on anything listed, but they're going to be pretty cool to hang out with. So, I mean, if you're going to go to one conference ever again for the history of time, you should probably go to Bitcoin investors in Las Vegas at the end of this month. And flights to Vegas are super cheap, too. Tone Vays. All right, so I'll go with the prediction. What was that? What was that company we covered in the first story? Bit reserved, was it? A poll. A poll, but yes, a poll. No, a bit reserved, right? So, my prediction is that one of the next scandals in the near future will be either a hack or a loss of funds or regulators shut down. I think in the near future, we will hear a lot more about bit reserve. I'm not in a good way. That's my prediction. And I already got my 20 bucks out. Theo Goodman. My prediction is more companies rebrand to single English words, like a poll and other click and other cool words like that. Now, I don't really have any other big prediction. I already made a price prediction of the week. Story of the week without words. I guess story of the week is suspected. Russian Ponzi scheme claims it's the reason the Bitcoin price is going up. So, my prediction of my prediction is that next week, there'll be another supposed Ponzi scheme that is deemed responsible for the price increase of some cryptocurrency. Very good. And finally, prediction. The banks are into the blockchain, but they don't get Bitcoin yet. Just give them time and realize eventually they'll realize there's not really a major advantage to having blockchain servers in-house. The advantage to having an unalterable ledger system is to store it outside of your house, where it really can't be edited. In-house systems will always be controllable. The power of Bitcoin is its network. The power of the uneditable blockchain. Oh, we're out of time. Until next time. Bye-bye.