The Bitcoin Group, the American original, for over the last ten seconds, the sharpest Satoshi's, the best Bitcoin's, the hardest cryptocurrency talk. We'd like to welcome our panelists, Blake Anderson, cryptographic economist. Hi, thanks for having me on the show. Chris Ellis from the World Crypto Network and Pro Tip. Hello, thanks for having me. And I'm Thomas Hunt. First off, today, the Bitcoin Group would like to say a hearty hello and we miss you to all of our friends at Pork Fest. We wish you could be there with you this week and we're with you in spirit. We all had a great time there last year and maybe next year we could do it all again. For those of you who don't know, this week is the annual Porky Pine Liberty Festival in New Hampshire, hosted by the Free State Project. Blake Anderson, your thoughts about Pork Fest? Well, I have many thoughts about that. The first I would like to welcome Jeremy Gardner to the show, last minute edition here. I'm glad that we got to incorporate him into the broadcast. We would have definitely been all the poor for not having him, which I just directly stole from Thomas saying before we went live. So I'll go ahead and take credit for that sentiment. Pork Fest was really really fun last year. It's going to, I assume, be fun again this year. I'm a staff that I couldn't be there. We all three were there last year and it was a good old time. I think that the most fun was the fire that last night with the burglaries and the fireworks and everybody getting rid of their excess stuff that couldn't travel with that night was probably the most fun. So I remember that fondly and hope we can all go to another one soon. I have absolutely no memory of that. Chris Ellis. I have memory of you finding a certain bracelet actually on the last night if I'm not mistaken. What were your words exactly? Libertarians can't tie knots. It's okay to me to say that because you said it all over the videos anyway at the time. No, I really missed the place and I was looking through the Twitter stream earlier on and actually I didn't even realize I started going, oh, I kind of miss it. I recognized the big scenery. What's so amazing about America is that everything is bigger than Britain, even the horizon. How's that possible? How can a horizon be bigger just because you're in a different country? So yeah, I did look through some of the lovely landscapes that people have been taking apparently. They're building a road. So they found somebody to do it. That's pretty impressive. And yeah, just a big hello to everybody at Portfest. If you're watching this, I hope you're having a great time. You've got a couple more days left and wish I could be there. It's funny. We know they're building a road only because of certain sarcastic tweets that we received. Jeremy Garner. Can we hear you? Do you have any thoughts on Portfest, the Libertarian Convention? Can you hear me? Yeah, we can hear you. Go ahead. My thoughts on Portfest. Well, I'm a noted non-libertarian. So I think Portfest sounds great. I like Port, although I don't think that's what it's short for. And I like the Libertarians that I work with in the Bitcoin industry. New Hampshire is great. I went to boarding school there before I got kicked out. Beautiful place. So Libertarians, New Hampshire, Summer, should be a good time. A lot of ideas I don't agree with. But hey, it's a lovely place. I saw a lot of Libertarians there chopping wood with their hand guns and their holsters ready in case the wood talked back to them. They hate it when the wood melts off. Well, the problem is they sometimes think the trees are government agents and therefore there's just like a lot of miscommunication that goes on. I totally understand. They do have a problem with trees there. Moving on to issue one. All on the same screen here. Issue one, Eric Voorhees, the fire brand from shapeshift.io, the man who put the Satoshi in the dice. Well, it's on the warpath this week, launching into a righteous attack on Ben Loskey's new Bitcoin consulting firm, calling it the very definition of crony capitalism. As Loskey went straight from the so-called public service of regulating Bitcoin and writing the bit license to consulting private companies on its practice and use. Chris Ellis is Loskey, as Voorhees says, a man in a privileged position making rules, then leaving to profit off the very same rules. Well, we talked about Nintendo Gorsky at Nolsey on this show. I think, first of all, I want to say that obviously Voorhees has got a bit of an advertorial agenda. He's promoting shapeshift.io. This isn't new information. This isn't news that we're learning that this chap is corrupt, that he wrote the rules, and now he's going to charge money to help rich people get around the rules that he wrote. He did bring up something very interesting at the end of that article, which was how normal it all feels now. The fact is that this goes on every day and people just kind of treat it with on-wee. Like, yeah, whatever. Like I've heard all this already. I'm bored. Give me something new to hear. And as a result, I think it generally feeds into a malaise where people just kind of take it as normal and they don't try to resist. And I think that's very, very sad. So above and beyond what I've said in previous shows, that's all I think on the matter, right now. Jeremy Gardner. I love Eric, Eric's dear friend. Although we disagree on virtually every matter. Although we have some mutual, mutually aligned interests, but including Bitcoin, of course. But I don't know how I feel about Losky. I mean, I think Losky, and I'll be stoned to death for saying this, I think Losky really intended to do well with the bit license. I think the initial one was a complete disaster. Revised one isn't as bad. It's definitely not good. And this definitely should not be a paradigm shift, a representative paradigm shift in US policy making towards Bitcoin. And if it does become that, I'll dislike Losky more. But I think what he was really trying to do was feed regulatory environment for Bitcoin that allowed Wall Street to really become intimately involved because he thought that as being kind of an necessity for financial technology, such as something involving the blockchain. Which we've seen to be true, although I'm not sure how much the bit license helped. Crony Capitalism, if he's really just consulting the Bitcoin companies, yeah, I'd be inclined to agree with Eric on that. But if he's just running a consulting firm as many bureaucrats do after they leave office, I don't think that's necessarily Crony Capitalism at its worst. But I don't think it would most exemplary piece of public service I've ever witnessed. So I'll leave it at that. Of course, going back to Losky's speech at the money 2020 convention, which you can watch here on the Mad Bitcoin's channel, Losky spoke of the Mt. Gox collapse as almost a JFK assassination for his generation. He was really shocked by it. He wanted to help the Japanese regulators. The regulators didn't even know what Mt. Gox was. And from that moment on, Losky's religious crusade began. Blake Anderson, your thoughts on Losky? I've criticized him so many different times over and over and over and over again. And there's a thing in music theory where notes that come later in the song affect the notes that came earlier and stuff. And the notes that are coming in the Ben Losky song right now, as far as him opening up this consulting firm to consult relative to the maze of legislation that he helped to form, it just kind of a paint to picture that leaves a bad taste in my mouth. So I think that with his attempts to regulate Bitcoin beyond just regulating the people that are going to be custodians of the coins, trying to dig deeper than that, I think that that was clear of him having an intent aside from what Jeremy illustrated, which I wanted to believe as well. But I think that the depth with which he tried to regulate Bitcoin and then now having a consulting firm that's going to help get through that is indicative of him having ill intent or crony intent this entire time. So I think that he's one of the biggest jerks of all time for this move and that's my opinion on the matter. Exit question, greatest Bitcoin CEO, Eric Voorhees, Patrick Byrne or Brian Armstrong, Chris Ellis. Bon, for sure. Patrick Byrne. Jeremy Gardner. Jeremy Gardner. No. Wait, I only have those three choices. Those are the only three choices. Well, considering that Patrick Byrne, all he's done in Bitcoin is lose money and then also made it acceptable for big companies to accept. And then Eric's kind of just the man and then Brian Armstrong, well, he doesn't like anything except Bitcoin. So we don't really see eye to eye. So I mean, I think Eric takes the cake. Although Patrick has been hugely important as well and so is Brian. But Eric's my favorite and he's built a three great companies. So I'd say he's really a fantastic CEO. Blake Anderson. It's really, really hard to say. Me and Voorhees are so similar ideologically that it's really not a fair contest. Then again, I've never actually met or talked to Eric Voorhees. And I have Brian Armstrong and I have Patrick Byrne. I've actually had the most contact with Patrick Byrne and he really, really, really has a polymathic and genius facility for philosophy and for history, which he uses to inform his business dealing, which I think is really, really, really cool. And yeah, I mean, some money has been lost. But I think that, you know, I've talked to Brian Armstrong a little bit and he's a really nice guy. But he didn't make his big of an impression as the other two. So I think I'm going to have to go with Patrick Byrne for my favorite. The correct answer is Eric Voorhees. Eric Voorhees because he's the only one I've met and had dinner with. Moving on to issue three. Issue two, overstock.com reports losses of more than $117,000 in the first quarter as the stalwart Bitcoin merchant reportedly held up to 10% of its Bitcoin sales in Bitcoin. Speaking to CoinDesk, overstock cryptocurrency group general manager Judd Bagley claimed that the loss of the results of the decline of the altcoin market. Overstock was obviously a serious dozecoin investor. Jeremy Garner, your thoughts, Litecoin, Counterparty, Golden Tickets? So, I mean, this is what I was just referring to, you know, I don't know if as the CEO of a publicly traded company. This was the best decision. In the long run, I think we all believe it was a good decision. But this guy has a fiduciary responsibility to his investors. And while 100K is in a huge amount to a billion dollar companies such as Overstock, it just, it wasn't a great move. And clearly they weren't able to piece the Counterparty guys. It seems like Overstock's kind of very much docking kind of a traditional large corporate mindset that doesn't really have him flow as well with the start of mentality that Patrick Burns trying to embrace by bringing in all this crypto stuff. The dramatic, it was a dramatic risk, but can you imagine if it had gone the other way? Well, I think we all expect it still, too. And as long as they're still holding it, I mean, I think the upside potential is tremendous. So as long as they don't sell the Bitcoin that they've held, I think it will still have massive upside potential. But then again, it comes back to the fiduciary responsibility of the entity. And I don't know if they'll be able to hold on to it much longer, considering the tremendous loss of the experience. Blake Anderson. Well, I mean, I think that you have to look at it in terms of the investment horizons that were made with these different things. And in terms of the all coins, what were the upside potentials versus the downside potential? If they knew that there was a downside potential of 100,000 losses, and that was worth the risk of 40,000 percent increase in value for some of these various different alt coins, that is not advice that I would have not given them as well as a cryptographic economist. So I can see going in there and losing some money with the potential upside. However, I would have strongly advised against some of the chains and styles of proof of operation of some of the alt coins. I've pushed Bitcoin the most in my career, so I would hope that they would have appropriate investment horizons and enough holdings in Bitcoin, which I believe they do. They have like 10 percent of their total sales that are put into Bitcoin. If they have investment horizons that straddle block having, I believe they will have absolutely no problem. But, however, being a company that crushes out absolutely massive returns on a consistent basis. So I think that we're going to be looking at them as a future for CharHathaway, like Institution. And I have absolutely no doubts about that. Chris Ellis. That's quite bold statements to compare them to Berkshire Hathaway. This is a price chart of XCP, which is the counterparty currency that they use on the exchange. And you can see the dates of the article when they first announced that they were going to be working with Patrick Bern was October the 7th. And then if you come to this chart, you can see about October the 6th is where the price starts going up like a day before the article. And sort of peaks out around November and it's gone down. So I would not be surprised if they ended up going long into XCP, just because of that connection there with the developers. Like I'd be very surprised. They haven't said which alternative cryptocurrencies that they invested in. I think that's a massive mistake. There's got to be good accounting practices in the US that probably prohibits large companies, take volatile investments. But as many people have commented already, this is not a lot of money for a company at the size of Overstock. So I think overall it's good that they are investing in the industry. And I certainly think it was a good move for them to hold Bitcoin too. That's a very reassuring sign for everyone else who's in the scene. Exit, there we go. Exit question, if you could time travel back and advise Patrick Bern, would you advise him to hold Bitcoin? Yes or no? Jeremy Garner. Absolutely. I think it was such a bold move and I thought it was so fantastic. I mean, it depends on what my advisory role would be but as someone within the industry I'd say sure. I mean, I'd have prepared him for the downside potential but the upside is so great that I think you can kind of make up for this. Especially if they're able to hold it for a long enough period of time where we see the price increase. Blake Anderson. Well, I did have some contact with Patrick and I advised him to diversify into an alternate option aside from counterparty. Counterparty was not built in a way that I completely agreed with. I think that yes, he should invest in Bitcoin and I think that actually he's not simply invested in it. He has invested material resources into Bitcoin to such an extent that it has a price floor that not many other people could have helped to engender. So I think that that's good but I really don't know that the XCP counterparty kind of pseudo fiat burn requirement situation that's almost going to make a market was ever something that was going to take off a lot but I do recognize the fundamental purpose of a decentralized ledger and that being absolutely in line with stock and the title trade in the feature. So I think it's really valuable if they're putting research into that area and I think they're trailblazers as far as that goes but did the counterparty project go well? Is it going well? I mean unless I see a bigger pivot I guess in use I can't really say that it's been a huge success as of yet. Chris Ellis. Yeah in Bitcoin yes but in any other alternative cryptocurrency I would have advised against it. Moving on, sharing screen. This episode of the Bitcoin group is brought to you by Perse. Spend Bitcoin at amazon.com and receive a 20% discount at Perse.io. Spend your way to total Bitcoin adoption. It's just that simple with Perse and don't forget we've got questions and answers. Ask your questions now and we'll get to them at the end of the show. Issue 3. Nasdaq announced that it's partnering with chain to create a private market using colored coins to track catalog and manage shares. The move comes right on the heels of overstocks Patrick Burns who's also developing a blockchain based private stock market. The DC. Our blockchain backed private markets the future of stock investing. I ask you Blake Anderson. We are decentralized ledger of who owns what is great for stock and title and for ownership and for proving of all kinds of different things. So I think it's great. The Nasdaq adopting blockchain technology is really good but I am not a huge fan of the US stock system in general is in bed with the financial system to the extent where the inflationary monetary supply makes it so that there's always simulated growth when there's only generally going to be loss in the way that the US manages their funds and fails to stay between the red and the black and just adds to the national debt all the time. So good of the Nasdaq to be engendering and embracing blockchain technology but the Bernie made offs and stuff that came out of the Nasdaq. I think it's just evidence of that entire system needs to be maybe transcended to a more deep extent than simply adapting some types of blockchain technology effects to the corruption. Chris Ellis. So all they're doing as far as I know is time stamping. I don't think the actual trades get performed using the coloured coin but yes I think it's a good idea. I think it's a precedent and Nasdaq is a very big name even if it does have, even if it is tainted by the Bernie made off name from all those years ago. So yeah, I generally support this. Jeremy Gardner. Um, my interest multifaceted. I mean, I, first of all, thrilled that Nasdaq is doing this. Whether I think this is going to set precedent in the financial services industry, I find highly unlikely having spoken to blockchain teams at pretty much every major investment bank and some other entities such as IBM. What they're all typically finding, it's the same thing we found as we built a auger, which in fact you could actually put the entire stock market on, although maybe I shouldn't say that. Anyhow, you, one thing that these blockchain teams are finding, sorry about that background noise, is that the Bitcoin blockchain is really good for peer-to-peer financial transactions but is not inherently scalable for other sorts of transactions. So when you're trying, when you're talking about a stock market, which is a bit more complicated than just the peer-to-peer currency that Bitcoin enables, I think what we're going to find is distributed ledger, such as hyper ledger, which is just acquired by Blathemaster's digital asset holdings company. We're going to see models like that be implemented far more at least in the immediate future, because these financial institutions like Dominic control of their ledgers, they don't want it to be fully decentralized. So I think NASDAQ is a step in the right step and it's awesome, but I don't think it's going to set precedent for the near future. Exit question, one word, who will win Medici, NASDAQ, somebody else, Blake Anderson? You know, I hope somebody else, but I hope it's under Patrick Burns, Influence and Team in Research. I hope it's an iteration of Medici, I guess. This Ellis, I don't think anyone needs to win. I think the reason NASDAQ is doing this is just so that they have a irreversible chain of proofs that they can show people later on. I don't think this is a competitive angle myself. Trust me, Chris, someone always needs to win. Jeremy Gardner. I'm on the same opinion. I don't believe that NASDAQ and Medici are competing with one another. Both of them are huge steps forward for this ecosystem. I think NASDAQ's undertaking is much more likely to be successful, just due to the fact that they're already the second largest stock exchange in the world, correct me if I'm wrong. And Medici is not a stock exchange yet. So they definitely have the leg up. But I'm rooting for both of them. I'm rooting for anyone that's using distributed decentralized ledgers to kind of improve and make more transparent or financial system. Issue 4. Millennials don't trust the stock market. And 50% say they won't use Bitcoin. Golden Sachs poll reveals some popular clip bait headlines. However, Goldman, as usual, is bearing the lead. The real news here is that 22% do use Bitcoin and plan to use it again, with an additional 22% saying they haven't used it yet, but they plan to. That's a strong 44% standing with Bitcoin with an additional 5% haters and 1% undecided. Chris Ellis, your thoughts on the millennial Bitcoin straw poll? Well, they're not stupid, are they? And I think they saw the writing on the wall. And especially in the last few years when you've had people like Michael Lewis writing his books and having that big uproar on CNN or one of those channels, you can go look it up and they had this big argument with the old guy from the Bats Exchange and then one of these kind of new entrepreneurs. And the fact is that even when you hear the defense from the old school, the old crowd, the old guard at the Bats Exchange and all these traditional exchanges, they don't really have a lot to come back with other than high frequency cheating, somehow increase liquidity and then they just expect the argument to disappear because with liquidity we get it all. But it's not wrong to say that you do need liquidity in these markets as all of these cryptocurrencies have proved that when the liquidity goes away, you can't match buys themselves. So I don't know about the millennials really. I suppose technically we are millennial, right? Because I think you just have to be a teenager when it went over into 2000 in order to qualify or something like that. So I don't know if that includes us, but yeah, I'm really not surprised by this poll. If you were born after 1983, if you want the exact definition. Oh really? Oh damn it, I just miss out. We're more of a generation why type people I think. Jeremy Garner, the only representative from the millennial generation, go ahead. Yeah, I mean, so personally I trust the stock market. I got into the stock market right when the economy crashed. I started investing late 2008, early 2009 and it treated me incredibly well. That being said, I wish I had bought Bitcoin instead of stocks. But having founded the College of cryptocurrency network a year and a half ago, that was our basic thesis was that the millennial generation does not trust traditional finance. I think less the stock market than big banks, Goldman Sachs, JPMorgan, the big investment big size actually referring to earlier. And I know it's true. I mean, it has to be true. I mean, the College of cryptocurrency network by no effort in my own. I mean, I put some effort in and founding this organization. It grew from three Bitcoin clubs at MIT Stanford and Michigan to over 180 Bitcoin clubs on every habitable continent in 40 plus countries in just over a year. I mean, there is a huge desire among those who are very well informed about how the contemporary financial system works that there's something inherently broken about it. And when we do see something better. I think the future of Bitcoin, the future of blockchain technology at lies in our generation. And it's been amazing to see the incredible projects that have come out of our network. It's been incredible to work with so many passionate young people. And from every walk of life, it's something that transcends ethnicity, religion, socioeconomics. It's extraordinary geography. I mean, we have students at Sub-Saharan Africa. They might like Bitcoin for a reason that's entirely different than our students and the other ones. They still love Bitcoin. And I think that it's hugely powerful. And it's almost the first transcendent financial technology that ever exists that can really be applied to everyone in the world as long as they have an internet connection. The kids love cryptocurrencies. Blake Anderson. Well, I mean, it's mathematically provable to the real scarcity. I mean, why would you want to invest in something that's up in the air when you can invest in mathematically provable digital scarcity based on what economics have taught us about supply and demand and things like that? So whatever the straw poll says right now about the opinion of Bitcoin is irrelevant to the long term of what is it actually in the terms of comparison with these traditional financial tools, which are endlessly manipulable. And of course, millennials are not stupid and they have access to the entire force of the age of information. Information that they're fingertip for their phone with their computers. They are not going to just sit idly by and get screwed over with non-dischargeable student dead and things forever. They are going to usurp the systems which are trying to enslave an entire generation and it's not going to go well. And people think that it's not going to happen and it is going to happen. It's an untenable system that's at work right now. And it will come to an end. I mean, as an information and computer scientist, system stability is a huge part of that. And right now we have an incontrovertibly, fundamentally unstable system and it will not last. All this doom and gloom you sound like InfoSec Taylor Swift. Moving on to the exit question, you can prove anything with polls, 97% of all people know that. Push polling, the propaganda technique of attempting to influence people under the guise of conducting a poll. It's all about how you ask the question to get the answer you want. Chris Ellis, do you believe the polls? Let's take a poll right now. Do you believe that Bitcoin will achieve total Bitcoin adoption in less than 10 years? Yes. Jeremy Garner, yes or no, less than 10 years. Hold on. You just gave me a softball here to knock out of the park. I'm building auger, prediction markets. It's polling at its very finest. Instead of having people just say what you want them to say because you asked the question in the right way, you make people put their money where their mouth is and actually bet on the outcome of any future events. So you set ideologies and opinions aside and really make it about what you believe is going to happen. So one, polls are trashed. Two, 10 years is too ambitious. I think we'll see adoption of Bitcoin as a digital goal in the next 10 years, but not as a global currency. Blake Anderson. That's a very, very good question. I mean, the technological element of Bitcoin and the human element of Bitcoin and how the technology reacts with society and the pace at which it does that with the incentive production graph is absolutely fascinating. Is it going to reach ubiquitous adoption in 10 years? I mean, that would depend on what you mean by mass adoption. I think that it will depend heavily on the block having and the stability of nation-states ability to further print and debase their fiat currencies. So depending on those two factors, it could be a long time or a very short time. I want to take that as a no. So that means that two out of four Bitcoin panelists agree. That's 50%. What a great poll, non-scientific plus or minus. Margin of error conducted on Sundays during the evening only by people with telephone. And now your questions and answers, there's still a chance to ask a question if you have a question. We've first got kind of a comment from Theo. Theo says, you can now hedge against doge dropping prices. If you need help hedging your doge, ask Theo at Bitcoin potato. And you can hold Bitcoin's hedging short positions more like derivatives or put options, allowing companies to hold Bitcoin longer without destroying profits for shareholders. I endorse Theo. Theo's the man. Go ahead and contact Theo if you're interested in that. We've also got one more question. Theo writes, don't you think that generation X is way cooler than these millennial ear bud hipsters? The only real thing to think about is who's going to pay for and take care of the baby boomers when they all live to 90. Let's start with Jeremy. Are you ear bud wearing millennials going to take care of the baby boomers? Yeah. I mean, duh. I mean, look out here in San Francisco. I mean, it's an assisted living community for young people. I mean, we are literally maximizing efficiency, convenience, and kind of techno utopian vision of the world that will make our parents lives a lot easier and hopefully make it so they don't make us suffer through their suffering. Who would imagine that the key to old age was there's an app for that. Blake and his dad put like Oculus Rift on them and have them like drip fed with soil and like put them in these big fats. I've already been picturing my life in a virtual reality age of home and I think it's actually very bad. I've got a baby boomer. I've got a baby boomer. I'm not a bimbo generation. Why technically? You're the lost generation. I'm the lost generation. You're right. Yeah. I was born in 86. Where does that put me? You're one of them. Oh, you're not the only one. You're just like me. So I'm a hipster scumbag just like the rest of us. We're all the same. You know, not good. What were I not again? I forgot even what we were talking about because my millennial brain can't remember things. Are you going to take care of the bimbooners? Are you going to put them on an ice float to die? Well, that's an important question. I also have my son has ASD which is a disability. So taking care of people is something that's very, very near and dear to me and I think the government does a really shitty job of it. My mother-in-law, my wife's mother works in special services with disabled and cognitively delayed adults and children and I have seen repeatedly law makers slash and slash and slash budgets for those kinds of things because those are the people that in this situation of representative democracy can't represent themselves, can't speak for themselves and they get their fun slash. So I think that that's untenable and I think that if we can make private organizations and fundraise and take care of the older people and disabled people, that will be good to read across certainly raised what like 500 million and built six houses or 500 billion and built six houses. So we can do better. I think that it's an incumbent upon us to do better exactly in the vein that Jeremy was talking about with intelligence, with industry, with hard work and with sweat and I think that yes, we will definitely succeed and take care of the people that need it in the future. We've got another question from Eric. Eric writes, I don't know if you guys have covered this but is there a reason why we haven't seen Bitcoin XT made into an altcoin? He follows up saying if they did do that, think about releasing XT as an altcoin, wouldn't that give us an opportunity to test how the implementation would work without worrying about ruining the entire network? Now I'm going to assume that Bitcoin XT is maybe Bitcoin with an 8 megabyte block, a larger block size. Let's do Chris, do you have comments on this? Where do you guys want to start? The reason is that you can't test it to its maximum because you need so much hashing power to really know what it's going to do and also there are economic implications too because what we don't know is what impact and increasing the block size will have on the mining fees. The danger is and the real threat is that the mining fees will be driven to zero as there's a lot of space to start putting all the transactions in and therefore you won't have the competition that you currently have in the scarcity of the one megabyte size when it comes to developers deciding how to scale the network. Obviously they just picked these numbers out. There isn't any hard science because science can't really talk about things unless it's got evidence for it and in which case it has to have happened in the past at some point we have no historical evidence for this. So yeah, you can't really do this with an altcoin. It also falls up saying that it would be a fair way of seeing how popular the changes were without putting a gun to everyone's head saying you will adopt these changes. It's worth bearing in mind that this is not a drill, right? Bitcoin is a live experiment and we are building this plane on the way down. In terms of that, Gavin is coding in a 75% what he calls super maturity where you will need 75% of the hashing power in order to make the fork and we've never had a successful fork in Bitcoin's history by the way. So this will be the first time it's ever happened. We had the mistake back in March 2013 and that was not something to celebrate. So I think I actually personally prefer bit 100 if you want to check that out which is Garz's proposal because I think it's much more granular and fluid but yeah, I mean we literally are doing this live. And we're doing this live and we're moving on to predictions or story of the week. Like Anderson, are you ready with a prediction or a story of the week? Well my prediction I guess is just that Bitcoin right now is not necessarily at a hard bottom. It can still go lower but it's starting to enter the months and years where it's going to start swelling up for the next block having. That's already priced into some extent and I think that the next block having being priced in right now is going to affect how low the price floor goes approaching that next having. I think that people starting to dollar cost average savings into Bitcoin with the intention of bridging this next coming block having in early 2017, late 2016. We're going to start to see maybe the price start to slowly increase as it continually approaches the culmination of the push up by that next having created by the change in supply and demand. Chris Ellis. So I want to talk about this halving thing. I want to talk in particular about the harvining. Anyone heard about the harvining? The harvining is the latest justification to pump the like coin price and actually we did have cobbly that is the guy that actually, here he is. This is a few days ago. It's in the 18th of June. He's in the BTC E trollbox, the dreaded BTC E trollbox. That's one of the most popular exchanges particularly for the altcoins. He's in the chat room telling everyone to keep the price up guys and he's given away free like coins to people who were listening. This is all because on the 26th of August estimated date like coin will be having its block carving. So everyone's going wild over it, not just over that actually mind you. There are also going wild over this, the Grexit which I'm predicting more people will shill and use as an excuse to pump up the altcoin market because that's been happening in plenty. You've actually got an article here from Reuters, no less, who were actually quoting a friend of mine, actually Paul Gordon here in the London scene and they quoted him as saying, this time around the worries about Greece could be filtering through. Bitcoin could, notice the could, provide an alternative outlet for some people and what did we see a few days later we saw this article in the Metro by another guy from the London Bitcoin scene called Michael Parsons. I know these two people personally, I call them friends. They say hi to each other and here he is pumping up the whole fucking Bitcoin thing saying it could be Cypress 2.0, it could be Cypress 2.0. Look, I'm not being funny, but this is really distasteful. People are actually suffering in Greece and you're using this whole fallout as an excuse and there were lots of people that have been on the Grexit hashtag on Twitter posting up pictures of ATM's in Greece going, it's cricket's guys, it's tumbleweed, nothing's happening, nobody's going to take the cash out. It might be true that slowly, slowly people are putting phone calls into their bank and asking to move money off shore, I'm not surprised they're doing that. But let's just think about this. We all love a good bank run. It's very entertaining when it's not happening to you, but I don't think that it's very fair and actually all it does is cheapens Bitcoin and it just makes outsiders people that haven't got into Bitcoin yet but perhaps with thinking of doing so. Just gives them more fuel and just gives them more skepticism and I'm not really down with that. It's also unfortunate that Greece lacks a native Bitcoin exchange so it would be incredibly difficult for them to move their money into Bitcoin under any of these media scenarios. Jeremy Garner, do you want to go get Chris? I just wanted to say one thing though, when there was people talk about on team, on team speak the other day and one guy said very intelligently, Bitcoin only has to be better than the worst possible alternative. So it's not untrue, right? That's a very, very good point. If Bitcoin is going to catch on in any way in this show you perform, it only needs to be better than the worst possible alternative. Jeremy Garner, are you ready with a prediction or a story of the week? I think the story of the week in it's gone totally unceded is life masters, life masters and digital asset holdings, acquisitions of bits of proof in hyperliger. I think this is going to mark that and as promising as the Nasak experiment sounds, this is going to more or less mark the end of traditional finances, interests in the Bitcoin blockchain as they begin to discover other ways of improving their systems without having to have a native token such as Bitcoin. I know this is bullish, I know this is distasteful, but I don't believe that in the next few years we're going to see why the scale adoption of Bitcoin or its underlying technology by the big banks in the foreseeable future. Very good. First, we have a story of the week. I'd like to join with everyone else on the internet with celebrating the victory in the Supreme Court for gay marriage. Congratulations to everyone involved. It's long overdue and you have equal rights now. It's great. It's a miserable heterosexual couple. The divorce lawyers will be patting a road to your door. They're getting ready for it. It's a great day for everyone. The government has been so generous as to give everybody this right that they never should have had any say and I'm so happy that the government is so nice and generous to do this for everybody that should have been able to do it all along. It's so great. What do you think about marrying animals? I don't know. It does not interest me. I guess I can say about it. It depends if the animals consent. If they're willing to be a mutual consent, if they talk in a conversation, I've had so many great conversations with animals. It would just boil down to a debate about contract, loss of antics. I like animals as much as the next person, but I don't know if that's going to hold up in a court. And finally, a prediction, Bitcoin spending. Action comes before motivation. It may seem paradoxical, but it's true. We need to solve this chicken and the egg problem. The merchant first adoption plan has failed. They can build it, but without any customers, it's just an empty stadium. We need to fill that stadium up first before we can see a show. We need to spend Bitcoin. Hope we're out of time. Until next time. Bye, bye.