The Bitcoin Group, the American original, for over the last ten seconds, the sharpest satosis, the best Bitcoin, the hardest cryptocurrency talk. We're live on madbittcoins.com, thebitcoingroup.com, worldcryptonenetwork.com, and follow thecoin.com, and of course YouTube and Twitter. We're joined by our guests, Will Pengman from Topiki. Hi. Derek J. Freeman from Peace News now. Hello. Andres Antonopoulos, author of Mastering Bitcoin. I've been writing some. Chris Ellis from World Crypto Network. Hello. And Kristoff Atlas, author of Anonymous Bitcoin book. Good to be here with you all. Moving on, the first topic, hip hop icon NAS. We are entering into the age of Bitcoin. Very exciting news. NAS is not just a legendary rapper and a celebrity, but he's also a big venture capitalist who says, and I quote, Bitcoin is going to evolve into an industry as big, if not bigger than the internet. My man Ben Horowitz has really opened my eyes to that point. This isn't of the internet age. Bitcoin is its own age. Your thoughts on this momentous occasion. Will Pengman. Well, let's remember this isn't the first rapper, ex-rapper with a huge spotlight to say positive things about Bitcoin. Snoop Dogg is tweeted about Bitcoin. 50 cent released an album accepting Bitcoin. And let's see, I know Acon was hot to try to on Bitcoin around the LA area with like the the bid angels, Brock Pierce and stuff. They met him and educated him on Bitcoin. And now NAS. And you again, this is like a culture or subset of entertainment that seems to really do the copycat thing really well. And everyone is better off for it. It's like the rising tide raises all ships and rap and hip hop and pop music in general too. Trends spread very quickly there and they gain ubiquity quickly. So yeah, it's always great to see people in pop culture acknowledging and very positively so Bitcoin. So it's going to be more contagious. Great point Will. Musicians work with other musicians and they'll spread the word Derek Jay. Yeah, speaking of musicians working together, I'm surprised he didn't get the Kanye in his ear with all the trouble he had over Coinye. I'm waiting for Nas coin to come out now and he'll show Coinye or Kanye what he missed out on. And Jerez and to Nobulous. So I had no idea who Nas is. So when I first saw this news, I thought some company involved in network attached storage had finally decided to adopt Bitcoin. I was really excited by that news. I guess I'm equally excited by this news and now I'm going to have to go out on YouTube and find out what kind of music Nas makes because I have no idea. We can definitely use all the disk space we can get. Chris Jay. So yeah, so Bitcoin helped spread awareness of NAS for me too because I didn't know about him either. And yeah, so you know what I've said about this before is that I'm not that like inspired by these kinds of things I sort of see them as like a fake decomplie. It's going to happen anyway. So my focus and attention is on other more kind of philosophical and technical matters. But yeah, absolutely. This is this is really good. Chris Doth atlas. Chris Doth I really like to see when people who are really good at like making things cool give it to Bitcoin. I think that's very promising. These people have a tremendous effect on a mass adoption of technologies and memes and so forth. If you look at the research of how memes are spread and how mass adoption occurs with the how the tipping point occurs, there's a particular, you know, like prototype of person that that that matches this this non-sky that they really have like a massive effect on on other people getting into this meme. So I think that's quite significant. I'm going to display how wide I am for a moment and just kind of opine about like kind of hip hip hop rappers. Like it's so easy to me to like take these people for granted because in you know, I've been a fan for hip hop for a long time. But in the lyrics of hip hop in the scene of hip hop, you see like a lot of gross stuff, misogyny, just kind of like preoccupation with really shallow things, wealth, you know, instead of saving up your money, there's a lot of rappers at brag about spending their money on on bling and you know, adoring in their car with with bullshit. But actually what the rappers are doing in most part in their real lives is they're accumulating wealth and many of them have segwayed from the kind of this music career into entrepreneurial pursuits, which is very impressive to me. It proves to me that successful rappers and successful music artists oftentimes, they're talented as musical artists. I mean, it analysis apparently the the son of a very famous like jazz musician from Brooklyn. But in a very big way in addition to their talents, their success is based on being just like great entrepreneurs and being great business people. And that's what gets them to those those fame levels. They know how to promote themselves. I've heard a lot of comparisons between rappers and you know, world worldwide federation wrestling type type people. You know, it's all about that kind of self promotion and not just Bragadocio in the form of their music videos and their lyrics and so forth, but actually being able to back that up with like a real good business sense about how to promote themselves. So that that really impresses me and the degree to which Nons is able to get this kind of insight and and tap into and he's not the type of guy that you would expect to have this kind of like foresight into the future of finance and how it's really important to take currencies away from governments and so forth. But he talked about this in his interview about Bitcoin. So it just it kind of blows my mind and it really impresses me and it makes me it gives me hope too because there's so many people that are like looking up to these type of people as role models, as people to you know get their divine their opinions from and so forth. I live in a very urban area and you know, I know that there's lots of people around here that would really pay attention to what he has to say. And so if people like that already are tapped into the tremendous potential of Bitcoin not merely as a means of making money for themselves or whatever as investors but as like a future changing potential and he talked a lot about that too about you know, you know, appealing to the unbanked and so forth servicing the unbanked. Then that that fills me with a tremendous degree of hope and I actually think this is a very this is a very like bottom up type of indicator in terms of Bitcoin adoption because they do have so much sway with the the average person. Great points, Christoph. And in our current society which is really like a William Gibson book, the pursuit of cool cool hunting really is where it's at and Bitcoin seems to be made of cool. Exit question, which celebrity or pop star would you like to speak out about Bitcoin next? Bono, Prince, Weird Al or choose your own will, Penguin. Tom York, Amanda Palmer would be awesome and Will Smith, those three. Great choices. Derek J. I was thinking of Russell Brand because not that I'm a big fan but he has a lot of sway with a thinking crowd. People who are open to new ideas but still follow celebrities. Big fan of Russell Brand saw his recent tour in Lake Tahoe, very well worth it. And Dres and Tenoppelus. Neil DeGrasse Tyson. Excellent. Big mover on the Daily Show all the time. Chris. I quite like the idea of Jenna Marble. She's a YouTuber but I literally only subscribed to two educational YouTube channels. Hers and Sexy feel because they like, like respite for like when I do a lot of reading and stuff. And she makes some music videos as well as just doing like general kind of comedy. And she's been complaining recently that her, you know, she's not earning as much as she used to on YouTube. I guess because advertising revenue will advertise as a bubble as an industry. So I guess that revenue is going down. So she's got like eight million followers. She's the largest following of any female YouTuber. So I reckon we should get a campaign to get her on board because I think she should be just right for it. She's got the right demographic age group people following her and I think she'd benefit from it a lot as well. The new version of Change Tip at Change Tip.com works on YouTube. So you could directly tip Jenna Marbles in the comments sections of her videos, even very small amounts, Nichols, Dimes, and it'll build up in her account. And if she accepts it, which is as easy as clicking on a link and creating an account, she will be accepting Bitcoin. Also, I worked out that if with eight million viewers, even with a really, really pessimistic scenario, she could raise $50,000 really easily if they each just tip to Millie Bit. And if they all get into Bitcoin, they can do well in the future as well as all kinds of opportunities. So yeah, Jenna, Jenna Marbles, listen to us, accept Bitcoin, Change Tip. And Chris Lawden, one followers, and one, Christoph, your choice for celebrity. Okay. I'm not going to pick a celebrity, but I have a piece of commentary. This is going to be very entertaining for me. It's going to be hugely uncomfortable for a tremendous number of people. So there's all these celebrities who are every once in a while, they'll come out, and they'll make some kind of statement about what the world should do. Like the Coney campaign at one point, there is this mysterious madman in Africa that was kidnapping children or something like that. And they'll come out with these campaigns, or ban bossy, or usually the commentary comes in the form of like, oh, I'm behind our president. I do think we should bomb the shit out of this particular geographic region because it's very important that we free this noble, these noble establishes from their, their captors. And so there's Bitcoin is going to be like a really sticky thing for, for the celebrities, because they're mostly morons, liberal morons, status morons. And so like in one, in one sense, Bitcoin is a very democratic kind of a thing. Like, you know, everyone hates the banksters and all this kind of stuff. And so from that point of view, it's going to be very appealing for people to say like, oh, yeah, Bitcoin, we hate the banksters, take finance away from the banksters. And on the other hand, if the world truly does adopt Bitcoin, you can't have any of these social programs. They're entirely based on the ability to to borrow and borrow and borrow from future generations and government bonds and all this other stuff. It's all based on money printing. And so if you take the, if you take the psychological inclusion, it would shut down so many of the other things that these these idiots, celebrities advocate for. And so I think they're going to be caught in a very tough place. Do they advocate for Bitcoin or something? I guess that maybe perhaps they'll find there'll be some kind of gubcoin or, you know, some kind of like, they go vaguely crypto currency, like thing that's actually controlled by a government where they continue to mint the coins and so forth. And maybe that's what they get behind so that it kind of seems like you're sticking it to the banksters, but actually it's still, you know, more of the same thing with a slightly new slightly new technological spin. That's sort of what I expect most celebrities to get behind as opposed to Bitcoin, which is a very risky thing for them to actually come out in the in-favor Bitcoin. Because as soon as Bitcoin poses that systemic threat to to government programs, then they plot they'll have to backpettle at that point. Great point, Christoph. Bitcoin really is the whole package, much like BitTorrent. You can't just separate it into pieces and say, hey, we want the transfer protocol or hey, we want the ability to send money. No, once you accept it, the whole thing comes. Ideology and everything. It's just all packed in there. Moving on, issue two. BitPay offers zero fee merchant processing. Coinbase recently offered zero fees to nonprofits, but BitPay just did them one better as the merchant adoption arena continues to heat up as we trend towards total Bitcoin adoption. The blockchain app is also back in the Apple App Store. So what about it? Are you ready to hit the streets and start asking some businesses to take Bitcoin? It could be just that easy. How far away are we from total Bitcoin adoption? Derek J. Well, it seems like we're pretty close and getting closer every day. I hesitate to even put a time span as far as five years on total Bitcoin adoption at the rate we're headed now, especially with zero dollar fees for merchants. This is going to be huge. I've been talking to merchants for probably two years trying to get them to accept Bitcoin at every place I spend money. And it's usually a pretty easy sell when I tell them about some of the features not having to deal with some of the credit card fees. But when I introduce the number zero, that's really going to make a difference to them. When they're dealing with these fees as small business owners, as most businesses in the US are, they're going to want to transition this out of their own rational self-interest. That's the best play anyone could be motivated. The comparison with the credit cards is clear. Zero fees or four percent fees. It's no comparison. And Dres and to Nopolis. I really don't get the preoccupation with retail shopping for Bitcoin. I think that is both a very, very small area for Bitcoin to succeed. It's very visible, especially to people in North America and Western Europe. It's a very visible form of success for Bitcoin. But how many people does it affect in the world? Not that many. It's a preoccupation of wealthy people, really. I think the idea that shopping is an indicator of Bitcoin's success is highly myopic. I think that Bitcoin isn't about shopping in the Western world. It's about everything else, everywhere else. I find the preoccupation with shopping somewhat jarring. Bitcoin, to me, isn't a very good currency for shopping with the settlement times, the transaction processing times. At least at the moment, it's not particularly nimble. It's not fast enough for some of the shopping uses until we see things like the payment protocol being more broadly developed. But at the same time, I think there is a danger that if you try to make Bitcoin be more responsive for shopping, you endanger some of its other characteristics. Especially things like anonymity. And so I'm not that preoccupied with shopping because the world is really not that preoccupied with shopping outside of the narrow scope of North America and Western Europe. But yeah, I mean, it's nice. It's great. We'll have more places to spend Bitcoin and it will be a very visible way to demonstrate Bitcoin's success. Chris, Jay. Yeah, I pretty much agree with that sentiment. I think there needs to be more folks and drive on areas of the world that have the most need for financial innovation. Although I think I see this as a tag team effort, like, I think it's good to pay it doing it. But how long do you know how long this offer is going to last for if they give you any indication because they're going to suffer quite a lot financially in exchange, aren't they? They've said it's zero fees forever. But only for the email support option, there's a $300 phone support option, $300 monthly, and then there's additional option for larger businesses. So it is quite possible. They're still making some fees. But eventually, they'll have to stop doing this. No. The word says forever. I'm not sure why they'd say that. It's a big risk for them to say that. So I don't understand their business, but I've also heard they're big into payroll, and that may be a larger slice of the pie. Maybe merchants don't really matter compared to that. That would make sense because that's a huge industry. My father works in that industry, and he's noticing that that's going to go. He's like contemplating retiring now because there's no point in carrying on doing it. But what I wonder is, eventually, they're going to have to drop the freemium model. So all existing customers who signed up under the freemodel, presumably, the new customers will have to go on some kind of payment model. I don't think they have to necessarily drop the freemium model. I mean, if you think about it, the marginal cost of providing transactions on the Bitcoin network, just it's like saying, well, Skype will eventually have to drop free phone calls. No, they won't. What's driving this decision at the very basic level is the understanding that on a payment network like Bitcoin, except for the transaction fee paid by the customer, there really is no need to add overheads for transaction fees by the payment, by the merchants and the recipients. And the payment process isn't doing much. What they're really doing is offering support services. So they're shifting their model to charge for the support services rather than the underlying transactional fees. They're simply realizing that if they disrupt their own business model first, they get to that place faster and that disrupts the other payment providers much more than it disrupts them. And I think so therefore, I don't see why the freemium model should end. I mean, this is the structure of the network. It encourages exactly that kind of economic model. Very good. I think their real costs are advertising and getting new businesses, which is something that Bitcoin evangelists are willing to do for them for free or for a small cut with their referral program. And now that they're offering zero fees, it's not much easier for the evangelists to work. So they're basically have a free workforce, I think. Right. Christoff, Atlas, your thoughts. Yeah, when I hear that bit pay is going to be free that they're waving their transaction fees, this brings up some concerns for me. I mean, I'm sure it's very good that they're doing this, the market of Bitcoin goes on and raw off for all of that. But the first thing that it makes me think of is this kind of movement in Silicon Valley that Christoff has talked about before, which is rather than trying to charge your customers for money, you monetize them, you've monetized their data. Now recently, the Bitcoin ecosystem became aware of some allegations against Coinbase, a researcher from perhaps Belgium or something like that. He presented a late last fall some findings. He was talking about browser fingerprinting and he wrote some tools that kind of crawl the web looking for websites that attempt to fingerprint users browsers. And what this means is the server is deliberately challenging the browser with a series of queries to try and find out what's what this person looks like uniquely to that website and kind of learning about their identity without actually the user himself giving up any information. So you're finding out who this particular user is without the user saying, yeah, here's my name, here's my phone number, etc. And so what the researcher found was that Coinbase was also doing this. And Coinbase has since then said, oh well, we're doing this because we use this as an anti theft measurement. Although, I've actually seen a lot of people have their funds stolen from Coinbase recently and there's no evidence that this kind of browser fingerprinting is actually being used to protect customer funds. So I wonder about that. But my fear is that when you have these third party processors like Coinbase, like BitPay, there's a huge temptation there for them to collect data about the people that are transacting and then to monetize that. And so I wonder when they're saying, okay, we're just waving all our fees. It's like, okay, so where are they getting the money from? I'm really concerned about the temptation for them to sell that data that they're collecting, whether they're doing it passively or actively. And it seems that they're doing it actively now to third parties, whether it's advertising companies, whether it's other people in the Bitcoin space that can somehow turn that information into money or whether it's governments or fees, or I don't know who, you know, there's a lot of different interested parties that would want to collect that data. And of course, they're making these whenever they collect this data into a database, they make themselves a target for hacking by the NSA, by thieves, by hackers, and so forth. So this is a concern for me and I think that's very important for us, for us, as consumers, to pay very close attention to what are the privacy policies and what exactly are these companies doing with our information and making sure that we're choosing appropriately based on those kind of choices that these companies are making. There's also a little bit of standard oil in their response. They really are running their competitors out of town on a rail, so I'll have to watch that. There's no such thing as a safe or prudent monopoly. Will Pangman. Yeah, so I think we're still pretty far from total adoption, but only far on the timeline that is Bitcoin, which moves incredibly fast. So maybe we are only a few years away. It still feels kind of far because right now there's still a barrier to entry and the uncertainty around regulations is a big problem for a lot of would-be adoptees and businesses, merchants accepting Bitcoin, too. So lowering to zero, I mean, Derek mentioned that number zero is very big, very powerful number in bargaining and negotiation. There is no reason for a business not to accept Bitcoin unless it's just too labor-intensive to implement it. That's the only reason now. The reason this is important, and I agree very much with Andreas and Chris' points. But the reason it is important to spread merchant adoption or Bitcoin as a shopping app for now is because right now this is the easiest way for small businesses, brick and mortar to accept Bitcoin and the small business owners behind those businesses. Capitalizing some of your business, even a very small portion of it in Bitcoin is a very good move, long-term and five-year plan type of thinking. And the easiest way to get Bitcoin is to earn it nowadays. So that's where the lower-est barrier to entry is for newcomers, is either find someone who's happily donating, like blockchain.info with those new cards they're giving out to some evangelists or just tipping, like we mentioned with Change Tip, many go to new meetups, you can get three millibits there. Anytime you see any one of us on this panel, you'll probably get some millibits. But yeah, that's the lower-est barrier to entry. And once you put some Bitcoins in someone's hands, they're hooked, whether it's a merchant or a consumer, and that's kind of a false notion, too. We're still thinking merchant consumer and this is the shopping problem, Chris and Andreas were highlighting. But again, it's about growing the network, it's about spreading the knowledge and the use of these tokens and the tools that run on the network. And we need, you know, this is a great way to do that right now. And remember that at its core, Bitcoin is a thought virus. And if we wanted to spread across the world, it's going to have to spread across here first. And if a merchant accepts it and a customer asks about it, they might get into Bitcoin. You never know. Bitcoin spreads in mysterious ways. Decentralize the world, spread the blockchain, join us at the new World Crypto Network Reddit. The World Crypto Network is much more than a television network. We also have a book club. Learn more at Reddit.com slash r slash World Crypto Network. World Crypto Network Town Hall meeting next week, which day will work best for you? Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. Join the discussion at World Crypto Network Reddit. Let's see. Issue three, Wikipedia accepts Bitcoin. At long last, they can take down that annoying begging banner. I can only assume that some big Bitcoiners will emerge to help fund the Wikipedia. And if that doesn't work, we can all throw a buck in and fund it for the rest of time. Congratulations to Coinbase, Dell, Wikipedia, New Egg, TigerDirect, Overstock. Who's next? Chris Ellis. Yeah, I was elated. Now all we need to do is get that idea. Do you remember, Kristoff and I were discussing that time about getting a tip button on a page by page basis. So if you are reading an article on Wikipedia and according to evidence, I've read 60,000 articles on Wikipedia since I've been started logging 2007. I could just tip like a millibit per article. So I get so much out of that website. And I'm ashamed to say that I don't do like a whole time of editing on there because usually someone else has already said something smarter than me by the time I do. So, you know, I think it would be really good if you could actually tip Wikipedia and tip the articles as well. Kristoff, Atlas. Yeah, I think that's very interesting. It's got me thinking so if Wikipedia is accepting tips and perhaps the users could accept tips to, this just brings up the issue of like most social media in general and like content providers. YouTube is just like begging for some kind of fix like they're the way that people get compensated for the content that they provide is just horribly broken. This ad system is very clunky and there's just like a very small number of people that get like a decent, you know, amount of a chunk of change for what they do. But for the most part, most content providers do not really get adequately compensated for what they're doing on YouTube. So I would love to see excited here that there are more tip bots that are trying to integrate with YouTube and I would love to see something integrated more directly into YouTube to allow people to receive tips. I imagine from what I understand Google is working on their own kind of digital currency version of that before but it will happen with Bitcoin. But the faster that it happens with Bitcoin or some other cryptocurrency, the better. The YouTube ad system also tramples on fair use and makes most content creators afraid to use any other kind of media in their content which pretty much ruins remixing and the rest of digital culture. The change tip bot is working in the YouTube comment section. It hasn't caught on like wildfire yet but I predict that it will. It's very easy to use once you're set up and I'm not paid to say this. I just like their product and I do get tips that way. So I use it. Will, Penguin. Yeah, Chris is right. Wikipedia is a perfect project. They're like one of the earliest champions of open source in a way that can actually touch most people who browse the web. It's great that people find, I've heard from a lot of friends that they've found their curiosity again. Thanks to Wikipedia. They've found their like intrinsic motivation, self-learning motivation again. Thanks to Wikipedia. So these are all fantastic things and it's a perfect showcase for the power of a technology such as Bitcoin. So now's the time to iterate. Now's the time to develop deeper penetration into Bitcoin integration on Wikipedia. Derek Jay. My initial fear, first of all, I'm very happy that Wikipedia will accept Bitcoin. But my initial fear was something that you sort of touched on Thomas which is that, you know, is the founder or whoever that guy is who's always begging at the top banner. Is he the one who's going to get all this Bitcoin or is it going to be the people who actually write the articles and contribute and make the product what it is that the stuff that I use? Well, I'm excited to hear about Kristen Kristoff's idea about tipping the editors. I think that's a great one. I just wonder how far that's going to go. Like, will we get such a great article, you know, the million dollar article. You could actually see how much people get paid to write this content or to edit it. And now it opens up a new possibility of like viral articles. This content just cannot be ignored. It's so good. You must go and watch and pay for this content. It's a cool new window that's opened here. Oh, and who's next Amazon? I mean, they should check in with gift and see how many people are already using Bitcoin to buy stuff from their website. And they're not even getting in on any of that sweet actions. The possibilities with cryptocurrencies and Wikipedia are immense. I mean, Wikipedia is pretty good. I certainly find regularly that a lot of the stuff that I tried to look a lot on Wikipedia is incomplete, vague, not hugely well researched. Because especially if you're looking into more esoteric things. So Bitcoin, you know, fundamentally, is a price discovery mechanism. And there is no price discovery mechanism for Wikipedia right now. Whether you can contribute, complete crap, whether it's contributing of incorrect information, et cetera, you don't really get anything for doing one versus the other other than kind of a feel good experience. With price discovery, people could actually be incentivized and paid based on how well that they're contributing and other users can evaluate that and the amount they receive can increase based on their reputation score and how people are rating the content that they're actually providing. And you can receive less money if you're contributing stuff that's incorrect. So there's some pretty immense possibilities there. I don't actually expect this really to happen with Wikipedia. I think it's grown into kind of a bureaucratic beast. And I expected it to be a fork of Wikipedia that actually succeeds in this. And the difference between the two is going to be similar to the difference between Wikipedia and your average encyclopedia. The encyclopedias were pretty good, but they were nothing compared to Wikipedia. The difference between Wikipedia and a fork that has an actual price discovery mechanism for quality content is going to be just tremendous. That version of Wikipedia is going to be so good that there's going to be practically nothing that you can't learn from it. I want to just chime in just real quick. I think of Bitcoin and the blockchain itself as an unfabricatable history timeline in a lot of times. If we could just get some knowledge and some texts on blockchains, they could be irrefutable. Revisionist history would be gone. And this is kind of what Christoph's fork of Wikipedia could become. Good points, excellent ideas on the Wikipedia. And Derek, I think the most of the Wikipedia money is probably going to go to their server costs. Unfortunately, the Wikipedia is not distributed on Bitcoin, as I have suggested for many, many years. It's still on a web server model. And Trash, do you say Bitcoin or BitTorrent? BitTorrent, sorry. I don't know which one I said. And Trash, your thoughts on the Wikipedia? Well, I think everyone here has already commented on the aspect of content creators being compensated for their work and how cryptocurrencies can help that. I want to look at Wikipedia from a slightly different perspective and look at it in terms of the sharing economy. And so if I was to look at what I would like to see in terms of cryptocurrencies yet next, I would like to see adoption by other sharing economy companies. The ones that come to mind immediately are Airbnb, Uber, Lyft, and things like that. But generally speaking, anything where individuals can contribute and then get compensated for contributing something, something they already own in a sharing economy, I think that would create a tremendous new boost for those. It would make them much less susceptible to regulatory interference in the cities where they are getting regulatory interference. And it would open up a whole new audience who could earn Bitcoin, as we said, that's the best way to get Bitcoin through sharing some of the resources they already have. And so yeah, I'd love to see it in some of those companies. Wikipedia, you know, with the monetization idea on a per page basis, could bridge the gap between content creators and sharing economy and put some Bitcoin in a lot of people's pockets. Imagine if you're a student at a university and I have potentially an incentive to spend quite a bit of your time improving articles in Wikipedia. And I love the crystal of idea of using this kind of A, B testing environment where you present different versions of a Wikipedia article. And the ones that receive the best response in terms of tips earn the people who wrote the revisions that differentiate them more, essentially rewarding correctness, at least from the perspective of the reader. All of these are great ideas. And it shows what you can do when you have the ability to combine both micro payments, seamless and easy transactions and collaboration among millions of people. Moving on, issue four, new Bitcoin challenger launches. Jed McKaylor, founder of Mt. Gox, co-founder of Ripple is back with Stripe and Stellar. In what sounds like another Ripple clone but could be much more, Stellar allows you to send dollars, pesos, euros across the internet, fascinating, and dress your thoughts on Stellar. I think an overlay network that allows you to exchange assets has always been a good idea. I thought it was a good idea when Ripple did it poorly. I think it's a good idea now that Stellar might be doing it a bit better. Who knows? Maybe it's resolved some of the original mistakes made with Ripple. But creating decentralized exchanges for taking assets, debts, or obligations, collateral obligations between people and transferring them as tokens across the network. That's great. And I would disagree a bit with the framing of the story. I don't think this is a contender to Bitcoin. I think if anything, it's a framework inside of which Bitcoin can thrive. And it's a framework that will both enable greater participation in Bitcoin by creating decentralized exchanges. And also allows Bitcoin to highlight some of its best features when directly compared with other assets that will be harder to move. So from that perspective, I think these overlay decentralized networks might be great news for Bitcoin rather than the contender. So let's see how it plays out. It's certainly interested. I hope this time it's open source from the beginning. It's not pre-mined. It's structured as an open community and it's based on open standards. And if it is, let's hope it's successful. Chris, Jay. Yeah, I need to spend more time looking at this. Is it based on a blockchain? It's tough to say it's a centralized server type model. It doesn't sound like there's mining. Yeah, okay. Then in which case, yeah, I'm not I'm not too in favor of if it's not decentralized. That's what I thought. Christoph Atlas. Yeah, it kind of sounds like a PayPal 2.0 scheme to me. I'd like to see some more technical details based on what has been announced or what I've read about it so far. It's completely disinteresting to me. It's also very similar to the Circle project where it was a B-Rone bank type project. Will payment. Sorry. Yeah, I think it's really interesting. You know, it's certainly not a contender as the article headline poorly asserts, I guess. Prolific, interesting team. They're making it a nonprofit instead of for-profit. So they're following some of these interesting new strategies that entrepreneurs are bringing. There's a really great article by Daniel Kraywitz, I think is how his name is pronounced on the Nakamoto Institute website, which I think is just Nakamoto Institute.org. And it's about just his suggestions. I mean, he uses a lot of should statements in there, but really it's just an argument for entrepreneurship to be more philanthropic and less venture capital, profit seeking based. Not that profits won't come, but his argument is that doing it this way is more community driven and increases the value overall of the Bitcoin network at the expense of maybe increasing the value of any particular business. Maybe not the expense as the right word to use, but encourage you all to check that out. It's very interesting. I'm not sure I agree with everything on there, but I like the fellow-thropic kind of angle. Maybe this could be the remittances vehicle that we're all looking for. And it's not totally decentralized, and I don't believe it's on a blockchain, but it is like interestingly trying to be a distributed system. So yeah, just do some more looking into it, and we'll all see if it works. I think it'll have more success than Ripple. Derek J. All right, guys, I have an idea. It's a new digital currency called AwesomeCoin, and it's on the really cool payment network. And you can send money over the internet with it. I mean, I don't mean to poo-poo innovation, but I don't use government war dollars because I don't want the blood on my hands. I use Bitcoin because it's the currency of the free people. I can see this stellar thing being a useful tool for some folks, but I'm not interested in dragging the old legacy system into this 21st century. It can die cold, alone, and unwanted. It will, however, blur the lines for regulators and Bitcoin naysayers, and that could be good for Bitcoin, adoption, and freedom in general. Subterfuge. Exit question. Stellar, Ripple, or neither? And J.S. I don't know. I don't know enough about either. I would say neither. I still think that the the important thing to focus on is the blockchain invention, the ability to have fully decentralized transfer of value. I think all other imitations pale by comparison. I think some of them have their use, but they have to fit in within that invention, otherwise there's not much point. But I don't know enough about Stellar to know. I know definitely not Ripple. Chris J. Yeah, that's a classic sign by Kretsky, the great one. You don't go where the puck is being. You go where it's going. I think that's exactly what this is here. Chris, stop at this. Seems like you're still muted. You've picked the mute off. Sorry, hardware mute. So yeah, I'm kind of more focused on these next generation decentralized exchanges that are blockchain based or perhaps DHT based. I'm very excited about OpenBizar. I think that's going to be a much more interesting technology than this Paypal 2.0 stuff. Will, Penguin. Yeah, I agree with Kristov. Those other projects are very interesting to me. I think they are the future that's the future I want to see anyway. However, I think today Ripple is out, but Stellar is not. Stellar is in. So today, Stellar could be a really practical way to do remittances. The problem with remittances right now with Bitcoin alone is the hands on the other end of the remittance, having trouble converting back into their local currency. Now, it's not as much trouble as it might seem in so many places around the world increasingly day by day by day, but it's still an objection when you're pitching the idea to folks. Of course, those who have the most pain points will find a way around it. But maybe this is a practical tool that can be put into use today and be useful immediately. I hope to see it that way. There's the giveaway model giving away free tokens to just about anybody who signs up is interesting. I'm not, you know, there's so much and the debt-based transactions, like the fact that their debt-based is also something I'm not too big on. But yeah, I'm interested to see what happens. If it's useful today and if some people can benefit from it, it could be a good idea. Derek, Chad. Neither. Neither. So Ripple completely shut out. And just for those that are interested, DHT stands for distributed hash tables such as BitTorrent or OpenBizar. Check it out, DHT. Moving on to issue five, overstock.com has been busy this week, extending Bitcoin payments worldwide. There it is. And launching a radical, let's see, offering bonuses in Bitcoin and launching a radical plan to reinvent the stock market by offering shares on counterparty, cutting the banks out of the IPO game. Overstock.com, great Bitcoin company or the greatest Bitcoin company. Kristoff, Atlas. Yeah, I really admire Patrick Bern what he's doing with this group of currency stuff. I think that he's one of these rare CEOs that has actually some principles. Most CEOs are just kind of like really good at turning the government into their bitch so they can make a billion dollars off of that. And I think he actually has some actual providing value to the market trueness. And Bitcoin is, I bet like his investors are pretty kind of nervous seeing all this Bitcoin stuff that he's doing because it's quite radical, quite going off the the the broken path. But he has a long history of doing that apparently. And I think that here's the weird thing. Like clearly he has some ideological interest in it, but I think he actually may have enough vision to make it a profitable endeavor for overstock as well. And that's pretty impressive. They're very, you know, there are big coins CEOs and the half like fractions of what he has in terms of his corporation. And then outside of that, there's not many people that have like a really clear vision of what this, what the future of crypto finance looks like. But he has that vision that I think he's going to actually realize it. So good on him for speeding up the future. Will Pangman. Yeah, I've made no secret. My admiration for Patrick Byrne. I've been following him since 2006, seven with regard to his investigation and called deep capture, which has to do with the naked short selling and derivatives frauds going on in the lead up to the 2008 crisis. So he has a lot of foresight and there isn't a person I would think in the Bitcoin community that could do a better job of successfully executing the first public issuance on a blockchain. And really spearhead the transition to like a probably, cryptographically proven, secured, transparent stock market. So which is going to just be a major, major step in the ultimate transition to more of these blockchain technologies, being ubiquitous in our life and our behavior. So yeah, he just knows all the right buttons to press in my experience watching him so closely for years. And he, you know, despite the naysayers and the character assassination attempts just continues to steamroll with like just he's very calm and very just articulate. Yeah, I like him a lot and I'm really glad that he's on our team. Derek Jay. Greatest Bitcoin company. Patrick Byrne gets it. He sees the technology as something that can be used to bring freedom to the world. And while he's not open about that, that's what he's doing. Anything that he's doing, I'm interested in amplifying. Overstock.com is the best Bitcoin company better than BitPay or Coinbase because he seems to have more of a disruptive and disobedient nature. He's the kind of CEO who asks forgiveness rather than permission. Notice too that overstock, you know, not only were they one of the first large companies to accept Bitcoin, but one of the the first large company to hold on to some of that Bitcoin to start talking about paying their bonuses out to employees for in Bitcoin and giving them, you know, better bonuses for those that choose Bitcoin routes. That is some real innovation that goes well beyond simply just allowing people to send your their Bitcoins to you and the cashier in the amount immediately for Warbox. Andres Antonopoulos. Okay, I'll admit to I'm a fanboy. I'm a burn fanboy too. And I had the privilege of seeing him speak at the Bitcoin in the Beltway conference. It was the first on my song Speak Live and I was extremely impressed. I've always been following his his work in this space. So of the three stories I'd like to focus on the last one and do a bit of analysis on that one, you know, to hash include fanboys statements that's move on. The interesting thing here is the declaration that he's going to be doing an offering based on counter party. I think this is really interesting for a number of reasons. We've seen semi offerings happen by a number of different companies. And just a few months ago, I think we're a couple maybe a couple of months ago. We saw the SEC move against Eric Voorhees for his offering in the early days of Bitcoin that they characterized as an offering and they find him for that for essentially an unlicensed offering of securities for Satoshi dies. That was the opening shot and what will be a protracted war of control over the ability for companies to raise capital using cryptocurrency blockchains instead of the traditional monopolistic markets that have structured IPOs with guarantors and all of these other things that are very cozy, cozy closed system. Both in terms of who can make the offering in the first place, but even more so in terms of who's in a credit to the investor and can participate in that offering. That is a very cozy, very corrupt, parasitic capitalism system which benefits a few companies directly. So the SEC is already going to war against offerings of securities on the blockchain. Well, we just rolled out the big guns because Overstock is already a public listed company. They already have the license to make public offerings. They already have all of the regulations done. They're just choosing a different market. And that is the kind of weapon that's very difficult to fight back again. So that last story, if Overstock does make an offering on counter-party, the SEC will have a very difficult argument to make that counter-party isn't the right market to do that because Overstock is a public listed company that fulfills all of the regulations. Can do an offering in pretty much any market in the world it wants. It can list all of the Japanese stock market if it wants. And so a listing on counter-party will be something completely new and they have the lawyers to back it. This is a very significant move. This could establish the first offering that cannot be shot down by the SEC. And if Overstock is successful in making the first offering on counter-party, they're going to lead the way for a lot of companies. So I'm very excited about those years. Chris, Jay. Yeah, I can't add much other than to say that I am probably the only person in the world that's actually seen all versions of his speech because I was in the Amsterdam conference and I was in Bitcoin in the beltway. And then I was a portfest as well. So I feel very privileged and very lucky to have seen it kind of evolve a little bit and change a little bit. So yeah, I'm a big fan too. It was a great speech. He's one of the first serious people that I've ever seen mentioned the book Snow Crash publicly. And we're now reading Snow Crash in the World Crypto Network book club. So if you want to join us, we just did the first section. And I'd also like to add that Overstock.com sponsors the Oakland Athletics Coliseum in Oakland. And when the Oakland A's play in the World Series, I hope I'll be there with Overstock.com. So think of me. Moving on, Issue 6, which is more than usual. Coinapult pulls out of the US. Are you happy now, Super Nintendo? Do you see what you did? Siding the new policy coinapult, a new technology that allows you to send Bitcoins using text messages as pulled out of the United States, saying that they planned to focus on developing lesser banked markets. Has the great United States Bitcoin brain drain begun? Chris Ellis. Yeah, I sent you a reply on Twitter telling you that you were now in a developing country. Your country is slowly evolving. It downgrade our access to technology. Yeah, you lost your trip player a long time ago, but boy, you guys in the gutter now. Sorry about that. No love for the colonies. Kristoff Katlis. Yeah, are we a developing country or are we an undeveloping country? I think that it might be the latter. Will, Penguin. Yeah, so I knew about this coming up. And I was excited for it. I knew vaguely of it. Check out the promotional video. It was done by a company that I is near and dear to my heart. Pink Guy Group. They do animated explainer videos. So you'll hear the melodious tones of one's Dr. Stephanie Murphy if you watch that video and it's really, really cool video. Anyway, it's expected. Coinbase or Coinapult, rather, I don't think was actively involved in any real US, many US customers at all for the last year or more. So this isn't really new for them. And it's the wise move on their part. I mean, I see so many Bitcoin businesses incorporating offshore in the last year. And the few that do in the US, it's interesting to see the business models and the founders and the leaderships and the advisory boards. And how these smart people might decide to do that. I mean, it's not a foregone conclusion that the US is going to be hostile to Bitcoin, but it's getting there. It's really close. And hopefully, it doesn't get all the way there. Derek J. This has been happening for long since before Bitcoin and Coinapult. So don't blame Super Nintendo. It wasn't his fault. He's just a symptom of a bigger disease, which is fascism. Freedom and the courage to use it is the solution. And Jai Santana, please. Yeah, I was really surprised when the World Headquarters of Paracetic Capitalism decided that they didn't like Bitcoin. It was really quite a shocker. And in fact, that they didn't like exactly those parts of Bitcoin that most subvert the existing paradigm. And that they then passed regulations to try to make Bitcoin much more like the parasitic capitalism model that they're used to. And then that the rest of the world told them to go stuff it and started pulling their operations out of New York. It's come as a complete shocker. Listen, New York and London are going to be the last places that Bitcoin succeeds, the last bastions of parasitic capitalism. And they will fiercely protect the incumbent industries because those industries will continue to be extremely profitable until they are extremely bankrupt. And that transition will happen very, very quickly. I'm not surprised at all that New York did this. I'd like to go back to 1940s and in the United Kingdom, there was an infamous headline in the newspaper that said fog in the British channel. The continent is cut off from Britain. And that article really tells you a lot about the United Kingdom's attitude about the world. You know, poor Europeans, they can't access Britain. Well, regulations launched in New York. The world cut off from New York. The world of Bitcoin is now cut off from New York. Well, good riddance, I say. I guess who's going to lose in that particular equation? Listen, the fact that Bitcoin can't fulfill the requirements of these regulations, that's not a bug. That's a feature. Chris Stovch, did you have something to add? Yeah, I was going to say, I agree with Derek in his assessment of super Nintendo Loskey. If you look at the big picture, if the story about currencies and how cryptocurrencies are going to affect the history of currency, Benjamin, if that was Lord of the Rings, right? Benjamin Loskey would be like one of these trolls that gets hit by an arrow and falls off the bridge and he's in frame for like half a second in the movie. He's not doing anything innovative or different to where it's interesting whatsoever. It's the same crap that we've been dealing with, you know, the same kind of fiat currency protectionism that we've been experiencing for a very, very long time. So he's not an interesting character in this saga. Yeah, I just want to echo Christoph really quick regarding Loskey. You know, I think Bruce Fenton really hit the nail on the head. His descriptors and his arguments for his descriptors of Loskey were, you know, very solid. Whether that's how Loskey intends himself to be or not, maybe just thinks himself important because of the position he has. And, you know, I could be wrong, but I'm not willing to ascribe malicious intent. I think these people think they're supposed to do this and they're wrong, unfortunately, for them. You know, so it's really, it's interesting. We don't, like Fenton says, don't engage that particular entity, but, you know, you might have more success in some other more influential areas that would listen. You know, they've made evidence clear that they are not willing to listen. I mean, they don't respond to these things. There's this letter going around signed by hundreds of Bitcoin entrepreneurs, some of whom I'm very surprised by and, you know, it's like asking the bully on the playground to wait until after school to punch you instead of during lunch hour is what I think this letter is asking for this 45 day extension to 45 days. I don't know. I don't know what that's going to do. What buying time is going to do? Nothing. And I'm glad we finally have some Lord of the Rings references on this show. Hat tip to mad bitcoins and Bitcoin not bombs for their original reporting on that last story, journalism like a boss. This next story we're not supposed to talk about because we're trying to keep politics off the show with all left, right, divide and all that, but this one slices right through and we have no choice but to acknowledge that President Obama we tortured some folks. That's right. Folks. This is the language of George W. Bush who originally launched the CIA's torture programs under his control. Thus he's also responsible. Now President Obama is saying that torture is acceptable and torturing some folks presumably a limited number of folks, presumably bad folks like Mr. President Bush said the evil doers is acceptable, but it's not acceptable. Torture is a war crime under the Geneva Convention. President George W. Bush is guilty of these war crimes as well as vice president Cheney and the rest of their organization and now President Obama seems to be accepting and taking on these war crimes. So we say bad form. Anyone else want to add anything on the torture issue? We can go and order if you want or we'll leave it. All the first victim of war is language and at least we're not calling it an enhanced interrogation. The 6,300 page report from the Intelligence Committee shows that torture was in fact used, was brutal, was widespread, and that the organizations that would involve primarily the Klandestine section of the CIA lied to Congress repeatedly about both the extent, the brutality and the complete futility of torture. So the next question is really simple. What three precautions will occur and who's going to jail? War crimes were committed, war criminals have been identified. Will those war criminals be punished? And the answer is really quite simple. They won't. Yeah, I would just say you know this is the only tool they know. This is all they have on their side violence, whether it's you know, law ski or another regulator or you know lawmakers or the president with with these quotes or even those policies that you know, warrant the quote. That's the only thing they know. Everything else is a nail and you know more and more people will I think come to realize this. I think you know Bitcoin is the way people see a lot of these truths that have been obfuscated by very very clever PR campaigns over decades if not centuries. So let's start to see the this thing for what it is and they think they're entitled to use force. That's why their arguments don't have to stand on their own merits. That's why they don't receive really any real retribution or consequences. You know, so once more people realize this, we'll start to seek out models where merit is is accounted for and desired. Chris, sorry, direct. Did you ask me something? Yeah, I want to say that peace starts with you. I know that sounds cliche, but I really believe it's true that if we want world peace, then each of us has to embrace peace in our own lives and part of what that means for me is separating myself from the war machine, the war dollars, not using that. Bitcoin represents a really helpful alternative to spending money in the real world transitioning away from those war dollars and towards peace. What I'm showing here on screen are a couple of my friends who today are speaking with some folks about Bitcoin. They've got a sign you can sort of see it in the back says got Bitcoin. They have a sky hook, the vending machine in the background that people are able to use. If they would like to change their fiat dollars into Bitcoins right onto their phones, they can get a wallet set up there and then they can slowly transition off of the old world and towards a more voluntary world. Chris, stop. Yeah, I wanted to sympathize with the people who get into Bitcoin for because they think it's kind of a cool technology and they have some, they may think that they may agree with some of the underlying principles or consequences of Bitcoin, but as far as like this kind of like, you know, compared to the status quo, radical and our co-capitalist kind of viewpoint, like I can, this stuff has got to be kind of overwhelming and intense. It's intense for someone to say to you if you've never heard this before that we live in a murder based society that we live in a society where we have this like fantasy where we passed ballots behind these different psychopass. I mean, for you to say that make this statement, we tortured some folks. That is your mental health isn't a really, really awful place if you're able to make that statement with a straight face. I mean, that's that's kind of stuff where someone says that you need to be like really concerned for their mental well-being and whether they're going to be a harm to other people around them and of course, Barack Obama is a tremendous harm to the people around him and all over the world. So, you know, I want to take a moment to really sympathize with people that it's sometimes going to be uncomfortable to be in the Bitcoin scene because it's going to kind of hold up a magnifying glass to some of these uncomfortable truths. But I actually think that's a very good thing like what I've noticed in local meetups that I've attended and so forth is that when people first start attending, there's some people that already die hard, you know, libertarians and archocapalists, anarcho-socialists, whatever. And then there's some people that are kind of like just more average people and they're like, oh, that's kind of the coin. It's kind of cool. And they get into the first meeting and whenever politics come up, they're kind of like, whoa, this is this is pretty intense, but then they come to their second third meeting fourth meeting and after a while, like they've really, you really noticed how much that they're understanding of the world and when it comes to politics has really advanced in that short period of time. And so I think one of the cool side effects of Bitcoin, and we can see that we're talking about this on the show, a Bitcoin show, is that it really brings up these important issues for people and really encourages people to like rethink their fundamental understanding of how the world works. That is one of the fundamental tenets, one of the fundamental phenomena of Bitcoin is rethinking how the world works. And I think that's quite cool. Very good. Chris Ellis, your thoughts on torturing some folks. Your governments have always had an ophthalm violence. Those were the words of Barack Obama, of course. When you torture another human being or you act in unconscious way, you lose some of your own humanity too. And yeah, this is really sad. I've also been saddened by some other things that have been going on in the world at the moment. The West is already at war with Russia, as Andrea said, the first casualty of war is language or also truth. That's another version of that same saying. And we've already seen on the BBC, when I watched the news ever since MH17, we've had nothing but anti-Putin, anti-Russian propaganda, even one of my most respected journalists, Steven Sacker on Hardtalk, who actually I modeled my Chris before coffee show on. I even studied his style and his format to try and get in some of his hard talk tactics. And last night, he just did this interview with the more more Dovan president. And I don't know if you know, but they're thinking of taking that into the Russian Federation. And they deliberately set up the shots with his interview so that it was in like a Parisian style kind of cafe to make it look really European, you know, because this guy's like wants to be part of the EU. So the EU is just, it looks to me like, if they want that to turn that into the United States of Europe. And even though we've got very, very different cultures here, so this is all about consolidation. And it's all about building databases of human beings. And the reason why governments are acting like this, one thing governments always have done, they've always maintained the status quo. And of course, they have been monopoly environments, but also the individual has been getting more powerful over time. Democracy was actually an admittance that the government doesn't have that much power. It was like a compromise. It was like, okay, okay, the mob is going to take over. So we'll give you a little bit of power. But I think Andreas has said this on a Let's Talk Bitcoin before. Information now travels so quickly across geography that these people are largely irrelevant. And we just need a firmware upgrade. Like everyone just needs to be woken up to the fact that like Derek says, the peace starts with you. So, you know, can I segue into the town hall meeting next week? Right. So next week, next week, we've, let me just get it up here. Well, first of all, I wanted to just say how embarrassed I am on behalf of everyone in the Bitcoin community of this shock of a fucking website by the Bitcoin foundation that this has actually changed. They did originally have a picture of a Ugandan kid on there. And for a combination of reasons, they took it down partly because the video that it alluded to has had some criticisms of the guy in Uganda is running like a local Bitcoin exchange has not actually been able to use his bitcoins. So they kind of took that down, having come up some criticism. And I just want to scroll down here to their work. This is where they try to justify themselves. And one of their core claims is that they compensate three full-time core developers. Now, let's scroll down a little bit more and then you get to the conversion. This is where they want you to convert, right? They want to turn you from a non-customer into a paying customer. There are two types of people outside of any business, a non-customer and a customer. And they want to turn you into one of those. And so basically what they're telling you is that core development can't be paid for unless you go through them. Well, I've got news for you. You can pay for it, developer. That's the whole fucking point of Bitcoin. So you don't have to join these stupid like cartels. I'm really getting sick of this behavior. I'm really getting sick of the way they pretend like, look at the language on here. Like they're pretending like they own this shit. That anyone coming in from outside. Look at this image, right? With all these mobed heads in the background. They deliberately, I worked in advertising. I can tell you they spent a long time looking through pictures that weren't too continental, but didn't look too much like there was a developing country. It had to look as wide as possible. The advertising industry always goes to the lowest common denominator. It tries to find imagery and language that works for as many people as possible because that's the most cost effective way of doing it. I've worked on tons of these microsites before. And this looks like it's just another Twitter bootstrap website. There's just gone through a bunch of marketers. So there is an alternative. In fact, I encourage you to set up your own foundation, your own locality. You don't have to use ours, but we have a town hall meeting next week. You can pick your day. Tuesday Wednesday, Wednesday, Thursday or Friday. Pick your day. I'm updating it on the GitHub. We've got our articles of association up. Article 2 is, tell shit how it really is. We've got some really, really good articles and manifesto here with good legalese. I highly recommend you check that out. Of course, you can fork it. You're very welcome to fork it. But one of the things that I want to talk about next week, and this is going to be a public hangout, okay? Anyone can join, particularly if you're a fan of the show. I haven't broadcast it over like too far because I don't want it to get too crowded, but I do want anyone that's kind of pledged that support for World Crypto over the last six, seven months since we've been going to join in. And one of the ideas we want to promote is, you know, decentralize the blockchain. Get the blockchain out on USB sticks to areas of the world that are just getting on board with that bandwidth. Preferably places that have 50k or more, which means they can download every day's blockchain in about an hour and a half, okay? So we send out a copy of the 24 gigabyte blockchain. We bootstrap them with a Qt with Armory wallet, with all the essentials, Linux distributions. But the other thing that we want to do is we also want to take advantage of something called jurisdictional arbitrage. Jurisdictional arbitrage is a technique used by global corporations to evade tax, by going to regions of the world that have the most favorable tax policies. So they put all of their losses into countries like America in the UK where the tax burden is higher. And they put all their profits into places like Ireland, like places like Luxembourg where the tax threshold is much lower. Well, we can play that game too. So we've had people from Nepal, South America. Today I spoke to a monk, Buddhist monk from Thailand who's been watching my show Chris before coffee and he really likes what I'm saying. And he has now sent, he has now downloaded Armory, he's installed it and he sent me his raw public key. We can now set up multi-signature wallets between us, like on the show and our audience members, particularly the ones that keep reaching out to us and we keep having conversations with them. And we can start raising funds like for example this for our Lewis guy, I'll show you his, this is his monastery, he showed me like pictures, I had a long conversation with him on Skype today. And he wants to raise money for like a secular center that so it's not going to be like a Buddhist center but it's going to be a center for help kids do learning, or anyone, anyone can just turn up to this monastery and kind of engage in like activities. And he wants to raise some money. So one of the things we can do is we can set up jurisdictional multi-signature wallets in areas of the world that have the most favorable laws for Bitcoin. Right? So that way the World Crypto Network can never be shut down. Because in order for the governments to shut us down they'd have to collaborate. And guess what, they're not very good at. They're not very good at collaborating. So in order to shut us down, they'd have to get good at the very fucking thing we wish they'd get good at. They'd have to get really good at communicating. So we still need to work out how this is going to work. Robert hits the road. Pai Rebel and me, who joins me on my regular show every Wednesday afternoon, has we've already tried out a multi-seag. It seems to work. There's a new version of Bitcoin Armory, which you've got to BitcoinArmory.com. You can go download that's 0.92. So what do you think, guys? Woo! What are you like that? I like hearing all the questions. But I'm a bit worried that such inflammatory language might discourage regulators from working with you and you won't be able to appeal to their better nature. So I was thinking if we just tone it down a tiny bit, also appeal to their better nature and put in some language about anti-money laundering and know your customer, maybe regulators would be nicer to us. What do you think? Yeah, I think all of the Twitter, there's a good chance that he'll join the World Crypto Network any day now. Yeah, I'll go for a tele-shit like it is, Manifesto, before I go for some melee mouth, weaselie excuses any day. That's a good one. Yeah, I'm not a no-too-reamie to the World Patriot Network because I thought that would really please the regulators. I think one of the coolest features that you mentioned, Chris, is the ability to have a multi-sake wallet with some of the viewers who are around the world who projects funded. That is revolutionary. So what's good about this is that Frail Louis, who sort of reached out to me on the feathercoin form originally, he may not necessarily have the most secure environment. So if he gets his laptop stolen and we've got two of the keys and we're looking after them for him, he's still got protection from his funds. Now he's since actually told me that as a monk, apparently, in Thailand, you can't be arrested as long as you abide by the code, the monastic code. He can't be arrested, which is actually very powerful. I might actually consider converting to Buddhism. That's a pretty good law because then what he can do is he can hold one of the private keys. We can, you know, some of our other fundraisers and no government can go into Thailand and take them off of him. So he's still got control over it. Anyway, I probably, I don't know, I shouldn't say that to him, maybe he didn't want me to tell him the whole world that, but I did anyway, because I'm so excited. But, you know, one of the other things we've got to talk about are things like this sortition. We need to work out because I want the, well, I propose that the leadership should be random or pseudo-random so that the people that are available to run the network can be available. But you want to get the psychopaths to deselect at the door, right? So what psychopaths will want? They want control and they want it now. So if you make the leadership pseudo-random so you get seven and none of the seven know who's coming up in the next three months to run the thing, hopefully that should discourage any psychopath from ever running for an election in the first place. And I like the fact that the funding can be elastic so that people can kind of come and go as their energy wanes. Really it's about making sure that the people that get the jobs are the people that bring the most energy to those roles. And you want to make the organization fairly flexible in that way. I like that a lot, you know, that the only barrier to entry is your time and energy that is wonderful. That is how Bitcoin began. And I really, you know, just applaud you, Chris, for putting so much of this together. And I can't wait to participate. Cool. We'll get people to know. It really shut us down. They'd have to go and do it to bet into a Thailand Buddhist monastery and talk to a monk. It's great that he can't be arrested. I think that's so cool. Don't you? We should make a list of countries that have weird laws like that. Like where if you convert to like a particular religion, the government can't arrest you because as far as I'm aware, they don't have any extradition treaties. Thailand's a nightmare. So like to like for other governments to support a monarchy as well. And it's like having diplomatic immunity, which of course dog Burke defined as a license to kill and steal. Moving on to questioning Jeremy and seven others. Thank Andres for coming back. Andres had to leave early. So we're going to continue with questions without him. Eric says that the Andres feature, if all of his thought fingers were thumbs, he wouldn't have enough thumbs to give up for that one. So people like Andres on the show. Darmocracy asks, do folks have the same rights as humans? It's a good question. Apparently not the right not to be tortured anymore. Or even the right as an American citizen not to be killed by your own government just because you went on vacation outside the country. All the gloves are off these days. Jay, I just wanted to comment briefly like you really get the sense that with people like Obama, they perceive that there are different species amongst us human beings. You know, there's there's them and then there's like it's a very it's very much a caste system. But of course, his language is so populist and so so democratic. It's a populist caste system. It's very acceptable. Jay Syborsky says the blockchain is the ultimate way back machine for transactions. Good point. Red Herring mentions the USB hack slash exploit. Is this a serious threat? If so, how can we protect ourselves? And for those of you who haven't heard, there's going to be a presentation at the new BlackHack Convention, which is a hacker convention in Vegas before Defcon. And what they've basically done, it's absolutely brilliant. They've taken the firmware on a USB stick, a standard just like one of these little key fob. And what they do is when the USB key fob goes into your computer, it says that it's a keyboard or it says that it's a network card and it takes over your computer. And it's really difficult to remove, really difficult to figure out. Anyone's thoughts on this, Kristoff, your thoughts. Yeah, that was going to be my story of the week. But yeah, so this is something that, like security experts have been talking about for a while as a theoretical attack, something that people could do if they put it enough time into it. There's significant reason to believe that the NSA has been using devices, USB devices for targeted attacks on individuals. And these devices were bought from private military contracting companies to do exactly this type of thing. It's not a huge huge amount of stuff. It's not so sophisticated that if you had a few hundred thousand dollars, you couldn't accomplish this thing. It's not beyond the reach of many researchers. So yeah, I think it does. For the Bitcoin scene, it's quite relevant because we use USB for a lot of stuff. If you want to do any kind of offline stuff, you use USB a lot. A lot of people think that their computer is just like, you know, their virus tree, they're so diligent about not downloading email attachments. And so there's no way that malware got on there. They're computer, which is kind of funny. But yeah, so like anytime that you're, I mean any USB device fundamentally is an untrusted device. You're not going to be able to like keep watch over all of your USB devices 24 or 7 to make sure they haven't been tampered with. You don't know the supply chain by which your USB devices were handed to you. Lots of computers these days, don't even actually have like an optical drive anymore. So if you want to have, even if you wanted to burn things to CDs to avoid the use of the user at USB, guess what? You're going to put that that optical disk inside of an optical drive that connects to your computer through USB. So it's kind of a giant cluster fuck. This has always been the problem with, you know, USB, USB micro USB that plugs into mobile phones. And it's just basically our entire, you know, hardware infrastructure is just woefully broken, you know, from top to bottom. And this is just another, you know, sign of that. So do be careful with your USB devices. And particularly if you have some highly, highly sensitive machine like your offline armory wallets with it is triple encrypted and all this kind of stuff, then be very careful what you plug into that machine. And we had heard about the NSA installing devices into USB and other protocols in the past. I think Jacob Applebaum had a large presentation about built-in USB bugs, things like that. And these are coming from the factory. The NSA is installing this in everybody's computer on the off-chance that they'll get a chance to use it, basically, right? They've also, they've also intercepted in the mail people that, so like if you were on the the bad list for the TIO or targeted, sorry, T-O-A, targeted, no, targeted something, targeted attack software, I don't know what that ever is. But like, say if you're on the bad list, you order something from Amazon, they can actually legally have that redirected briefly to their, you know, their black office in Virginia and then make it very way. So you'll be like, oh, that's weird, it got delayed in Virginia. And when it arrives to you, it's already been NSA-tampered. And that's not even like Amazon or the manufacturer doing it. So yeah, the supply chain is a huge problem. Any other thoughts on the security situation? Yeah, it's a very concerning for folks who might consider themselves non-technical power users of Bitcoin. So that's how I consider myself, I guess. And I've always been very careful with all of my devices. But even that doesn't, you know, for all the reasons that Christophe just mentioned, which I was aware of, has never left me be settled. So I've even like Guns of Fars goes super low tech creating offline wallets with dice and pen and paper. And the trouble with that is, you know, you can't sign transactions offline from one of those, at least as far as I know, without encountering some of the tech vectors from at least my limited knowledge of the technical side of that. So you can sweep them, sweep the whole thing, but if you wanted to sign a transaction from it, as far as I understand. Anyway, I'd be interested to know what some solutions and work around are. It seems to me hardware wallets like the Trasor might, you know, still present a good solution for most people. And then also, I've seen lots of startups come about with getting around, and like plugging in devices at all with location-based technology, which probably has its own set of attack vectors and problems and vulnerabilities. But is interestingly more secure in ways that, you know, plugging in through USB is not. So those solutions are interesting to me too. Yeah, what are some workarounds or correct anything that I said that are missed? Yeah, I think we need to also have a duty on the World Crypto Network to report any updates on this, because soft-os and other security companies will report on this. We haven't actually seen it. I mean, this could, I don't want to, you know, be devils advocate too much, but I think this could have just been a publicity stunt. When I read those articles, this looked to me. There was a lot of surface stuff about this, you know, this event that was going on. I felt like I was being sold the event, like it was like, oh, we're going to get to see this presentation, because they didn't actually explain their methodology, and then I always get skeptical when researchers like this don't explain their methods, and they don't go into detail. It's like, wait and see, and then we'll show you. Because as far as I'm concerned, there have been many of these USB devices. I use a UBK, for example, to do two-factor authentication, and that's the keyboard. This has been well-known for some time, so I'd be curious to know, like, how would I not see what it was doing when I was putting it? Because all they're saying is they're going to use it as a keyboard. So presumably, you could do anything with a keyboard, of course. They said on Windows, there's one okay button that you'd have to accidentally push and after this. They have a keyboard on your system, and they can type in whatever they want. But you don't see it. That's why I think. It can also masquerade as a network card. So I didn't know. I think probably what will happen is that the security companies will respond, and that advises, as to whether or not this can be detected by a virus scanner. And the security is a chain, and it's only as strong as its weakest link. And in the article that I read, it said that the virus scanner or the system would ask the firmware what you are, and the firmware would lie. So it's very difficult to change the firmware on these USB sticks. The worst attack would be as if you had a USB stick with your good documents on it, and this got onto that stick. It would be almost impossible to get it off of that stick, or to determine where it's going to means re-writing the USB stand. You'd have to rewrite the IE. It appears to be incredibly insecure. I don't know the details. It's based on a design flaw in the USB standard. So you would literally have to rewrite the standard. And obviously, this wouldn't apply to any of the existing devices. You probably couldn't update them to a new version of the firmware that's not vulnerable. And USB is everywhere, every, every, every, every, it's, it's, so this is this is a big deal. They're talking about malware that can kind of live in the firmware of the device. You know, we don't, we don't touch that firmware currently for any of these devices. So it is a significant issue. It's not like some amazing new thing that no one had envisioned before. We've been like, warning about this for a long time. It's just that these researchers actually put in the effort to reverse engineer the USB firmware and figure out exactly what you need to do to implant it on there. The fundamental problem is that the USB drive, right, is like, it's a place that you can record to. It's like stone that you can kind of chip some data into. But it's also a little computer that runs arbitrary code as well. And then your computer runs arbitrary code that comes from the USB drive and all that's kind of stuff. So it's just another example of how computers are just freaking broken. But there's no reason to panic about it. There's no reason to believe that there's going to be some kind of epidemic of malware that ran, you know, transmitted through USB now as soon as they release their tool. I don't, I don't think there's anything. So this is more like this would be more a concern for people who are high value targets. And just like another thing for them to consider when they're securing their particularly their wealth or some kind of like corporate network or, you know, proprietary research data or whatever like that. And probably doesn't apply to most of the viewers of the show. So no need to panic. And much like a much like a Tom Clancy novel, it's only the governments that have been using this so far. America allegedly used this USB bug to get the stucks net virus onto Iran's center futures, which caused them to malfunction. And then the Chinese government allegedly used this technology to get into the American government to steal data and other things by, by allegedly dropping USB sticks into parking lots where employees would pick them up and then put them in their government computers. Well, I think the Chinese, I don't think there's any evidence that they use this particular bug because they don't really need to. The USB as an attack vector, just that. USB as an attack vector like USB, you drop it, yeah, put some USB sticks out in a parking lot, people are dumb enough to grab them and put them into their machines. The only thing you can really do to stop about it is if you make every single employee's machine, like they can't, they don't have ad been rights, they can't control it and they can't plug any kind of USB device into it, which is often the case for like DOD type places. But yeah, absolutely. And virus, virus getting software, the ability to detect malware is just woefully under advantage at this point. It's very easy to create your own custom loader or obfuscator to hide malware and to give it a new signature that malware companies are not ready to expect. And remember that the WikiLeaks documents were transferred out on burn CDs when Chelsea Manning was allegedly listening to Lady Gaga. So there's always a way in and out of your computer, even if you're the government and presumably very secure. But looks like Will's going to take off. See you later. Well, thanks for joining us. Oh, I wasn't saying bye. Oh, you're so confusing me in the chat. So we're going to go to four questions because there's tons of time in about the USB thing and innovation. So just real quick, I think, you know, we've seen big, big tech companies and it's a kind of backlash to some of these Snowden leaks. They're starting to some parties in those companies are starting to iterate and innovate and security and doing what I think like the the fullest realization of what Kristoff's talking about, which is a complete overhaul of software hardware security and just cryptography making that more user friendly and more ubiquitous. So this could be another growth sector that we're starting to see in tech or at least it's something I've been keeping my on. My eye on because, you know, there's lots of, there's lots of people out there saying that there's not enough growth and problems with the economy and we all see that. And what are these new growth areas? A lot of people point to the service economy and how the sharing economy around tech can boost that. Well, what about, you know, totally rebuilding from the ground up, you know, all the networking wires, all the hardware, all software to be much less vulnerable and impervious to some of these state level broad spectrum panopticon kinds of attacks that people are aware of and don't want. It's going to take a lot. We're going to pretty much have to rewrite everything and maybe all the hardware and the software. It's a huge mess as that article said, everything is broken. Another question from Trezor, in the next 12 months, what are your thoughts on financial instruments that look to leverage the crypto blocks chain like the overstocks IPO, the Wink ETF or crypto i, which will have more adoption. What do you guys think? Overstock, the Wink ETF, second market, that kind of thing? I think they'll all be pretty successful. A lot of people seem in this space really willing to do, you know, this VC, just angel funding like crowd sale, you know, like we've seen with made safe and ethereum and others, many others. So people are willing to throw their money at these ideas and that's a good thing, you know, some of the, some of them will hit, some of them won't. And I think the people who are putting money towards it are trying to show their support. It's more of a philanthropic giving in a way than it is an investment, which is the kind of thing I like to see, you know, if you have to talk about investing in companies, I like to see this kind of ground game, the grassroots support for an idea, kind of with a philanthropic event. The second market ETF is already running to large value customers such as firms, though Wink ETF would be to just normal people on the open stock market. So that sounds like a really exciting development if they can get it approved. Chris, do you thoughts? Yeah, I definitely have some skepticism that companies like Overstock will be able to in the long run be able to issue these crypto securities because they are easy targets for censorship. They have a headquarters, they have a CEO and all that. And I don't see that, I mean, stock markets are so heavily manipulated and that manipulation is so important to the game plan and through the desires of rulers. I don't see that they're going to get allow these companies to get away with it. And that's these, it's got to be something where the company is not issuing the stocks somehow. It's got to be somehow the decentralized issuance of stocks. And I'm not sure how that would work quite yet. I think that it seems like Patrick Bern is more interested in a kind of crypto security where Overstock would be issuing them. And I just don't, I don't see that going getting past the sensors. Let's see how it goes. Any other thoughts on this? Next question? All right. Theo writes, do you think the Wiki would do a get more Bitcoin donations if they did a better job blocking government IP addresses from editing articles? I think we could extend this to commercial IP addresses as well from a large businesses editing their own articles. This has been discussed before on Wikipedia and I've been to some of the meetups in London. It would be a bad idea to do that because what Wikipedia is trying to do is is trying to get it the truth. And the truth can come from anywhere. It doesn't matter if your company updates its own article on Wikipedia. What's important is it's true, which means that it accords by all their rules and it's got citations. So they have allowed, they have been companies who have updated their articles. But what is kind of cool is that there are some Twitter bots now, quite a plethora of them, who update you when an article has been updated on Wikipedia by Congress for example. So there's like Wikipedia Congress updates on Twitter. You use duck.go to search through a few of those. The Russian government also have one as well. Don Yetsk Republic is also for the Ukrainian thing like every time somebody from Eastern Ukraine tries to change one of the facts about the war or the conflict that's going on in a moment. They also update you. So I think their idea of always keep a copy. I think they have a rule at Wikipedia. Always keep a copy of everything. Store everything. Always. The idea is like the blockchain. You have like an infinite trace ability and then weed out that the crap plates are on and just let the good stuff rise to the surface. Excellent. Moving on to the next question. Good call, right? We see overstock.com as an innovator in the Bitcoin retail market. And now they're willing to pay bonuses and employees in Bitcoin. Do you feel that retailers need to hold and do businesses in Bitcoin and do business in Bitcoin in addition to accepting Bitcoin for more positive growth and adoption? We guys think to businesses need to hold Chris J. Do businesses need to hold Bitcoin like the longer term? Yeah, we say. They need to hold it or can they just change it? The problem is that most businesses run on very low cash flows. So they don't make a lot of operating profit. So they've got to pay their staff. And most of the staff from guessing won't want to take Bitcoin. Also they have to pay their taxes. They've got to pay payroll company. So unfortunately, I don't think a lot of them are that cash rich unless they're in insurance or something where you're in a cash rich business or banking. You're not keeping a lot of money on account. So yeah, as much as I'd like them to, for sure. I just don't know where the many of them can afford it. Even as a person, they have to pay their suppliers and their suppliers don't want Bitcoin yet. So they're still at that chicken and an egg thing. Will, yeah. I agree with Chris. I mean, they don't have much means to hold much. And the problem I see is just the merchants that I talked to or have brought on board. They're reluctant to hold, although they'd like to. And I think that if you'd like to, you can find a way to hold some portion of it and still make ends meet. And I think you'll be better off for doing so. So whatever that margin can be that's safe for you to hold onto, you know, I know businesses invest in themselves with the, you know, the profits and their capital and stuff that. So there is some room to do that. The reluctance is usually around like the regulatory uncertainty and not so much around like too thin of a margin to cover. So even in the businesses that have thin margins, getting merchants over the hump of whatever doubts or fears that they might have to hold what they'd like to hold, you know, they can do that. So if we can encourage them or find other creative ways to get them a little pile to sit on, you know, there's other profit, other income streams or revenue streams that could be devised, you know, putting an ATM in your business might be one good way to do that. You know, you can take the skim off of that. If you're already a Bitcoin accepting business, why not? So I don't know, meet ups, local meet ups should help these small businesses who are probably now after you've signed them up in some ways, members of your meet up, members of the community there at least can be reaching out to these merchants and helping them with some ideas there. Moving on to the next question from Eric, how much longer does the crypto sphere have to pretend that legacy banks matter? Why so much effort to make Bitcoin corrupted by Federal Reserve notes and other Fiat currencies, i.e. Ripple, Real Coin, Ethereum, maybe even include Stellar there. He apologizes if he's misreading these efforts, but what do you guys think? Do legacy banks still matter? No, and you know what, as we get more conflicts in the world, like what's with happening with Russia and also Palestine at the moment, I think that Bitcoin is going to become even more necessary. Someone asked me a similar questions day on Twitter and I think that Bitcoin is weakest components, mostly from within side of itself. We've still got the legacy internet infrastructure to overcome because if you don't have internet, you don't have Bitcoin and energy dependence. Yeah, that's a great point. Chris, the one thing I would say is there's, I just lost my turn of thought, I'm sorry, folks. Sorry, I mean, I think what we're saying here is that the banks are not the biggest threat here, and yeah, I know the wine is going on about it and on Reddit, we always have this conversation and the subreddit is like, you know, there's one group of Bitcoiners that gives a shit about the bankers, but actually the core group that have been with it since the beginning really don't, and I'm obviously, I'm in that group. Well, bankers certainly do matter in the sense that they control the legacy banking system, which is still magnitude is larger than the Bitcoin system in terms of market cap, the majority of people that we know that we care about are still primarily in the legacy banking system. So I think they matter in that regard, but there are some workarounds that I think are quite powerful. Just the other day, my friend and colleague Justice Ranvier wrote this article about the idea of an unbanked ATM machine for Bitcoin, where you would have, for example, like a machine that can do a cash recycling, where rather than having like one box for receiving bills and an a separate box for to putting out bills, if it can, if the machinery can recycle the bills, then you don't actually have to have anyone come by to like, you know, swap between the boxes, and he had all these like clever designs for how ATMs could encourage better price finding than a local area so that, you know, the transactions don't go through immediately. So this would allow someone essentially to, as long as it's legal for them to have a Bitcoin ATM, even if a bank doesn't want to do business with them, the ATM can be designed and operate in such a way that they don't actually need a bank account. There's just some amount of cash that's always sitting in the machine itself, and that's a frickin' brilliant idea. It really does. It is a way of getting around this thin green line of the banksters that are a problem for people all of the world still. Yeah, I remember what I wanted to say, guys, I'm sorry, it was, it was important too. So like, this is one of the reasons we need more bankless startups and services like blockchain, like Topeeke. I hope that we can provide a tool that can live on top of some of these other bankless services and really provide people a better way to move more exclusively of their, more of their financial life to be exclusively on blockchain. That's what Topeeke will bring, hopefully. So keep an eye out for that. But Bitcoin attracts people that are disgruntled depositors with banks or disgruntled foreclosies, or if you've been harmed by banks in any which way whatsoever, even just a bad customer service phone call experience can be an in-road for Bitcoin. You have a lifer that way and you just need to nurture that with, there's so many tools in the last year that make it easier. There is friction in getting up and running with these tools like purchasing things like your website domains, your travel, your food, your, so many ways just using Bitcoin or Bitcoin proxy services to get you the goods you need. But there are ways to do this today. So today we still barely need the banks. But there are service, I mean blockchain is doing everything they can. I think that the concept for a bankless Bitcoin startup that has the you know market share if you will that blockchain does, that's not being copied enough. That's like that's what we really tried at Topeeke to do is like live in the spirit of exclusive crypto ecosystem and bring more people to that and show them that it's possible. You know there are companies out there that don't need bank accounts. There are ideas like the recycling Bitcoin ATM that don't require a bank account and businesses as well. Like this is like online algorithm that is available to us now. So technically yes we still need the banks for a very short time longer I think. All right moving on to the next question. Chris J demands that we answer this question where the guy said we should set up a donation account for Palestine and the thousands of citizens murdered by the Israeli defense fund. That's for sure. Sorry yeah you were almost sensitive by the Zionist conspiracy. Dude I think that's a very good point and I've been thinking about just that the reason why you get into shit loads of trouble for doing this is because you'd get lots and lots of attention from governments thinking you were funding the terrorism. But my having studied this a lot because people have been asking me to talk about this on the show and I said look I can't because I literally I have a ton of learning to do on this. I don't I'm not first enough to speak intelligently about it when I did start looking up into it and I was up until four in the morning the other night you know going through it. All I got was a gender set after a gender set. No one was wanting to learn anything. Every time I tried to read some information about it I constantly felt like I was being forced to choose a side to come down on. But every now and again every now and again I'd find a human being in the debate who actually was being reasonable and actually wanted to learn something. Everyone else had already agreed or already decided what the truth was. They'd already decided on the future they wanted and they were willing to distort the past to any degree necessary in order to get to that future. I'm coming to the view and I'm always willing to be persuaded. I'm coming to the view that the innocent people in this region of the world that don't want to have any part of this should be allowed to leave and let the monsters kill each other because they clearly don't want peace do they. So I think like I don't know please tell me if I'm being out of line here but anyone that wants to be able to leave this region should be allowed to leave and then those guys can just kill each other. Yeah you know the trouble is there's all this like historical precedent this portion of the world being incredibly significant and it's probably valuable in terms of the natural resources it's on and stuff and great. I mean there's there's you know new pools of natural resources of all kinds of all kinds of high value being discovered all over the place. So maybe what we could do is coordinate a kind of like sponsored refugee rescue mission and just like invite in some way interface with you know the world health organization or the UN which is very upset about it surprisingly all of a sudden 10 years later they're very upset about what's going on in Israel at least these are the news. How much of this is a lack of consciousness? How much of this is just a lack of self-awareness because I saw on the BBC that a very stark interview with one of the Israeli fighter jet pilots who found it very difficult to justify his job. He was trying his best and he was towing the line but she was asking him some tough questions and he said yeah but we've aborted three missions so far and you could hear it in his voice he knew that he was you know he knew that his conscience was not fully there but he couldn't say otherwise I mean he was under duress and it just makes me wonder like how much of this is like what if the if the planet is moving through space a thousand miles an hour we know this and it never occupies coordinate in space twice ever again it always is a unique space then why do we grow attached to these you know just these I don't know these memories and these places that we fix why can't these are more legacy yeah these are more legacy ideas and concepts that people think are part of human nature but really aren't there fictions that were forced to don us millennia ago and have been very effective in the last millennia or last 500 years it's not it's not a one-state solution it's needed it's a no-state solution maybe the answer for these people is that we just like dumb down these are these governments and just reduce them and dissolve them to like I say just tourist attractions Chris I think you're right I mean it's not something that's going to happen anytime soon for sure but I personally don't have much hope whatsoever for is read the government of Israel and the government organizations associated with Palestine to reconcile I don't think it's going to happen I think one piece is achieved in that region it will because people have grown outside of the governments that are provoking these wars in the first place yeah one thing I'd like to see is a coordinated you know like an independently voluntarily coordinated effort to invite people to leave because there's they're not leaving Chris because they want to be there and they want to fight over that piece of earth for their you know historically entrenched reasons unfortunately so yeah I mean this is another like one of the things I respect so much about Cody Wilson for example is how his activism functions within current law but in order to force the hand and expose like force the hand of the state or state level actors so that they expose themselves for the you know incredulous impotent entities that they really are and this is powerful you know and this is also legal and it's also lots of subterfuge and intrigue involved in that too if that's part of the flavor you like I know it's I don't know how much Cody likes it but he certainly has a flare for it but yeah and an idea like this something where we could invite people to leave and have that funded have a trip out of that area funded especially for you know there are lots of Israelis who want to leave there too but I think have lots of maybe family or cultural pressure to stay or of course we know about the family and cultural pressure to not criticize the the you know the nation of Israel you know at large so yeah I think we should think of creative slash legal ways of forcing the hand to of these you know behemoth states that act so morally without with impunity and and and expose them to more and more people I mean you know there's so much cognitive dissonance on the Facebook news feeds of so many people now and everybody's talking about the Israel Palestine thing and yeah I think Bitcoin or cryptocurrencies can do some good here I was actually asked to solve this problem at pork fest we had a round table discussion and the first thing that came up is someone asked me to solve the Israeli Palestinian problem so I started thinking about it and basically it came down to a similar situation with the homosexual rights and the marijuana rights movement where the older generation that didn't like it died off so we kind of just have to wait for that to happen what's unfortunate about this situation is that the younger generation is being radicalized because they're seeing their brothers and their fathers their mothers and sisters killed and on both sides and that's going to keep happening as long as the violence continues historically if you look back at this situation and I don't want to get in trouble but really unfortunately historically it's an occupation and if you look at the Roman system of occupation or even the American system of occupation it generally ends like the trail of tears with the stronger side sending the weaker side on a long walk so it's very expensive and unfortunate to be a refugee in world war two there are many refugees from Germany trying to get away from Germany that even the United States sent back to Germany to their certain death and much worse than death so it's a very terrible situation one side has become intractable the other side is stuck there and weaker you know don't really like to talk about it but then yeah but then yeah we got to talk about the hard issues though because how much this is them is Israel just hoping they'd become like America and then eventually everyone just forgets they win and they get the whole territory to themselves and then no one ever says let's get the land back to the Native Americans for example everyone just says oh well it's happened now this is what my friend Tom was saying to me in the in the fall last night another neither neither of us have gone axe to grind over this we're just looking at these facts objectively how are we all coming to the same conclusion anyway is when it is it's a big complicated situation but we've got a couple more questions and and thank you for the question Mohammed and let's see great point Andreas he's not here the west focuses on the ability of Bitcoin to provide for their wants while the rest of the world focuses on how Bitcoin will provide for its needs so that's a good contrast there and we do focus a lot on shopping and business adoption because it gets this large headlines and gets the word about Bitcoin out there and spreading Bitcoin as a thought virus but it is Bitcoin is more important and more useful for the developing world well and there's something evil about shopping keep in mind that sort of the goal for the third world is to get to the point where they're wealthy enough to care about shopping right like that's that's the end goal for for building wealth around the world as you try to move them closer to the to the first world now it doesn't mean that they have to be horribly terribly materialistic like the average US person they don't have to be debt-ridden you know Bitcoin's certainly not about accumulating a bunch of credit card debt but yeah I think that yeah the more wealthiest someone becomes the more they can concern themselves with luxuries all right we've got one more question for Christoph Atlas this one's all yours will Christoph uses Darkcoin donations to create a dark dark coin master node or would you rather something something so Christoph dark coin master nodes is it is a good investment good idea oh well I think they were asking kind of like a practical question for the the testing stuff I'm gonna be doing um I don't want to get too deep into that because it's gonna be boring for most people but the person was like oh you have a thousand dark coin I was like no I don't and then I looked at the at the the donation address and I was like oh I guess it does that's shocking okay um but yeah um I probably would just do that on the test net so I don't need to uh to put people's money at risk by putting out an master node um a lot of times when you when you do a show like this and you raise money even if you really believe in dark coin you really believe in Bitcoin you also have other expenses you can't always have of course on your coins so it is a it's a tough question that I think we all struggle with so moving on to predictions our story of the week in this incredibly epic marathon of an episode mr. Chris Ellis do you have a story of the week left uh well I could if you want me to do a hash watch if anyone's interested because um let me just get let me just get it up I'll just do it quickly because it's pretty much the same every week but look the mystery hash rate came back so the hash rate that that have been bounced up to like 150 giga hashes last month that mysteriously went down to take us to a um less than 10% difficulty change um has mysteriously reappeared so again I might just be seeing tea leaves um might be um just looking for patterns where there really aren't any but I have actually invited sexio on to my show on Christopher for coffee and they are talking to me and they said they are willing they're also in the UK um so we're negotiating that the moment so I'll either be this Wednesday or the following Wednesday I imagine hey good christoph atlas yeah my story of the week was going to be about the uh the bad usb stuff um so that's all I got will penguin um my my story of the week would just be um of this uh bit license stuff you know it's it's popping up everywhere there's people really just like trying to get involved in a discussion that I think is a waste of time or at least just like kind of half baked attempts or half-assed I'd really like to see uh you know more concerted um efforts on on bigger soap boxes and more efforts to show people that bitcoin is an exit when there's like any kind of oppressive or even just unpleasant um you know strictures around your behavior that you can you know that this can more obviously show you that bitcoin is is your exit and uh from from something like that um and yeah you can opt out now we have bitcoin to opt out and we have other ideas built on this you know decentralized blockchain idea uh that will become more more avenues for opting out of these things so um yeah I don't um I don't want on want folks to think that that they're actually going to be heard in this comment period because that doesn't look like it's going to be the case but there are other voices or ears even in the political realm if that's your cup of tea that will hear you so uh seek those out and get on those platforms and it takes some courage but um hopefully you know you can muster that and you know if that's if that's uh the ratchewan to go um other than that be a common user make more users very good and I'd like to thank everyone for joining us we still have 70 viewers with us who've been with us since the beginning at one point we were over a hundred uh no doubt due to the appearance of Andreas Antonopoulos but it's been great to have everybody and I hope I'll see you on the world crypto network Reddit we're having our meeting next week and I hope to see everybody there and finally a prediction amazon.com the 300 pound gorilla of internet commerce is sitting on the sidelines looking like a fool ebay and paypal hungrily i bitcoin while the gorilla sits sits and waits time is running out amazon time is running out except bitcoin except bitcoin for books except bitcoin for cloud servers except bitcoins for your merchants who use amazon marketplace don't be left behind amazon just because you are the number one place to buy things on the internet doesn't mean it'll stay that way tempest fugit tempest fugit oh we're out of time until next time bye bye