The Bitcoin Group, the American original filmed in front of a live studio audience. Throw over the last, woo! Throw over the last ten seconds, the sharpest Satoshi's, the best Bitcoins, the hardest cryptocurrency talk. We'd like to welcome our panelists, Chris Ellis, from FeatherCoin. Derek J. Freeman from Peace News Now. Dovey Barker from ShineeBadges.com Blake Anderson from Facebook.com slash Got Blake. Megan Lourds from Bitcoin, not Bombs. Will Penguin from Bitcoin, Milwaukee. And I'm Thomas Hunt from Mad Bitcoins. Alright, issue one, Dogecoin Founder quits, Calls Community, cult like. Jackson Palmer, the founder of Dogecoin, is quit the struggling coin after a disagreement with John Green from Moolah.io. Over how to handle Ultra Pro, manufacture of baseball card sleeves, trade marking the word Doge to make binders, notepads, and more, featuring the cute canine. Jackson thinks it's fine, but Green thinks it's not acceptable. Because of this disagreement, Jackson Palmer has quit Dogecoin. Is this the beginning of the end for the plucky cryptocurrency? Chris J. Yeah, I think this is really, really sad if it's true. I've just been looking through Jackson Palmer's Twitter. It sounds like he's claiming that he's been misquoted, so I don't want to speak out of term. But if it is true that he described his own community as cult like, then he really needs to think about what motivated him to create the movement in a first place. I would be really interested to see what Project C does again in the future as well. But I'm a really big fan of all community-driven currencies. That was the whole point. Nobody asked for their currencies to be innovative. They asked them to be relevant, stable, and to hold that price over time. So I look forward to hearing any kind of response that you might have formally in the future. I am so sad to hear that this could be the end of Doge. I wouldn't want that at all. Because the Doge community, as Chris mentioned, has been one of the bed rocks of the cryptocurrency world. And they've done so much for the promotion of cryptocurrencies and injected a lot of fun into the community as well. So I would hope that even though the community may be accurately described as cult like, that shouldn't be a turn-off. That's not terrible. They have a happy cult and they're productive too. So, ain't nothing wrong with that. I think Bitcoin has already proven that cryptocurrencies don't need strong leaders. And so I think Doge is resilient. I think it will continue on. I think where you cut off one Doge, two will grow in its place. And I think that the idea of copyrighting the Doge is absurd. Because the very nature of memes is that someone somewhere has already heard of it by the time you've heard of it. So no one can really claim to be the creator or at least not the person who's claiming to copyright it. So that strikes me as an absurd idea. And doesn't scare me at all. So go Doge. I have a little bit of mixed feelings. If he didn't say it, then I think that there's fine. But if he did say it, I think there's something called fiduciary responsibility and an obligation to various people that you've told to invest in something that it was going to the moon. So I think that that's very serious. And before I go into really kind of criticizing that statement, I would want to make sure that he really did say it. I've been kind of out of my tech networks. I haven't had a lot of chance to do a lot of research on these issues. But I was very upset when I heard. Yeah, being out here in the woods kind of keeps you a little insulated. So some of these current events are very fresh for all of us here. But it is sad if it's true that this was said. I certainly think Doge is resilient enough in the community. As Dovey pointed out, doesn't need any strong figurehead type leaders. There should be dozens if not hundreds or thousands of those types of folks. That's what makes all of these crypto coin communities so strong. And communities like the FreeState project and so on. Yeah, it'll be interesting to see what comes out. If he's misquoted, then that's a shame. But if it is something he actually said, that's very immature way to leave a huge project that you found it and nurtured. So I'd like to think from what I know, Jackson Palmer, he's really bright and smart and optimistic from everything I've heard and learned about him. So hopefully we learn that this was all just a misunderstanding. And it's just time for him to leave the community as a leader. So I really like the enthusiasm of the Doge community. And this is kind of sad news. I need a little more clarification on the quote before I have an opinion about that. If it's something he did say, maybe there's some bitterness about this whole battle that he's going through. It is kind of ridiculous to try to patent a meme. I just picture that it's extremely hard to enforce since Doge is on everything now. And in so many different ways, there's been remixed in so many ways that I'm going to be really hard to enforce. So yeah, I want to wait on clarification whether or not he actually said that quote because that is a pretty sanitary quote. I just had that actually two days ago, Jackson did say that he's not leading all together. He's mostly just staying away from the reddit. So I kind of watched this space. Yeah, exit question. Should Doge coin stand by and allow ultra pro to trademark the word Doge? No, you can't trademark a meme. It's ridiculous. Yeah, absolutely not. He didn't come up with Doge. Doge is a strong bad reference. Like that's a, it strikes me as a kind of mental disorder. He would even think that he could copyright the word Doge. We need a lot more intellectual property. It's the only way to go towards a nice productive future. We need to copy right not just Doge, but a whole bunch of other memes and then troll everybody that's ever used them and put them in prison for the betterment of all mankind. Should the community stand by, implying that they would what somehow resist this normal type of procedure that everything seems to follow through. If you file the right paperwork, I kind of think they should stand by. Who cares, right? I mean, just keep doing your thing. Again, it sounds unenforceable. Yes, it's a really ridiculous thing if you're going to patent Doge, you should patent Grumpy cat to or something. I'm over the sector. Issue 2, Middle East Investment Bank. Could Bitcoin ignite regional e-commerce? The Kuwaiti Financial Center, also known as Marquez, has published a new report entitled Disruptive Technology, Bitcoin's currency reinvented that concludes that despite the risks, if properly nurtured, cryptocurrency can help e-commerce take off in a big way. Micro payments and cashless payment technologies would make it easier for people to carry on just their money, just on their smartphone and pay for it. This is a bank, now on our side. Is it just another early adopter or the beginning of a trend? People don't need banks or they need as a mobile phone and open source software. This is completely disintermediating. Every time one of these banks comes out with a statement like this, I get really, really curious because all they're really interested in doing is put themselves between every economic transaction you want to have. They just want that cut. So I don't know absolutely everything about this story, but it sounds like just another middleman wanting his take. I am surprised to hear you say that Chris. Yeah, sure they want just a little bit of their cut, but they are going to be making it easier for people to transact in these cryptocurrencies. And of course it's happening outside the US. No surprise because it's so complicated for anyone to even get a Bitcoin ATM in the US. So all the innovation is coming from where the Middle East. I find it interesting that the word in the headline is Middle East as if like Kuwait is indistinguishable from every other country in the Middle East. So like Kuwait is a very unique history in the Middle East and like the fact that that you know they have been sort of the victims of all sorts of like wars between their neighbors all these years make it makes sense that they would want to be separatist economically. So like I don't think that we can judge the I mean I would want to do more research on the current socio political situation in Kuwait, but I don't think that we can judge a statement by a bank in Kuwait. The way that we would judge the same statement by a bank in the United States because they're under a completely different set of economic and political pressures. I have a little bit of background with various financial institutions and I feel like what's probably happening is this bank similarly to the way that chase or who was it that did the other thing about friction and yeah, chase. So I think what they're doing when they get these positive metrics for their bank is they're trying to leverage that and talk with the government in order to engender regulatory cap here and try to get as much of the control of the system under the control as they can and then quash competition. That's not very effective in the space. So it's kind of funny to me when they let the cat out of the bag to do this. So I'm just tickled by the entire thing, but I do hope that Kuwait can find more monetary independence that it will work for them. Yeah, I think if there are subservient banks, you know, subservient in the sense that they're, you know, subjugated by larger, more central institutions, more global financial institutions that they should certainly seek solutions that make their business practices cheaper, more efficient, faster, better for their customers. That's good, good business practice. So I don't really see a problem with this. I really like to hear mainstreaming kinds of news and it just advances that they're going to be able to do this. And it just advances the discussion. I mean, again, as Derek pointed out, this is happening in the Middle East, you know, when it could be happening, let's say in Switzerland or, you know, some are forward thinking, you know, traditionally forward thinking financial places in the world. So it is very interesting and it'll bring us closer to mainstream. Yeah, I am wondering how many people have heard of Bitcoin and Kuwait and maybe this could be a way for them to find out what it is so they don't need the bank in the first place to, you know, tell them. So like Chris said, it seems like they're just trying to get in the way, you know, insert themselves into the middle. And there's really no need to do that. I want people to find out about Bitcoin and how it can be used and banks become kind of irrelevant. Exit question, will American banks read the report? Will it influence their thinking? Will they come around? The only person who should create your private kids, your bitcoins is you and you shouldn't be handing over to anyone else. Don't pay the middleman. Yeah, of course what Chris is saying is true, but for people who aren't as technically savvy, yes, I hope that the US does read the report and that the banks say we should get into this. If only for a year or however long the transition time it takes before people say, oh wait, I don't need to pay 20% to the bank. I could just do it all myself and keep everything. I think I'll do that. Well, we know for sure that the report will sit in a data center in Utah. Whether or not someone will ever read it is another question. I think maybe it will sit dormant until it's too late and then someone will dig up those old records and read it and an effort to try to cover their tracks and show that they weren't responsible for whatever crisis they actually cause. I don't know. I mean, in all seriousness, I'm sure someone will read it whether or not the understand or doing anything about it. I have no idea. I think I'm going to email the report to one of my friends and then the NSA will definitely read it and then hopefully they'll talk about it. Yes, yes and eventually. Yes, so that would be interesting if they gave it a look. I don't really think they will. There's not really much of an incentive for them to really look into that. Even though I think it would be good and it's necessary to have a transitional period just to get people in the mainstream more comfortable with adoption. But at the same time, I don't think it's really as necessary here and I don't really don't think they're going to read it there. I think they're thinking of ways to stop it, not really try to draw more attention to it here at least. Issue 3. Canada signs first ever official law regarding Bitcoin. Previously, Canada was taking a hands-off approach waiting and seeing. But now they're backing that up with laws. The new Bitcoin law, the first of its kind, regulates Bitcoin as a money service business, does not define dealing in virtual currencies, requires the companies to register, forces foreign Bitcoin companies operating inside Canada to register and prohibits banks from opening Bitcoin accounts if they fail to register. Is this law a step in the right direction? It's a step in a direction. I think a lot of these governments took a very long time to form a view that was probably the most pragmatic thing they could have done. Most governments only served to maintain the status quo. That's what I believe that real intention is. I don't think that any of these regulations are going to have an impact longer term. I think it does help citizens to make more informed decisions. No, I think this is a horrible decision by the Canadian government. It's just going to interfere. The hands-off approach was one of the things that I liked about them. I would always reference Canada as a place that was safe for Bitcoin no longer. No. It's strange when they make new laws. I have not read everything about it, but from a general macro perspective and stuff. Bitcoin can't be regulated. You can regulate what happens on exchanges and stuff. If you think of the exchanges as a whole bunch of kids in a park with different tables where they're selling magic cards, there's a lot of same cards being sold and stuff. It wouldn't be absurd to have a security guard to stand by to make sure nobody steals from those kids or those kids don't steal all this stuff. If we can get close to that without having a security guard coming and taking people's cards and stuff and pushing the kids around, that's probably what we should try to engender and do. Yeah, I think this is just obviously what you can expect from governments or bureaucracies, regulatory agencies. This is what they do. They're trying to figure out what their job is around cryptocurrency and how their work applies to it. They're having a very hard time doing that because it doesn't need them. They'll eventually figure this out. Some of them, and they'll find better ways of spending their time on Earth for all of us, them and us. It's just going to take more time. It looks like they're getting closer and closer to that understanding that cryptocurrency is pretty much self-regulate pretty well. This is a terrible, terrible decision. But the good news is, this technology is still really new and young and now would be the best time for Bitcoiners to resist this kind of legislation. Did you know the Bitcoin group is being broadcast live on world crypto network dot com at world crypto network dot com enough plugs moving on issue four US prepares for sale of Bitcoin seized in silk road raid. The 12 hour window is open for you to submit your bids to the US government get your auction paddles ready because it's bidding time. It's the government's very first time reselling Bitcoin and even the New York Times is calling the process opaque and slap dash and chiding the government for their lack of transparency and obvious CC slash BCC mistakes, which as reported on this network led to the members of the mailing list communicating with each other. A fact that it was now featured in the New York Times and was first released by Shem Booth Spain in an exclusive world crypto network interview last chance for predictions will the Bitcoins be sold above market rate will the market crash or will Bitcoin endure. So this is the theft of the Bitcoin's off of the silk road server. I think that this information has already been priced into the market sentiment. I don't think that it's got any more movement down. We were kind of expecting this already. We'd say that today we have met Lynn or bricked Tom and I you should definitely be supporting the free Ross campaign. I hope that QR code is coming up big enough not we'll put it in post. So this is a Bitcoin address. It's a vanity address. The one Ross Bitcoin, please send him as much money as you can 0.03 Bitcoin is what I'm recommending so everyone if everybody at pork fest it that would easily reach our goal of 60 bitcoins. This whole seizure of the silk road bitcoins has been a complete disaster from beginning to end of course like any government theory they're planning on now auctioning off property that never belong to them has no authority to sell this. The Bitcoin's belonged to other people and now they're selling them they couldn't even do that properly and in secret or transparently couldn't couldn't do either well and they deserve all the embarrassment that they're receiving now for their shameful shameful actions. I think thanks to the internet and shows like these people are able to see what the federal government is doing for what it really is. I'm predicting that the auction is going to be disorganized and awkward and it's going to be difficult to tell who would win and then there's going to be dispute over who is who actually won because something was mismanaged or misfiled or something but ultimately I think my my prediction is going to be that once the auction is won and the winner is determined and it's time to send the Bitcoin the bit the government is going to hand input that address and put in a typo and orphan all of those Bitcoin. It seems extremely plausible that they will make a typo and orphan all the bitcoins and that would be kind of fantastic I mean that would be that would be exciting just they're burned. Oh man but yeah the Silk Road what went on there is they came and destroyed lives for purely political reasons I was talking to Ross's mother the other day and she's a parent and I'm a parent I have my own kid and imagining him being in a cage for the first time. Being in a cage for for anything much less the reasons that they're trying to stick on him is absolutely horrifying it's like a wake walking nightmare the entire community is to come together and do everything that we can to help him and we really need to take this seriously and get some wheels and do everything that we can. Yeah I think Roger Verr said that regardless of you know Ross all bright skilter innocence he's either a political prisoner or he's an innocent man who's in a cage so that's the bottom line right there so definitely support free Ross dot org. Look forward to Lynn all bright talk here at pork fest tomorrow morning it's going to I think discuss the the way that the legal defense team is crafting Ross's defense which will be very interesting so keep an eye out for that video from pork fest from the pork fest folks other than that yeah I think as Chris said I think this the market sentiment has the sale of these coins priced in already it's it's going to be interesting what happens after I kind of think everybody is kind of just waiting for the next one. We have just waiting for it to be over and then we'll start to see some more normal activity return and you know the gradual rise continues. The government's going to completely screw this up and keep screwing it up and the focus needs to be redirected back to Ross Ulbrich who is currently sitting in a cage so I'm going to just echo my other panelists here we need to do everything we can to support him and his family. Lynn will be speaking tomorrow here at pork fest and she's wonderful to talk to and what they're going through is absolutely insane. And now predictions or story of the week Chris J are you ready with a prediction or a story of the week. No I'm not ready. It's okay so I've had a really interesting time here in the States I want to send a big thank you out to all the people that donated to make it possible for me to be here. I found it really really interesting to meet people of differing views this is the first time I've been around a group of people that have been open carrying with firearms. I'm had a very good conversation today with the Jocy outlaw to talk about that I might do a video with her tomorrow to discuss it a bit more. We don't have guns in the United Kingdom even the police aren't allowed to carry guns and I think when we talk about this issue when you look at it in the forums it's very very polarized and people talk as if the law is there to represent moral exactitudes as if the same rule can be applied the world over having listened to some of the arguments from people that have been carrying guns here. I am kind of persuaded that this is that this is probably the right things to I even think that open carry is better than concealing the firearm because at least you know the intention of the person carrying it. And I have at no time felt under threat whilst I've been here I never felt like anyone was about to shoot me if someone's going to hurt you they're going to hurt you anyway. That being said I also don't think it's appropriate to legalize guns in the UK because we just don't have it in our culture. We've had maybe two or three shootings in a school in the last 20 years when it happened with the dog and incident in 2011 we had riots that lasted for a week. And that was a very very big deal. So I don't think it's baked into our DNA as a culture in the United Kingdom but one of the things I would just finish up by saying is that I do feel like now I've been around these new ideas in this different culture. I do feel a sense of lack of preparedness in the United Kingdom like I don't have any laws that really give me the right to protect myself and defend myself in the event of lawlessness which may well happen if there is an economic collapse. So it has given me pause for thought and I hope to explore these issues in a future video. The story of the week is that Chris Ellis is here all the way from the UK. It's very exciting that we are here together all in one place at Pork Fest in New Hampshire. The coolest part about being here with all of these guys is not just interacting and seeing people face to face but being able to transact in Bitcoin for everything I do. I've only had to use cash I think once at one vendor who wasn't set up with Bitcoin yet. But the question last year used to be do you accept Bitcoin and this year it's do you accept Dogecoin. There are so many places that accept Bitcoin that I'm now asking about alternative currencies. There's even a vendor that accepts Darkcoin which is really unique. I mean that's a real stretch and I bought some water today with Doge it really happened I couldn't believe it. This has been sort of a longer trip than usual for me Bitcoin now bombs was at Bitcoin in the beltway last week and then I came straight here to Porgypine Freedom Fest which is sort of like the opposite Bitcoin festival as a whole. As Washington DC but I guess the story is I've been concerned about something I call trust communities which is if you if you look at the Bitcoin not bombs booth here it says Bitcoin is a trustless system but we trust you shop all you like and there's a QR code so if we're out to lunch and you want to grab merch off our table and you're willing to pay for you can do that and Bitcoin is or pork fest is a place where you can do that and for now most Liberty events are places where you can do that. The early Bitcoin conferences were places that you could do that and I'm by and large feeling like they aren't anymore that though there is a direct correlation between the statists that come into a Bitcoin conference and the degree at which security and loss prevention and theft is an issue at Bitcoin conferences and I just I just want to sort of put that metaphor or put that fact actually it's not a metaphor in people's minds. That it's actually the ideology of the state that brings its own problems into a community and if you can if you can reject the regulators and you can reject like the people that want to beg in Washington DC and beg their politicians for permission to use Bitcoin and you can keep a sort of free and cooperative people that trust community that a trust community is sustainable at least it has been here for 11 years now so I just want to you know put that in your pocket. I've been smoking. I was talking Bitcoin in the boat with these fine people and it was a lot of fun and on my way there on the airplane I just stood up and I held corp and just was really loud and like some people were annoyed but I was like everybody that can download this application I'll give you 50 bucks with an alternative currency and usually about seven people can do it. So did my way to Washington on my way back and then the next day I flew to Philadelphia I did my way there and then I flew to Boston from Philadelphia and I did it then and I'm going to do it on my two legs back back home so if you can get about seven people per per time that you're pissing off three people that's you know that I'll take those numbers. I guess my story of the week kind of something that flew under the radar again relating to the Bitcoin in the beltway conference which was lots of fun with a lot of you. It was great to meet Chris Ellis and Tom there for the first time in person and of course I have them here but there was someone else I was looking forward to meeting in DC who was prevented from coming to their speaking slot. Charlie Shrem, the infamous Charlie Shrem founder of the Bitcoin Foundation and former CEO of BitInstant one of the best and easiest ways to get Bitcoin throughout you know the latter half of 2012 and most of 2013. He had approval to go and speak at DC at the DC conference and at the last minute I think on the afternoon of Friday that permission was revoked in a last minute motion by the prosecution to prevent him from going and preventing from speaking to people who are fans of his or are interested in his case or interested in what he has to say. So you know a lot of people wanted to see him there and we're expecting him there and this is just kind of something I want to highlight this is the behavior that we see from from governments if laws and regulations are meant to protect people or to punish people who are deserving of punishment then why do they so often like a petulant frustrated parent slap people on the wrist or on the head in this way. Who are already under their thumb so it's just despicable and and just obvious that restoration or justice is really not the goal so let's keep that in mind as we support people like Charlie people like Ross Albright. So the good thing about going last is I can have a story of the week and a prediction so usually I'm not prepared but for me the story of the week it's been an excellent week in general I organized my first conference ever with Bitcoin in the beltway the Bitcoin group has happened live twice now which is amazing I am so happy to meet everyone in person especially Chris who came all the way over from London which is it's amazing it just shows that you know the unity of the Bitcoin community when we were in the world. So I want to help each other out so that's just amazing and then we're here at work fest which is such I mean you run into awesome I don't know that I've been to even that many panels or talks because I've just been hanging out having awesome discussions with people and so my prediction for next year there is only maybe one or two vendors that are holding out on taking Bitcoin by next year they're going to be taking Bitcoin. Prediction when I get home I'm going to announce a zero tolerance policy for anyone keeping more than three Bitcoins in an online exchange I'm going to demand that every one of you learns how to secure your Bitcoins in an offline paper wallet I've had enough stolen Bitcoins from good people and I'm not going to accept it anymore zero tolerance but we're out of time until next time bye bye.