The Bitcoin Group, the American original, for over the last ten seconds, the sharpest sitoshis, the best bitcoins, the hardest cryptocurrency talk. We'd like to welcome our panelists, Chris Ellis, from Feathercoin. Hello. Megan Lawrence from Bitcoin, not bombs. Hello. And Derek J. Freeman. Hello. Now over the last ten seconds. Hello. Issue one, Bitcoin price, falls below $600 as government prepares for a 30,000 Bitcoin sell-off. A nine pack of 3,000 bitcoins each will be sold off by the government to the highest bidder in an exclusive and closed auction. The price of Bitcoin has declined on this news, then bounced back, then declined. Where are thoughts? Chris Ellis. Yeah, we spent a lot of time talking about this last night. If you look at the World Crypto net YouTube, I don't see this as being a real issue. I think the reason people are selling is because they think other people will when they hear the same news. So he talks quite extensively. I particularly like to comment on the coin desk comment section underneath the article by a guy called Black Dynamite who says, it is childish at best, stupid at worst, to the value of Bitcoin based on the government owning less Bitcoin. A very slight increase in supply of Bitcoin is a good thing. Actually, somebody pointed out that this is only an increase of 0.23% back into the market of the overall bitcoins in circulation. I think what's happening psychologically is people are associating the dollar value of the bitcoins with actual bitcoins. I think people are hearing what was the figure again. It was like 30 million or something like that. Okay. So like 30,000 bitcoins sell off. I think what's happening is people are equating that with being more than it actually is to what the actual supply really is. And given the threshold of $200,000, which is what you've got to send to the feds, this is only going to be institutional investors. They're probably like we said last night, we also included a comment about the fact that they probably already have buy orders already in place on existing exchanges or in other black markets to maybe arbitrage and make sure they get the fair price because it might be that the public markets overreact to the news make the price go down lower than what they can actually buy for in the feds and they just pull their order from the feds. So the market efficiency should come through. I do think though that this drop in price might have something to do with the giga hash.io mining pool, which recently got 50% of the network hash rate Peter told to the developer today went on to Reddit and said that he's selling half of his bitcoins. A lot of people are very concerned. It is a genuine fear that people have. I got a quarter, an angry comment from Sir Bits a lot on Twitter saying, yeah, sure, it's nonsense for crypto, math and literature. It's like you might be time to think before you open your mouth, perhaps. And I did kind of go on to explain to him that he was referring to my tweeting out time of your video. I mean, the truth is that you can't perform a sustained 51% attack with 50% of the network, but you can, it does a set of dangerous precedent because it's supposed to be a decentralized system and B, you can be really annoying and do other things. Penitiously in the background, like you know, block certain transactions from addresses, you if you get six block confirmations in a row, you can perform a double spend that way and that that may well happen if you've got 50%. So I take it that sexy of going to make her announcements. Maybe that's something we can talk about another time, but I think that may be the market is reacting to that as well as the Silk Road news. I think it's possible that someone could do that, but it makes no sense for a sexy owner to do that. It makes no economic sense. So I don't understand why they would do that. That's just your speculation. The fact is that none of us know what will happen until we get there. And since this was supposed to be a trustless system where we didn't have to rely on other people, then of course, it's better if we fix the core code than it is to kind of let it continue and hope that they're good people and they don't do anything bad. They would destroy themselves. I don't disagree that I don't think it would be a problem. I just don't think it's destroyed. I did it to let it continue. That's all. Megan Lorde. So I'm enjoying the start of the Bitcoin group, actually. I want to hear more of y'all's discussion. But first of all, I want to thank the government for not deciding to sell off all these Bitcoin's during Bitcoin in the beltway. I don't think it would be that great. So I'm glad they're waiting a little while. But I'm happy to see Bitcoin getting out of the hands of the government, too. And I'm hoping for a little bit of a price drop. I'd really like to buy up some cheap Bitcoin's, but hopefully if they do, it won't be super catastrophic and hopefully it'll be a smooth transition. But yeah, I do think that maybe like Chris was saying, there's some other news that's affecting this price drop, too. So that's something I definitely have to look more into. But yeah, I am happy to see Bitcoin getting out of the hands of the government, hopefully and hopefully into something else. So this will be interesting. I'm definitely going to be watching this closely. So to my thoughts on it. Derek J. Yeah, like Chris was saying that the Bitcoin economy is pretty efficient. So since anyone can be a participant if they want to, I think we're finally seeing some stability to the price despite the recent volatility that we've seen in the news. It's going to be able to withstand this blow. So all the Bitcoin that the government sells, I think, could be absorbed into the price and we'll see that this will be just a not a big deal. The government is, however, giving legitimacy to Bitcoin with this move, which I really like. We're finally seeing the story of the government accepting Bitcoin was a shaky one, had rough beginnings where they're like, oh, we're not sure what to do with that. We're not sure if we should regulate it. Well, now they're finally at the point where they're saying, hey, look, we can participate. We can have an exchange. We can sell some Bitcoin. We're going to do it our own way and blocks like they value this stuff. They actually see it as something that they can trade for value. That's pretty cool. However, the Bitcoins are not there to sell. They were stolen and no convictions have been made. They're no guilty parties. So I'm disappointed to see this party, the government, selling something that it doesn't own, but what else is new? So the good news is, one silver lining to this cloud is that even more people are hearing about Bitcoin because of this story who wouldn't have otherwise. So there's a lot of good news wrapped up in this. You're right. A lot of people are going to hear about this through the free advertising of the media. And it wasn't impressive for the government to create their own exchange strategy of 3,000 Bitcoin clumps. Whenever anyone sells 3,000 Bitcoin, we'll have to call it a government sale. Kristoff, Atlas, your thoughts on the Silk Road Bitcoin sale? Yeah. So I think optimally what I would like to see out of this situation is have some private buyer purchase the Bitcoins, flip them down the road for a bit of a profit that maybe donate some of that to Ross Ulberg's Defense Fund. That would probably be the most honorable thing that you can do because it is kind of unfortunate if you are buying these coins. They are the result of a theft. You would feel kind of bad if someone just had thousands of dozens of Bitcoins stolen by some hacker and then the hacker immediately tries to sell it to you. In fact, many people would frown upon buying those coins. Maybe after they've been sold a few times down the road, then it's like, okay, well, the taint has sort of been dissolved at that point. But if it's just one step removed, then I think it's, you know, people may be a little bit uncomfortable purchasing in the account of the theft. And that's exactly what's happened here. Some people were able to hack into a website. They stole some coins and now they're trying to sell them. And so I think, you know, maybe the least we could do is to help out Ross who is on the hot seat for this whole situation. It is unfortunate that these Bitcoins were able to be taken over by the government. It's too bad they weren't encrypted or something and then there'd be no way or some kind of secondary password. Perhaps they're haunted Bitcoins, Christoph, you never know. I always hope. Exit question, force prediction, price of Bitcoin, the first day of the Bitcoin in the Beltway conference next week. Chris Ellis. I have no idea. I don't make predictions on markets, but I will say that we've got an interesting support level around the 550 mark. So if we keep above that, we should be safe. Megan Lorde. 60230. Derek Freeman. Unmuted. 600. Christoph, Atlas. I don't think that this Silk Road thing is going to affect the price in the long term. I think this maybe the 50% stuff of the pool has a bit more oomph to it. So depending on what we see with the pool going, it will either go up or down from there based on that. I'll take 625. Issue 2. Expedia begins accepting Bitcoin for hotel bookings. Just in time for Bitcoin in the Beltway. Expedia gets on board. The program goes well. They're rumored to accept it for flights and cars as well. Will travelosity respond? Is this another Yahoo Google situation? Megan Lorde. This is really awesome news. I was really excited to hear about Expedia accepting it. I hope other travel agencies jump on board. This is a really great idea. And it makes travel for Bitcoiner easier. A lot of us are constantly traveling around to conferences. This is just one more thing that especially if you're getting paid in Bitcoin, you can say, OK, this is great. I could book my hotel and it just makes all the steps so much easier. So I'm really happy. My boss was trying to book a hotel through Expedia and did run into some communication issues with some of the health there. But it's just in the beginning stages. I think the more people start to use it, the more training people will have, and it'll become a great normalize. So I hope travelosity and some of these other sites respond. And I think they will. Derek J. Bitcoin makes a lot of sense for travelers. So Expedia is smart to adopt early. Although it was possible already, I believe, to book flights in hotels and even maybe even rent cars through cheaper. But I know you can at least do flights. So yeah, of course, travelosity is going to respond. Everyone's going to have to. One of the interesting quotes from this article was about how they received feedback from three different fronts. The Vice President said, quote, this is one of those ideas that seemed to have sprung from three different places all at once. The company's engineers were starting to think about Bitcoin. And the company's product and business developers were as well. And they were also hearing from customers. So it's sort of a three front attack that Bitcoin has made on these companies. And I'm excited about that. Christoph, Atlas. Yeah, this is pretty cool. I think maybe the next step for adoption is where businesses start to keep, they hold on to a little bit of Bitcoin. And they speculate on the value a little bit. And they see if they can start using some of it to pay suppliers and it'd be to be fashion. I think that's kind of like the next level of adoption beyond the mere, you know, allowing that pay and coin base to just convert Bitcoin into dollars and holding onto the dollars. That is the next thing. And I'm pretty excited about when companies will start doing that. I know that Overstock has absolutely talked about doing something like that. And so I'm curious to see if that might catch on as well. The vendor adoption level is one of the hardest levels of Bitcoin adoption. It really is a chicken and the egg problem. We need a lot of businessmen to start taking Bitcoin to start asking their vendors to take it so that the vendors can then buy other things in it that other people would accept it. So it's a really, it's a tough level to get to. But we need businessmen to start asking their vendors every month. Maybe just pay a 1% or 10% try out the product. Yes, Jay. Yeah, these are just an experiment, no? I don't think they've accepted it properly full time. But it's a really good experiment. I just hope that the Bitcoins do actually start spending their Bitcoins because a lot of them don't at the moment. A lot of the businesses that I speak to who started accepting Bitcoin often sort of complain that it's like, yeah, but nobody actually spends them even if they've got them. If you go to the Penbury Tavern in North London, they kind of make a sort of funny face at you if you say like, you know, that you're there for the Bitcoin meetup. They kind of say, yeah, and you're going to pay with Bitcoins because most of you don't. Like you come in, you do it once, you have your picture taken at the bar, and you know, you get to take that away with you. But then in the future, it's all cash. So I just hope that people in the Bitcoin community actually start spending it rather than keeping on exchanges. Exit question, Domino effect, name two companies who will accept Bitcoin within days of each other. Megan Lordes. Well, that's a really hard one. I'm very bad at this naming companies predictions thing because it I always say this I really want to see these smaller locally owned stores taking them first. So I don't really have a good answer for that, honestly. Derek J. Domino's in Pizza Hut. Excellent. Category. Kristoff Atlas. I have no idea. Chris J. Yeah, I don't know, but you know what the people that should be taking it at the shops in the airport, you know, just in the same way that I can spend euros or pounds in airports around Europe, and they take other European currencies as well. I think they should also be taking Bitcoin, and we should probably promote that a bit more. Especially those large vending machines where you can buy electronics. That seems like a perfect situation for a large purchase where you might normally not have the money with you, but if you're spending. Oh, you know, hang on, you know, someone must have done this already put an ATM in an airport. Someone must have done that. Tell me someone's done that. I'm not sure it's happened yet. I know they had one that was a conversion cash box that was in Europe where you could put in like your change, like your, you know, money you didn't want, and it would convert it into Bitcoin, and you could just, you know, hold that and go home. So that was a really cool idea. I'm not sure what happened to it. I think it was overwhelmed with usage. There was a lot of people outside of the airport who weren't traveling anywhere who wanted inside to use it. I think they might have slowed down the program. I haven't read about it in a while. I know of one entrepreneur who is trying to do something like that in airports. What he wants to do is basically do foreign currency exchange using Bitcoin as a medium. So people would, who have Bitcoin when they land in wherever they're landing, if they can then convert that to the foreign currency that they need and do it more cheaply than these little boosts that charge you upwards of, you know, ridiculous amounts. So I think that's very promising. The challenge there is that you have to deal with all the different regulatory regimes and all the different places that you want to put it. So it's, it's tricky if you're trying to not start out on a very small scale. Sounds like a very cool project. I hope they keep working on it. Moving on. Issue 3. Jason King completes Bitcoin run across America. Jason King of Sean's outpost, the Bitcoin backed homeless shelter in Pensacola, Florida, recently ran across the country to raise awareness for the homelessness in America, funded by the generosity of Bitcoin companies. Also, BitKiv held a bowling tournament in San Francisco where once again, Bitcoin companies donated more than eight Bitcoins to charity. What is it about Bitcoin that lends itself to charity so well? Why were these events so successful? Derek J. Well charity is easier to get into in the US than business. There's fewer regulations, so I think that's one reason why people are so quick to use Bitcoin for charity. It's easier to do it this way. It's also in the spirit. I think they had a lot of people who bought in early feel like, okay, well, I've got this extra purchasing power. I want to put it towards good use. And here are some people who are spending their time and energy doing things for to help the homeless and to feed people who are hungry. That's where people want to change the world. Christoph, Atlas. Yeah, whenever the price goes up in particular, there's a wealth effect that's created that makes people feel more generous. So I think that's a big part of it. I think in general too that the kind of modus up around I behind Bitcoin is to make finance more democratic, more accessible to the average person. That certainly lends itself very nicely with sort of charity and the notion of micro lending and trying to empower people who are not currently empowered. I think particularly the micro lending aspect of things is a natural fit for people that are interested in Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies. Chris, Atlas. You're muted. You want to see how we treat our homeless people actually in the UK. We actually put spikes on the ground to stop them from sleeping rough in places like outside of apartments. There's been a massive backlash here in the UK against it. Tesco, one of big retailer here has just removed their anti-homelessness spikes from their shops after a massive kind of Twitter kind of outroar. So I'm very, very much in favor of everything that he's doing. Sean's outpost is just like the best thing about the whole Bitcoin community. It's a shame that he didn't raise more money and Stanley only raised about a fifth. And you know what that makes me think time is that we should do more of those Photoshop competitions for other people actually, since you're so good at organizing those and getting people riled up. We should be keeping that top of people's mind like all the time because people are very generous. And I think we've kind of proved that. I've asked a few fundraisers that we've done on Twitter where we've got people to do those funny images. So maybe that's our service to the Bitcoin community. Maybe we just do these kind of spontaneous crowdsourcing and we get some funny images and we put up on Twitter and we actually get people to donate. I mean, I'm imagining you can still donate to him, right? Even after this. Still taking donations for a Sean's outpost. And we know he's going that they used to feed the dogs. Yeah, it's very cool. Very cool. Yeah, I saw the stories about the spikes being put out on businesses in and in public areas too. That's just terrible. And it really shows the mindset that people have over here in the States too, people have the same mindset that these homeless people are not human beings that they're closer to dogs or stray animals. And it's really unfortunate to see that. But everyone loves a feel good story and I think that's why Sean's outpost has been so successful because it's directly addressing a problem that's only been growing since the economic recession. So this is a serious problem that's only getting worse. And Bitcoin is this radical technology, the idea that it can be used to help people to get here and in other countries and the unbanked all around the world. It just makes sense. It fits into Bitcoin's theme. It's this radical technology that's also solution oriented. So people love this feel good story. But there's also the price that hopefully it will continue going up in the long term. But after these huge spikes, you saw a lot more people donating. Like Chris said, the wealth effect and all these things are also playing into that. And it also just makes sense as a way to get other people on board with Bitcoin, especially people who maybe they're not into economics so much. Maybe they're more focused on maybe the social justice side of things. Maybe they're not even in politics at all, but they're just volunteering and helping people. This just provides another avenue for them. And it appeals to the heart of so many people who can see what's going on and see the turmoil that's been caused by whatever you want to blame and on whether it's the government causing a lot of these problems, which is what I think. Or these things happening, people can see it, people understand that there's a problem. And they understand that they don't need the same solutions that we've always seen. We need new solutions. We need ones that are going to actually work. And that's what Bitcoin charities are doing. It's proving that Bitcoin is a force for good and directly helping people improving their lives. I actually had an interview that I had to be rescheduled, but I'll be talking with another person in Florida who's gotten into a home with the help of Sean's outposts in Bitcoin. And so far, it's like 11 or 12 people who've gotten into homes just in Pensacola alone with the help of Sean's outposts and the generosity of the Bitcoin community. So there are actual success stories that you can see in real life. And I just think that's a beautiful thing. And the more people know about it and the more it tugs on their heartstrings, I think the more people will naturally come into Bitcoin and view it as a solution to not just problems of poverty, but economic problems. When one of the things when I was talking to Patrick Byrne, he was saying he was considering giving his employees an option to take their bonus in Bitcoin. And I know he's talked about maybe setting some aside. For businesses that's great from an economic standpoint, if we expect Bitcoin to rise in value over a long term, then they're going to be able to protect themselves from maybe some of these regulations that keep coming down on them. Business is highly regulated, but even the nonprofit sector is highly regulated and in bind with government. So Bitcoin provides an out for that. And I think a better solution. And it's the micro payments at the core of Bitcoin, the fact that you can donate $5 and it won't get eaten up by credit card fees. You could donate $5 cents. It won't get eaten up. And the power of these thousands of donations, hundreds of thousands of $5 donations can really make anything possible. And it's true. We are raising money on Twitter to send Chris Ellis on a world-win tour of America. As you can see, many famous artists have Photoshopped Chris Ellis, especially this one here, whereas guns are labeled Freedom and Deep Fried Twinkies. Note the tank top. Ladies. Chris Ellis to DC. We've raised more than 2.9. Let's refresh this. 2.9 bitcoins from 34 donors. Thanks to everyone who's donated so far. Did you know you could donate right here from this QR code. The Bitcoin group is being broadcast live on the world crypto network at worldcryptonenetwork.com. And that's enough plugs. Moving on. Issue 5. Bitcoin in the Beltway. Schedule announced. Bitcoin in the Beltway. The upcoming Bitcoin conference will be going on next week. June 20 through June 22 is going off in the nation's capital with a powerful list of speakers, including the Bitcoin groups, very own, Christoph Atlas, Davy Barker, Paige Peterson, Andreas Antonopoulos, Megan Lourdes, and much, much more. Are you attending the conference? What are you most looking forward to? Chris, I'm really out most looking forward to speaking and hearing some of my friends speak of course. Last time I looked at the schedule, there wasn't anyone's schedule at the same time as me. I'm just waiting for someone to get the schedule at the same time so I can find out who I need to get some food poisoning so people actually come to see my talk instead of theirs. I think it's going to be a really great talk. I was talking to a friend the other day. I won't name him, but he was like, I'm so pumped to be talking at Bitcoin in the Beltway. It's going to be huge. Really he feels like the presentation he's going to give is going to be the most important presentation that he's given so far in his life. I think that really says a lot about what people's expectations are for this event. Chris, Ellis. Yeah, thanks to everyone who's donated. I wasn't expecting it. I've been waking up every morning to even more money entering my Bitcoin account. We're pretty much there in terms of the money. I think we've got enough now that I can book the flights. We've got somewhere to stay except for Sunday, which we just have to work out when we get there. That's really cool. I'm looking forward to everyone being in the same room at the same time. That's going to be epic. That is going to be absolutely phenomenal. It's going to feel really, really good. It's going to be a good atmosphere as long as I'm allowed over the border should be fine. I did look at the visa rules. A little bit of a gray area when you're a journalist apparently, but yeah, so hopefully I'll get on the plane. Hopefully the NSA aren't watching this video right now and I'll be allowed through. That'd be really cool. And just remember, use milk to counteract the pepper spray. Oh, yeah. For one of those tear gas canisters, pick it up and throw it back. I'm looking forward to, I want to go to 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. I hear that's where your king lives. I want to see the monarchy. I want to see you got a monarchy, right? Who makes the decision? The Red Pine House, but surprisingly small on the inside. Yeah, I want to see the set of the West Wing. I want to see where Josh and CJ used to hang out. That's real. That wasn't fiction, right? We'll have to do a walk and talk. I was a documentary. I'm sure it was a documentary. TV president was a much better president. He was a great president. Great president. Megan Lorde. Oh my gosh, he is. I'm so excited about this conference. So Jason and I organized it and there are a couple other people to do it. And I cannot believe how well it's coming together. We have a couple of surprises for everyone too. I can't even contain my excitement. It's the only thing that's been on my mind for months now. And I'm really looking forward to seeing all the talks, Christavs. I'm glad that Chris is able to come. I'm just glad to see everyone in person too. My favorite part about these conferences is getting to meet all of these big pointers that I interact with through Twitter and Facebook and some of these other social media sites and connecting with them in real life and seeing them face to face. And I'm just extremely excited. I think it's going to go really well. And if you haven't gotten a ticket yet, it's not too late. Please consider coming. We have the most radical talks too. This isn't going to be a Bitcoin conference like some of these other ones where you're going to have to sit around and listen to these regulators talk for hours about how they want control of Bitcoin. Pretty much all the speakers are going to be talking on really radical things. Bitcoin not bombs is going to be their selling t-shirts. One that says our rebel with the Bitcoin symbol. And then the other one that says kill the precedent, which is an article that was written by Davi about judicial precedent. So I really... You're going to have to say that. If that's not like treason, don't you get sense to like the gun tower and like get hung or something? Or is that just what we do? You know, if the government really wanted to crack down on the most radical Bitcoiners, this would be the conference to do it. But I'm very happy that we have... You still have the freedom in this country to throw a... Basically an anarchist conference in the middle of DC and self kill the precedent shirts there. So we're going to be taking full advantage of it. And I think you guys are going to realize this is going to be a very different conference than some of the other ones you've seen. So I look forward to seeing everything. In case the third is watching, I just think we should pepper spray him. I'm not condoning killing the president by any means. Oh no, no, not president. Oh. Yeah, no, no, no, no. We're not telling kill the president. Shards. You cannot sell kill the president t-shirts. Yeah, that's what we said. That's what I was like for. No, I thought it was making your precedent PR. Yeah, but that's clearly a plan on. In T, maybe. But it's a bit... A legislator. No, precedent, you know. What difference does it make? Oh, and by the way, milk does totally work for pepper spray. I've heard so now I'm going to try to carry around a cotton milk with me around Washington, DC. I might have some raw milk. I don't know. You were talking about it. I'm not doing anything on it. You're looking at a cotton milk. But I'm looking at the milk. Oh, look what he did with the milk. I heard the crap out of myself with Hellapeno peppers and milk is the only thing that works. I have to introduce you to Mexican food as well, Chris. Damn. Hey. Your thoughts on the conference? I'm just so disappointed that I'm not going to be able to attend. I've got some things that I'm preparing up here where I am in New Hampshire for another festival that's taking place directly after the Bitcoin Beltway Festival called the Porcupine Freedom Festival. Some people on the panel will be attending, so I look forward to seeing you up there. And I hope that everyone has an amazing time. There's a lot of great media producers who are going to be there. The World Crypto Network will be there as well. So I look forward to seeing some videos produced by the World Crypto Network and Mad Bitcoin. Hey, Will, Tangman, just joining us. What do you think about the Washington DC Bitcoin in the Beltway conference? I can hardly contain myself. As Megan said, it's very exciting. All the speakers, the lineup is incredible. Charlie Shrem was led out of his house, so he'll be there. You know, all these things are really, really exciting. And I think it was Megan who said, you know, what really great part about these conferences is you get to meet all of these friends of yours that you've never actually seen, IRL or in Meet Space, you know. It's a wonderful experience. Meet space. Great. Let's see. Do we have some questions and answers? There's still chance if you want to put in some questions and answers. Be for Basti Rights. I went to London and was really surprised. Many of the coinmap.org locations don't even exist anymore. Most of the other locations I visited had major troubles finding out how to accept Bitcoin. It's really sad. Has anyone else had a bad experience with coinmap? Maybe something that you thought was going to be there? It's not very good. And I've had terrible experiences paying for Bitcoins inside of shops. And the people don't, the shopkeepers usually, there's like someone's left their old iPhone in the till. And then they open up the till and the batteries don't work or the internet's not working. And then you end up paying cash anyway because it's too much hassle. And it gets kind of embarrassing. And I have gone in and I've shown people how to do it. But I think shopkeepers are just like, you know, they only really want to do it because they think they'll get some marketing buzz out of it. But that only works for a while and once it starts to become more mainstream. I really do think that Peter told has a point and that the incentive structures of Bitcoin need to be reexamined. And I've said before many times I did it in the let's talk Bitcoin episode. I said one part of the Satoshi paper that he was most unsure of was the incentives which starts on page four. So I do think we need to reexamine it from the ground up as a community. Any other experiences with CoinMap or local businesses? I've experienced much the same thing with CoinMap. You know, I found myself going there to check it out and then staying an extra hour to put in the businesses that aren't listed. So there's that. But to Chris's point, I largely agree with him on, you know, the merchants struggles, you know, someone comes in and sets them up slap dash gives them an old device and let's them rip, you know, and they're not going to get much business that way. It has to be much more proactive effort. We talked about this in the earliest episodes of this show. How much hands-on caretaking needs to be done by the local activists who are advocating for this with these merchants. So I'm curious though, Chris, would you be able to elaborate on the incentives that you think are poorly formulated or maybe even how they might be adjusted? Well, of course, if I knew the answer to how they would be adjusted, I'd be a very important rich person right now. I don't know the answer because the problem is that people have to believe what other people believe and they have to believe that those Bitcoins are going to hold that value over the long term. And at the moment, I think Bitcoin has far too much speculative sentiment keeping it up. I think what would be, what's bullish for me is that so many businesses and so many professional investors are now getting involved from a VC side, that certainly stands out. Well, the problem with those local shops is the community isn't there to support them when it goes wrong. They dump them with an old phone and they say, oh, you know, we'll get this for some PR value. We get an article in Coin Desk saying this coffee shop in shortage now takes Bitcoin. But then they just walk away because they got what they really wanted, which is the story in the headline. But what they didn't really want was the sustainable like, yeah, this is always going to be there. That's shop people's going to be, you know, really cool. What we tried to do with Fedacoin with doing with the open source POS that we're making. So all these POSs have like got a lot of funding and we just felt like that was a bit unnecessary. So we just hacked one together with a 3D printer and just like a raspberry pie that anyone can just make themselves. And the key thing is that you've got to keep going back to that merchant and like saying, are you okay? Is everything working for you? Would you like to see more, you know, we often have to do like organized giving where you do have to kind of push people into buying it. But even then long term, I don't know. The problem is that you're incentivized to mind the blocks and distribute payments across the network in exchange for receiving more of the very tokens that will be distributed across the network in the future. And yet we haven't yet answered the question of why do you want the tokens in the first place and why wouldn't you, as we've seen in all other markets, jump to something else that's even more new, even more novel when that comes along. So you see my problem. We've seen this already in commodities markets. People just jump from trend to trend. There's even a phrase for it in trading. It's called the trend is your friend and you just back whatever's going up. And as a result, if the very thing that you need to hold its value, the money that has to hold its value over the long term, will sell it because they won't want to hold something if it can't pay for the dreams that they're thinking about. Then they'll just get rid of it. And then it's ceases to have any value. The thing that Fiat currency has is it's got a resistance to the drop. The biggest problem with the price dropping is that it's allowed to go up as fast as it does. That's the biggest problem that Bitcoin has. It's allowed to do these like exponential rallies. And we need more stability in order for it to be viable. I'm afraid. And I don't think anyone's got a really good answer yet. Yeah, Bitcoin has kind of the opposite problem of the dollar. So Bitcoin, the supply is extremely fixed, but there's such a low volume that it's prone to swinging quite wildly. And it's an attractive vehicle for speculators not only to jump into, but also to jump back out of. That's very important that Chris points out that people, if they're just looking for short-term investment, they're going to dump their coins at some point, not in the distant future. Whereas the dollar, on the other hand, people are terribly meddling with the supply of the dollar. That's a complete clusterfuck. But it's so stable and value over the short term that people are willing to hold on to it and use it for everyday goods and services and exchanges. And as a result, they completely don't think about the speculative value of the dollar and what the long-term prognosis of the dollar is. And so you have people who actually hold on to dollars for a really, really long time, and they do actually get hit by inflation. But it's so such a slow-moving kind of frog boiling in the pot kind of effect that it's the opposite effect. Big coin people, they're dumping their coins too quickly. Dollar people, they hold on to their dollars too quickly. And we as humans are just really not good at getting our minds wrapped around the exact risk and making good financial decisions based on the expected value as opposed to the animal spirits of the speculation. Yeah, I had two quick things to add. I agree with a lot of what both of you said. So this is a realization I had recently looking back at the willy report and how quickly the price of Bitcoin, potentially the last three bubbles were manipulated by these bots or similar activities, or just Gox in general if you want to get really specific. But that's all fake. That was all fake, essentially, potentially. I think there's good evidence to suggest that. So the real rises of value for Bitcoin won't be like that. They shouldn't be like that. Like you guys are talking about, I think you make a very fair point. The other thing I wanted to raise is meetups should be hosting meetups at the merchants that accept Bitcoin periodically or perennially or whatever. Just do that to support them. You keep showing up. You keep having a couple of people spend your money there. And it becomes a thing in the community. It becomes a solidified. And if multiple merchants around town or accepting Bitcoin, that's a great thing. Have multiple meetups. Have the developers meet up. Have nonprofits for Bitcoin meetup. Merchant services for beginners in Bitcoin and things like this. And even if it's a small ice cream parlor, there's no seating area. Make an event about it. If you're wondering meetup organizers out there, if you're wondering for things to do to keep it spicy and keep people coming back, make two or three things on your program agenda. And maybe you can hit two or three places in town for one meetup event. So good idea. Well, if you get a Bitcoin business in your area, you need to water it so it'll grow. It's still very early. They're taking a risk. You're taking a risk. We should take that risk together. And if you get a restaurant or somewhere you can go, you should try to go there regularly, like Wilson. Anyone else to add to that? All right. We could use some more questions. If anyone has more questions, Jamie says that he has extra money to give to charity thanks to saved transaction fees. So again, Bitcoin coming through, providing us with extra money through value rise and transaction fees. I really like your point on that, Thomas. That's a brilliant insight because I've been starting to work for a charity recently. And from what I understand, the vast majority of the old world, old world charities, the legacy charities, so to speak, are they get the vast majority of their money from very, very wealthy donors. They wind them and die in them and they convince them to give them money. And the small people, it's something, but it's not a whole lot. If you just give five bucks, 20 bucks, whatever with your credit card, that's really not the majority of the charities funds. Whereas I think Bitcoin offers another model of doing charities where you could actually have a localized effect, but actually be given money from people all over the world and very small amounts and cut out the transaction fees that opens up a whole lot of avenues for charities that have not been possible in the past. It does feel very bottom up with Bitcoin charity. As I'm sure you guys remember, the FR338 campaign to the Philippines. The money was raised internationally. It was given directly to the Philippines. The aid was prepared, sent out there on boats, all within days of the tragedy. There was no set up necessary. Everyone trusted and the system worked. So Bitcoin can't do amazing things. And we're going to be exploring this topic further at Bitcoin in the Beltway. I'll be moderating the panel with Jason, Andreas, and Dovey. And we're really going to be exploring this topic. So it's something that's been on a lot of our minds lately. And like Christoph said, blockchain technology is opening up an entire new world for charities in the nonprofit sector. Moving on to predictions or a story of the week. Chris Ellis, are you ready with a prediction or a story of the week? Yeah, well I was going to go back to the prediction I made a couple of weeks ago. I can actually find the window. Moving on to someone else and then I'll get the window up. Megan Lord. So my prediction is that Bitcoin in the Beltway is going to be super awesome and you all should go and about it. I'm a bit wiped out. We're kind of in the crunch time phase right now. So I don't have any super great predictions other than that. Megan stealing my thunder there. Derek J. Yeah, I read a story this week about a 15 year old named Eric who started a company with money that he made in Bitcoin. And he heard about Bitcoin when he was 11 years old. He bought someone when he was 13 and he sold them two years later at a massive profit. He's using the money to build a video tutorial website called Botangle that is instructive for students and he pays his employees in Bitcoin. This 15 year old kid pays his employees in Bitcoin. And I love this story because it's a success story that's made entirely from Bitcoin because a 13 year old can't just go to the bank and start a bank account because it's not allowed. But Bitcoin doesn't care who you are or where you're from as long as you have a Bitcoin wallet. So my prediction is that future entrepreneurs and employers will be younger than ever thanks to the equalizing freedom of Bitcoin. All right, good. Kristoff atlet. Okay, so my story of the week is based on a security advisor that I put out on Monday. So this is a really important piece of information, sorry, for blockchain.info users. So blockchain.info over time they've had various ways of trying to do your transactions more privately, right? Like you can do their normal transactions. And then for a while they had their send shared mixer, which was kind of like an off chain mixer. And then they replaced that with shared coin, which is supposed to be an implementation based on the coin joint protocol where blockchain.info users are kind of mixing their coins together at the same time. It all goes through in one transaction. And the idea is that it's hard to trace back through those transactions. Now I've been doing some research recently about shared coin and discovered some flaws in the implementation. People are interested in learning about the details of the advisory. You can go to coinjoinsudoku.com and you'll find all the details there. I'll be releasing a proof of concept tool in about a week and a half after people have had time to secure their assets and make sure that their stuff is private. But the main takeaway that I want to communicate with people is, I guess two things. One is if you're using blockchain.info and you've been using shared coin as a means to do things more privately, just keep in mind. But this is a very, very, very light layer of protection with privacy. I know that blockchain.info would like to improve their service in the future and maybe I'll work with them and collaborate with them on that. But just keep in mind that for now it's more something to kind of keep your friends' noses out of your finances if they're not really programmers, but it's a very light layer of privacy. The second thing that I really want to bring up is what I see is an asymmetry in funding when it comes to Bitcoin privacy. So there are all these venture capitalists that are putting money, giving money to political entrepreneurs who have realized if I can break the privacy of Bitcoin, if I can create black lists and white lists and create naughty lists and nice lists for Bitcoin, I can sell this to the government for millions of dollars. The VCs can make quite a good return on investment. It's really not hard to do this analysis. We still do not, we have really pissed poor options when it comes to Bitcoin privacy. It's really quite poor. There's a lot of funding going into that area. In the meanwhile there's almost no funding going into the area of improving Bitcoin privacy. That's in terms of developing software that can improve privacy. People like myself who are working on stuff to try and test this privacy, trying to come up with empirical measurements of the privacy, seeing if it passes the muster and trying to break these systems. Blockchained.info to their credit, they did pay me a small bounty. I really appreciate that. That tells me that they really do care about security and privacy of their systems and that they really want to incentivize people and they're willing to kind of walk the walk in addition to talking it. That's blockchain on info and good on them for doing that. I'm not seeing a lot of VC funding going into this area. The only project that I can really think of that's been in this area that's been even funded is Dark Wallet and they received something on the order of maybe 50 to $100,000 of funding that was crowdsourced and not from venture capitalists at all, it's from many different people. Maybe that's the model we need to go with. Maybe we need the crowdfunding for this kind of area. I think that people are kind of undervaluing the importance of Bitcoin privacy right now. We have this vague sense that it has something to do with fungibility and fungibility is kind of important and it has something to do with whether consumers will adopt it in the future if they are kind of scared that their friends are going to be looking at their finances. We haven't really wrapped our heads around just how important privacy is and how much devastating it is going to be when these very, very well-funded entrepreneurs release their tools onto the market because I guarantee you they're being paid quite handsomely to develop these tools. They're working on them steadily quietly in the background and it's going to get ugly when they finally come out. I think we're going to be shocked by just how thoroughly they can analyze the blockchain when they finally drop. The only thing we can really do to protect ourselves from that is to continue to put effort and resources into protecting our privacy as best as we can. Will Pangman? Yeah, I just want to echo what Christoph said before I share my little story. I was talking with a VC friend of mine today who's out west and we had a conversation about how some of the biggest players in the space, not just the Bitcoin space but the VC space are very keen to back more centralized solutions around Bitcoin or centralized business services that might be pitched to them and even be quoted as saying such in major publications. This is very concerning to those of us who as Christoph articulated very well see we have some of us wrapped our minds around the privacy issue with regard to Bitcoin and preserving that. That's definitely a discussion that is being had by the VC's out west and it's going up is what I'll say. My story of the week is an email I got from a viewer who just started a meetup in Ghana in Africa and I'll just read a little short bit here. First off I'd like to say I'm a fan of the Bitcoin group on YouTube. You guys always have thought-provoking discussions. I recently started a Bitcoin meetup here in Ghana and yesterday was our first one this is a couple days ago. I have to say that it was really a surreal experience. I could not remember the last time I was so filled with enthusiasm. I think a lot of the members also felt the same way. We briefly discussed how critical it is to educate people here in order to expand the Bitcoin economy here in Africa. There's some other kind words that this this viewer shared so I just want to say thank you for Shant and all of you Bitcoiners in Ghana. We will be watching you and we hope you keep watching us. You'll have some email replies coming your way soon for sure and some ideas and we'd love to help you guys out however we can. Those of you out there who have thought about maybe starting a meetup because there isn't one close enough to you. Maybe you're in a suburb and there's one in the city you don't get too very often. I hope this email can kind of serve as encouragement to start one where you are. It can be done. There's one Bitcoin meetup in Ghana right now and so why not have one in Scottsdale? Very cool email Will and I look forward to Ghana playing the US in the world cup although they have a very good team. I'll be very rough on our US squad but I hope they do well. Chris Ellis are you ready for the story of the week? I am ready so I found the window it was lurking in the background. Okay so a couple of weeks ago on the Bitcoin group I said that I expected the next difficulty adjustments on the Bitcoin mining network to be under 15%. We have just under five days to go and we're currently at a predicted difficulty adjustment of 11.55. I've seen this pattern now emerge over the last few difficulty adjustments where just approaching the end of a time period of adjustment we see a massive rise up and then as it falls over you get this massive drop off. This is a drop off of more than 10% of the overall network hash rate and the last adjustment that we had. It was something like a 12% reduction or 13% petahashes. That's just too much of a coincidence. That's not just a few people who just happen to all be switching off their very expensive ASIC miners all at the same time that they pay good money for. It's certainly not going to be anyone owning graphics cards because those have all stopped mining now. We've seen it yet again and I think what's happening is you are getting some collusion. This is the current share price on sexio which is the gigahash.io share price and you can see that actually even though early on when it was trading it was just like a waterfall. It was just down down down down down down and now we've had these kind of three weeks of stability and I think what's happening is the miners are starting to play the market. This has come up on the allegiance mining pool where they've seen some selfish mining where people just withhold the block. It's called a block withholding attack. Now it's important to mention that the attacker doesn't gain anything from doing this either. They just discard the work but then what happens is the pool ends up paying out anyway and I would draw your attention back. It's actually in the abstract of the original Satoshi paper. At the end of the abstract he says messages of broadcast on the best effort basis and nodes can leave and rejoin the network at will accepting the longest proof of work chain as proof of what happened while they were gone. So you see the important things Satoshi is communicating here is we need to know this network is going to be okay whilst we're not around and any form of centralization is a very bad idea because you simply can't let another human being and just trust them with all of that control. It may not stop at 50%. So it's absolutely right that we do expend a community effort at this point and we say no look we're going to keep this to its core principles that we founded it on. We do not want a small concentrated group of people just having all of this power and having all this discretion. They could do all kinds of things with it and bear in mind that the pool operators don't necessarily control what the individual miners do with their hash rate. So it's not even as though they can police it. So there have been large calls for people to join P2 pools. The Revolce Open calls by Peter Todd which you can see on on Reddit actually if you just... I was going to show you Sir Bits a lot. He's on Twitter and he often makes some very very good predictions. He's been commenting about it. You should also look up Peter Todd as well because he's been making some really smart comments about it. So sorry to bang on about it but I think it's really important because if we go to sleep on this issue and we just get complacent I'd really like to hear what Christophe thinks as well but I don't think we should just be like oh yeah it's be okay because the incentives are sort of out. I think this is an ongoing engineering effort. I think actually the work that needs to be done now is we need to work out how to get the human part right because that was the part that Satoshi was most uncertain of in his original paper. Christophe what do you think? Yeah I mean I do think we need to be vigilant on these topics. I have some skepticism about the kind of doomsday scenarios that people have sped up about this stuff because they haven't panned out so far certainly. I remember in particular there was the people that released the paper about the incentives and how all these miners they were going to start doing double spending and then the rest of them are ready to go along with it because there was a small financial incentive for them to jump into that group and it was just going to spiral out of control and that never happened. And they were like oh well we didn't even test it because we didn't want to break Bitcoin. We wanted to be nice guys and we wanted to let you know about it before trying it out ourselves but of course it just didn't happen. So I think that this field of study of incentives is very very important and it's fairly new. I think that the Bitcoin network and the mining stuff in particular very complex beast and not that similar kind of network that we study before. It's a new field of study really and I just certainly don't have deep insight into it but I'm really glad that people are paying close attention to this stuff because it is quite important. I think it has less to do at this point it has less to do with this simplistic view of mining of simply being a means of securing the network. There's just so much stuff moving machinery in there that the networking be secure for some definition of secure but the mining is still not working out the way that we wanted to and so I think that we need to keep our rest of the situation. Yeah this is this is Peter Todd's Twitter and I've got no reason necessarily to to support this guy. He did slag off further coin at least once he said that you know after our 51% attacks that we have back in the summer that no exchange would accept us and since then we've gone on to be accepted by quite a number of new exchanges actually. So okay no one's perfect not everyone gets this right but to learn about Bitcoin is to learn about ourselves as people. I think that we're all at the moment learning a lesson in human incentive structures, human behaviors that's what people find this so captivating that's why they get into it's why they get besotted with it. This is the post that Peter made on our Bitcoin I think it was earlier today. Why I just saw 50% of my bitcoins because of this bigger hash and he offers three possible avenues of research to eliminate the pools number one provide away for miners to solo mine with low variance actually further coin is addressing this by introducing a new algorithm every time we start to notice some efficiency gains. There's no reason why we should let the miners take it easy right because there's is an entrepreneurial endeavour it mining should be a marginally profitable activity. It shouldn't be this kind of thing where you can kind of corner the market and just make lots of money by selling your shares in plated prices, do ignorant punters you don't know better and the third option is getting rid of basics which addresses the same point. So you've got a lot of comments you can go check that out and I would encourage people to start thinking very hard about this it's not just um technical engineers that we need we also need thinkers as well on people you know in the behavioral economics field people in psychology and philosophy will be very helpful. I don't really understand that. Oh I just wanted to add something to what Chris was saying in the post by Peter Todd. I agree with the concerns and I just wanted to play devil's advocate for a minute with regard to number three on Peter Todd's list to get rid of basics. So of course I see the the issues with centralization around that but I think long term it's a definite benefit to have this massive arms race if you will with asic development. So I'm not so I'm more concerned about the asics on the market and the ones that are about to hit the market and more encouraged by the ones that have yet to be developed that you know like the next generation. I think you know this arms race is is one of the fastest growing areas in all of tech it's one of the most incredibly rapidly innovating and that's going to have positive reverberations in my opinion outside of processing power and you know maybe even in connectivity and data transfer speeds down the line you know years down the line. So these are things that I wonder about too like the valid points Christov and Chris are both making I just always like to wonder what are some of the positive side effects of some of this maybe greedily incentivized behavior that some that we might be seeing in space. But why shouldn't we see an arms race between the developers of the coin for example implementing neo script as we are and just letting them out. Well what's wrong with that being the arms race? Well I guess I would say it's a different process right I mean the the types of businesses that can pop up and just start building these chips and building better and better and faster chips more efficient everything that's kind of you know if you have the capital you can do it that's not the case with advancing the protocol Bitcoin correct I mean there's a long review process you have to achieve a large consensus for introducing these big coin improvements proposals and things like that so it's a much it's not as like free market if you will you know you have to really have a major majority before any of these can be taken seriously let alone implement it's very fragile process. Yeah no you're all right you're absolutely right is a difficult thing to get through I mean we announced at the beginning with our coin that we would always try to stay ahead of the miners disencentibized since we've an engineer the ASICs in the first place by saying that we would periodically be changing the algorithm and what that means is that you know merchants can process their own fees because they can buy a affordable mining equipment this is equipment that you can repurpose from old machinery because it's you don't have to like have these very very specialized computers you can use a graphics card which you can get from from any old computer so I think that it distributes the coin so for a wider population it lowers the barrier to entry to get into the mining in the first place and I kind of thought that was the point Chris maybe you can understand you can explain this for me I don't understand the arguments in favor of trying to get rid of ASICs the more that you democratize mining the more that you put mining the hands of people that have absolutely no clue about how to secure their computers and so to me by trying to spread out mining to more and more CPU based machines simply what you're doing is you're driving mining into botnets and I don't think that botnets are necessarily a less centralized or better behaving group of actors than the people that build ASICs and run them well at the moment everything centralized around the pool so a pool can be attacked and then you know someone can do something nefarious with that so it's not necessarily it's not necessarily not a problem for ASICs either and I think a lot of the people that I know that are for ASICs don't really care about the Bitcoin network they're just in this for the money and that's because of the way those ASICs are marketed to them so I don't necessarily trust them any better but you are right this is an educational issue we do need to make sure that people are well informed but that's why this is as much a community effort about making how-to videos about showing people what to do how to secure their computer I mean that's a problem that everyone needs to worry about not least because they need to check their very own coins as well so I would see that as a part and parcel of the whole package of education people since they're going to have to learn how to do that anyway pretty soon yeah two quick points you know the ASICs thing is like the the guys who you know during the gold rush the more money was made on the you know shovel makers and shovel sellers right and you know the people who found gold they did very well but there were more so again the same type of thing you know a mega corporation or you know some conglomerate or monopoly of shovel materials and and manufacturers could come in in corner of the market in the west you know back during the gold rush and so that's kind of like the same old story playing out the the um there it's a very interesting question and I think like you said Chris it's so important for us to think about these incentive structures and and maybe make tweaks make important tweaks as you know the alt points are great laboratories for this as well the only the only other thing I would say about um the incentive structures is I some time the deeper I look at Bitcoin the more I'm convinced that you know I don't want this to be a witch hunt on the incentives too much I mean I think there are some issues that you're we're all pointing out but generally speaking like you read the paper you read those those incentives and then we watch it play out through let's see the first four four and a half years of the history of Bitcoin and it's like the the most close to perfect group of incentives that have ever really been conceived for human cooperation and we've seen that in the growth of this network that to me is almost as genius if not more than the blockchain and the invention of the blockchain itself is the incentives that you know brought this technology to where it is today now we're in a different playing field that's a hugely important point we're in a hugely a much different playing field today than we were last year or in previous years of of the lifespan of this technology so that's maybe we need to reexamine these incentives but I think we should also appreciate uh you know if you look closely at them you can write a whole book about just that but if you look closely at them in their genius I think we I think we overvalue the significance of numbers and what they actually tell us and what they teach us at the minute and I don't think we're looking at some of the softer indicators like how people actually relate to each other and get on I see a lot of selfishness and and greed in the Bitcoin community I've been sweet and about it I got quite a lot of flak on it from Switzerland the other day I didn't mean to say that we don't need market makers but what I was saying was that the people that were on the trollbox when the price was crashing around the Silk Road news were clearly just in it for themselves and they were deliberately creating fud uncertainty doubt they were exploiting people's fears fear is a very very profitable commodity if you know how to use it properly and I'm just like look we can't have a world that's where we're all just going around playing these mind games I think the Bitcoin community needs to be a lot more self-critical it needs to stop being I'm trying to write this blog post for three Beards.com which is a really successful meetup in London and they want me to write an intro on Bitcoin I've been struggling so hard because I start apologizing straight away going look sorry about all the hype everyone I'm sorry that you know like you're constantly being bothered with the Bitcoin but actually this is really important because what it represents is digital scarcity we finally had a way of bringing existence into the world without a staple reference and have it on the internet and have it be scarce that's that that's very significant it means that actually I think I'm seeing a future now where people give by default you don't give because someone puts a gun to your head or because you're scared you give because you're inspired to give and actually if you've got a lot of money that's going to be a frown that's people are going to frown on you people are going to think what are you doing you waiting to be born what just live already you know and that's what I'm that's the sort of rough kind of vision that I'm going for and I still feel like we're a few millimeters often and the angles of where we're going at the moment are diverging from where I think we need to be heading yeah yeah go ahead man that on the crisis point I think that's a really good point to make you can have you know it is say there's a hypothetical where you have this perfect technology you still have to deal with people and they're not perfect I wanted to point y'all's attention I think you guys could really enjoy this article it's a great article by Andrea Castillo and the title of it is Bitcoin is great but it won't fix our monkey brains yeah it's a really good one so I think it addresses some of the social parts of what Chris is saying yeah it's you know these incentive structures are really neat you know you still have people who want to make US dollars or make great British pounds you know you still have people who want to make the fiat money and this is something I realized like I was mentioning in the earlier topic you you you realize that the massive price increases were perhaps entirely fraudulently stimulated I think some of that you know hype was you know a waterfall effect or just a snowball effect or whatever following up Mt. Gox following down Mt. Gox and so on but it's if this you know when this is used as a as a currency because the price has been more stable because now that we read out these bad actors we see or we have a more keen eye on the bots on the exchanges on the trader you know on all of these issues that we've raised you know you're going to see some of these people who are just in it for the ten times that you know the ten times valuation bumps and drops just leave because it's boring for four months straight like we've had in the spring you know people stop trade day trader stop trading altogether and what is when I hear you know what I hear all the time a classic thing I heard once from a Bitcoin trader was all I want is five times and then I'll be out and I I don't I want to stop staring at these charts all I want is five times you kept saying it's like do seriously get real I how much of you actually made net I bet he's lost net I bet overall he's lost because most traders do overall they get too greedy they stare at the charts they make unnecessary decisions they get drawn in by all the hype and the speculation and the fear and sentience the trollbox whatever and then they fall for it and the only ones that shout and scream about how much money they've made are the ones that don't and the ones that do don't tell anyone about it because then if they're too smart for that they go you know they go off and they take a trip and they don't brag about it so I think a lot of us just have to kind of not not us on this show but like people within this community at large need to kind of grow up a little bit and just be like how is this sustainable in the long term for real people because this isn't getting into Africa anytime soon because that feeds it is way too high this is exactly the point the key word is community you know you have these traders behind their screens and they aren't in the community they're on Reddit maybe but they're not in real life in the community doing doing the important connecting with people this is why Bitcoin is so great this is why it's drawn so many people from disparate ideologies and disparate backgrounds affiliations and everything to it it's not because it's basically agnostic and preferable to everything else it's because the people that they start meeting and talking to this is true for all of us I'm sure you know you go to these events whether it's a Bitcoin conference or your local meet up or any other similar thing and you feel fulfilled like the email from you know the reason I love that email from Ghana from Prashant and his and the people there in Ghana is because this is exact it's a brief encapsulation of the exact feeling that many of us have felt whenever we at first attended a meet up or started or first got involved in this this whole space and met all these wonderful people you realize how many amazing people there are but if you're behind a computer screen trading you don't no you just see other people as numbers they're just there to be used you're just there to to make your exit and you don't even think about the effects it has on the other side of the of that screen you don't think that there's another human being somewhere that's got their own needs and so on there's being negatively affected by your by your thing and of course the person that wins is the middle man and I thought we were supposed to be getting away from middle men I thought that was the whole point of Bitcoin as we weren't going to have these centralised institutions but now you've got the exchanges and they're making all the money so anyway it's been a long long discussion it's stuck in this old mindset you know they still think that this is just a new toy like an app or something and they don't realize it's actually bringing new paradigm maybe that paradigm we feel it's like it's here but maybe it's actually not here yet for majority of other people so when it arrives finally some of this behavior can start to be you know like naturally disincentivized very good moving on to prediction the world crypto network will do an incredible job covering the Bitcoin in the beltway conference and with your help we might even get Chris to travel to New York let's see New York pork fest St. Louis Chicago the Grand Canyon Las Vegas San Francisco and maybe even Sacramento Bitcoin so I never saw nothing Bitcoin supported media you're watching it right here so why not donate a little bit I think we should send a crossback to dinosaur times Jurassic Park too can you do that with enough Bitcoin you can oh really oh cool we can do like a 51% attack on Kigahatch right now we can scale the Bitcoin 70 back in time I can reinvent Bitcoin 60 million years ago and give it to the dinosaurs we'll have worked out the incentive structures well we're out of time until next time bye bye bye