The Bitcoin Group, the American original, for over the last ten seconds, the sharpest satoshi's, the best bitcoins, the hardest cryptocurrency talk. We're joined by Chris Ellis from Feathercoin, Megan Lawrence from Bitcoin, not bombs. And Kristoff Atlas from Anonymous Bitcoin book. Hey, he has gone. Issue one. World crypto. What's it going? 2014 Bitcoin Costume Contest. Mad bitcoins and his merry crew of superheroes took care of business this weekend at the San Jose Big Wow Comic Fest. They set up a costume contest using only paper wallets with the prize money crowdfunded by the Bitcoin community. So far more than half of Bitcoin has been donated, but the contest is not over yet. Awards will be given out tomorrow morning, right here on this very channel, the World Crypto Network. 11 a.m. tomorrow morning. It was supposed to be announced on this show, but we changed it. We bumped it. We moved it. We gave them the old. What's that called again? The old switcheroo. The old switcheroo. So vote for your favorites. Well, there's still time Bitcoin Costume Contest, great contest or the greatest contest. Who's your favorite and why Chris Ellis? I think the alien is my favorite. I'm a huge fan of that franchise or at least the first three anyway before you know, he got butchered. But yeah, I really want to know a little bit more about this. So you just did this spontaneously. You just went out there and the plan. We were talking about it during the World Crypto Network meeting and we were just brainstorming what kind of ideas what we could do for a show and Jerrica who plays a black widow in the costume contest. She's an avid cosplayer been doing this for a while and she was coming down to San Jose and I'm close enough to San Jose to make it happen. So we pulled it off and people that you signed up, they weren't in Bitcoin already, right? Like you're actually getting them on board. Most of them have no idea what Bitcoin is at all. I remember we were telling a Superman and he just seemed like we were talking about some alien stuff. He just had these bright blue eyes and he had no idea what we were talking about. But I was very serious with each one of them when I gave them the envelope. I was like, this is like cash. If you lose this envelope, you lose your prize. Like there's no other copy of this key. It's inside of here. So that was the most serious part. You're going to send them over to blockchain.info. Yep, they've got paper wallets, instructions to go to blockchain to set up an account. And then a little bit of instruction if they want to go to gift or somewhere to cash it into a gift card and then they could buy something they wanted, Amazon or Target or anywhere. And I expect them to spend it if they learn how to use it. It's possible they could save some too. But the real advantage here is that these cost players, especially the professional ones who rent booths and sell photos of themselves at these conventions, they travel around the country and they have a need for Bitcoin. They use a square, they use that credit card thing on top of your iPhone. They could use Bitcoin just as easily. And this gives 15 of them a chance to get into Bitcoin. Oh, that's very good. I really pulled that. Well done. Megan, Lord. So I think this is a great culture to overlap with Bitcoin. Like you said, these people are traveling the conferences all around the country. They're using Square. You know, maybe even some of them are agarists and they don't even realize it yet. And I think Bitcoin would be great for them. And I think my favorite cost of I'm going to have to say the alien too. It could be because it looks like a real alien. I mean, the details on that cost of a crazy, like you can't even tell, I mean, obviously it's a person there, but you can't even tell it's a person in there. And that's just so crazy. And yeah, they got definitely nailed that one. Christoph Atlas. I think my favorite was the Benjamin Loskey outfit, which is, I think right now it's ranked at number two. I like that, you know, regulator and executioner. I love you, Jurassic. Yeah, yeah, I love it. It's, I think they really captured the spirit of New York's top financial regulator. Very good. Exit question. Who wins? Final answer. One word. Chris Ellis. The alien is going to win it easily. Megan Lord. Alien. Christoph Atlas. Mad bitcoins in a surprise offset victory. Mad bitcoins in a surprise upset. Of course, the smart money is going with the alien, but there's always a chance for Metroid here. Samus Arun. Could have a comeback. Moving on to issue number two, Bitcoin pizza day. Another year, another pizza. Now the Bitcoin pizzas originally traded two pizzas for 10,000 bitcoins. Over 5,000 bitcoins of pizza are worth more than $5 million. And so we Bitcoiners celebrate Bitcoin pizza day. Bitcoin pizza day, the latest in internet, fat holidays like May the Fourth, talk like a pirate day, your e-snipe, or Christmas may have real staying powers. It offers a chance for Bitcoiners to both atone for their sins of not buying and holding Bitcoin earlier, as well as the opportunity to enjoy some great pizza. What did you do to celebrate Bitcoin pizza day? Do you think this new holiday will catch on? Megan Lords. So I really hope this new holiday catches on. Unfortunately, I'm not supposed to eat pizza because I have a gluten intolerance. So I do love gluten-free pizza though. So I didn't get to celebrate with one, unfortunately, but I was there in spirit. So I do think it's important to have an open holiday where you can make your own pizza or pizza-like alternative. So it doesn't have to be the bread and the dough. Right, right. Christoph, atlas. So today, I guess that those Bitcoins would be worth $5 or $10 million. But here's another way to look at it. 10,000 Bitcoins is a certain percentage of all the Bitcoins that will ever be in existence. There's going to be 21 million roughly in existence in the future. So based on the current estimates that put it up by the Fed, which are probably vastly understated, that would be equivalent to around $609 million if for a pizza. If you took the same percentage of the total currency stock for the US dollar. So I think that's fun to think about that even as ridiculous as that seems right now, it's just going to get more ridiculous in the future. And for $609 million, you'd think they'd throw on some crazy bread, too. Maybe a little soda. Chris, Ellis. I totally missed this. I didn't know. And actually, people were in Pierre Bell, particularly on Twitter, was sending me pizza with changed it. And I was like, oh, cool. Maybe I'm just like a cool dude and people just like me. And then I found out that it was pizza there. I was like, oh, the shame, the shame. So I did miss it. But I definitely think we should do more of this. And I would also like to see each country's cuisine represented because we're, you know, this is a global currency. I think, you know, not that I'm biased, but Britain should go next. So, you know, fish and chips, scones and tea. We talked about this earlier. You can't get scones in America right here. Is that right? I'm a little fancy hotel or something, but. Yeah. I think we should do like each country. Should have a day where we go out and we buy that food. You know, that country's main dish, like its flagship dish with Bitcoin. I like the idea of a Bitcoin being a coin of restaurants. Bitcoin is a coin for people that go out to eat. We can go out to eat together as a group. We can do it on a schedule. And then maybe that can be just a thing to reward restaurants of a certain genre that take Bitcoin. So, Megan Lourdes, what's on your pizza? So I would have a gluten-free crust with red sauce, orgucho carts, definitely. Some uncared pepperoni, onions, red peppers, jalapenos, and cream cheese. And yeah, that sounds about right. Excellent. Christophe Atlas, same question. Well, I'm actually a level five vegan, so I don't eat anything that casts a shadow. I do like this idea that somewhere out there, there's some pizza guy that has 10,000 bitcoins. A little while ago, there was this short story that was posted on Reddit. And it was talking about, it was like the distant future where someone came back from the future. They're like, I went to warn you about the future or Bitcoin. And in this dystopian future, all of the wealthy Bitcoin owners had, they had privatized everything and just gone mad. And they had established what they called Bitcoin Citadel's where they just own vast swathes of land with elaborate buildings and whatnot. And I like to think that one day there's some random pizza dude that just, you know, it's going to be one of those Citadel owners and perhaps they'll get to work as his butler. Very good. Chris Ellis. What's my pizza? Probably American hot, I think. It's keeping it simple. Very good. Moving on, issue three, defiant Brock Pierce will not step down. More drama from the Bitcoin Foundation. In attempting to fill the empty seats of under investigation CEO of BitInstant Charlie Shrem and Mark Carpella, CEO of the bankrupt Mount Gox, the Bitcoin Foundation was looking for a quiet, respectable run of the mill candidate. And that's what they got in Brock Pierce. The former Mighty Duckstar has been accused of some pretty nasty things in his previous dealings and many members of the Bitcoin Foundation have begun resigning in protest. Pierce however, plans to stay on. The Bitcoin Foundation, Great Foundation or the Greatest Foundation, Christoph Ellis. I don't know what to think about this. I mean, I tend to think that I've been asking this question for months now. What does the Bitcoin Foundation do that needs to exist? Why would anyone give them money? Why would people not be demanding refunds for the money that they've given them in the past? What are they doing? I know that there are some people that are working for the foundation, like our colleague Will, who, as far as I know, he worked for free. I don't think he has paid for what he does on the Bitcoin Foundation committee. So that doesn't necessarily need to happen in relation to the Bitcoin Foundation. So I'm really not clear on what it is that they do that is useful. It's interesting to me that no one has been able to answer that question for me. There's paying the developers, right? But you can just, I mean, there are lots of platforms out there for paying developers through bounties and so forth. Because apparently they're burning through something like $150,000 per month doing who knows what I suspect that a lot of it goes into efforts like lobbying and so forth, which again, my problem with these political lobbying efforts has always been there's no way to measure the efficacy of those actions. So you can't go back to the people who gave you their precious Bitcoin to this foundation early on, who many of whom I'm sure would wish that they could have them back now. And say to them, look, this is what we've accomplished. This is the change that we've made in the world based on your very generous funding of our efforts, your very generous funding of our comfortable lifestyles. And as far as their lifestyles go, it's interesting to, I'm sure it would be fascinating to compare the income of the average Bitcoin foundation paid employee as opposed to the people working on the dark wallet project. You've got a tidy sum overall for a crowdfunded software effort, but if you look at at a mere, he's like living in commune and people's, what's that? He's doing that. Yeah, of course. No, but I think part of the reason why he does that is because he can work on projects that people care deeply about, but that people don't necessarily, they can't fund it with deep pockets. So he's able to work on things that are more meaningful to him and more meaningful to the people around him. And it makes the Bitcoin foundation look by comparison like an organization that's established primarily to promote the interests of the large corporations and stakeholders that are funding the Bitcoin foundation. It makes it look like they're a group of political entrepreneurs that are trying to get on the right side of deals to further their wealth beyond what they already have. So I would really love to see something from the foundation showing us, look, this is what we're doing. No one else could have done this better if they were given the same opportunities. And that's what I think we are owed by the Bitcoin foundation. Chris, Ellis. Yeah, I kind of echo a lot of that sentiment really. I do know why they exist, though. It's because the group of people want to get together and agree on a sequence of activities in the future that benefit them. The problem is that the Bitcoin community is such a small, the Bitcoin community is such a small one that everyone's kind of looked at them for representation. The people that don't have strong objections to them kind of think that they should be representing everyone. And when I was at the conference, the question came up is that, you know, why doesn't the foundation represent other blockchains, other all coins? And Gavin Andreessen sort of stepped up quite quickly to say, well, there's nothing in our articles that say we can't. It's just that the other coins seem to set up their own sort of foundations. And I would say my experience in the UK, we've got Paul Gordon here and Ian Cresswell, people like that, who set up the UK DCA, the UK Digital Currency Association. And we ended up getting the VAT, the sales tax taken off of Bitcoin through just getting together and saying, well, who do you know and who do you know? And comparing our contact lists and just kind of educating the government about it. And you know, feather coins, same with whole, hell city and getting in there. It's just a case of educating people because you got to remember the governments of people too. So I wouldn't say that it's so much about, you know, they're being one foundation. I think that these foundations are absolutely necessary, but they're necessary to a locality. So I don't think that we should just leave it with Bitcoin foundation. I think we should all go set up our foundations. And if you can better give a better value proposition than they can, which it looks like, you know, wouldn't be too hard of an effort to undertake, then I think you should absolutely go ahead and do that. So Chris, would you just say that they're basically a cartel at this point? No, I wouldn't say that because when I met them, they kind of came across as decent people. Like I was open-minded. I went in like, yeah, okay, mostly critical. But then when I actually got to see, you know, John face to face and shook his hand and stuff, I was like, okay, you know, these seem like well-meaning people. They answered the questions really, really well when people were criticizing them. And they were quite self-effacing and quite sort of humble, I think, Vesene said that he only gave them the C-minus for their efforts. And I do think that the bounty system doesn't really work. And this was brought up by Mike Kern in his presentation how the reward system at the moment is not really working. And so he's got his lighthouse project, which is like a distributed Kickstarter so that you can raise money. I think that's a great effort. And obviously we do, you know, no open source project is really free because the developer just ends up passing the cost onto their employer or in some other area. So I do think that we need to take a long-hard look at this. As for the actual question, it was about Brock Piss and when I sort of looked into this, I couldn't find that he'd actually being charged. There was stuff being thrown around on the forums and just sort of chitter chatter and this rumours about a settlement. And I think people saw the word settlement and jumped to the conclusion that he'd paid off the prosecutor and got off. And I think that's very fair when I saw him giving talks and stuff. It sounds like he's gone awful lot of experience in this industry. It kind of makes me feel like actually the whole foundation comes across as the kind of people that want power and are good at keeping it once they have it. That kind of worries me a little bit that he sounded like he was already very good at doing deals and making money. I'm interested in a foundation that helps the little guy because I think that's what Bitcoin can have the most impact for. It has the most impact for the people that are weakest and need that representation. So I haven't decided. I haven't made up my mind. I'm definitely going to listen to them if they ask me for help. I'm not going to say no right off the bat. I will definitely give it consideration. But yeah, I have my reservations. Megan Lorde. So this is something I have to do more research on. It's something that is a familiar question ever to like what does the foundation do? I'd like to see results. I'd like to see what they're engaged in, where all of these bitcoins are going. If they're going towards lobbying, obviously that's not something I support. As far as the Brock Pearson, I don't know the details of what he's done or why people have such a negative reaction towards him. But I do think if you're going to claim to represent the members of the foundation, that their concern should be taken into account. Obviously, it sounds like he's very good at what he's doing. But do we need more people lobbying for politicians or do we need more people helping the rest of the world? I mean, I could say for sure that Sean Zalko hasn't gotten nearly the amount of Bitcoin to the foundation has. And they were able to beat 60,000 people in a year. I'm not 60,000 people, but deliver 60,000 meals to the homeless in a year. I mean, we start seeing results like that from the foundation. Maybe I'll start considering them more. But I know for a fact that I've been there to even cover some of their members when they can invite you to speak at conferences, stuff like that. And it's like they have all of these coins. What are they doing with them? I'd like to see some evidence of where they're going and just a little more transparency because I feel like you kind of get these non-answers when these questions are asked of them. And the whole thing seems really shadowy. And it misses the whole point of Bitcoin being a decentralized system. Why do we need a foundation? Why do we need this organization that claims that they represent a lot of Bitcoiners? Obviously, they don't. So I have a results oriented person. That's what I'm going to need to see. I don't really have a strong opinion. I guess against Bitcoin foundation, I'm just skeptical of what their role should be. And I wouldn't say I have a positive opinion of them either. I just need to see what they're doing. They're supposedly doing education. That's great. What are you doing for education? Are you printing guides that are getting people started on Bitcoin? Are you setting up meetups to engage local communities? Like where is that money going for education? So I need to see the documents as they are my position on the foundation. At the very least, Bitcoiners want a free lunch from their foundation. Exit question, did you know the Bitcoin group has its own website? Yes, it's true. The Bitcoin group on the world wide web. Can you imagine that? The Bitcoin group.com. Subscribe. The Bitcoin group is also part of the world crypto network. The world crypto network is the only place in the world to get daily YouTube shows about Bitcoin. New shows every day at worldcryptoneetwork.com. Subscribe on YouTube. Quite a lot of plugs, huh? They say we do that to pay the bills to keep the lights on. Yes, yes. Moving on. Issue four, choose your own topic. Falcon Global Capital has just registered to become the first official lobbyist to lobby Congress in favor of Bitcoin. While Mastercard has signed up to lobby against. Self-proclaimed Bitcoin hater Peter Schiff is now selling gold for Bitcoins through his company Euro Pacific Crashness Metals. I guess if you can't beat him, join him. And Charlie Shremm is finally free. It's not the right headline. Oh, whatever. Charlie Shremm is finally free. Well, he's not free, but he's free from house arrest. He can leave his home. So he's probably playing Xbox. But anyway, which story most interests you? Chris Ellis. Well, after all that fuss that Peter Schiff put up, but all that time we had those debates, we have one on Let's Talk Bitcoin ran this like long thing, like just a whole series of him not getting it very, very publicly. I just felt like screaming at him like, dude, we all had this when we first learned about it. Okay, just go away and pry it and have these reservations. But he just seemed to just repeatedly not get it. And now it turns out that he's like, oh, I can make money out of this thing. And it's so cheap to implement here, cool. I just kind of think, oh, such a smart guy, I'm really quite disappointed. Unless there's something about this story that I'm not seeing. The beautiful part from the article is that he's claiming to still hate Bitcoin, but his company is now accepting them for gold. So basically he's become a hypocrite. He's doing one thing and saying another. That is quite staggering. And he doesn't think that any of these digital currencies are going to survive long term. Actually, I don't entirely disagree with that one. I mean, most of them probably won't. We should say something about Dogecoin a little bit, shouldn't we? Christoph, tell us about your animated GIF. Oh, yeah. I don't have it pulled up at the moment, but do you have any ideas in the comments? About Dogecoin. Looking for it on Reddit, but I couldn't find it again. And I just like to draw the audience's attention to that wonderful painting in Christoph's background of the Dogecoin. He mislights the moon. He missticates the moon, actually. Yeah, maybe next slide. So the next question is, tell us about Dogecoin prices if you look back a little bit if we consume about a little more. But we're also talking about Peter Schiff, Megan Lawrence. What do you think? Or Christoph, you want to go? Well, I was just going to say there's a lesson to be learned there about all coins. All coins, the vast majority of them, a lot of them are just nothing happens with them right there, if they're not that useful. Some of them will spike up in price, and then they will go back down. And that certainly has happened with Dogecoin in the past. It may happen again. We don't know. Don't bet the farm on the long-term growth of Dogecoin, or Darkcoin, or any of these other coins. Keep in mind that the network effect of Bitcoin is massive, and they're all competing with that massive network effect of Bitcoin. Even Bitcoin itself is not a sure thing. But so I think I would have just to encourage people, if you're going to play the speculator in this market, then you shouldn't feel upset if the coins end up going down in price. I don't even want to say failing, but going down in price, because that's what you signed up for. Megan Lord, which story would you pick? So I want to say I'm very happy to hear that our benevolent overlords have given Charlie Chame a little bit more freedom. I think that's really great news. But I want to comment on the Peter Schiff discussion. That is really, oh yeah, this guy is great. So he obviously sees the value in Bitcoin, but not because he understands it, and he's still very proud of Bitcoin-hater. But something else people might want to consider, the market's really slow right now. I work at Roberts and Roberts, which is a precious metals brokerage. Call me to similar things to what Europe Pacific does. And we've been taking Bitcoin for really long time, now several months. We were one of the first precious metals Steelers to start taking Bitcoin. So what I would recommend, if people are interested in converting their Bitcoin into precious metals, because a lot of people are common argument that a lot of us hear all the time, so what does Bitcoin work? It's not worth anything, it has no intrinsic value. Whatever. For people who think gold has intrinsic value, or silver has this value, they can convert that over. I wouldn't suggest using Schiff, though. Obviously, he's not a team player with this. So when it comes to where I want to spend my Bitcoin, I want someone who's engaged in it, who's very concerned with the direction of Bitcoin, and who has a good understanding of it. So that's where I would choose to spend my Bitcoin. This is about making money. Markets are slow. I would say that's true for a lot of the places, at least here in town, the weasers it with, and I think it's probably on a larger scale, too. I think businesses slow down for precious metals, and this is a way that he thinks can probably invigorate his business, but doesn't really... And I would think that an answer, if you were to come and say, you obviously still hate Bitcoin, why are you even taking it, it would probably be dismissed with a lie. I don't really handle that department of Europe Pacific. It's just kind of whatever, and it is easy. It shows how easy it is to implement all that, but he's not in it because he believes in Bitcoin. I mean, it's such a joke. Peter Schiff was, he embarrassed himself really, really badly on his misunderstanding of Bitcoin. I mean, it was really pitiful. And for him to come back and be like, oh no, I'm going to take Bitcoin now. It's not because he believes in it. Obviously, he's probably just trying to make some quick money, or he views it as maybe a way that he can stay relevant. So he's very, he's very good at picking up on cultural memes and kind of staying relevant. So I think that's really what this is about. And if you are interested in supporting precious metals industries that are in Bitcoin for the right reasons who are really passionate about the future of it, there are a lot of those out there. And I can definitely help you out with that. It roberts and roberts. So just plug for where I work. But yeah, Peter Schiff is desperately trying to stay relevant. And I feel bad for him. Well, and remember, they're most likely converting their Bitcoins immediately into cash. They're not going to be holding Bitcoin long-term. And he's probably just using Bitcoin as a transfer mechanism, which of course Bitcoin works totally fine with, because Bitcoin's an international currency. It's incredibly useful. Try selling little shavings of gold through the mail. Try putting gold into your webcam. Good luck with that. Moving on to questions and answers. Our first question is for Mr. Chris Ellis. Is Chris still thinking about doing a regular show? Or is he burnt out? Mr. Chris, the people want more. I know. I know. I'm doing a Q&A, a panel discussion with counterparty and master coin on the 5th of June in London. So if you're a member of the London Bitcoin Meetup group, you should definitely come along to that. I am working on it. I'm a little bit burnt out, because I kind of really threw myself in last year. And so I have kind of been trying to take easy but I've also been brainstorming and meeting people and coming up with ideas, because I don't just want to do yet another, the same old format as everyone else. So thank you very much for the interest. Watch this space. I'm going to continue to do the Meetup scene. I'm going to continue to do talks. Got another talk coming up, but I can't. It doesn't come to me yet. But I do have more things. So yes, watch this space. Very good. Going back to Christoph. Did you have a comment on the last story? Yeah, I wanted to, you know, with the leadership, of course, like in his mind, this is just him converting people as useless Bitcoins into to precious, precious metals, right? So I don't think it necessarily makes him a hypocrite. His criticisms of Bitcoin have been of, that's a currency, not a payment network. I don't think he understands how the payment network of value gives it value as a currency, but that's neither here nor there. Regarding the Falcon capital people that are lobbying politicians on behalf of Bitcoin, I had a bit of an interaction with them on Twitter before this show. I'm looking forward to talking with them some more about this, but really, I think the efficacy of what they're doing depends on their goals, right? And whether they share my goals with Bitcoin, are they looking for Bitcoin to simply be a PayPal 2.0 platform where regular there is will put in, you know, guard for a else in place and set the standards for what businesses can and cannot do with this new technology. In that case, then maybe their lobbying efforts are perfectly reasonable. Maybe this will ingratiate them with the right people and they'll be in place to make some money off of PayPal 2.0. If they share my goals, which go far, far beyond that, then I don't think that, I think it's kind of silly to think that we're in a position to educate regulators, right? A lot of them seem very dizzy, right? But by and large, people actually making decisions, how the people that are, you know, the majority whips and the minority whips and the people that are really backing the decisions that are befallen on the rest of us, they don't need education. They understand what the score is. The score is that Bitcoin and the Federal Reserve is a zero sum game. There's no win-win situation for those two entities. And so the idea that somehow you're going to educate them into the glory and the mystery of Bitcoin payments and they're going to be scanning in QR codes and be like, oh, yes, that was really fun. Let's get Bitcoin a chance. That's not going to happen. They want Bitcoin to die. They want it to turn into an incremental, tiny improvement over the status quo and maintain their positions of power. And I don't want that to happen. Could I add on to what Christophe was saying about these regulators? Yeah, lobbying with these people, it's just such an incisors system to begin with. But these people have no incentive to understand Bitcoin. They have a very big incentive to throw a lot of us in cages, though, because that allows them to retain power. And it makes them, you know, it makes their position as a regulator have meaning. So I think that's something they consider. I don't want to be involved in any kind of lobbying with the government. And it obviously didn't work out well for Charlie Shrem. He was a person that tried to team up with them. He was the person that pitched this bit licensing idea in New York. And he's the person that's walking around with a damn bracelet around his ankle and can only allow to go out of his house after months of being stuck there. Between the hours of 9 a.m. 9 p.m., he has to submit proof of employment to his jailers. And, you know, he's in a terrible situation as a result of going with the flow. And for completely nonviolent, alleged offenses, I mean, this is what they can do to you. Even if you harm no one, yeah, you basically become a real slave with something on your leg tracking your every move. I mean, we know that they're already spying on us and all that, but I mean, that's a whole different level of imprisonment. I think of it more of watching than spying. They're just watching. Moving on, bonus story. Ripple, price of ripple plummets as co-founder plans 9 billion ripple sell off. I was sent a link to a forum the other day about an angry upset ripple developer who was done with the company and deciding to sell his non billion ripple. What happened to ripple? Could this happen to other crypto currencies? What will happen to ripple in the future? Any ideas or thoughts about this late breaking story? Chris Ellis. Why don't we tie this in with another question that came up in the Q&A from Infinite Radio, where he says, can someone explain ways in which mark it's going to be manipulated on exchanges like cryptocurrency and minpal? And the thing is that when you start a currency or incredibly privileged, because you knew about the idea for everyone else did, or at least most people did. So you can get in early. You know what your plans are. You know your level of energy and your level of competence. And so you know what can be done. And so yeah, you see this all the time. People, we did that show. What was that one, the panda coin, right? And you were reading that out time in that like Homeric tone. And the thing is, what happens is the worst enemy of a project is actually comes from inside of it. It's one of the co-founders actually, who uses that influence on the market as a lever against other people if they don't get their ideas hurt, or if they don't get their projects put forward. And so then they kind of go on the phone and like, right, that's it, I'm done. I'm dumping all my coins and then they're going to go march off to the thing. And then everyone watches it and it crashes. And I've seen this happen on all coins before. And it's really just a sign of weakness. And really, the people need to question our integrity in the first place. A lot of people come to me recently saying, like, oh, what's happened with feather coin? I was like, what do you mean what's happened with feather coin? It's still working. But we never cared about the price. We never messed around with people's expectations. We didn't pay pictures of dogs in like space outfits, doing cartoons, going to the moon. But then at the same time, like giving people dogecoin and saying, it's not about the price. Just spend it on someone else. It's all about giving and tipping, which was something that they just stole from the feather coin for a merely on. They saw that I put this thing up. I said, it was all about the tipping culture. And so there's this kind of cognitive dissonance between our need and our understanding for more generosity in the world. But then not actually being able to live up to that when the rubber hits the road. And it's up to me to actually start giving. And then I end up going on the exchange. The crypts see and all of those things are massively manipulated because it doesn't take very much money to paint pictures on the charts. And you go on there, you've got $500, you can start painting a picture on one of those charts. And then what you do is you set up a bunch of shiller counts, like bogus accounts in the chat room. And the people that go on that chat room are really vulnerable, right? Because they're approaching a decision. They want to turn X amount into more money. And what you do is you say, oh, I've heard, I've got a rumor that something's going to go up in price. And then you put in a little buy, right? And you make the price go up on that coin. And everyone looks at it going, oh, yeah, there's a green candle. And it's like, yeah, I think it's going to go up. And then you put another buy in, right? And the candle goes up a bit more. And they're like, OK, this is going up. And so everyone rushes in because they don't want to miss out. Now, if you get that little feeling, if you're on an exchange, acknowledge the fact that you're in a vulnerable situation. Ignore the fact that there are people there that don't have your best interests at heart. These are not financial advisors, OK? They're there to make money out of you. And if you start to feel like I might miss out on this, then you know that that's not the right thing to do. That's the best signal that your mind and body can give you that that is a bad trade to make. A good trade is one that falls into your lap, right? You see it and you're like, oh my god, this is an absolute sharing. And Dogecoin was that trade, right? Early on when all the people were saying, oh, it's just a marketing scam. I was like, no, no, no, this is interesting, right? It's a fluffy, cuddly brand, which most industries have. And it's a very popular internet meme. And I do, on the whole, I think it's had a net positive effect just because of all the new people that have learned about crypto. But there was something slightly disingenuous. I don't mean to speak in the past tense. I'm sure it will carry on. But there was something slightly disingenuous about on the one had it all about being the tipping. But then you had this kind of moon motif that for me just completely undermined it. Then it was like, OK, but you clearly just want to buy it to sell it for more later on. And all this tipping isn't really genuine. I mean, imagine if someone gave you some food or did something kind for you and then actually turn around and try to claim some price for it. It's like, you'd just be offended. You'd be shocked and mortified if somebody like done you a favor. But then you'd later found out that they really did it for their own self-interest. That does, yeah. So that's the struggle of this whole industry has got to come to terms with. I don't know if I am sold by that. If it really is a genuine conflict of interest there, to me, I mean, Doge goes up, let's say, and you make some money off of it that gives you more wealth to send to other people. And you can say, give away all of your people. You have to pay for those. You don't have to raise that left. Is that what happens then? So what, people only want to make money so they can be even more generous? We do know that in the Bitcoin economy, at least, that people, there's more donations, the higher the prices, there's more purchases, the higher the prices. So there is been a wealth effect established in Bitcoin. I don't know if that's true for Doge necessarily. I haven't done the economic analysis. One of the Doge things was that you can give someone 1,000 Doge instead of giving them like a 0.001 of a bit. And it was this idea of this false inflation where 1,000 Doge sounds like big money. $1,000 is good money. But really 1,000 Doge is like 50 cents. You're not really tipping a lot of money. It's this false tipping of like, oh, I'm a millionaire in Doge. Yeah, you have $400. It's not that great. But go ahead, Chris. I think that's the end of the point that I wanted to make. All right, Megan, anything to say about Dogecoin or Ripple, mid-impulation? I don't have any comments on that. It's something you have to look more into. Very good. And we're running out of questions. So we're going to move on to predictions or a story of the week. Chris, Ellis, are you ready with a prediction or a story of the week? Yeah, I am actually. I said on Twitter the other day, but I'll elaborate more. I think this cryptocurrency proliferation won't stop until every single word in the dictionary has the word coin after it. And I think we will continue to treat these altcoins like a slot machine. But we won't tell each other that. And we won't accept to each other that we're really just stealing from one another because it's a massively zero-sum game. And that whole kind of dark coin thing, that only happened because the dark coin project was confused with a dark wallet project. And so people started putting money into it because of all the hype. But then that kind of carried its own sort of narcissistic kind of rally, right? And carried on its own momentum. And it gets to the point where it's just a mugs game. By the time you've heard about it, it's already too late, right? If you're hearing about it on the chatroom, you've missed your opportunity to buy it. If you're looking at lots and lots of green candles, now is not the time to buy. Of all of these altcoins, and I say this as someone who's been a co-founder of a coin, of a feather coin, the fact is that Bitcoin is the only cryptocurrency to have survived in the long run in terms of price, right? Or all of the other coins have taken massive, massive hits. And whenever Bitcoin goes up, the altcoins go down. I think that's what's about to happen. I think we're about to see another rally, another quite sort of long bull run from Bitcoin. I won't make a price prediction. And when it does, I think what you're going to see, just like you did back in November, you're going to see all the other altcoins go down because it's Bitcoin that most people really, really believe in. Megan, Lord. So I just wanted to say I have a couple of interesting interviews coming up that viewers might be interested in. Tomorrow morning at 9 o'clock, I'll be interviewing Leif and Lamar from Fever. I don't know if you guys are part of the Fever Wallet. It's the Wallet for iPhone. They were able to use some creative ways to get around the ban on Bitcoin Wallets. So I'm going to be talking to them about that. I met these guys in Texas. And they're just really, really interesting to talk to. They have a lot of really cool stuff to say about building community, too, which is another thing we're really going to be focusing on. This idea of what's called potluck capitalism. So definitely check that out. And then next Wednesday, kind of later at night, probably around 9 o'clock at Central Time. I'm going to be talking with Will Penguin, who's usually on the Bitcoin group. We're going to be talking about some projects that he's involved in. So yeah, just check those out. What was the name of that Wallet that works on iOS? How do you spell it? It's Fever, P-H-E-E-V-A. Yeah, I never would have guessed that. Christoph Atlas. I want to finish up with some thoughts about all coins, all coin markets, and what Christ was talking about. I'm not sure that the Dark Coin price was so much to do with mistaking Dark Coin with Dark Wallet. Actually, in many ways, Dark Coin is a little bit ahead of the game in terms of their anonymity technologies in comparison to the Dark Wallet folks. In some respects, they have made more progress than Dark Wallet. And a lot of the price increase in Dark Coin, I've been falling it closely. In my show, the last several months, really. And a lot of the price has closely tracked with particular technical changes in the code base. So the first run up in Dark Coin coincided when they released their Dark Send technology from the test net to the main net. So in other words, when people were actually to be able to use Dark Coin in a more anonymous fashion, then they were previously able to use it. The price went up. And I think that's a positive indicator that tells me that people are actually doing some fundamental analysis of the value of this currency. Now, that being said, Chris makes an excellent, excellent point, which is the market caps of these currencies are tiny compared to many other assets, right there. And in fact, there's not a lot of checking into your identity or anything like that when you're trading these coins. So there's not much mechanism in place to stop people from manipulating the markets. And we also have a group of people out there that are very gullible in terms of, what's the next new hot coin? Oh, what is the trollbox saying now? It blows my mind that people would ever use this as a means of figuring out what to invest their wealth in. But people do. And I think this is going to continue for a while longer. I think it will die off for the more veteran people because eventually they will figure out like, okay, a lot of this is just pump and dump. I am being used to make big coins for other people that are repeating the same damn scheme over and over again. They make some small and parental meaningless change to their cryptocurrencies. And oh, it's a new mining algorithm. So if you switch to mining our algorithm, you'll be on the bottom floor. Like that hasn't been done literally 200 times by now. So a lot of the veterans will drop out of this altcoin market and they'll stick around in a big coin. But the other thing that's going on is we're getting more new people into the Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies base all the time. Part of the success of Bitcoin is to bring new people into the cryptocurrencies base. And a lot of those people will be like, I am, I really wish I had gotten a Bitcoin when it was a few cents. I'd be a millionaire, billionaire now. Oh, there's all these other cryptocurrencies. Well, maybe it can happen there. So it's going to happen for the next several magnitudes of change in the Bitcoin price. So we're gonna have suckers coming into the altcoin space to fuel these pump and dumps for a long while to come. And I would just sort of condition people that look, there are no guarantees in this market. I'm glad that people who have been following me have been able to make some significant coin off of a dark coin. I think that's wonderful. Is it a good time to get into it right now? I don't know. There will be some more strong developments in dark coin over the next month or two. They're continuing to develop their anonymity technology and innovate in that realm. And I think they're doing a really, it's really one main developer, Evan Duffield, who's just, I don't know how he, yes, I'm kind of like time machine technology to get 48 hours out of the day or something like that. He's just one man power. And, but he's doing wonderful things. He's continuing to develop this technology. So if speculation continues to follow the fundamental changes to dark coin, it will continue to go up. If this is all just a speculative bubble, a mirage cast by the people that are manipulating the price, which absolutely can happen because there's a small market, then it won't continue to go up. They will go down from here. And now is the time to sell, which is, which is case, I have no idea. I don't think any of us do, except for those few people that are actively manipulating these markets. So buyer beware. Very good. And my prediction, even though Chris has already pooped it, my prediction is that dark coin will pass light coin in price. No way. I can't predict that. That already happened. There's only one serious coin with a greater value than dark coin. And that coin is Bitcoin. Does dark coins gastronomic capacity know no satiety? We're out of time. Until next time. Bye, bye.