and group the American original for over the last 10 seconds the sharpest Satoshi's the best Bitcoins the hardest cryptocurrency talk this week we'd like to welcome Chris J from feathercoin hello Derek J Freeman from Peace Profigandist and Peace News now Peace y'all and Will Pangman from Bitcoin Milwaki hi everybody issue one Satoshi Nakamoto unmasked newsweek returned to print journalism with a bold cover story claiming that they have found Satoshi Nakamoto the story was later proved false by the associated press and the Los Angeles Times when Dorious Prentice Satoshi Nakamoto told them that he was not Satoshi later developments even involved Satoshi himself coming out of hiding to post a message on an old forum the message said only i am not Dorian Nakamoto newsweek however is sticky with the story Chris J your thoughts on this exciting and developing story oh sorry is that how you meant to start an interview no apparently not dude seriously this is this is i'm really upset i'm really upset what did i want to say i had something i wanted to say the videos of her are just unbelievable i think i know what happened what happened was she really really really wanted this guy to be Satoshi Nakamoto so that she can make a career out of this and i've been saying this for a long time now do not bother even reading these online tablet tabloid doesn't scale it doesn't work on the internet because what happens is people are very very good at finding things that are untrue that's what Wikipedia was based on the way to find the right answer was by being wrong first except on Wikipedia you can actually edit the content and so you can't on things like newsweek so this Leah Goodman woman i don't know she calls herself a journalist does she even use that title she she's been doing some interviews she's been pretty much going around all of these that like CNN a few others is that right and you've been sending me those and she just has this in my opinion she has this guilty looking you know this guilty look on her like she knows she's wrong like I almost feel like she just needs to meet up with empty gauks and to sit down and go okay we've been afflicted we've been afflicted we've been caught out we're both struggling to take responsibility you blame the blockchain protocol can i do that can i can i can i do that so she's clearly caught out here this dude isn't Satoshi i'm pretty convinced of that like I think what's happened is she so badly wanted it to be true she dropped the word bitcoin into enough conversations and then just hope that he would say something incriminating and clearly from Dorian's point of view he's got stuff in his past that he is fearful of being brought up she's come up to him and he thinks that she's talking about something completely unrelated so he then goes on the defensive and says no no i have nothing to do with that company anymore and you've got this kind of weird misalignment of her wanting it to be Satoshi but him thinking it's something completely different and saying something off the cuff that she's then got oh that's it that that bit that he said there where i've got nothing more to do with that company that must be the incriminating evidence and then she's gone away i mean the opening line on its own to that article was just astonishing like she hasn't she hasn't checked the facts before going to the graphics team the license plate with wasn't even blurred out i mean i'd have done that myself wouldn't you i did when i posted the story it took me about five seconds to uh circle the license plate black it out i also then noticed that you could see the street number of the house and so i blacked that out as well yeah yeah it took me five seconds and i did it because that's what i mean it she's just been cavalier she just hasn't taken any real care over this Satoshi Nakamoto stands at the end of his sun baked driveway looking timorous and annoyed that's the opening line like that that sounds like she's going like maybe she wants to publish a deal maybe she's trying to write a book maybe maybe that's the angle she's going with but it's clearly backfiring i don't know how she's going to recover from this because to me i don't know about you guys but it doesn't look like this dude is Satoshi and what with the Satoshi right i mean of course she might argue that that was just Dorian right like going going online and and and posting that up but i mean okay you know guys tell me what you think well i think the the obvious comparison is the emails there's been a couple of graphics going around comparing an email from mr dorian apprentice Satoshi Nakamoto and Satoshi Nakamoto of bitcoin that dorian apprentice email has poor capitalization poor drummer yeah i saw that well thought out it's not a great email the Satoshi Nakamoto the abstract the way he introduces bitcoin he speaks very fluently he uses proper grammar and punctuation and of course the famous two spaces after the period showing that he was taught to type on a manual typewriter not on a keyboard the other email doesn't have any of these characteristics so even on the most basic of cursory readings that stands out as a reason why they shouldn't have published this story they also shouldn't have published his home address his house his car his license plate yeah unbelievable and especially now what you're seeing when that lady goes on the news is it supposed to be the day two round of successful stories i believe that she scheduled these interviews and expected Satoshi to come along and that this was her victory lap this is the celebration and it's the strangest things i've ever seen newsweek is going on with the celebration despite being disproven by the LA times the associated press and presumably Satoshi Nakamoto himself the victory this this is this is what Mark Coppola said he wouldn't he wouldn't admit the truth and he just tried to kick the can down the road put it off put it off as if that was going to prevent the truth from eventually coming out i just think it's just so obvious to everyone in the room right now that they've clearly made a mistake even if it does from some freak you know accident turn out to be that they got the right guy uh it's still not appropriate what she did you know publishing the article that way without consulting him without properly sitting down and thinking ethically about you know what what they should do what they did is they just went straight ahead and wrote sensationalist article and that clearly just shows that she's all she's really just selfish all she's really concerned about from what it looks like from here is her own career i especially didn't like that she said she had a graphics team and she tried to blame them on not blacking out the license right right that's that's like the article like that's like the malleability thing this thing went into print presumably with his plate i haven't seen print edition i tried to get one they didn't have any i don't know if they do yeah you do not you if that's like the transaction malleability thing that's what gocks did they just blamed it on something else that's exactly what the graphics team should have said it was because of a transaction malleability for the shop's proglons for all that to join us yeah newsweek is the new ministry of truth to me i mean they they write it and it is true right you know that it was totally irresponsible of this author to publish this article without truth i mean the newsweek article if you read it it reads like a trashy romantic novella it's uh not based on truth and in the age of cryptography we have objective methods of determining what is or is not authentic and that was not presented and none of that evidence was presented no signs pgp keys no audio evidence was brought forward saying like here i interviewed him he said different things to me now she's going on this circuit doing interview saying well i don't know why he's answering these questions so differently and why he's talking about bitcoin like it's a company like he has no understanding of what it is he calls it a product of some company and says he never worked there where what are you talking about Dorian clearly has no idea what just fell into his lap and this woman is highly irresponsible and dangerous for putting such a target on this man she she got people all around the country and in fact the world to believe that this man was sitting here in his home with four hundred million dollars he could have been abducted he could have been tortured for his keys that don't even exist so if she is a dangerous person she should take full responsibility for being a poor journalist and just move on with her life as she did enough damage just end it now i agree Derek the details in that article were incredibly salacious i remember reading it through for the first time on air yesterday and things like uh he is descended from samurai and his mother was a Buddhist priest these small details of incredible history the police officer who walks to the door instantly knows who Satoshi is and knows that he shouldn't be living in a normal house like this well we don't want to i mean Satoshi obviously has taken great pains to protect his privacy and anonymity so for him to call the police on a reporter with regard to an inquiry or an investigation on bitcoin is highly suspect to me uh he wouldn't want a police report with his full real name and address and uh an investigation on bitcoin with the authorities if you're it any way interested in keeping your anonymity and it does seem the reason that she doesn't produce audio of a sit down interview with Satoshi uh Dorian Prentice Satoshi is that she doesn't have one it seems she has this one meeting with him where the police come and he tells her to leave he says he's not involved anymore and she takes that to mean the entire thing that's i mean what hubris was was lea born yesterday just she think that no one else is looking for Satoshi or has has ever tried to investigate this guy does she think oh well all i had to do was make a couple of phone calls at newsweek and then boom there's the most anonymous guy on the planet and remember their initial reporting method was to look at all the people names that tochi naka moto in lia's uh interviews today she says that she didn't even believe it was a pseudonym and because it wasn't a pseudonym it was okay to publish him that he meant to be public by using his quote unquote real name which is making a lot of assumptions with her article and we all know what that means it does seem that the the day two coverage that she's doing by going on these various media outlets is only making things worse mr. Dorian Prentice Satoshi naka moto does not have four hundred million dollars it's incredibly unsafe for her to be going on the media saying that he is the man when he is denied being the man he's most certainly going to have to relocate i don't know what's going to happen in the future it's very unfortunate what's happened will penguin your thoughts uh does while watching these videos of her doing her press tour does anyone else out there have no other people have had this similar feeling of when you watch something on television or a movie or you witness something in person and it's not happening to you you're just watching it but you're embarrassed on behalf of them like you have this kind of yucky embarrassment inside of you for like for their sake or something and it almost compels you to change the channel or look away or um help that person if they're in front of you in real life that's what i felt watching her on these videos it's pretty just uncomfortable it's like um you know some people get that same feeling when they uh like you know oh you know little tactile things skeave you out like scratching ice for some people or i had a basketball coach you when we would kick dirt on the sideline of our outdoor basketball court he would get all skeaved out he couldn't handle it that's how i felt watching her on these on these interviews it's just really awful the other thing is you know what a responsible journalist would have done if they really thought they might have uncovered this little treasure trove of a story is carefully contact this person gain their trust encourage them that you would write a you know a conscientious story on it cautiously relocate them considering the fact that there's a four hundred million dollar bounty you're gonna place on their head whether that's the right person or the wrong person as soon as you publish and help them you know get into like a witness protectiony sort of situation for their own safety a cautious reporter would have pulled these kinds of resources and been careful in that kind of a way you know maybe not those specific things but something to that effect um this is an incredibly species uh story in the first place like you guys were mentioning the fact that someone who went to great pains to preserve their anonymity that more than likely is more than one person um or at least you know certainly could be potentially more than one person as the as the creator of bitcoin uh would use their real name or even part of their real name to you know while commuting cating through pgp keys and you know just all of the anonymity that um they preserved over the years of building the early stages of bitcoin it's it you know it's preposterous on its face that this man could potentially be the real Satoshi not to mention the fact that you know there was one other like ridiculous claim that i believe was made in the story that uh you didn't mention earlier Tom when you were giving your little rundown and that is that this was a man who worked on government black projects or classified uh government defense contractors you know cryptography and mathematics projects you know so that was another one of these outlandish sort of um you know species claims that she made that uh you know was her evidence that she's claiming in these interviews is not circumstantial she's defending the quote-unquote evidence she's giving as not circumstantial evidence and certainly that's the big criticism that the bitcoin community had for this article is there's no there's no hard proof you know when when even when people do a reddit a ma the redditors or the reddit community asks for proof that's usually in the form of like a tweet or something like that but none of this was used on her behalf to prove her her claim um and then again we've talked about how irresponsible this is to just come out with this stuff let a let alone put his house and car license plate um all these things on television but the fact that this essentially represents a four hundred million dollar bounty on a man's head whether she's right or wrong and she appears to have been oblivious or so careless uh to that fact so um i i don't wish i don't wish ill on her um i i just wish that she uh gets you know one thing one of the things that gives me so much faith in the in the in bitcoin as a whole and the community and and as people come to this community and exponential growth that we're seeing what i'm seeing is kind of like this unplugging from uh from the the lies or the misinformation the misconceptions that the rest of the world is voicing on the population and you know i think that's what i'm really liking to see in the comments section of newsweek articles are there non-pology that they published today too uh the comments section was replete with um you know intelligent remarks about uh you know some the little aggressive but certainly you know nobody would it's not like the comment section you'll see on you know a fox uh news article or an MSNBC article or or you know other things where it's just you know non-sequitors and and just just falsehoods and fallacies galore um so i'm encouraged by seeing those things and i hope that continues and that those are the consequences that she has that that's the outcome um is that the legitimate consequences that are deserved here are are what befall this situation she does seem incredibly naive and oblivious her comments today on the various news outlets show her saying that there's no reason that an inventor has anything to fear from inventing something which is an incredibly historically ignorant position if you invent something that threatens the status quo it could come back to you there's a reason that Satoshi Nakamoto is anonymous and private he's yeah for a journalist she has no concept or knowledge of history it's unbelievable that she would reach the position as a financial editor at newsweek and not have any of this history did you hear that comment she made about how she covers people that've got like net worth of you know billions that would they work at all these big banks and a part i mean it's a billionaire they're safe therefore he's safe yeah it's really disappointing very absurd what's going on and this this day two coverage will most certainly be used in the lawsuit if mr. Dorian printers decides to sue newsweek for what they've done to him if you look at the situation he pretty much is going to have to move he probably needs a new car at the very least a new license plate they're gonna settle out there they're gonna settle out there surely the lawsuit yeah they'll they'll likely newsweek will settle or so what's magazine so what we should do you know i'm sure folks who are probably watching tonight were maybe witnessed to or even a part of the the Twitter bomb yesterday the we are Satoshi hashtag or the iam Satoshi hashtag i think we all have a legitimate claim to that moniker and we should start a class action suit for defamation or whatever what it would be you know if there's a settlement let's go class action with it and not make it end i mean let's not let them out of the woods on this you know this is what i'm saying is a lot of these news agencies are these bureaucracies or any of these establishment organizations can sweep their lies and misgivings and miscalculations under the rug very easily i mean we see this in politics all the time uh they'll you know one controversy replaces an old controversy and the old controversy just evaporates uh you know what i guess my comment earlier about the Bitcoin community and what what what it does to the mindset of people and shedding all of this uh this the you know unlearning all of this stuff that um has been foisted on us is you know we can come out and um and and expose it for what it is and not allow this stuff to be swept under the rug Derek you have thought? Well i'm less interested in retribution and punishing newsweek and more interested in helping and protecting poor dory and i'm encouraged by andreus's fundraiser which i'm sure all the listeners are familiar with uh that i don't know the what the website or where you can find it uh i think you've got one there you go thanks Thomas but on a r slash bitcoin it should be near the top it has uh one thousand one hundred and thirty two up votes right on and it's been encouraging i was watching the dotations come in by the second uh earlier today and it's uh it's it's up there quite a bit i guess you're you're showing the totals now a float somewhere around twenty seven bitcoin while i was looking earlier today i watched a crossover from eleven to twelve and uh i thought that was inspiring now it's more than doubled so it's clear that people in the bitcoin community are interested in helping out those in need and uh look at what they've done so far i i don't think we need to worry about punishing newsweek let's just move on and uh just keep building the free future i'm not in favor of punishing them just to clarify but i want to hold them to account and i think the bitcoin community as a whole does too and one thing we can do with the class action lawsuit because i know that was a kind of a job i was that was tongue in cheek but what we can do to hold them to account is point out the what you just mentioned Derek that the money that's been raised on um you know with Andreas's fundraiser for Dorian Nakamoto that's a story that's a story get that in some press that deserves some press and that likely won't see the light of day in the mainstream news um maybe we can encourage mat miller from bloomberg to cover something like that and piggyback off of that but that's a way to hold them to account look at what the big picture is with the mainstream media is talking about they're dead anyway it's it's all about the independent media and we are reporting it yeah let's hasten let's hasten the demise i think this is one way to do it by taking a grassroots approach to to this kind of um this kind of news and this kind of um um alternative journal alternative media yeah that's the last thing i'll say on it is this was a real opportunity to let independent media shine and let the old world dinosaurs dig their own grave because newsweek never should have gone back into print especially with a cover story like this an independent media tore the manure and you uh look at this a family show all happened live on twitter i was there is an incredible story with the la times the a p twitter and the internet working together uh as for punishment for the newsweek writer it's not for me to say or us to say but the internet works this way if you embarrass someone on the internet it comes back to you the things that she did exposing his license plate exposing his home exposing his car i imagine will be done to her i uh don't know what's going to happen i hope that she'll be okay but uh doory and printis satoshi nakamoto his life has been forever changed and i wouldn't be surprised if her life is forever changed yeah i just want to make one thing clear you know personally philosophically i reject punishment as a model for um restoration or retribution uh i prefer restorative justice to retributive justice and i just want that to be clear we are watching the fundraiser right now this is a fundraiser set up by andres and tenopolis if you're curious about what will be done with the funds and drs has made it very clear that he will accept donations until the end of march at the end of march donations will be converted into usd and delivered to doory and nakamoto if the donation is rejected by doory the funds will go to a charity of his choice if he doesn't want to choose a charity the funds will be donated to the electronic frontier foundation any funds sent after the deadline will be donated to doory and at a later date or a charity of his choice or the eff and bow andres has all of the details the donation address is one doory in four rocks it's very identifiable and here's the blockchain.info page for the donation address you can use the QR code on your screen right now to donate to doory and printis satoshi nakamoto who is not satoshi nakamoto while we've been watching it the donations have just climbed above one thousand one hundred donations that means more than a thousand individuals have donated to this campaign and they have raised more than seventeen thousand dollars which is uh twenty six point nine nine bitcoin just about ready to go over twenty seven i'd be curious to see what the average donation is um to see how much people are throwing in it looks like the average donation floats somewhere around ten or twenty bucks what would you say last time i checked the average it was at about fifteen dollars yeah exit question will satoshi ever be unmasked will we ever find out if he has the keys to the one point six five million bitcoin christ jay uh not unless he actually wants to i think what might happen is that the press just keep going off on the succession and he ends up being forced to declare who he is just so that they stop harassing innocent people that's the that's the only thing it's remarkable in this day and age how you can stay anonymous for that long just given all the technology improvements we have with style or symmetry the ability to be able to identify somebody by their style of writing um it it's pretty astonishing um so i have absolute you know idea i really don't think it's that important yes i would be intrigued to find out who it is but i don't think it's as important as we're making out to be Derek jay uh yes i expect to one day know the true identity of satoshi nakamoto i hope it's some sort of deathbed confession uh where it's his time of choosing and uh that he has a good record of his diary so that he can say well i back in march of 2014 when i was watching the bitcoin group it was hilarious to see them talk about me uh you know stuff like that i want to see well what what is he doing these days um you know i can't know that now but maybe i can know that later on in the future will hangman i have it on good authority that we will never know who satoshi nakamoto is and also that the keys were destroyed so um that's something that uh you know is interesting to think about i think issue two two bit idiot declares war on the bitcoin foundation this might not sound like much but two bit idiot is the same ryan galt writer from coin desk who broke the leaked mount gox presentation that first broke the news of how many bitcoins they were missing and what they plan to do about it he has done it again this time he's asking chairman peter vissetti's and executive director john matonis of the bitcoin foundation to resign in 72 hours or he will release information showing that they had insider access to mount gox and should have warned people about the exchange Derek j your thoughts will the bitcoin foundation resign should they resign is two bit idiot right is the current foundation in some way responsible for people's losses on mount gox well if there are and two bit idiot has information about it he should come forward with that if he feels it's his responsibility i don't think he should be held as a threat over people's heads that they abdicate some invisible throne at the bitcoin foundation what good is the bitcoin foundation anyway why not create your own what do they have some cool building that you want to inhabit i mean forget about it two bit idiot has already done his own hard work of making a name for himself he's done a great job and people follow and care about what he says who cares what kind of title he's got at the bitcoin foundation who cares what these people do up in in that ivory tower i i think it's a non-issue if he wants to create his own bitcoin foundation i'd encourage that will payment uh so just a kind of parallel you know i the stupidity it had my ear after the mount gox story um turned out you know his his information turned out to be true and the parallel i want to draw is with uh lea goodman's reporting of the satoshi story the mount gox article or blog post that uh ryan wrote was careful and led off with a clear statement that what he had was unconfirmed um and he had some sources and he had multiple sources and he really didn't uh you know assert blanket statements of anything he suggested some things and he hoped that maybe the truth would bear out and and things like that now a lot of people um were disturbed by that mount gox story and and her um you know lost some sleep over it but um but that was some careful reporting if you will on his part the i get the opposite feeling from him with this story uh there's incredible hubris in his writing of this story um very aggressive and violent writing almost you know i mean it's figurative language he uses but certainly um sounds like he's too big for his britches now since the mount gox thing turned out to be more true more or less um so yes he has my ear on this um to Derek's point about the foundation you know i've you know as someone who's participated on committees for the bitcoin foundation and you know um i'm not a lifetime member of the foundation i'm a one year member um debating renewing my membership i think i'd like to you know i'd like to see some things go a little differently namely i'd like to see more uh less of the ivory tower sort of thing going on i mean uh that's certainly uh i wouldn't say that's my feeling about the the board but it's certainly the the feeling i get from a lot of the bitcoin community and you know when i've tried to work on certain projects on these committees and open the door to our milwaki meetup to you know with with uh similar interests on some of these projects to collaborate or participate on these things that's the feedback i get is that you know members that are milwaki meetup and other people in the community feel like it's it's an ivory tower sort of um you know some isolation going on there uh you know and us cleaves are are down here spinning our wheels are running the hamster wheel or whatever um it doesn't need to be that way and i really you know i really do think the foundation has performed some valuable functions some really valuable functions and there are good people who are on the board who i respect and appreciate their work charlie shrem is one of them elizabeth floshay is one of them and there are there are some others um there have been some about there's a lot of valuable work they've done you know they've they've come to the aid of a lot of uh bitcoin businesses and they've performed a function of a kind of buffer between regulators bureaucracies and some of these businesses uh some of these fledgling and and and relatively large bitcoin startups and uh that have vc money behind them and some of the smaller ones as well and so i do appreciate that but their focus has been so much in that function and almost none in the community support or um advocacy or community outreach programs there's a lot of things that um i've suggested a number of times on on the committees that i'd like to see pulled into the fold of the foundation by the board and dorsed by the board are supported uh any number of ways that might be palatable for them to support some of the great work i mentioned this in in past shows you know christof's book um bitcoin bigfoot and their air drop of um pro you know bitcoin educational paraphernalia and start guides and things like that and there are other plans that that group has and there's a number of other um really great community activism um they could really do wonders and i've i've proposed this to them of pulling in meetup organizers around the country and the world and giving them more support and and helping them have a more organized approach for their outreach they're doing a great job i talked to meetup organizers all the time every week and there's tons of great work going on there um they could i do think you can be pulled in and organized not centrally but certainly encouraged or you know um there's certainly um endowment that could support projects like that um one of my earliest feelings about the bitcoin foundation as i was observing the support that they were giving these big big businesses and buffering against the the state if you will uh was that there was no user facing uh functions that they were performing and there needed to be a kind of bored body of some kind of you know non-governmental organization of some kind to support the user adoption that was exploding during 2013 so i'm still interested in seeing something like that and putting something like that together suggesting it um and working on it and that's what i'd like to see so the story is salacious and um you know even more aggressive perhaps than Leah Goodman's uh claims in her story we'll see by monday if he's got teeth or if he's you know all bark Chris Jay anyone can be a leader and the thing is that if you've got a platform like they have and you and you've got the name as well the bitcoin foundation sounds very official you've got the official association with the lead developer you've got a responsibility and a duty of care you could be helping people on the ground like you could be getting this out to developing countries the people in the world as Andreas puts it so well the the six billion unbanked and i don't see that happening right now if i do decide to to run for it i'd be running as a protest candidate you'd be electing me to disband the thing or to at least cutay lip to take it right back really all the bitcoin foundation needs to do is pay for the developers that the reason that that's important is because if the developer works for free like like the linux foundation if the developer works for free it's not really free he's taking it he's billing someone for that time he's taking out on his bar so you're you're pushing you're pushing the costs off the balance sheet and you're creating what are called negative externalities which is actually what the banks do on a mass scale they lock in profits and they externalize risks and obviously that's not healthy we don't want to see that if somebody is working on the development full-time and and it's it's becoming deletious to their lifestyles and they're having to compensate in other areas then it's absolutely appropriate that foundation should exist to take care of funding that person and making sure that the the project itself that the mission itself is abided by and is true but not when you start getting too much money involved you're going to get corruption and you're going to get people that want the power and people that want power should never be allowed into power in the first place and this is what I've noticed even Tom when you started I perhaps shouldn't say this but I'm going to anyway you when you started posting up those Twitter pictures I had a couple of people come up to me at the London bitcoin meetup start sort of you know getting friendly with me and you know one of them own the company and he wanted to put up like if you get elected could you do this one hang on a minute the corruption's already started there's been like four tweets and you're already like co-seeing up to me for contracts seriously I can't imagine what I would be like I shouldn't have said it because obviously I don't want to upset anyone but like I have no I don't want power okay I don't want it like if I get it if if if I do pull it off as a coup if I decide to even do it at all I will just be to as a protest candidate okay I will just be doing it to make a point and probably just set up my own one you know and and you should all do that right like you should all like like we're going to talk about the whole thing in a minute so maybe I should put that off until we do but anyone can be a leader you don't have to be a part of an official organization also the other thing is look at what happens when I mean Charlie Schrammer mean it's a tragic case I listen to his interview and let's talk Bitcoin the guy just looks like he's been totally had you know he's volunteered some information to the authorities thinking he's doing the right thing he's acting in a nice way and then they've used that information against him later on on chumped up charges god I was when I heard him say that I was like oh man that's awful but the problem is that that's going to tarnish Bitcoin even though it's not his fault and certainly with with Mark Carpellers is that that then ends up making this all look bad because they've got that logo on it and it just looks to me as though these people in this organization aren't taking due care and responsibility I don't know about this two bit guy it just looks like he's on a bit of a power trip to me I will listen to him because he clearly looks like he's a smart guy I'm not liking his posturing ultimatums I'm not a good a good thing it's usually a sign of weakness when someone does that so anyway look I don't know I let's just move on from it I think yep I was of the impression and I this was an early impression and I feel like it's been reiterated for me that the one of the main purposes if not the main purpose is Chris you were mentioning earlier is that the Bitcoin foundation is to it exists to protect Bitcoin and thereby pay the core development team and you know recently I think in the last two months or so there's been some comments coming out of core developers saying they're not sufficiently supported I think those comments were more directed at the core dev teams of the larger Bitcoin businesses not contributing enough to the code to make it more robust and this is around the transaction malleability time and things like that but it and I certainly I mean that is the most noble function they could ever perform and if they're if the core devs are not supported or claiming they're not being supported enough then we've got something wrong going on yeah I agree and when you guys say that all the foundation should do is pay the core devs I think to myself this is a job for a multi-signature wallet mm-hmm well if everyone could agree these people are doing the work and they should be percentage and we could all sign it and then we have an agreement what do we need the foundation for well I think it's a case of I think it's a case of you know again these old habits die hard and when you have the hands on the levers of power you know it could have been some trumped up organization that just you know got a large endowment and became you know powerful in some new fledgling industry and I'm not saying you know that that's the Bitcoin foundation but some people look at it that way perhaps you know that's their problems and it doesn't seem like there's enough communication you know I really like John Matonis is writing when he posts things in Forbes and contributes to other you know other publications I think he's an incredibly bright guy I don't know much about futeur of a centrist except the coin lab stuff but you know I don't know what they're doing I don't think any of us really do and if multi-signature wallets are not something they're into or interested in doing it must be because these old habits die hard and they are yeah maybe that's a good idea but I'd still rather be holding purse strings I like that it's tough to tell we'll have to wait and see until the article comes out exit question will they resign on Monday follow up will they resign after he publishes Derek Jay still muted thank you if they've done something criminal I'm sure they'll step down but otherwise it's irrelevant it seems like two-bit idiot would do well to form his own foundation to to prostitize on behalf of Bitcoin and accomplish whatever he hopes to accomplish without the foundation it doesn't seem to be some prerequisite that he be a part of this foundation in order to accomplish anything so it's irrelevant to me will pegman I don't want to answer the first two questions but I I want to point out that you know like Derek said if there was some illegal activities going on perhaps they will resign I don't think it matters you know the the article the way he writes it is like threatening that this could bring down or sell the name of Bitcoin you know I'm completely unconvinced of any of those kinds of arguments whenever they're made by a Bitcoin quote-unquote insider or a total outsider you know like in the mainstream media that we've seen ongoing all the time incessantly Bitcoin is resilient and it's resistant to all of these kinds of things and if anybody thought that we'd be on a constant upward trajectory the whole time then that's totally foolish something as disruptive as this as massively disruptive as this more disruptive than perhaps anything humankind has ever seen isn't going to be a smooth ride on the way up it's going to be very very bumpy and if we have another you know the the last five weeks of press and stories about Bitcoin has been a pummeling and here we are we're still around 650 or 625 per you know per Bitcoin I don't see that really dramatically changing anytime soon and we'll have some bumps and hiccups and stuff but we're going to ride it all the way to the moon however long it takes to get there and and you know I'm not worried about Bitcoin's future as it pertains to any sort of news that can come out about it you know short of some catastrophic internal failure like you know certainly is a massive outlier as you know sometimes Andreas will indicate uh yeah are they in some way responsible for the losses of Mt. Gox I don't know about that but I am interested to know of the claim that Ryan makes in the article that they had special privileges and could withdraw funds when other customers couldn't then that's something I think we um you know that's that's that's uh serious matter Chris Jay I have no idea um I think that he will probably publish something just because he did last time so I trust to bet that that he will follow through I just don't like his style at the moment but I have no idea what's going to happen issue three whole council that exploring Bitcoin Kingston upon whole usually referred to as whole is a city and unitary authority unitary authority area in the ceremonial county of east writing of Yorkshire England the Bitcoin group's own Chris Jay went there recently to give a talk about how cryptocurrency can help bring justice to poverty Chris Jay how did it go were they open to Bitcoin? Open to it you're kidding me they've already spent a sizeable chunk of money on mining equipment actually not for Bitcoin but for for feather coin and and like coin I believe and so they I don't want to say how much because I might be getting somebody into trouble but when uh David the guy who's doing it told me how much they'd spent I was like oh really um but I was assured this wasn't taxpayer's money this was a grant that they were given and they were told to use out their discretion so I believe they have new formal arrangement the the people that we were lately asing with had come down to our meetup at Oxford a couple of weeks ago this is all thanks by the way to David Gilson I want to give a shout out he's at David Gilson on Twitter he's a very good journalist he works for coin desk he did the story on feather coins first meetup in Oxford back in the summer did a really good write-up and then it's been very good to us ever since it's been recommending us to people so they came down all the way from whole which by the way cost about £100 or if not more on a return ticket and spent a lot of the time with us just talking that actually did a live stream interview um talking about their reasoning behind it and what they want to do is they want to be able to give create a kind of pegged currency like a local whole coin to a string of cryptos to try and stabilize the volatility a little bit so you're not just putting all of your coins into one basket and then give it out to people on benefits right give it out on to people on social social security benefits um and I think the thinking is like what's to lose right these people aren't expecting this anyway they're getting the money for free it's a great learning exercise to see how this can work they demoed an SMS um I don't know if it was an SMS wallet but it was an SMS communication platform uh where the council could talk to people that perhaps had gone into debt uh if they needed help they could stay in touch with them um communication is is pretty important actually there were a few also volunteer organisations there was also somebody for job centre plus and there was also an organisation called quidzin which is a community project designed to help people that uh how are going into a rear so aren't paying now rent I actually told them they should go to the banks and help them out because apparently they've got some debt problems with their own so so much before they need to worry about um so I did a presentation to them on the virtues of the blockchain and I've done this presentation maybe nine or ten times now it's getting better each time I do it and what's different about the presentation that I give um what what while I've tried to develop with this anyway I don't know if it's any good or not um is I just make it about the network mostly I try not to talk about it as money and I just talk about it as the self uh stabilizing global dialogue that that dialogue with the memory and when you talk about it in those terms and you take away the money and you take away the economics and making you know really help people to feel like they're they're getting in on something like you're about to learn something that most people should know they just don't take the time on it that kind of I find it really helps so I've got this slide deck that I'm using it's public I tweeted it out I think I can tweet out again for people it's open source anyone can take it um I find it really works so I did it I went through it in about 15 minutes and the first thing I got was pushback right so not not from uh David and the team from Hull but but some of their colleagues in the audience who were only hearing this for the first time about getting you know crypto into members of the public and Hull and I got a lot of pushback and a lot of people kind of saying oh this is too complicated people are stupid they won't understand it I'm paraphrasing but actually what we found was that over time we persevered I made sure that they understood that there was as much that we could learn from them as they could learn from us like that's a really important message it's absolutely true Bitcoin needs to start humbling down and learning as a community we need to start thinking about what we can learn from local communities it's not about going to a town and saying look guys you're going to love it it's got 21 million fixed issuance deflationary model you know the hell with your canesian crap no you can't do that because people have certain um cultural heritage sensitive practices in their background they they want what they can trust now what's good news not good news but um what's beneficial to us in this community is that the banks are trust even less um so when when you talk about when I talked about the banks when I it's well I I use the analogy I said right everyone's going to lend me some money okay then I'm going to go to the casino and we're going to cut you a deal if I win you get 3% of my profits if I lose you bail me out and of course everyone laughs because that's exactly what happened in 2008 and so they know it's true no one's disputing the premise no no one's saying that that we're not trying to solve the right problem and what happened was as you kind of break down these barriers and you make it safer people to get things wrong and you let them ask the naive questions without them feeling embarrassed about it they start to come up with their own ideas and they start to go so one question that might come up a lot for other people watching this video if you're going to go out to your local community and try the same thing is well why can't we just make our own whole coin well why do we have to use someone else's and stuff like that and I said well look if you use an existing network first of all they've already got the hash rate I'm not I wasn't selling further coin by the way I was saying I was speaking abstractly of all coins and I said well you've already got a global network of developers that have already built the software for free you wouldn't have to commission new developers to write it you'd have a constant 24 hour resource at your disposal you'd have a GitHub with everything that you needed documentation and all just download it and fork it if you want to re-skin it you can re-skin it if you want it to be more vanity then you can do that but there's really no need for you to reinvent the wheel and it makes no difference to the user either like the user doesn't care whether it's the Brixton pound or the whole like we have a currency in the UK called the Brixton pound which is not a blockchain based currency it's a private ledger it's a centralized ledger quite innovative but it's just designed to keep the the currency local is protectionist it's designed to keep the money within the small town of Brixton so we said look it doesn't make a difference whether we're using it on a blockchain as far as the users concerned it's all the same thing it's just that and I showed them I actually have a graphic of the protocol up on the screen I help I find that helps as well as a visual aid and I said look that's JP Morgan's business model right there reduced into about 10 lines of code you've basically automated away a building full of bankers that's why you need to use this software it completely does away with all the all the expensive glass buildings with the air conditioning and the penthouse apartments you don't need all of those overheads and so at the end you know we actually have people coming up to us going okay how how can we get involved in this you know how can we how can we start this they were coming up with ideas because then once we'd kind of got over that hurdle and we sort of made it safer them to take this risk because that word risk was used a lot we we ended up at the conclusion of like well not taking a risk is a risk so what have we got to lose at this point because I think that Hollis you know is not in a good shape at the moment in fact anywhere outside of London is not in good shape at the moment in the UK um they actually started to think about managing upwards they started to think about how they could like just get this array yeah I could talk can you talk to Tony and artist talk to Mike and you you can sort something out that's what I really liked about the meetup was after what Bitcoin can really spark your imagination it really does set people alike when they start to realize what they can do with this so I was really proud I was really happy um and they've asked me to to come up again like I'd happily do that um so yeah let's let's scale this let's keep doing this because now the UK now treats um so here I am being like anti-government everything so now I'm about to say something positive about our government so this is a actually a local authority is a government elected authority in the UK having now declared that Bitcoin is like sterling is like pounds um we now they're treated in the same way for tax for for VAT purposes we've now got a local government um actually endorsing cryptocurrency going further actually buying mining equipment and mining with that equipment with the view to dispensing it to their local population that's pretty that's pretty powerful stuff now that sounds really exciting and it could be that that grant that turns into mining equipment could turn into more money that they that's it that's it and maybe have an everlasting grant so it's got a magical thing yeah uh just to open it up to the rest of the panel uh Derek J what effect can cryptocurrency have on on poverty is the whole government on the right track wow well two very different questions first of all I want to sincerely applaud the work of Chris Jay going and doing the difficult work of being a role model and putting yourself out there to tell people about this uh currency who are really going to benefit from it uh I myself don't think I could go and talk with a bunch of government people not voluntarily and so I applaud you for doing that as well uh is what what is Bitcoin's impact on poverty well we can look to Africa uh Chris mentioned you know one of the things he'd like to see the Bitcoin foundation do is direct more of its energy at third world countries places that are in development and show them how Bitcoin can uh make their lives easier and and keep their currency sound um that's just two things most countries run if not all countries run on fiat and uh that really hurts the poor because the people who get to spend the money first are the the wealthiest and most politically connected and then the little people at the bottom are who get to use the money last um it has this multiplier effect uh inflation as its own effect and um going through econ 101 in five seconds there it results with the poor people having less money less purchasing power and with Bitcoin since it's uh not based on fiat the people uh all have the same purchasing power and uh I think that's a positive thing uh right off the bat that most people don't see initially because inflation is this hidden tax um so I think that's just to name a couple of things uh the third world uh peer-to-peer spending uh among communities whether they're poor or not it doesn't matter they can all spend this currency and uh the fact that they don't get hit by this inflation tax the way they do with fiat currencies that's all gonna help the poor in pretty significant ways finally I would mention that the poor are often the innovators in the entrepreneurs who work to become you know the the uber rich right because they're willing to take all these risks they've got nothing to lose and uh they can out bid their competition or under bid their competition rather well with Bitcoin we're gonna see that even become more and more possible as the poor don't need a bank account in order to accept funds from anywhere in the world but that's the first time we've ever been able to say that and I think it's gonna have a huge impact on the type of businesses we see in the next 10 years absolutely will penguin your thoughts on the whole council yeah I want to echo Derek and applaud Chris for his um you know just the victory I mean that's that's what it is I want to underline what exactly you know my what I internalized from what Chris described about uh his moment in front of the you know the whole city government um at the end of the day people in positions of power holding office in government they're just people and what Chris was able to do was articulate to these people how they can have a noticeable effect on the community that they're you know administering if you will you know the it's a depressed area as Chris is mentioning and you know all these all these towns in the UK outside of London are suffering in this way and I know lots of cities in America can we can point to similarly you know Oakland, California, Detroit, parts of Cleveland even parts of Milwaukee around here and there's many others many others and and doing this for their community I mean that when nobody likes to drive through their community or you know live and work near places like this and see the the suffering that's going on and so even if they're in you know even if they stand to benefit from the system or the status quo remaining um there's um moral incontinuity there uh in in those people at some point um and again these aren't people on the top of the pyramid so to speak so maybe being a little closer to closer to the uh to the issues makes their hearts even a little more soft than say those who are um in the ivory towers in the city of London and New York City and so on what I'm just amazed at the receptiveness and and the conversion that Chris was able to create in these people and that they were so quick to act with a huge gesture it sounds like um you know to invest in mining equipment that as you said Thomas can perpetuate this grant practically indefinitely if they maintained it um I mean it's it leaves me short of breath it's so exciting you know it's um it's it's it's why this invention came to be it's what it's meant to do this is what Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies and the blockchain and decentralized distributed um networks were made to do they were made to uh give people a way out of of their circumstances that are otherwise um handed down to them and you know depressing them I mean that depression is a pressure from above you know it's in many cases not really even self-inflicted because it's um it's from a larger cause you know um a cause of greater power or whatever imposing itself on on these areas and bleeding them dry of their wealth and bleeding them dry of their energy and um it's just it's just incredible I want to see this idea go viral I want more people to get their hands get in touch with Chris get their hands on this presentation and find a way to deliver it to their communities and and maybe that's something we can do together uh you know yeah absolutely no I'd like to work on that with you and I think anyone out there listening um please contact us I think that's could be an awesome project this is the kind of thing the Bitcoin foundation should be doing yes we should do it too I mean we just we don't need a foundation to do this right we don't need a foundation to do is but in their right minds that would be the thing right so um so let's take the reins and and there's no reason we have to wait for any decrees you know what does fiat mean it means by decree handed down by decree um as Derek pointed out Bitcoin is not backed by fiat or based in fiat so you know it's the who it's the who of the fiat though it's still fiat but it's everyone deciding in unison and the thing to remember here is that the role of a leader is to give the people beneath them everything they need to do their job right leaders make leaders they don't just rule people from behind and let them go off and take all the risks and then just sit back and luxuriate um the code is the the new law right code is justice and that's what the poor need they need justice not gonna throw money at this problem hoping it's gonna weigh gonna go away money is just a multiplier right you throw money at a problem you're just gonna get more of whatever you started with actually throwing technology at a problem without any sense of community or caring isn't gonna solve a problem either i think hopefully what i'm hitting on with this speech what i've tried to refine over time is a way of talking about Bitcoin um and what i've tried to do i hope i've been successful is getting to its essence and what it is that it really is which is this self-stabilizing and when and i keep playing with it i keep playing with i'm still not quite getting it with the mining i'm noticing i'm getting a little bit of pushback on that um but i'm slowly slowly perfecting i reckon i need another two presentations before it's kind of just right we just need to stop talking about the money like blanket just not i mean obviously talk that it's an issue but don't don't even spend the first 10 minutes mentioning the money just talk about the network the fact that how resilient is the fact that you can use it on your own computer you could pick this up today i could show you how to do it that's the kind of thing that people need to be hearing yeah i completely agree it's suit it's um this should uplift anyone out there who's had their doubts and felt feeling downtrodden about anything and you know these these kinds of things serve as constant motivation for me and um you know hopefully the same for for viewers out there as well this is a this is a project worth doing and the message is you know how how bountiful open systems are and how restrictive and self-defeating closed systems are except for those who who can manipulate the closed systems uh rules or whatever so um there's so many of these you know uh we could get into philosophical discussion about this but uh so much of how history is written is is a closed system so much of how we've been dictated uh physics how physics works is closed um and not not realized as an open system you know uh this is the case throughout history you know physics on earth is different than physics at the micro cosmic level or even in the um you know the cosmic level the you know the universal level so and that's how it was taught to to constrain people's minds and and so that's maybe why it's a good reason to avoid or set aside the money issue and focus on the fact that open source open systems and distributing distributing them you'll start answering that Simon Synex got a great quote he says people by why you do it not what you do and so you start with the why and if you just talk about the money straight away then what you're doing is you're appealing to people's sense of greed and you're appealing to you're appealing to a sense of having not a sense of being right what your what Bitcoin stands for is a way of being a way of behaving a way of conducting yourself it shouldn't just be at the level of the code it should be in the way you conduct yourself honestly should pay more than fraud all of the time not just in the core protocol but in the way you conduct yourself day today with people around you and it should incentivize you to behave honestly if you've got the opportunity to put your funds in a multi-sick wallet and you can proof of reserve all of your funds that should be a powerful is in fact that very idea came up at the very end in a brainstorm where one of the people there did say let's set up a whole bank and we can prove that we've got all the funds there we use instantly instantly disintermediated bark leaves you've been disintermediated in intermediate HSPC because you're already doing something they're not these people these companies have 40 30 40 to one lending ratios that means that a very small percent of their loans have to go bad and you've got systemic failure that's your money that's not them that's going to pay for it they've already got their salaries and their bonuses that's locked in they locked in that profit you didn't it's not money needs constant attention it needs constantly checking to check that it's there and you just outsource that awareness to somebody else somebody you've never met before yeah I want to tell one little story just about the leaving the money aside and why that makes sense yeah I was engaged in a discussion someone I was talking to was really upset about welfare queens it's a you know term we have in America for folks who live off the doll and exploit the doll you know have more children to get more of greater welfare check or sell their food stamps for cash and do what they want you know these kinds of practices and this person I was talking with was saying how how how terrible and garbage you know the people who do that is and I replied with you know I don't see what they're doing is wrong it sounds like what they're doing smart they're you know they figured out the rules and it's a little bit of entrepreneurial spirit going on in there I have a problem with the welfare system in the first place you know that it's you know predatory in that in that sense to cause those people to do that and be dependent on it and then also that it exists in the first place you know and it's forced on the rest of everybody you know this person is someone who doesn't want to pay into a system like that so that's what they were upset about and then you know they they mentioned to me like well how would I get around that or how would we stop this problem and I said one word Bitcoin and they had questions about that they said oh so you know you would just rather have um uh you know you want to see your bitcoins go up in value and all those kinds of stuff and I I said you know what the value of Bitcoin is irrelevant to the point I'm making here I don't care what the price of Bitcoin is but you know teaching these people these so-called welfare queens or people who exploit these government programs teaching them about this can give them far more value than they could get from these government programs and continuing to stand in line and fill out forums year after year month after month or whatever uh and this person was sort of um stopped at that moment and they realized you know because they were they were stuck in that greed cycle that Chris mentioned they were thinking about the money thing. I mean I want to believe that uh yeah people are going to take full advantage of Bitcoin currency but let's be real the people who are on the the doll uh people who are are welfare queens as you put it are more addicted to getting a blank check every month than incentivizing themselves to learn something new right so I think with Bitcoin could do more harm than good to these people because when people have full uh ability to decide whether or not they're going to send their money somewhere or if they if they don't support this welfare scheme as you're talking about this person didn't support then they're not going to send the money and right now people don't have an option so let let me just counter with with the point that you know in working in social services for some part of my professional career I saw a lot of people who were very dependent on these systems uh some of them were looking for a way out some of them were happy to continue taking what they were getting um but all of them almost all of them had a little side game going on it was like a little a little entrepreneurial project of theirs and all I'm saying is that you you you know give them a little bit of it obviously lift the education part is important I totally agree with you there and and it's irresponsible to just dump uh cryptocurrency on these people you gotta lift them up and and and and and if they're interested educate them on it but what I'm getting at is that there is entrepreneurial spirit going on they're selling their food stamps to get cash to then go and do their off the books businesses that they're doing in their communities and whatever these these may be you know uh I saw them going on all the time and I was like man if they could just take that practice that energy that they've got and you know just start to wean themselves off but they of course can't but assist but with with the help of something that appreciates and something that empowers like Bitcoin and which are you know food stamps do not do which other other welfare programs do not do um that was the point I was getting at that you know you you you give these people you nurture that side of it and and people don't have to do that for other people cryptocurrency does that for people when you participate in it when you first send it I mean we talked a lot about this in my meetup last night we had a number of minorities we always do in Milwaukee at our meetup come and show up at our meetup and they talked about this like they want to get bring this to their communities to their aunts and uncles and cousins and show them how it works and and the we were talking about the difficulty they're in like you're mentioning Derek the the point I'm making is you know the price of Bitcoin is irrelevant the price of the currency the conversion rate is irrelevant the technology is what's relevant and I think that's what what I loved so much about what Chris's message was to the city of hope yeah I think one of the important things is I do have quite strong view on on how to help these people just because I've been there myself and I've been working on this idea for a few years um if you want to change somebody you've got to change the context there aren't very many people in the world that can change other people because most people have a hard enough time just changing themselves really you're not going to be able to help somebody else find their potential until you've understood yourself and the problem is there's lots of people out there that love going around telling other people what to do with their lives but they're not being honest with themselves not being frank about their situation and thus they end up making it worse look like I said you're not going to be able to throw money at this problem hoping it's going to go away but what's different about using a cryptocurrency especially a deflationary one with fixed issuance supply is that it's not free the money that the poor have been given in the past has come from the government that has been free money because the government can always print more money and so it was abundant and now we've got a problem that the banks I'm talking specifically about the UK I can't speak about anywhere else but the banks in the UK now are rushing to recapitalize that balance sheets hoping they can cover that losses in time they can get away with this and start again and what that means is they can't just print to infinity because that would be insane but what they are what that does mean is that we have had to have all these austerity measures why because the pound is a globally traded commodity on the currency exchange the 4x market which is the largest market in the world it's something like five trillion dollars a day or something stupid like that and as a result the UK government has to be seen to be saying the right things for the speculators and one of those things is we have to have austerity even though it's made virtually no impact on the balance sheets of the government ledger just because you know it windals in comparison I mean I've been trying to find out the official figures of the addressable tax base in the UK I'm led to believe I don't have this on firm evidence I'm led to believe that the addressable tax base in the UK is about five trillion pounds but of that five trillion only about 10 to 20 billion actually gets taxed and who attacks the people that can't afford to defend themselves attacks right so in actual fact what you could just do is just tax google half of the actual corporate rate as it stands and not tax anyone else and still raise the same amount of money it would make virtually no difference to that to to google I mean look at Apple what did they do with all their surplus cash they they inflated the bond market I would look at what google's doing google's buying up London property so that it appreciates in value that's why don't they just pay pay the staff more pay more tax rather than sticking it into all these foreign markets and creating all these bubbles it just doesn't make any sense so that's why that the benefit culture worked for a while was that it it created comfort it was actually quite uh incidious because it ended up creating a dependency on the part of the people claiming it and then all of a sudden when it turned out the unit and actually needed that money for something else and actually the political reasons why we can't give it to you anymore because you know the tabloids will have a field day and the speculators won't like us what you get with the cryptocurrency is it's not free money so when whole city council have all that mining equipment that is a scarce finite resource they can't just give this away to to anyone and the people that get it too will start to feel a sense of like okay I can't just fritter this away because it is actually scarce but it isn't just about the money you've also got to help people like I do career coaching I have a I'm not plugging anything because I don't I don't charge for it but Future.do it's a future facing CV where you have to say what you want to do with your life rather than what you've done and it's all about getting people to to tell themselves a different story about themselves like the story we tell ourselves about ourselves really informs the way we understand our possibilities people paint themselves into corners and they tell themselves they can't do anything and they reduce their own options and they just get in their own way and and part of it is just about listening to people and and because a lot of these people just haven't been listened to at all all they ever do their experience when I went out and I went to Jobseekers Job Center pluses when I was doing my research in my future CV project a lot of people I spoke to look like nobody had ever listened to their point of view before all they'd ever had was people like they would interrupt me expecting me to to interrupt them they were sort of waiting for me to tell them what to do next it's like I'm not telling you the thing I just want to hear your story like like how did you get here what do you want to what do you want to be when you're a kid you know that question gets people a lot like I find that really successful people are often people that always remind themselves of what they wanted to be before they were told what they wanted to be if that makes sense like um yeah that's it it's something to do with society telling you that you are a certain way and then you living up to that expectation because that was apparently what you were supposed to be and just trying to undo that I'm not saying that Bitcoin solves all these problems it doesn't it certainly doesn't but what it does do is it gives you a very powerful tool a constraint that you can turn into a variable a constraint that you can actually use to free people because freedom isn't the same as emancipation freedom is work freedom is art and and I I think that justice really I want to go all the way back to Socrates and he said that justice is everyone minding their own business and what he meant by that was people just focusing on what there are doing what they wanted to do and not interfering on other people's affairs where they had no no no place being there I actually think that peace is not the absence of conflict it absolutely is not peace is art it is work it should be effortful and we should want to do that work it shouldn't be you know I yeah sure war scales whatever yeah you want to be big just so that you can have some control um so that that's what I I don't know all the answers yet is what I'm saying but I do think that this is the beginning of something that we can actually give people a way of frictionlessly like look at all these business ideas so I I do go out to like local communities right and you meet people and they're very entrepreneurial we had the London riots in 2011 in the in London I wasn't even in London at the time but I was watching them from abroad and um how entrepreneurial with these kids right like they were buying vans and raiding these shops in in the middle of thing they were like commissioning people to like go higher of vans so they could ram raid the shop whilst all the the police were preoccupied elsewhere they were then selling this stuff on ebay like these guys were really entrepreneurial not one person sat down with them and said you know what if you could take that that potential and you could take that you know business acumen and actually apply it to somewhere do you see what I mean like I just felt like it was an utter utter waste of human capital that nobody would bother to sit down with these young people and try to find that potential and try to work out like you know rather than me just telling you what what I think you should do maybe I should just stop talking and listen to you and see what it is you might want to do does that does that make sense sounds good moving on issue four more let's see mount gocks 180,000 bitcoin moving 180,000 bitcoins believing to be the personal bitcoins of Mark Carpella stored in a mount gocks account however have started moving blockchain walker watchers are tracking this exciting development with baited breath could this be the beginning of refunds for mount gocks customers or is someone trying to move their ill gotten gains will they get away with it your thoughts will hang well I was struck when most by this this mount gocks stuff a few weeks ago when mark carpella said admitted that he's temporarily the funds are temporarily unavailable they're out of his control essentially so I'm more interested in what that means and then maybe perhaps connecting that to this recent movement of a large amount of funds if if they were temporarily unavailable or is that is this the balance that he was referring to partially I'm sure and then if so maybe he's not the one moving them so I'm sure our venerable grassroots bitcoin community detectives will be hot on the trail and will uncover something soon as usual there's been no communication from mount gocks oh man there's been some class trolling hasn't there on this story since the beginning so like the there's a facebook page of like this PR company claiming to own gots.com and they're sort of coming out with these hilarious posts there was even a post of a video of mark carpellers in his moment on tv claiming that he was blinking s os you know he was blinking this secret code giving everyone a warning the trolls are on this gocks story are on top form apt I'm not saying this is a troll necessarily but I'll say again what I've been saying so far just assuming the funds are gone I we don't know for sure it looks on the balance probabilities it does look like it's it's the private keys in control of carpellers because otherwise why would the coins have moved now why wouldn't they have moved no attackers no thief is going to wait and take that chance is they're going to want to get the coins straight away but if you do have coins in gocks I think you should just live your life as if they're gone and then at least if they aren't you'll be pleasantly surprised Derek Jay yeah so I've been following this and I've been curious whose coins are they where are they what happened and up until today I believed that they were in the hands of government agents and I thought that it was clever wording by carpellers to say that the the keys were inaccessible or I think it was his wording not that the the bitcoins were gone but that they weren't in his control and to me that sounds like someone who's got a gag order where the government came in and took their stuff and said you know you can't control this anymore but now that we see the coins are moving I see that's not the case it seems like if it's not carpellers it's an insider at gocks for sure and they're looking to mix their own their coins I mean the reason I don't think it's a government agent is because they're not interested in mixing their coins we never saw them do that with DPR's coins or anything any other thing and nor do they have any incentive to because they've got the veil of authority behind them right they've got this legitimacy that well when we take stuff it's legitimate and we don't need to hide what we've done so it seems like it's an insider at gocks and it's not a government agent and I will they get away with it that's an interesting one because the blockchain has made it possible for people to do their own sort of investigative private reporting or private investigations but we'll get a serious test of how good these mixing services are in the next couple of days exit question yes or no will mount gocks customers receive refunds will payment I regrettably think it's unlikely Chris J yeah I think it's very unlikely Derek J yeah I think they will receive refunds at least in promise only I don't think it's going to be what we're used to like off here's the money sorry it's going to be like you know you'll get paid out within the next 10 years we promise to make good blah blah blah it'll be settled in Fiat you know just something to save face I would hope I that's what I would think did we see the got do we see like the um the thing on the master coin we're thinking of creating a gocks coin an actual tradable coin for every coin that was in there it's actually not a bad idea life on Bitcoin posted out I kind of looked at it briefly do you guys see that yeah I've heard about it um I like it it's I think it's a human project which is the the company that allows you to create your own altcoin you know they'll create it for you you give them the specifications it's a great idea I think it's partially the brainchild of Adam B. Levine of Let's Talk Bitcoin and and no there's some recent talk you know in their most recent episode they do discuss it I haven't had a chance to check it out but I did read through some early drafts I think or something like that of the proposal and it sounds like a great idea I mean who knows it it's a tradable it's a tradable thing in and of itself and it's certainly if it can be if it can be uh provably ascribed to the depositors you know pretty well that the accounting can be uncovered you know if if my guys can submit their balance sheet so that the the right allocation can be made to each person I think it's a great idea it could it could actually set a whole new paradigm for how to deal with bankruptcy when I looked at the idea I thought oh wow this is really cool this could actually pave a new way for recovering because one of the points that it's been made is that gocs do have something like 30 million dollars in cash so it's not as if they can't bootstrap another company all that has to happen is that Carpellers needs to just step aside and someone needs to take over with that capital what I'd like to see him do is give a way a sizable chunk of his money I'd like to see him take a substantial hit his net worth actually I found him on LinkedIn funnily enough and his LinkedIn actually his LinkedIn profile is hilarious it says that having moved on from the video industry wherever he used to work on he's now wanting to build something that's going to last and I was like oh my god he's obviously written that you know just before he set up empty gocs or you know very early on but those words I'm building something that's going to last and it's going to survive and I'm like oh my word he probably needs to change that he probably hasn't checked his profile for a long time so I do support that idea I think they do have cash I think for a lot of people that have lost money they would appreciate you know something rather than nothing because if it goes through regular liquidation the people that get the money are the liquidators they get their money first then the government get their money then insiders get their money right because the first thing that you want to do when you're going bankrupt is you want to pick your own liquidator number one and number two you want to protect yourself and your friends because you want to be able to go off and set another company and one of the things about liquidation is you can't manage another company afterwards so you need to keep your friends and I've seen it all too many times so this would actually be a very good way around that all right we're running out of time but I just like to go through a few question and answers apologies that my sound was too low I usually have the opposite problem we'll do some more sound testing in the pre-show next time hopefully take care of that I've turned it up now and moved the mic closer so it's probably twice as loud silver miner wanted us to talk about the 113 million in gocks bitcoin moving through the blockchain and we did it was just a very precedent comment by a silver miner a good evening everyone from coder trader he likes what Andreas has done in the donation fund program and he'd like to set this as a precedent for other types of fundraisers is there a guideline for creating one I'm not sure there's a guideline but you can pretty much do it yourself obviously for this situation it helps that Andreas is a trusted member of the community and there's trust that he will do what he said with the money but beyond that you put a bitcoin address up you put your goal up you start fundraising you start spreading the word telling people what you're going to do maybe create a video talk about your background and your role and you're a bitcoin fundraiser now yeah I saw Andreas he posted a video verification with his PGP key so that you could verify that this fundraiser was authored by him um that's another good idea um yet another is perhaps I like Thomas's point about multi-signature wallets being a solution um for lots of things this is probably another use case uh you know if if that's uh an area of expertise in any way for for this person the person asking the question perhaps do some digging and and create a functionality so that for example you could give um in this case Dorian Nakamoto the ability to be one of the signers for a multi-sig transaction of this you know the donation recipient right so that's another suggestion it seems to be transparent absolutely transparency sunlight is the best disinfectant uh we've got a two-bit idiot should have waited for at least three confirmations before breaking the story very funny from silver miner the silver miner also says that the guys at the dark wallet dark wallet project believe that the bitcoin foundations are frauds this could be revealed with the two-bit idiot article scheduled to be published on monday unless they resign James Canning asks our opinion about hunter coin it's the first crypto currency that's human minable as well as machine minable the proof of work is in a video game that you play i've read the basic things it sounds like a cool idea do you guys have any thoughts on hunter coin? oh i love it i've never heard of it but an idea of a coin that can be mined by humans playing video games appeals to me i actually covered it on the world crypto network on the day where i tried to keep up with altcoin announcements and found that i couldn't i did about 20 altcoin announcements that day and they just kept rolling in and i learned about so cool ones in that episode but not this one i'd like to get back to that and i'd like to do some more altcoin announcements i think what's important is to try to put them into categories and uh separate the truly innovative and interesting ones like hunter coin where they've obviously done work to make a game and use this game proof of work system compared to the ones that are just photocopies and just exact copies of the previous coin he's got more information on hunting hunter coin from james canning we have a question from red herring interesting name he says did you know autumn radkey anything suspicious about her death i personally didn't know her or know of her before the story broke uh it's very unfortunate they believe she has committed suicide uh the story i um i she's she's from maskego was constant which is about uh you know 25 miles southwest of milwaki and she's uh she's younger than me i i i'm acquainted with some of her friends who did a life celebration for her last night um at a restaurant uh near downtown so um i wasn't acquainted with her but i acquainted with her friends talked uh briefly with one of them and um yeah it's it's sad you know um milwaki and was constant in general exports a lot of really great talent uh this is true of lots of places but i i noticed it because you know you know there's there's some some great names that never come back you know jeremy scayhill and chris farley and i could keep going but um it's sad it's so sad to lose a bright young entrepreneur especially one that's a female role model for others too so um yeah i hope i hope i hope some the authorities can figure out what really did happen there it's been very unfortunate and it's also unfortunate the way it's being covered in the media i know a lot of non-bit corners have been repeating the phrase the CEO of bitcoin died and then they think it's suspicious and they get involved in this suicide or not suicide and it's not the CEO bitcoins use the CEO of a bitcoin company not the bitcoin company there is no the bitcoin company so it's unfortunate that it's leading to that confusion as well um we've got a great question from Chad McDonald when talking to new people about bitcoin what are some of your favorite phrases regarding the perception of value and i think this uh this goes right into a question by dan emons who asked did you guys find amusement in the stuff that bitcoin fanatics say video and pretty much we say the things that they say in that video so i would check out the stuff bitcoin fanatics say a lot of it sounds like exactly quotes from andres and monopolists or perhaps this show it's a very funny video he has another in the series of things that apple fanatics say and i've definitely said a lot of those things myself over the year uh great i've i've got one that i use from roger verr otherwise known as bitcoin jesus who said the least interesting thing about bitcoin is the price i know many people have said it uh and so i attributed to him others may have attributed elsewhere but i think that's one of the best uh phrases with regard to bitcoin all right just a few more questions we're going to get through have you heard of spain coin similar to the model of aurora coin this is the first i'm hearing of it i thought aurora coin sounded like a pretty good idea and i think spain coin on the face also sounds like a good idea um armando vatana writes i am satoshi you're a satoshi we're all satoshi excellent sentiment and david howard writes that we're in a culture of media increasingly not taking responsibility for their actions and this story is just another example that's a great point david and silver miner asked is there any software that convert that can convert the price of altcoins listed on krypsi to fiat or btc on the checkout page of an online store i would like to accept all altcoins on krypsi i don't know if it's software but there is a company called coin payments dot net it's kind of similar to bit pay but they allow you to accept pretty much all of the altcoins they have an incredible list at coin payments dot net so you can check that out and we're doing pretty good so i think that's going to be about it for questions we're going to move on to predictions which is everyone's favorite part of the show where i asked you to predict the future are you ready christ j i've got a sad prediction which is i i do think that the number of suicides is going to go up in finance sector because it's not just this recent sad case that was just mentioned it's also there've been suicides at jp morgan in the last few months there've been some other suicides i had a friend who recently at his company somebody in that company took their own life actually in a very public way that was quite traumatic for the staff there so i do think that as some of these financial pressures bet down on us i would just like people to be conscious of that if you do know somebody who is struggling in life you can save their life just by asking and just by talking to them and getting them to to talk about that problems first absolutely and in the united states we have several suicide hotlines if you're not feeling well if you know someone that's not feeling well please encourage them to call and ask for help it's very depressing prediction i hope it doesn't come true yeah me too yeah we'll hear more stories about local governments like the one in a hole taking on bitcoin or other cryptocurrencies of their own creation i think that's a positive development and i'd like to see more of it going forward will penguin my prediction is that we are not done with the spate of massive news the stream of five weeks of just incredible you know i hate the term but earth shaking stories some very positive announcements of foot i think that will be big big movers and then perhaps you know come Monday we'll see what with too bit idiots got you know in store but um some i think there's my prediction is massive news stories with regard to bitcoin continue excellent we've got a couple more comments from the questions uh still reminder check it out and coin payments dot net had to close down because of fin send money transmitter laws that's very unfortunate i was just speaking to them and perhaps a week ago they wanted to be mentioned on the show that's too bad it's a disappointing development yeah i was talking with them like a week ago as well i got no indication of that they were talking about growth and things we will have to confirm that we'll have to check out the web page but right now we have no reason to doubt silver miner we have one more question from wrestling jesus can you please ask someone to make a puppet of Derek j what does that mean he just wants a puppet of you man wow cool i thought it was really funny so i had him fit it in there but i almost look like a mannequin the way him dressed there you go and finally one more prediction said tochi nakamoto is plugged in he knows what's going on he can see the media trying to find him and he's one step ahead of them every time however he is responsive to our needs he knows that we need to know what happened to the 1.6 million bitcoins and their keys and i believe he just might tell us we're running out of time until next week bye bye