The Bitcoin Group, the American Original, for over the last ten seconds, the sharpest Satoshi's, the best bitcoins, the hardest cryptocurrency talk. Today, we'd like to welcome our panelists, Derek J. Freeman from Bitcoin, Philadelphia. Hey! D'Avie Barker from shinybagets.com. Hello. Megan Lourdes from Bitcoin, not bombs. Hello. And Will Pangman from Bitcoin, Milwaukee. Hey there. The Bitcoin Group is sponsored by Alpha Line Technologies. Alpha Line Technologies. They don't make the altcoins. They make the altcoins of the future. And how to make your own altcoin today at AlphaLionTechnologies.com. The Bitcoin Group would also like to announce that we've reached a major milestone. The Bitcoin Group now has more than 1,038 subscribers on YouTube. Thank you all for your generous support. Subscription and donation information at thebitcoingroup.com. We'd also like to announce that we've added a cryptocurrency trade key. So if you'd like to send us any kind of altcoin and increase the likelihood of that altcoin being discussed on the show, please send your altcoins to our cryptocurrency trade key that's available at thebitcoingroup.com. Issue 1. Net neutrality. Shut down. Verizon recently won a minor court case that will allow them to accept bribes for delivering some internet traffic faster than others. The decision is a disaster for the open internet and all thinking people everywhere should boycott Verizon and cancel their service immediately. What can we do to stop this telecommunications giant from destroying the open internet that we all know and love? Derek J. I am not concerned. People vote with their dollars and they will do the right thing in this instance. Thinking people will switch over from Verizon and they will use other providers. It's as simple as that. We'd still have the freedom to vote with our dollar and that will be the solution in this instance. Davi Barker. Let the market decide. If large firms start making decisions that the consumer doesn't like, then small firms can take up that opportunity to take up market share. If there are large monopolistic firms providing internet service, then that is a single point of failure, which means that it will fail, which means that we'll all be pushed into other alternative service providers. The way I see it, the less regulation that the state puts on internet service providers, the more diverse marketplace and internet service providers can exist. Megan Lordes. Yeah, I don't expect Verizon or these other large corporations to act ethically, but I don't trust the government to restrain them either. I think we should leave it up to the market and let people chase for themselves and leave Verizon if they're going to be acting that way. Will Payingman. When I heard the news, I wasn't surprised one bit. We hear things like this coming out all the time where there's a lot of platitudes, there's a lot of spin about whatever measures might be taken to give a corporation a favorable position in the market or to maybe give government agency or just the government itself, more dominion than it deserves or certainly should have. I think what this does is it just kind of stokes the arms raised in technology that we're seeing. I guess what I'm looking at is the open source movement, if you will, compared to all of these proprietary systems that are being deployed all the time and they're very slow. I don't think they, you know, these large corporations with all their moving parts and their slow deployments of new technology can outpace the innovation of the open source software developers and new applications. So I'm really excited kind of about this because I think it kind of puts a little fire under the pants of the projects that are out there building a freer internet for us in currently, things like mesh networking and so on. I kind of see this as a positive. Even though the iron fist has a velvet glove on, the entrepreneur is out there building the open source solutions to all of these closed systems, these proprietary systems. They can see right through that velvet and they know it's coming and they're way ahead of the game and they're eager to give us decentralized solutions here to these problems. So, you know, I kind of root for the iron fist to drop because it exposes the kind of hypocrisy and the control structure and the hypocrisy being that, you know, they can claim dominion but they really don't have it and we can demonstrate this through a lot of the innovations that I'm seeing in the tech sector. That's interesting. Well, and I do think that it does give an option for mesh networks to come along and save us. I've always thought that if only Wi-Fi went a little bit further like Wi-Max or another solution, we could have these overlapping packets of mesh networks where you could get your files the normal way. It would just bounce through five other local people, more of a local internet. You'd like to welcome Andreas Antonopoulos to the call. It appears to be muted but if you'd like to comment, Andreas, we were discussing net neutrality being struck down by Verizon. You know, it's a really, it is a terrible thing that after years and years of internet innovation being fueled by the fact that anyone can participate at any size and deliver innovation simply by doing something smart at the edge of the network. Now we have once again gatekeepers who will use this power to give us a world garden internet and internet where innovation is stifled because of the requirement to ask for permission. Netflix would not have happened without net neutrality. Facebook would not have happened without net neutrality. eBay would not have happened without net neutrality. Craigslist would not have happened. All of the internet, all of the good things would not have happened without net neutrality. We need to fix this not because it affects Bitcoin but because it affects our abilities to continue to use the internet as a source of incredible innovation and it's so short-sighted. Essentially you've just handed this ability to these gatekeepers to extract rent seeking fees from everyone as access gatekeepers and we know what happens then. They turn it into a mess. Absolutely. Well put. Exit question. Will net neutrality be saved? Yes or no? Derek Freeman. Yes, of course. People are already working on it. One solution that I recommend people check out is something called open garden. Dovey Barker. I think it will be backed by popular demand but I don't anticipate it being as much of a dependency as people want it to be. Megan Lourdes. Yes. I'll keep it some. Will Pangman. I'm optimistic usually on things and I'm inclined to say yes. And Chris Antonobulus. Not in the US. Hopefully in places like Europe when they're going to have strong laws to really not allow them to take the ball home and not allow the rest of us to play. But in the US the average consumer doesn't understand the value of net neutrality so we just lost a huge, huge benefit. As horrible, horrible thing to say. Issue 2. The Sacramento Kings begin accepting Bitcoin. The Sacramento Kings recently sold to Indian technology billionaire Vivek Randi. He says he's wasting no time in making sweeping changes to the Kings including taking his children suggestion and becoming the first team in the NBA to accept Bitcoin for both tickets and gear in the fan store. As I'm sure you all recall the Bitcoin group famously predicted on 12, 12, 2013 that perhaps a sports franchise would one day be bought with Bitcoin. But would you accept? But who would have thought that one would accept it so soon? A truly stunning development. Your thoughts? Dovey Barker? I don't care about sports. So I am not going to be shopping with the Kings. But what I think is really good about this story is that he's taking the advice from his children. And I think that that sort of expresses the generational gap that is going on with the future of money. And I think that it is wise for the elder generation to look to the younger generation for leads. Megan Lords. Yeah, I know nothing about sports. But I do think it's great news. And entertainment is a huge industry that Bitcoin needs to get involved in. And I think this is the first step towards that. And I think like Dovey said too, the fact that he's listening to younger generations about that and he's open to that is a really good thing. I'd like to see more of that. So yeah, I think they're setting a good precedent. I'd like to see other sports teams get involved in musicians. I mean, it doesn't have to be limited to sports. So yeah, I think it's great news. Will Penguin. Number Sroot Lyon. And now the Sacramento Kings. I mean, these are nice developments to see. You know, those franchises attract mainstream audience. And we know that Bitcoin is now relatively permanent in the Lexicon here in North America and in many other places in the Western world. That's a great thing. allows our introduction to people who don't nothing else other than the name Bitcoin, a leg up in skipping over some of the what is discussions that need to be had and going right to why Bitcoin, which I really appreciate the opportunity to be able to just get right to the why, especially with people in US where all of us are, you know, most of us full time here in the US and we have a very strange, you know, we have a different message that we need to deliver to the mainstream audience, then the rest of the world does to their so-called mainstream audience. Andreus and Nanopolis. All right, it got into technology because I got kicked out of every sports team that ever played anywhere near me. That was if balls weren't flying towards my face and I wasn't getting bullied for it. So I have no idea who the Sacramento kings are. But what that means is Bitcoin is going mainstream because I am definitely not mainstream. So if I've never heard of it, that's a good thing. Yay. Derek J. Yeah, imaginative people cared about things that actually matter as much as they care about sports. Sports are the opiate of the masses and every business that accepts Bitcoin is a domino that leads to other businesses accepting Bitcoin. So just another domino, but it happens to be a big domino connected to a lot of other dominoes. So I've been telling people about Bitcoin for years and nothing has excited the masses more than a sports team selling hats and jerseys for Bitcoin. And tickets. I think it's a really major development and like Megan was saying, it's and don't be saying it's an important development because they listen to their children. The children said, why don't you accept Bitcoin? This is so behind the times, all these lines, all these people dealing out change. What is this? A casino? Casinos don't even use change anymore. They don't even. So square. It's really. But I mean, listen to the children. Listen to, perhaps we could get Hilton hotels on board if we could only get Paris Hilton to take Bitcoin. Is it really that easy? It might be. Yeah, the generational thing is a really important to live must task. If, as Dauvin just said, if dollars are seen as square and Bitcoin is seen as the currency of the new generation, that's about a week and win decisively. Absolutely. Exit question. Will it be all NBA teams next? Or will Bitcoin acceptance branch out to other sports? Which team will accept Bitcoin next? Dauvi Barker. I think it's got to be the 49ers because of the honest currency implications of the name. Megan Lawrence. I don't know the Portland Honey Badgers. I don't know any sports teams. Like I've gotten so clue about anything to do with sports. I think we're going to see a break in the other sports, so this is really not my area of expertise. I think we're going to see it spread to a lot of different outside of the NBA, a lot of other sports. Will, Paymas. Yeah, I don't see any major leagues accepting Bitcoin far and wide anytime soon. But I certainly think some of the teams or franchises in parts of the developing world that have struggling currencies, the soccer league and Argentina comes to mind, or maybe even the Argentinian national team, the World Cup's right around the corner. So I think we'll see a team here and there. But this is not the exciting part for me. I guess what I get amped up about is we talk about making predictions in past shows. And we're thinking, every time we see a new announcement, we're still in this phase of being excited about the new announcement when it's a big name that most of the people in the Western world know about. And the fact that a professional sports franchise in one of the most popular professional leagues in the world just went out and took the risk, there is no risk really. They just have to be bold enough to announce this and implement it. And it's very easy to implement. I mean, all of us here know this. The rest of the audience who might pay attention to news from Overstock or news from the NBA, they don't know this how easy it can be. So I really like the bold gesture. And the fact that it's happening so soon in the new year when we're making these predictions, ambitious predictions, relatively soon, we're predicting things to happen pretty soon. And then they happen even sooner than we predict. That's exciting to me. Andres and to Nobles. Yeah, the sport I'm interested in is international and remittances helping one billion people lift themselves up from poverty by giving them more of the money they have earned. That's a sport, right? Derek J. Yeah, I think it's going to be the LA Lakers or like Dovey said, the San Francisco team. It's going to be someone in California or possibly Boston, I could see like Patriots type of area. It depends on the clientele. It's going to be someone in a more tech savvy area, California or maybe some parts of Boston, some similar to that. Yeah. I think that will be- Who's A Sharks? San Jose Sharks, good point. I think we'll made a good point by bringing up overstock.com in comparison with the Kings. With the Kings, what you have is an actual brick and mortar retail establishment, where they're selling hats and t-shirts, they're selling tickets, they're accepting tickets, all for Bitcoin in real time. With overstock, you have the online example. So now both major retail and brick and mortar and major retail online, you have a gigantic example of why they should accept Bitcoin. That being said, the next team to accept Bitcoin will be the Dallas Mavericks and they'll accept Litecoin as well. Perhaps Dogecoin, why not? Issue three, Gavin goes to the CFR. Lead Bitcoin developer Gavin Andreson is going to the mouth of the lion to the council on foreign relations. The council on its face runs the popular magazine, Foreign Affairs, and often has speakers usually broadcast on CNN at its meetings. This meeting, however, will not be televised. Are the rich trying to take over Bitcoin or merely to understand it? Do they think that Gavin is our leader? Do they think that through him they can control Bitcoin? Megan Lords. If they think anyone is our leader, they don't understand Bitcoin. But it is interesting. I'm surprised this didn't come sooner, honestly. The CFR is a major organization. And actually, these kind of organizations that I'm more concerned about than government regulators at this point, I mean, these are international organizations that the richer obviously concerned about the future of Bitcoin and what it means. Like Andres says, for the rest of the world, they see a lot of wealth to be stolen. And I'm sure that they're going to try to get control of it in any way that they can. So I don't think that, of course, they can't, you know, through him control Bitcoin. That's not possible. I think they're curious, but I think they also are aware of the implications Bitcoin has. And yeah, it's very telling that this isn't going to be televised. So I think it'll be interesting. I mean, I would like to see footage of it if that somehow becomes available later. But yeah, it's very interesting. And yeah, I think we should be a little bit concerned. But not overly paranoid. I'm not necessarily a conspiracy theorist in regards to the CFR. And I think there's probably some shadowy politics involved. But I think the main conspiracy is the powerful people are going to work together to retain their power over other people. So yeah, there's some concern. And I'll be interested to see if they do end up releasing that footage and letting the little people see it. Will, Penguin. Yeah, I agree with Megan. It's more interesting to me what think tanks and roundtable groups take away from this new technology, then save regulatory bureaucracies. It's interesting that they chose the lead core developer of Bitcoin as opposed to a different thought leader. I think of only maybe three or four people that just in my experience in the Bitcoin space over the last year and a half or so. I could think of only a handful or less people that I would prefer or feel more comfortable about going to speak in front of the CFR in a closed door session that we probably won't get to see anything from. And Andrea, I should be one of those. But it's interesting that they chose Gavin, the core developer. I'm one, there's some definite strategy there, I think, rather than say Patrick Merck or maybe Jeff Garzick or Andreas or whoever. That's, it's curious. It's curious. It's curious of a college that we won't get to probably see the proceedings either or at least that one speech. So hopefully, like Megan will get to hear some feedback. I'm sure we'll hear some feedback, but it'd be nice to hear what Gavin says. Maybe he'll produce his speech and share it with us. That'd be nice in the spirit of open source. Yeah, I don't really see any harm that can come from Gavin talking to the CFR. It's a good thing. All of these seemingly negative stories that might come out, they, you know, it's all good exposure for Bitcoin. And you know, Bitcoin will do what it wants. Andres and to Nobles. Well, I can tell you for sure, I'm entirely the wrong person to go talk to the CFR. In fact, I think Gavin is just about perfect for the job. Gavin is pragmatic. He's moderates. He is focused on the technology. He will deliver factual information and even tone and a non-threatening tone to very powerful men. I very, and I mean men. And I hope at the back of this, there's a waiter who brought his iPhone with him so that we can watch the video afterwards and find out if it's 99% of us or 99.9% of us who are takers from these givers or something like that will be here to the secret transcript of this conversation. The CFR, you know, rich people who want to have an interest in money. So of course, they have an interest in Bitcoin. I'm not particularly worried. And I think Gavin is the perfect person to go and talk to them and give them a balanced perspective on Bitcoin. I probably would never leave the room. I'd be arrested. There, Jay. I'll keep it simple. The rich are trying to take over Bitcoin. They absolutely think that Gavin is the leader. And they think that they can control Bitcoin through him. Sunlight is the best disinfectant and closed door meetings among high profile power brokers are suspicious at best. That said, he shouldn't eat or drink anything offered. Bitcoin is also a user-neutral, so anyone can benefit from it. D'Avie Barker. I think to invite Gavin as an ambassador of Bitcoin and to acknowledge Bitcoin as a matter of foreign relations is the first acknowledgement of the Bitcoin economy's sovereignty by international political organizations. And as a citizen of the Bitcoin economy, I invite friendly people from all nations to visit our shores, to engage in free trade, to engage in Bitcoin tourism, and to learn from our unique culture and way of life. And who knows, maybe even immigrate to the Bitcoin economy? Well said, D'Avie. Well said. Yes. I just like to add that Bitcoin is bigger than one person, one developer. All code will be peer reviewed. This project has come too far to be defeated by a back door or a flaw. Bitcoin will survive. Issue four, Bitcoin Meetups 2014. 2014 is the year of the Bitcoin Meetup, with over 300 meetups listed on Meetup.com. These plucking meetup groups are banding together, sharing information with each other, and becoming more than just social clubs. They're becoming teams of activists with one goal, total Bitcoin acceptance. Question, will 2014 be the year of total Bitcoin acceptance? And are the Bitcoin Meetup groups the right way to get it done? I ask you, will, penguin. No and yes. It's going to, the meetups, I know the reason I started one in Milwaukee was to fast track adoption as much as possible. And there was zero presence here in Wisconsin in early 2013. And I didn't see much in the Midwest either. Even with Butterfly Labs in Kansas City, there's very little action there just outside of their office. And Chicago, the largest city in the Midwest, there's not much. You know, the couple of businesses here and there, and they do have an active Meetups. But yeah, the Meetups are the best way to fast track adoption. Building a human network on top of the Bitcoin platform is one of the most important projects as I see it. And that's what I've dedicated my time to. So I'm really eager to increase the health and growth of meetups that exist that maybe aren't as active or slightly weaker than some of the other ones. And also start new ones in a Johnny Applesy kind of a fashion. Wherever there are interested people who just need a little, you know, kick in the pants or some materials to help get them started or rubric to follow. You know, that's the kind of things that I'd like to produce for people. And there's like, I think five meetups, five Bitcoin meetups in Wisconsin. In the last seven months, since the one in Madison was first started and lasted a month until the one in Milwaukee was started. So it's exciting. This is one of the, this is my pet project. And it's one of the things I get so encouraged by the amount of talent that gravitates to these meetups and all of these localities is staggering. And I've done some homework and tried to network myself into other towns and regions in the country that have meetups and encountering the level of talent in some of the members there is really inspiring. And everyone's working on some or many projects. And yeah, it's the thing that gives me the most optimism in the face of some of these somewhat negative story lines that might emerge. Andreus and Tenoblis. Now Bitcoin is a network and it exhibits network effect. And the Bitcoin community is a social network. And that just strengthens the network effect. Meetups are the most important tool we have to spread Bitcoin. I think we need to look beyond just the local meetups and think of other ways we can get organized. I run a meetup here in San Francisco. The San Francisco Bitcoin developers meetups. So one of the things we can think of is also having meetups for developers to teach people how to code in Bitcoin. And also we're seeing here in California around Silicon Valley the emergence of a number of hackerspaces and collaborative working spaces where Bitcoin startups get together and they collaborate to innovate. So meetups for regular users to create an audience and to support the adoption of Bitcoin. Satoshi circles where we can trade and exchange big coins in open air markets. You Bitcoin develop our meetups so we can teach people how to code startup collaboration work spaces. Whenever I go to a conference I also visit the local regions meetups in order to speak of the meetups and speak to the crowds that come and are passionate about Bitcoin. And perhaps can't afford a conference but can afford to go to a meetup. So I would encourage everyone to participate in as many of these local communities as they can. Derek Jay. Yep, 2014's the year of total Bitcoin acceptance. I can't wait. So much can happen in a year and people have already hit the ground running. The acceptance that we've seen with Overstock and the Sanford, those Kings sports team, whatever is just an indication that this is going to be the year. Meetup groups are a great way to get it done. They're cheap and easy to set up and can even have an online presence as Will and the New York meetup has exhibited. So even if you don't have a meetup group in your area you can still virtually attend others. And it's the most essential part of these meetup groups is going to be the person on person connection of like, here's how you set up a wallet. Here's how you send Bitcoin. There's no thing on the internet that can replace having a person hold your hand to walk you through that. So I think the meetup groups are still essential at this point. Davi Barker. There's no such thing as a dollar meetup group. Most people learn how to use dollars, watching their parents at the grocery store or maybe getting their first job and opening their first bank account or something along those lines. So while I think that the meetup groups are a significant stepping stone towards total acceptance, by the time we achieve total acceptance they will be superfluous. They will have made themselves obsolete. There is a dollar meetup group. It's full of old white men and it's called a slip-off. And Gavin Anderson is going to speak to them. It's the latest meetup group in history. LAUGHTER Megan Lord. Well, total Bitcoin acceptance will only come as soon as the work that Bitcoiners put into our efforts for spreading the word. So I think Bitcoin meetups are a great way to do it. I'm really excited to see how many are popping up. And I love them because they're so accessible to people. Anyone can come. And there's a lot to be said for that hands-on face-to-face interaction, you walking someone through setting up a wallet, helping them with security. All of that, that's really important. Because not everyone, although most people in this country have internet access, not everyone can look up these things and read through them and really get a firm grasp of how to use Bitcoin or what Bitcoin is. And I think it's one of the best ways to get it out. I think we're going to see different approaches and different types of meetups, too. You could even have meetups split out and branch out specializing in different things. And I think that's great. So even making things a little more structured within the meetup groups, getting out a script people can take to places to pitch them Bitcoin, things like that. So yeah, I think it's really effective. It adds that face-to-face interaction that a lot of people need, especially a lot of people who, maybe older generations, different types of people getting involved, too, because a lot of us are really familiar with using the internet and things like that. But a lot of older people, the ones at least, that I've talked to that are interested, are very, very apprehensive. They're very almost, some of them are almost afraid of it. Like, they still think of it as like, oh, it's just like a bunch of pornostides and stuff. Like, they're very hesitant to use it. But if you can meet them face-to-face and walk them through it, I think they're going to be much more likely to jump on. So yeah, they're a great thing. And yeah, one of the best ways to get the word out. I agree. A lot of great ideas talked about here. And I think it is really magical to give someone their first Bitcoin a little bit of it. And then to see it in their wallet. And then they could send it to someone else, and someone else across the table. And then you could donate it to the pizza fund. That's just a QR code that's printed out on the table. I think there's a lot of easy, real world examples where you can show off the power of Bitcoin. Even if you're in a restaurant that doesn't take Bitcoin, having one person pay the bill and then paying Bitcoin to that person directly during the meetup as a demonstration, maybe even calling the manager over and saying, watch this, they're about to pay me for the bill. And all they have to do is scan this QR code. 2014 is the year of the meetup and the year of total Bitcoin adoption. Exit question, have you joined or started your local meetup group yet? Will Penguin? Yes. And I just want to echo what you were saying, Thomas, about the joys that people experience with their first Bitcoin. Every week, we make sure that any new member comes to the meetup who doesn't already have a Bitcoin wallet or some Bitcoins, they get some. And they're always amazed at how quick and easy it is to receive some Bitcoins. They look up like what was that it? And yeah, that was it. And they see it and how fast it is. And it's just an eye-opening experience for them. I never get tired of sharing that with people. And again, the venue that we hold meetups accepts Bitcoin. So if I'm closing my tab out at the end of the night because I like to share, show people that, hey, yeah, you can run a tab and you can pay in Bitcoin and here check it out. And there's always patrons who didn't attend our meetup upstairs at the venue we use. And they're there watching me sometimes tired at the end of a long meetup, pay up for the tab. And they ask what's going on. And four months ago or more, they would say, I'd say, oh, I'm paying in Bitcoin and they'd be like, what's that? And in the last three, four months, I mentioned that to, I don't know, every night that I've checked out there every week. And the response I get is, oh, yeah, I know what that is. Wow, that was it. They just paid bad genie in Bitcoin. You know, it's, I might retract what I said that 2014 is the year of total acceptance because everyone has it in their lexicon now. And the hard work of defining Bitcoin for people is kind of done thanks to a lot of major media exposure of at least the term. And then we can do the rest of the work in showing how Bitcoin is for everybody. Like Derek said during the CFR topic, Bitcoin is for everybody. It doesn't matter your socioeconomic status. It doesn't matter what demographic you come from. It's for everybody. Attract certain types of people initially. And that's OK. But I really do get off on showing people how it's for everybody. Excellent. And Dre is Andanopolis. Yes, I'm a member of a number of Bitcoin meetups and I've started one myself. One thing I did for the meet-up I started was we implemented a well-defined anti-harassment policy with enforceable action and clear directions to create a safe and welcoming environment for people of all walks of life to create diversity within the environment. One of the things we have to be careful about is the fact that Bitcoin is still male-dominated, white-dominated, English-speaking-dominated. And these environments can appear at least unwelcoming to people from other walks of life, to people of other gentrists, to people of minority status. And anti-harassment policies are necessary because we're already seeing some nasty events happen. So you need to create the welcoming environments as well as an enforcement mechanism. Derek J. Yep, I helped start Bitcoin Philadelphia. The website is bitcoinphl.com. And one of the things that our group has decided to focus on is creating a Wiki of Wikis, which anyone can participate in. And I invite you to do that where there's lots of information about Bitcoin on the net. But if you're really just getting started, it can be overwhelming. And so we want to develop a Wiki of Wikis that can link to other Wikis and help people get started in a way that makes a lot of sense and is easy for first-time users. So yeah, bitcoinphl.com is the website. And we meet up once a week every Wednesday in Philadelphia. D'Avi Barker. I've attended a couple of my local meetups, both in Sunnyvale and in San Francisco. A couple of weeks ago, I actually attended the meetup in Portland. But I wouldn't say that I make a habit of it. Megan Lorde. So this is something that Sean's outpost crew down here in Pensacola has been talking a lot about. We've been trying to figure it out. And I'm happy to announce that Pensacola will be having its first meetup tomorrow night. So we're really excited. We've kind of all been working independently to spreading the word about Bitcoin, at least in Pensacola, which is a smaller city compared to a lot of where these other meetups take place. But I'm really excited because I think this will help us get more organized and help us reach out to local businesses more efficiently. So I'm really excited. And I've seen the success of the other ones. I've kind of, of course, I've kind of limited to Pensacola. But yeah, I'm really excited about the potential. And yeah, it'll be starting officially tomorrow night. So. Excellent. And I've been joining Bitcoin Sacramento. And we're working on getting ready for the Kings. It's going to be big. So now moving on to questions and answers. Let's see. Questions. How many of you are not wearing any pants? Let's see. The next question. What do you think could be the demise of Bitcoin? I won't tell you which ones. So what do you think could be the demise of Bitcoin? The ever increasing sinking times, the increasing centralization of miners, even censorship. I'm pro Bitcoin. But I just want some reassurance about the potential problems. And, Drey, is Antonopoulos? I think external factors can no longer affect Bitcoin other than temporarily causing little price dumps, which are followed by rallies. So I'm not worried about external factors anymore. Centralization of mining is self-correcting. The sinking blockchain bloats, all of those issues are getting solved and are not particularly serious. 51% attacks don't concern me. Probably the only scenario I can see where Bitcoin can be infected is a deep-seated bug in the ECDSA signature algorithm that causes private addresses a week. And that is highly improbable. And it's probably the most scrutinized cause in Bitcoin. I really don't see any failure scenarios right now. I am extremely optimistic. I think Bitcoin is good enough. And once it achieved network effect, it's pretty much unstoppable. Yeah, I want to add that I agree. And I'm not concerned about Bitcoin in particular. But if I were, if there were vulnerabilities in Bitcoin, it would be easy enough to switch over to some other cryptocurrency. So it's really not a concern for people in this economy. Right. Exactly. Bitcoin, the network survives Bitcoin, the currency. The invention can't possibly go away. Yeah, I'm particularly fascinated by some of the offline means of transacting. I mean, one project that I've heard of that is super interesting to me is transmission of Bitcoin transactions over ham radio. Try and stop that. That would be interesting. Yeah, you can do shortwave bursts of transactions. So 350 bytes, you can transmit that transaction in about eight seconds of a shortwave radio from the middle of a forest. Yeah, good like stopping that. You can't detect the transmission. You can't detect who's receiving. And the person receiving could be 300 miles away. That's going to have a really important impact because that means you could do transactions in the middle of guerrilla warfare. And that's what everyone will be thinking about in the middle of guerrilla warfare. How do I send my name? More or more arms. Well, if you're sending money in order to get more arms delivered, you know, Syrian rubble, that's exactly what you're thinking about. So because right now, they're only alternative as suitcase as full of cash hidden in container ships. The next question is small cheap ATMs and Piper Bitcoin wallet machines should be talked about more. What do you guys, Derek, what do you think about small Bitcoin ATMs? I like them. I'm surprised people aren't using them more often. I've got time over my head or I'd be the brave guy to say, yeah, let's put this out here. Let's start using these things with everybody. I mean, I know that there are some in New York, there are some people who are a part of Bitcoin filled off you have bought. Where are they? Why can't I go to one? Well said, Derek. Next question, coder trader checking in. What do you all think about the weak looking price action in Bitcoin? It looks like a major pullback is around the corner. Also, have you considered the option that the technology of Bitcoin could be successful, but the price could fall? Dovi Barker, what do you think about the price? If this person's able to predict the price of Bitcoin, then they should be able to make a fortune on it. And they should get it right on that. You know, if Bitcoin drops down to a penny, it still works. So that's OK with me. I'm not too worried about it. I like the idea that I have sort of secured some value in the process of adopting it. But as long as it has a price, and I think it always will have a price, it can operate as a currency. I do think there is some worry right now with the government selling $25 million in Bitcoin that may cause a temporary retreat in the price. And the way that those Bitcoins are put back into the market could affect the price, although it seems very unlikely that the government would sell them on an exchange, causing a massive price dump. It looks more like a deal with the Winklevi or a deal with the second market ETF, where the large amount of funds are exchanged off the books, not affecting anything, seems to be the most likely option for the government money. But the uncertainty will probably cause a price decline. Oh my God, that's great sucks. Oh my God, let's get a price decline. I would love to get a price decline. Why are we upset about this? Are we crazy? What this means is that suddenly $25 million of new supply will jump into the market. Our fundamentals haven't changed. And that means that that price is a massive discount for us to buy Bitcoin. Who is complaining about this? I would love to see Bitcoin at 200 temporarily with no change in the fundamentals, significantly undervalued and available for me to buy. I'll be on the other side of that transaction. Hey FBI, if you can hear this, sell me your $25 million Bitcoin. I'll put the Bitcoin back in the market. I want the federal government to be illiquid in Bitcoin. Everyone else Bitcoin is illiquid. If they sell them, they will be illiquid. It doesn't work. If they sell them, they will be illiquid. They'll give up their precious Bitcoin and replace them for crappy dollars. I mean, what better way to divest the government of Bitcoin first? They've already made a fourfold return from $6 million to $24 million. You think that would be enough for them? Just give them to the federal reserve. Put them in a bank. Hold them. No, sell them. Drop the price. Give us a discount. Let us buy them back and give you useless dollars in return. Are you kidding me? Yeah, and I can say you like getting it. One thing I think the person who asked the question is most concerned about is how much the price can move when new pools of liquidity enter the market. And that's certainly a concern because the amount of transactions that have happened on an exchange move the price so drastically, whereas the amount of transactions that have an off exchange are really what I'm more interested in, what most of us true believers are probably more interested in. And that's where I see the potential for, that's where we see the value of Bitcoin walking the walk, so to speak. And that's what's interesting to me. And Andreas, you say this all the time, throw the price out of your mind and don't pay attention to it. The more interesting metric is user adoption. And I fully am wedded to that position. I'm in favor of ignoring what the government does with their Bitcoin. I don't care. I don't want it to enter into my thinking. I mean, if the price drops for whatever reason it drops, that I will respond to. But I mean, I would rather ignore them, even at this point. The next question, don't you think that hydroponic shops and their customers would love Bitcoin, especially in countries with oppressive prohibition? Dovey Barker, what do you think about that? Hydroponic shops, meaning shops that sell equipment to grow marijuana, is that what we're talking about? That's what we're talking about, yes. Oh, use the app worse. Why wouldn't they? Because they aren't smart enough to protect themselves and use it wisely, that's why. They're going to entrap themselves. That's a stereotype. You're just encouraging stereotypes that cheat and chong run hydroponic stores. Oh, yeah. I have a big corporations that can understand Bitcoin. No, not the companies that are going to not understand the currency. I'm saying that it could be the users who are in and of buying these things are using their cell phones to purchase the equipment. And the NSA or whatever equivalent there says, OK, I see John Smith. You've just purchased this equipment. Now we're going to raid your house. And not if they use Bitcoin and had an analyzing service. Also, we're talking about a brave new world where essentially the great fear of the online silk road becomes the real life silk road. And people start exchanging plants for Bitcoin, for lights that grow plants. And there's no one else involved in their economy. It's a completely closed loop. I think it would be great. I made a prediction last week that dispensaries would be accepting Bitcoin. I'd love to see hydroponic shops accepting it. And the huge irony in this whole legalization thing is that a lot of people are pushing for legalization. And a lot of that's going to be taxed, which is going to be money that's funneled back to the drug war. So Bitcoin is a great way to escape that. Just on the subject of legalization, this came up with a friend of mine recently. He discovered that because he pursued whatever paperwork he needed in California to purchase and use marijuana legally, he can no longer own a firearm. And so these are the sort of the side effects, the earmarks that are in the bills whenever the state tries to legalize anything. So I just wanted to throw that out as a warning to people who've been clamoring for legalization all of this time, that they are always going to find a way to screw you. Wait, hang on. Are you trying to tell me that purchasing lights and watering systems to grow a plant that's a weed and grows by the side of the road is still a legal where are we insane? What the hell is wrong with this world? And also remember that the cousin of the plant, hemp, is made illegal because it looks too much like marijuana. And it confuses federal agents who can't tell a field of hemp from a field of pot. This is what we can't grow in industrial hemp. Japanese maple, when I was in high school, we used to pick leaves off of Japanese maples because they look just like marijuana plants and our school prohibited that. Yeah, one other thing I get highly... One of the comments I made was that maple syrup. So yeah, that was probably the same plant. It's not just people who are interested in growing marijuana or growing hemp or growing any plant hydroponically that are getting harassed because their transactions are being monitored. It's people who want to start up aquaponics systems, which are self-sustaining permaculture setups, that are really a fantastic innovation and agriculture that almost anyone can do locally. There's a little startup cost for that. And most metro areas have a business that is setting this up for their local economy, and starting a cooperative to get this going. And I'm hearing all the time, I know it's happened to a couple of the businesses like that here in Milwaukee, where they make their purchases for their business. They're out in the open operating lawfully, and they still get visits and harassment, if you will, just because they want to set up a kind of permaculture system, having nothing to do with any narcotics, illegal drugs, or any illegal activity. So it's not just them. And this is all because everything is being so heavily monitored with this NSA stuff in the news, and the speech Obama gave today, and all the revelations that have been coming out since the spring, and Edward Snowden and Glenn Greenwald, and their work. This is, again, a great example of a use case for Bitcoin that we're seeing all the time. Banks won't allow these dispensaries in Colorado that are operating lawfully to hold their deposits. They won't accept them as depositors, and they don't have the headlines are, they don't have anywhere else to put their money. And I'm just like, face palm, big time, you know. There's an obvious answer. Yeah, I'd add onto the aquaponics thing. I mean, they even ban certain types of fish. You know, like you can't use certain types of tilapia in Florida here for your aquaponics system. Another way, if you could like find someone on, oh, I don't know, Craigslist, for example, selling these illegal tilapia or whatever, and pay them in Bitcoin away kind of around that. So go ahead, sorry. Oh, these same organizations, these same banks allow you to give donations to the KKK. They allow you to buy an AK47, and they certainly don't have any problem with holding the bank accounts of Philip J. Morris, or sorry, Arya, as they're now called. Moving on, the next question. Not sure if this has been discussed yet, but are any of you concerned with how close G hash got to 51% recently? Are there any ideas that would help us avoid this? I don't know who wants to be. No, the problem was resolved. And like Andreas said, it's a self-correcting system, and we have nothing to worry about there. All right, can we just clarify this? If somebody gets 51%, they can't take your money, they can't change the transactions, they can't unroll the transactions. All they can do is produce spending transactions in the next block, and so everybody notices and shuts them down. This is not a problem, and even if it was a problem, it's the most ridiculously unprofitable and unproductive use of enormous amounts of computing power. And if it is a matter of pool, then it will be deserted automatically with a market response. Can we please stop talking about the 51% attack? Finally. There are so many other more interesting, I guess, arguments for flaws in the protocol than the 51% attack that I've seen. The paper out of Cornell with the 25% scenario, slightly more interesting, slightly, you know, maybe more troubling than the 51% attack. But again, these are all theoretical arguments and what we're seeing in practice. But thank God for Bitcoin, because it gives us a way to actually see for one time a free market in operation, unencumbered, uninhibited by large actors imposing themselves on it. And so, again, the examples that are often wielded against the argument for a free market economy is we've never seen that succeed. Corruption always takes over. You know, there will be mobs and gangs, rule, whatever. The fact of the matter is, we get to see it with Bitcoin, it walks the walk, and it doesn't care. And it proves that this is possible. And anyone who doubts like, you know, the Paul Krogman's out there, is a fairly basic, and also when big events hit the news stream, it shows their folly. It exposes the hypocrisy or the folly of these trite arguments against an open system. Listen, we have real problems in the Bitcoin protocol. We need to have stronger fungibility in the transaction layer. We need to have strong anonymity within the protocol, because right now, very large organizations taking every transaction, and creating massive, taint trees, and doing relationship analysis, and then the cross-time vet, white P addresses, and everything else, and prior transactions, and any threat of identity you have, for unravel the entire set of identities in the protocol. That's a real problem. And in this country, it will result in IRS audits, and in other countries, it will result in a bullet in your head. So we need to fix that before this protocol goes mainstream, and we can't do any upgrades anymore, because it's too difficult to operate. That's a real problem, not the 51%. Well, put. Next question. Do you think that the court ruling, I think this is about net neutrality, will spur things like fiber optic networks, like Google Fiber? I won't spur anything. It will completely slow down innovation and growth on the internet, because now, in order to innovate and grow, you have to ask permission from the cable providers, and they're not going to give you access to the websites that you want, so they get to slow them down, and prioritize their own traffic. Wait a minute. Maybe I misunderstand what net neutrality and the whole bill had on Dres, but it is the barrier to entry, impossibly high for new cable providers. Is it not a possibility that new entrants can enter the market? Yeah, the barrier to entry has always been high in the physical deployments of networks, because you need to dig the street, and digging the street requires permits from local communities, a fragmented and overlapping jurisdictions, is very difficult to do it on any large scale. It took over 15 years to do, and all of the cable companies we see today are essentially agglomerations, of thousands of small providers that got gradually bought up into these giant cartels, and now they will tremendous power. They are gaping with the power. I understand that, but it's not impossibly high. There are still ways that new entrants could enter the market, correct? I mean, you could... The things that haven't been thought of yet, for example, having drones that provide Wi-Fi. Something like that. Something new. Yes, but essentially the internet has, we know it's the very easy access directly to a worldwide network with a global audience. That is now severely curtailed, and I think that that's going to slow things down dramatically for everyone. I want to agree with that. I want to agree with that. Go ahead, Thomas. I think part of the question we're saying is that it could lead to a development of Verizon fiber, where you can get Verizon programs faster, and you can get Verizon websites, and all the things on the Verizon network. Who's telling you that? Verizon, but you're crooks. Have a conscience. Cut off your relationship with that abusive company. Well, and remember that Verizon is going to get paid bribes by the content providers to make their content go faster. So they have relationship with the NFL. So obviously NFL games should stream faster than, say, the Bitcoin group. Whereas the other internet would say NFL streams and Bitcoin group streams can be the same speed. No one has to bribe. So you can see why they prefer the bribe system. Derek, you're comment about the barrier of entry for new ISPs, you know, ones that might have some innovative ideas in distributing internet access is, you know, it's something I encountered with one of the first entrepreneurs. We can free. One of the, you know, one of my first entrepreneurial ventures, it's something that's built, but it's something that probably won't work in the US. It's like a Wi-Fi sharing social network that pays back the shareers. And it's, you know, a reputation based like Tinder system where, you know, you have preferred, you build up your reputation so that you can be trusted to share someone's private network. This directly competes with all of the major ISPs, all, you know, there's like five of them in the nation or something. And it's, you know, there's very, very difficult legal work around to try and get this idea off the ground in the United States. It's certainly something that's very applicable to developing nations that suffer for internet access, would certainly be applicable there. But it's definitely, there's definitely a high barrier to entry. You know, that isn't because of resources, necessarily, it's because of legal red tape. All right, to Derek's point, I think, you know, we're reaching a point where perhaps the internet has finally reached the maximum level of freedom that it could reach. And now it's a long, slow slide down. And what we have to do is spend the next several years disrupting the internet just like the previous hierarchical systems by making more open and decentralized solutions like Open Garden. And, you know, maybe it's time to start disrupting the internet. All systems that provide equality at first, eventually are captured and corrupted from the top. And then they need to be disrupted from the bottom up again. And perhaps the internet, you know, as much as it equalizes access to information, has now reached the highest level of liberty that it will ever reach. And from here on, it's a long, slow slide, and we need to disrupt the hell out of it. And guess what? We're going to fund that disruption with Bitcoin. This is an incredibly depressing idea, Andreas, that we've reached peak internet freedom, and that we're now in the decline of internet freedom. Well, the combination of completely ubiquitous NSA surveillance on an open protocol together with the loss of net neutrality, you know, I think we'll look back and look at our current government. For example, Obama's legacy will be the destruction of internet liberty. And we have reached peak internet freedom most likely. We might still have a chance, and there may be a backlash to this big enough. But, you know, people don't really understand network neutrality. They don't understand how the internet delivers this incredible innovation and all the benefits it delivers. And they're willing to be, you know, to be bamboozled into watching faster NFL games. I'm not that optimistic about the future of the internet, because it's been a struggle from day one, and it's been a constant war. And sometimes we win, and sometimes we lose, and this last year has not been good. Derek J. Yeah, it's always a warfare ideas, and I think it's important that we take personal responsibility for promoting as many good ideas about freedom as possible. Well, I think, Andreas, if there's any hope, like George Orwell said, it lies with the polls, I think it lies with the programmers. Because we knew how to build this internet right the first time, right? Richard Stallman was yelling in our ear to use open source. Everyone who was anyone said use encryption, but everyone else said it's too difficult for the users. We need to do it quickly. We need to do it faster. And then all of the faster solutions seem to win in the economic spirit, just because they were faster, not because they were better than Linux, or better what Linux could provide. They were just ahead of Linux. I think we could see a whole new internet built by programmers with end-to-end encryption that starts and begins with anonymity that could rise up in the place of this old internet. But we won't be able to get really fast NFL games. Oh dear. But we will be able to get NFL games with Bitcoin. Oh yeah. And that's the other neat part about how we're going to build this internet too, is that now we can attach money to everything with Bitcoin. Whereas before people didn't really get paid directly for TCP-IP or for adding to an open source project. Now there's an opportunity for bounties or for donations or for some other Bitcoin related thing. So we've got a lot more options. It's not so bleak. The Obama speech today was pretty rough. I haven't watched it yet, but I watched that after coverage. It was pretty rough. They said that he tried to humanize the NSA. Because we should have a warmer relationship with the people who are tracking everything, everything everything we ever do. So I have a very warm relationship with them. I have a more intimate relationship with them than anybody else in my life. Yeah. Because they watch all of my other internet relationships and full-color HD video every time I have them. Well, and I've always had a problem with backups. No matter how many backups you do, you always lose something. Categorizing your own data can be so difficult at times. I'm glad that the NSA has a second backup for me. And I look forward to getting access to it. I've lost some things. I want the back. They should really rename it to the National Storage Agency, which will give you a warm and fuzzy feeling as a big backup company. Well, we just need access to it. They just need a Facebook front end for all of our data. And make sure that people can't search for other people. We have to restrict access to that. Will we see any wrongfully convicted criminals exonerated from some NSA backup material that can serve to bolster their case? There have already been more than a dozen cases of defense attorneys doing subpoenas to find in cases of parallel construction where such data was used and to subpoena information. Some of those cases are currently working their way out through the second circuit to handle so the ninth circuit of appeals. So, yeah, as funny as it sounds, actually, that may be a possibility. It would certainly mess up their game completely. Moving on to predictions. Honorable mention, last time on the show, Megan predicted that a marijuana dispensary would accept Bitcoin. I'm told that that's now true in Colorado. Excellent prediction, Megan. We'll see if you can do as good this week. And now, predictions. Are you ready, Derek J? Prediction. The Super Bowl will have a Bitcoin related ad. Dave Barker. We're going to see a trend of undercover FBI agents attending Bitcoin meetups in an attempt to sell illicit substances. Megan Lourdes. Okay, so I read this interesting article on Forbes today about the International Monetary Fund. Let's say the headline is the International Monetary Fund lays the groundwork for global wealth confiscation. So basically, they're saying if we can just take a large amount of money from the wealthiest people in the world and then redistribute it, that just wants, if we can convince people that we're just going to do it once, that maybe people will sign on to it. I predict that not only is Bitcoin already going to be better at helping people who do actually need it, but it's going to really emerge as a source for dealing with the poverty problems that we see all around the world. And I think we're going to be able to kind of push back against the IMF with that. Will Pangman. The aftermath of Gavin's visit with the CFR will be a surprisingly positive press release from the CFR. Andres Antonopoulos. Well, I'm hoping to see more mainstream wallets implementing coin-join and atomization technologies by default, always on and impossible to turn off for every transaction. And I expect we're going to see the first wallets that implement that in Q1 of this here. Major League Baseball loves new technology. They already have their tickets available on Passbook, Apple's Ticketless Ticket System. Major League Baseball also loves to act as a group. There's plenty of time before opening day and still time to make a splash. Major League Baseball will accept Bitcoin following the incredible success of the Sacramento Kings. 2014 will be the year of Bitcoin. Don't you forget it. We're out of time. Until next time. Bye-bye!