American original for over the last 10 seconds the sharpest Satoshi's the best bitcoins the hardest cryptocurrency talk Today we have Derek Freeman from Bitcoin Philadelphia Megan lords from Bitcoin not bombs will penguin from Bitcoin Milwaukee and Anthony de Oreo from the Bitcoin Alliance of Canada This episode was sponsored by let's talk Bitcoin let's talk Bitcoin check out their exciting new podcast contest and vote for your favorite find out more at let's talk Bitcoin Moving on issue one Gas station accepts Bitcoin a gas station in Greeley Colorado is now accepting bitcoins as I've said dozens of times on mad bitcoins Gas stations and bitcoins go together like peanut butter and jelly no chargebacks less fees and you can get your money faster Bitcoin is just better money How much longer before a major chain like BP or Chevron adopts Bitcoin? I ask you Derek J I think that's still more than a year off honestly 2014 will be the year of small retailers accepting Bitcoin and we're gonna see a lot of stories like this one in Greeley Colorado where independent business owners say hey, I can do that and I can pick up some some easy Business from the local economy. I can pick up some Bitcoin this way So small retailers who are agile enough to be able to make these types of changes will be accepting it in 2014 But I don't see major places like Chevron or BP accepting it until it's more mainstream maybe in 2015 Megan Lord I was gonna say the same thing actually. I think we're gonna see smaller Gas stations accepting it first and we're still kind of a far way off from someone like bitp BP sorry or Chevron accepting Bitcoin. I mean unless Unless they decide that it's going to be extremely profitable for them to do it I just see you know smaller retailers accepting it first Will penguin Yeah, I don't know about any of the players, but I've been in conversation with someone who franchises three different BP locations and we're going to implement Bitcoin in all three of his gas stations here in Wisconsin They're they're kind of spread all out all all over the state. So There's three of them and and two of them are in the Fox Valley area, which is like Appleton, Ashkash And if you're familiar with the Midwest a little bit Maybe the third largest metro area in the state and then one in Waka Shah, which is a suburb of Milwaukee. So I know the members of the meetup at milk Bitcoin Milwaukee are really excited to be able to buy gas directly in Bitcoin and And instead of going through the third party Systems like you know the places that that offer gas cards For Bitcoin and things like that that take a while to be mailed to you and stuff But yeah, he's excited. He's been a Bitcoin user and Saver investor if you will and he wants to implement it for his his car washes and gas stations But yeah, I think the reason the main reason I hooked him or you know in our discussions It worked is because he's having a harder and harder time Buying Bitcoins, you know, he's an Apple user and so the Coinbase app went dead for him And that was one of his easy ways and he doesn't prefer Coinbase and he goes through the trouble with local Bitcoin sometimes usually with me, but Yeah, he uh he wants to earn them I think this is why a lot of small retailers will gravitate to Accepting Bitcoin as payments and defy the the often used rebuttal of you know the viability of Bitcoin as a currency because no there's not enough places to accept it Merchants won't want to accept it because of the currency risk and all that Well, I think they're going to really want to accept it because it's much easier to earn Bitcoins than it is to buy them on an exchange In a lot of these people's opinions in my opinion. So um, it's going to be exciting year in 2014 the big players You know Derek maybe 2015's a little too early of an estimate. It might be another four years. I think or more Anthony don't worry. Yeah, I think the franchises even for larger companies the franchise owners perhaps might start accepting Like we've seen with subway really we've seen some other places where on mass or on the whole as a company I don't think that they're going to make that statement and have everybody doing it But I do think we're going to see franchises whether it be from up here in Canada. We've got like shell and pepper Canada I guess some Different things appear and I do see franchise owners who do wanted it before we're thinking our involved with Bitcoin can do that on their own But I do think it's going to be Couple years out at least where we're actually going to see on a whole an entire company of those magnitude to start accepting Bitcoin Will that's really exciting news that you've got some gas stations that are going to accept Bitcoin I've thought that gas stations are a really great match for Bitcoin because gas stations are one of the first places where I learned about The fees that were being charged to these companies when I use a credit card Until I went to a gas station and they started charging me fees. I didn't even understand that they were getting charged by a third party Every time people pay with this money that's supposedly easier the credit cards Exit question what category of retailer would you like to see except Bitcoin? Is there anything better than gas stations? Derek J Yeah, absolutely anywhere where cash is the norm for a business is Bitcoin is going to be a better solution for them And another one is anything that requires an ID so anytime Business that needs some sort of identification like a gym membership or maybe some club having a particular Being able to accept Bitcoin in those places would be ideal the first couple of places that I think we'd see in 2014 Will be laundromats People using Bitcoin for concerts using ticketing services You could use them for movies convenience stores would be huge because you don't have to bother with making change You can just take your phone out of your wallet scan and go And coffee shops club you know places like clubs it could even offer VIP discounts for paying in Bitcoin You can have transferable tickets. These are all these are all going to be developed over the next coming years And it's going to be exciting to see but concerts, laundromats and convenience stores. I think are the big big ones Megan I think the gas stations are great, but I'd like to see an alliance with the alternative energy businesses I think there's a lot of interesting technology coming out in that sector and I'd like to see Bitcoin become a part of that I think there's a really strong I think there could be a very strong alliance there and also I think where you'll probably see them is in Kind of the music festival scene among some of the vendors because they tend to be kind of uh, you know into more alternative means of payment anyway So I think it's something that they could add, you know, they're mostly a cash business and like Derek would you know Was saying with these smaller cash only businesses. I think you're really going to see it take off there Will payment Yeah, um, I like what Megamus saying about alternative energy businesses, you know I'd like to see utilities companies of any kind You know alternative or conventional if you will Accepting Bitcoin that that would be my my comment But I really liked the concept of ticketing with using Bitcoin This is a really cool way for a fundraiser to pre-sell tickets that can also then function as a donation simultaneously You know just it's also a great way to introduce people to to Bitcoin, you know They can purchase a paper wallet that effectively is a ticket with fiat and then use that ticket And the surplus hopefully on that ticket to purchase goods like at the music festival vendors and things like that So that's a really exciting. I'm going to use that for a fundraiser. We're going to throw here in Milwaukee That one of the new Bitcoin accepting businesses That's that's kind of the concept and yeah the ticketing things I think A lot of the hospitality or entertainment style Businesses out there or business ventures music festivals You know even nightclubs and and just movie theaters or special events at theaters, you know speakers and things like that You're going to be able to draw an especially Interesting buzz by implementing Bitcoin ticketing feature Anthony de Oreo A lot of them have already been listed, but I think the things That people are using more frequently convenience stores coffee shops where we can see big like logos in the middle of this A lot of those little business and gas stations as well Where it's just you know, I just want to start seeing with the Bitcoin logo flooded everywhere And then people start using it. People start recognizing it. I just want to get the massive option up I think smaller little locations are great Um, and just once they have high visibility in the city We want to have use this for conference that we're putting on in April and Toronto here We want to have people doing ticketing. We want to be able to see vendors and we're doing it purely in big points We're not paying anything out to anybody that's not going to be offering big point in our in our event For the services that we're going to provide there so we'd like to see more venues being able to accept Bitcoin um bars Everyone you want to see it everywhere And and speaking of ticketing I they did say they were going to try to accept Bitcoin for Burning Man So that would be a big deal if Burning Man did accept Bitcoin Let's see moving on to the next issue Issue two Fin Sen miners are not money transmitters a new ruling by the financial crimes enforcement network says that Bitcoin miners do not have to register as money transmitters More and more Bitcoin is entering the main street. Does this clear the way for large scale home mining adoption? Is it time to start building Bitcoin miners into refrigerators yet? I ask you Megan lords Oh, well, I think this is definitely a positive thing, but um, I still really have this uh Sense that Bitcoin's going to be regulated and if you do start having larger scale mining operations They'll be regulated by different government agencies that Fin Sen so uh it it'll be interesting to see where it goes. It's something that um I guess I don't have a super strong opinion on that right now Just that I'd I'm still apprehensive of Where the regulations are going to go with Bitcoin Will payment Um, yeah, why can't we put miners and refrigerators now? I don't see why not um, I don't see Mining being something that hobbyists or you know, just the average joke and doing their home Maybe for a couple of years It's certainly grown into an industry of its own and The you know, it's very cost prohibitive to get involved in profitable mining these days Um, which is fine. Uh, I think you know as time goes on and you know, the The ubiquity of mining will increase and the difficulty will rise and there will be some exit from some of those larger players Allowing some you know, the difficulty will go back down and allowing some uh, you know, just uh General appliances or or personal computers or you know, these kinds of things to start mining again smaller rigs being More viable and stuff That'll be several years down the road Um, but uh, yeah, this is a great ruling. This is very favorable for Bitcoin I often think a lot of the bad news that most people perceive as bad is usually Dect you know kind of a plus anyway for Bitcoin, but this is a plus that's definitely a plus and um, you know This I could see a ruling again, you know a ruling in in in opposition to this ruling being something that maybe squelches uh, Bitcoin adoption or you know, it just causes a hiccup that that miners then have to find a workaround to be able to continue to do what they really want to do Um, with through some loopholes or whatever So it's nice that they don't have to go through those hurdles and they can just keep their their growth trajectory on track If they have one instead of having to you know stop and double back and figure out some workarounds So yeah, it's a positive and I'm I'm really interested to see how mining hardware is implemented in just about Anything in our daily life, you know, there's lots of talk of that at conferences and it'll be really exciting to start to see that emerge You know, maybe a year from now or so um The first mover there will be pretty interesting too, so Anthony do Oreo Well, I haven't really been following too much of the regulations. I might I thought it was I don't know if it was previously announced that you couldn't that miners did have to register and was unclear in the states I know up in here. We have no issues with that. We consider Bitcoin not money. So we've had a lot of You know, it's in Canada has been excellent. It's actually come to the forefront and people are seeing Canada as a as a Bitcoin friendly place That we're taking you know, I'll wait back and see more more of a pro-chan It's really been spurting mining pools are coming to Canada now Uh, we have some really good electrical rates and in Quebec that are really enticing big large mining pools to Just set up themselves there Um, and Canada has been been very favorable for mining. I think this could be excellent for the states But I don't know if it's really going to change too much. I think people are we're still continuing their mining Um, it could open the door to to larger projects. I'm really not sure Dare jay Yeah, I can't believe what Will's talking about that's all nonsense The this news is totally meaningless the what was the government going to say? That all Miners have to register as money transmitters they would have no Armed for enforcement if that were their declaration everyone just laugh and know that they have no understanding of what Bitcoin even is or or how mining works and they would have a real problem on their hands by instantly converting a bunch of knowledgeable powerful Geeks into felons or or criminals and then They would have that problem on their hands all these people saying oh my gosh the violence inherent in the system I've suddenly woken up to all of your evil government Well, that would be a problem for them. So no, this is a meaningless declaration. All it says is that They understand that anyone can be a miner and they have no way to stop it That's kind of good news, but it's it's not like miners were waiting for the government to tell them They're allowed to or not Bitcoin Philadelphia has gotten some requests from businesses who are looking to start mining on a large But that just might be because the timing is right. This might not be relevant to the the announcement That said the person who discovers how to put miners in small appliances wins all the cake because that that is a great idea And I can't wait to see that happen, but it probably won't be the mainstream source of mining Exit question in 2014 Bitcoin mining will be completely taken over by large scale Corporations yes or no Megan lord I don't think so just yet. I think you're still gonna mostly see individuals. I mean that filter a while Will Pagman It kind of already is that way sort of isn't it? I mean, I kind of like what what Anthony said about certain jurisdictions having you know cheaper energy costs or things like that the price of Bitcoin too, you know if If that's in a proper proportion compared with the difficulty that the average person could be somewhat profitable Then you'll see more individuals entering that so You know there's a lot of factors here the difficulty the the price of Bitcoin You know that goes up difficulties stays the same or you know doesn't increase too much and then The the hardware can be more accessible. That's a big problem I think that's kind of part of the part of the plan for some of these larger groups who are Consolidating mining operations and stuff like that But yeah, it'll open up. It's it's it's a it's a matter of these factors kind of all finding their little equilibrium That makes it friendly for an individual right now. I don't think that's the case. It's it's profitable only for the big boys Anthony to Oreo. Yeah, I think this is gonna you're we're gonna see big Corporations come out of nowhere and I think they're gonna dwarf what's actually been out there anything that we've got right now I think there's a lot of secret projects going on with Advanced chip companies right now that are working with both corporations and banks And I see this is gonna be the year where the banks are gonna start the and you're gonna start seeing mining for just coming up from banks That are gonna be 50 hundred times larger than what we've ever seen before Derek J Yeah, Bitcoin energy will be a lot like energy production large companies produce most of the energy we use But some people use solar panels at home to produce some of the energy Large-scale corporations will produce most of Bitcoin we use but some will be mined by small scale users The Bitcoin group is sponsored by alpha-line technologies alpha-line technologies They don't make the altcoins. They make the altcoins of the future learn how to make your own altcoin at alpha-line technologies dot com issue three India Bitcoin the Royal Bank of India announced this week that it has no plans to regulate Bitcoin However actions by India's enforcement division shut down several Bitcoin exchanges and seemed to be interviewing the companies attempting to understand Bitcoin As opposed to China's just say no policy India seem to be seeking first to understand will India adopt Bitcoin? I ask you will payment India will adopt Bitcoin not you know talking to some some guys who are over there That I've interfaced with through the Bitcoin Foundation's Education Committee for example It has a lot of attention not as much traction as maybe China or Russia even but it's happening the You know, I guess I want a I guess I want I'm interested to hear what Derek would say But you know my personal feeling on on this whole Royal Bank of India not going to do anything and then their enforcement arm Goes and shuts people down This is just a sign of the soft tyranny that we're used to seeing You know, it might be a little harder than soft tyranny, but uh, yeah, it's uh, it's It's kind of this double-speak game that we always see with these bureaucrats where you know out of one corner of their mouth They're telling you a message that will pacify you and lower your defenses While on the other hand out of the other side of their mouth. They're going to come and smack you and so These the Bitcoin won't be deterred by these things, but you know, it's upsetting. I don't like to see See things like this happen to good businessmen like btc China and Bobby Lee or you know Some of the Bitcoin ventures in India being kind of suppressed So it's we'll see more of that in the USA for sure It's kind of abrasive self-situation and it's unfortunate There there are some encouraging signs, you know, there's a congressman who attended the New York City Meetups new your Zeeve party who apparently wants to get this sponsor legislation to leave Bitcoin alone Why you need a bill to do that? I'm not sure, but uh, it's you know Again, it's somewhat encouraging, you know, I like to keep a positive outlook on these things and and You know, nod my head up and down and keep pressing on with some of my projects and encouraging and prosper Attizing others to do the same with theirs Anthony to Oreo I have no idea what any is going to do. It's going to be up to I mean, I think these will be slowed down for some time with their ruling But I really have no clues going to be up to the regulators and how fast that they're going to you know If they're going to let the exchanges keep going I think it's unclear right now and I don't think I can provide a You know an estimation of this if it's going to get a document in India it will be but who knows when Derek J Yeah, India India will accept Bitcoin as soon and no sooner than a large Bitcoin company pays off the politicians Because the people will be able to accept it whenever they're ready, but the politicians only talk one language That's money Megan lords As much as I would like to see India adopt Bitcoin. I'm not so sure that it will happen um You know like you said they're kind of in the Information gathering uh stages right now. They're still trying to understand that and I think that's a good thing And I think it may take them maybe a little bit longer than China or maybe some other countries to really crack down on it One thing I came across that was kind of interesting is uh the Bank of India Basically said dogecoin is a currency Which that's how it's weird Of all the you know other all points that are out there and then you know the bitcoins there too uh that they big dogecoin So that's kind of interesting. I mean maybe they're kind of uh Friendly to crypto to the idea of cryptocurrency in a way, but uh, I think once they realize the threat it poses They might change their mind on that I do agree that it seems like the royal bank of India has no real ability to regulate Bitcoin if they Wanted to regulate Bitcoin so it's a bit of a non-announcement from the RBI as they keep calling it in every article And I keep thinking what does India have to do with runs bad it in Exit question India Russia or China which country will have the biggest Bitcoin fever in 2014 will penguin Um, I'm gonna go off the it's China's kind of the easy answer there, but I really think it'll be Argentina Anthony de Oreo I'm gonna roll the dice, but I'm also gonna stick with the three options. So I'm gonna say uh Russia Derek J China Megan lords The answer is India issue four Oh, it didn't work Issue four bitcoin from both thyself Bitcoin is not a company Bitcoin is not having an IPO if you want to spread the word about bitcoin You're gonna have to do it yourself This week an impressive project by a rise bitcoin put up more than 40 billboards in San Francisco Advertising the fledgling cryptocurrency Meanwhile in Canada Bitcoin decentralized Toronto as a shared work area complete with a bitcoin ATM Which would you rather have in your city a bitcoin billboard or a bitcoin ATM? I ask you Anthony de Oreo Well, I'll stick with with with the billboard that I have outside of bitcoin decentral Which is a nice big sign which acts like a billboard for the ATM that we have inside. So I'm gonna go with that Derek J in ATM man come on. I want to use this stuff. I'm not interested in some billboard That that might be useful and helpful in spreading the word, but um a bit coin ATM is Part of using the technology. And so that's that's more interesting to me Megan lords ATM hands down Definitely I would much rather have access to bitcoin ATM and I you know The word gets out about bitcoin from people going to businesses and just talking with their friends about it I mean for New Year's Eve I had a great you know a conversation with some of my friends I went over to New Orleans and got to talk with them and they're telling people So I think work is already spreading and like Derek said I want to be able to use bitcoin Will penguin Definitely ATM hands down Working tooth and nail with the members of both bitcoin milwaki to get one here and Well, hopefully that'll be an announcement we can make sometime in 2014 But about the billboard thing. I mean I really hate to criticize A bitcoin promotional effort at all, but I kind of think the money for that could have been better spent I mean three four months ago. I would Everywhere I go ask people if they heard about bitcoin if I'm checking out at any place for you know spending money anywhere I'm asking the clerk All the time just to I'm always interested in in how far this is spread and three months ago four months ago Maybe three out of five people didn't know what bitcoin was I seriously have had I don't know the last 25 people I've asked this question to say yes And then carry a conversation on with them People know what this is. I don't think we need billboards anymore that money could have been much better spent They could have bought how many ATMs with does with the money spent on those billboards I don't know 40 billboards in one city seems like oversaturation in a place where bitcoin awareness is You know almost ubiquitous around Silicon Valley. So Yeah, I don't want to be too critical of that effort because I I like to see outreach like that but Oh Man, I wish they would have spent some Consulted some people more or I don't know just there's a better way to spend all that money than 40 billboards in one dang city Also the the message on the billboard could be a little better It has a large QR code. It has the website arise bitcoin, which is kind of an inside joke for bit coiners Not really great for everyone else. I mean even just a link to we use coins might have made more sense I don't know And then there was a similar project in Los Angeles where the bitcoins actually just say send bitcoin to this QR code And it seems as though the whole campaign is just attempting to raise money for bitcoin awareness As if they're just going to replicate the high mom send bitcoin sign from ESPN which raised $24,000 That idea has gotten into people's heads. I think if you put a QR code out somewhere They're going to send you $24,000 Anthony your thoughts? Well Sorry Megan Well, yeah, I mean he got the $24,000 after he said he would donate a huge chunk of it to Sean's outpost So I mean yeah, it's kind of I mean yeah some people maybe trying to replicate that but I Yeah Me what do I think that's it's stupid that I don't have much more to say about that I have something I want to say about that It's that's a one-time phenomenon done and gone Awesome awesome thing to get bitcoin out there. I mean you know sports nerds Really are clueless about bitcoin and tech trends unless it involves You know professional athletics or college athletics so to do that was really really cool The fact that he got $24,000. I thought he got the money before he decided to donate to Sean's outpost I could be wrong on that But that was an impressive sum in less than 24 hours to get you know, of course that broadcast is everywhere But you know, I've had friends who've suggested oh they're going to go to like you know the Creighton Marquette basketball game or the No name versus no name You know football game, you know the division three college championship or something and do the same thing And they didn't probably get a single thing because I didn't hear back from them on their progress So that the idea is over you know people Yeah, that train is gone Exit question what's the best promotional tool for bitcoin large scale corporate adoption or small scale word of mouth Anthony DeOriot. I don't know. I think they're both great I think if we can get some large Corporate people on board. I think that's an excellent thing and then the small scale word of mouth meetup groups Grassroot stuck with bitcoin. I think it's excellent as well So I don't think I want to put them in a one or the other save which one is better than the other Derek J definitely small scale word of mouth it is always the the real engine behind everything and That's what we've seen so far has been the small scale word of mouth. It's not like bitcoin Came into its own once WordPress accepted it and then we can just wash our hands and we're done It's it's going to be a long process of everywhere you go every time you spend paper dollars You have to ask the waitress ask wherever you are Hey, do you accept bitcoin? You'll probably get a note if it's their first time being asked but The 10th time they're gonna start to look into that and so small scale word of mouth is is absolutely the way to go Megan lords Well, I think they both play an important role in spreading the word about bitcoin I think in places where there is a lot of corporate influence or a lot of corporations in general I think it would be great to see wider scale adoption by corporations But in smaller rural areas where you have smaller locally owned stores then you know, I think the smaller scale Word of mouth is going to be better So yeah, they both play play a role and I don't know that I could rank one above the other Will penguin I'm inclined to agree with Derek will heartedly on this I mean, you know as involved in the meetup culture as I am Derek is Anthony is You know, we've seen the the incredible bountiful fruits that emerge from from that word amount activity and community outreach so You know, but there's no denying the effect that by do accepting bitcoin for one little subset of their business Did for popularizing bitcoin not only in china but around the world So there are times when some of these big players can make a splash and Maybe give some legitimacy to bitcoin um, you know for the mainstream public who's been doubting it for a while and been aware but doubting um But to be honest, I mean I can get any doubter to download a blockchain wallet and give them a dollars worth of bitcoin and that takes two minutes and I can do that dozen or two dozen times a day and every day and I have do a faster with coinapult coinapult all these solutions there's here's the thing there are infrastructure Problems there's lacking infrastructure and there's user interface clumsiness and just it's it's it's very new And it's difficult for the average person to use at this point still But it's not that difficult if you have a friendly hand to help you And so that's where word of mouth trumps anything else if you have someone who can walk you through it Take it down the path one time then Have you received some bitcoin have them send some bitcoin that one transaction will make it seem so easy If they touch it and then send it one time they'll have no problem doing that a second time And that's why word of mouth goes a long way it's not just talking about bitcoin though Given them a wallet given them a little piece of some sweetoshies and then helping them spend some sweetoshies Share it with the next person that you're gonna sign up with a wallet and this happens in massive meetups around the world I know that it happens with me on the street word of mouth Definitely by far even though there are some big splashes that some of these announcements can make from big big money big corporations Excellent moving on to predictions This is the part of the show where I ask you to predict the future Are you ready Derek J? No, I'm not ready. I didn't make it forward. I was so not ready for the predictions for okay Hold on let me see I hope it's something will ping me no Yeah, my prediction we're gonna see a big price drop here Between now and the beginning of February one big drop for a day or two and it's you know People can speculate on the causes for this But um from what I'm what I'm seeing and hearing there still isn't a lot of faith and I think the traders the traders influence the price a great deal that You know there's a hundred thousand bit coins moved Weaker two ago and it didn't affect the price one bit Because that was done off exchange right but if you do that on an exchange we're gonna see a wild day or two right so There is going to be some Action on these exchanges in the downward direction of before we see a bounce back and we're definitely gonna end the year on a high note five X or 10 X From where we are today Which of course I think we're all looking forward to But that's my prediction within 30 30 days from now. We're gonna see you know Another 20% to 40% drop in the price before it bounces back. I have one. I have one. I have one now The the There is not your turn In 2014 then there was in 2013 like 10 times more volatility Anthony de Oreo I think we're gonna see with you know what what's going on in China what's going on in India and the price is still staying really strong I just see it's going up. I see in the next 30 days we're back up to like the $1,200 mark. I see it going up Um, I'll agree with will maybe five times by the end of the year Megan lord smart analysts are Dicting that 2014 even more are predicting that bitcoin's price has no top and we may see $10,000 a coin by the end of the year Well, these figures may seem extremely bullish. They may turn out to be right Investing in bitcoin is investing in the payment network of the future It is much more than a currency 2014 is the year that the world will truly wake up to the new internet of money Bitcoin will reach $10,000 a coin by the end of this year We're out of time until next time bye bye