An interview with Bitrefill & Breez Wallet (TLC 2019)

## Summary of Bitrefill & Breez Wallet Interview (TLC 2019)

This interview with Bitrefill and Breez Wallet explores the current state and future potential of the Lightning Network, focusing on how these companies are working to make Bitcoin payments more accessible and user-friendly. The discussion highlights the diverse strategies being employed to onboard users and scale the Bitcoin ecosystem, acknowledging that a variety of approaches are necessary to reach mainstream adoption. Both companies are tackling challenges related to channel capacity, channel management, and the overall user experience, with the ultimate goal of enabling seamless, everyday Bitcoin transactions akin to using traditional payment methods. They emphasize the importance of experimentation and community collaboration in driving innovation within the Lightning Network space.

Main Topics Discussed:

• Lightning Network Adoption: Strategies for onboarding users and scaling the Lightning Network to reach millions of mainstream users, moving beyond the current niche audience.
• Bitrefill Services: Bitrefill's role in allowing users to spend Bitcoin on gift cards, phone top-ups, and travel, with plans to expand globally. They are developing APIs (Thor) to address Lightning Network channel capacity issues.
• Breez Wallet Functionality: Breez Wallet’s ambition to provide a user-friendly “payment service” experience, similar to Venmo, with features like automatic channel opening and the potential for recurring payments and subscriptions.
• Lightning Service Providers (LSPs): The emergence of LSPs, drawing parallels to Internet service providers, and the need for decentralization and freedom of choice in this emerging landscape.
• Channel Management & Liquidity: Practical considerations for managing Lightning channels, including inactivity timeouts, channel closure policies, and the desire for subscription-based models.
• Business Models & Monetization: Exploring sustainable business models for Bitcoin services, including premium channels, Lightning Network services, and the importance of revenue streams even with low fees.
• Funding Lightning Infrastructure: The challenges of funding Lightning Network infrastructure and the potential for exchanges to subsidize channel costs.
• Diverse Approaches to Bitcoin Adoption: Recognizing the validity of different onboarding strategies, such as premium models, Lightning onboarding, and friend referrals.

Key Quotes:

• Sergei Kotlar (Bitrefill CEO): "There's more people with a pre-page phone than with a toothbrush." (Highlighting the potential reach of Bitcoin)
• Roy Scheinfeld (Breez Wallet CEO): "We're building a payment service... So we're trying to build a payment service, which is non-custodial based on Lightning Network with the great user experience that, you know, appeal to the mainstream audience.” (Defining Breez Wallet's mission)
• "We’re not building our solution for these 500 guys, right? We want mainstream relation. We have to onboard millions and tens of millions of users." (Emphasizing the need for mass adoption)
• "You know, it's money is not the dirty word. We want to create the lighting economy. We want to monetize it." (Acknowledging the need for sustainable business models)

People Mentioned:

• Sergei Kotlar (CEO, Bitrefill)
• Roy Scheinfeld (CEO, Breez Wallet)
• Max (Podcast Host)
• Rusty Russell (Lightning protocol developer, related to recurring payments)
• Jack Dorsey (Referenced in relation to Lightning onboarding focus)
• Phoenix (Likely referring to the Phoenix team at Ascend)
• Martin Kicks
• Alex Boseros
• Jack Mallers

Bitcoin Price: No specific Bitcoin prices were mentioned during the interview. The conversation focused on Lightning Network fees and the importance of business models that can function regardless of fee fluctuations.